Post Surgery IGF-1 Results. Shocking.
- Thread starter CEDeoudes59
- Start date
cowardly lion
New member
Grunt76 said:
Hey Grunt,
I'm scheduled for a charite' artificial disc replacement at L-4-5
its a 3 piece cobalt chromium endplate with a polyethyline sliding core. I think I 've got 1 month before the procedure, about 3 weeks ago I recvd my first bottle of igf-1 lr3, still in fridge. Holding off for the recovery! I'm still totally stupid as to reconstiting and plan on ordering another bottle this week.
Dr says he wants me up and walking 24 hrs after procedure and said I can do the swim routine I talked about after maybe
3weeks. do you think I should start the cycle now before the surgery or would you wait until the procedure. What length cycle would you follow in that situation? Also I've been following lakemounts new studies on the eod or every 3day inject.whats your opinion? Thanks for any info you could share!
Also... how are you feeling? Are the wrists healing up okay?
Hope your not too uncomfortable. I know you a tough one though this will be a piece of cake for you. Hope things are well for you bro.
All the best!
CL
jomi822
Banned
cowardly lion said:
most people begin to feel the effects of igf after about a week. the effects noticed after a week are more or less from a bodybuilding standpoint but this timeframe should serve as a good template for when you should start your igf "recovery" cycle.
if i were you i would start 4 or 5 days before the operation. after about a month (for one reason or another) people start to notice a decline in the effects of igf. you want to be on igf as long as possible into your recovery but also want to be able to recieve its recuperative effects as soon as possible. Again, perhaps 4 or 5 days pre-op would be best.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
This latest IGF, stings so badly... It's like a 15second bee sting. Dear God it hurts.
Ubiquitous
Registered User
hmm.. have never had that.. AA can do that... but not as much at the dilution we normally use.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
I'm going to draw the IGF(w/AA) and then draw some BW.
i've never used the NaCl until now - maybe that is what is stinging
i've never used the NaCl until now - maybe that is what is stinging
Grunt76
Well-known member
cowardly lion said:
Ouch that seems like quite a procedure man. If I were you I'd begin treatment as soon after the procedure as possible. IGF goes to work right away, so preloading isn't necessary, plus its hypoglycemic properties might cause some raised eyebrows during surgery as your blood sugar keeps dropping... If they do keep an eye on it... I would go for the good old 25 days at 40mcg ED starting ASAP after surgery.
Just wondering ... Why that procedure in the first place? If it were I in your situation, I would have tried just the IGF-1 injected close to the bad disc with some stretching and such, before signing up for such a major procedure. Of course you - and your doc - know your situation infinitely better than I do, for all I know you have already tried this...
Healing OK I guess. Shoulder and arms pretty damn sore from moving though. I'm in more pain now than when they just took off my casts. Less mobility also.
Of course, packing up, then unpacking and assembling furniture and all that isn't exactly what the doctor recommended. On top of that, because of the move, I held off on ordering IGF-1, not knowing which address to give.Wishing you the very best with your surgery bro.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
motiv8er said:
Oh God yes. IGF&AA + BW (drawn separately) is the way to go.
IGF&AA + NaCl = Bee Sting.
No more welts. I still have one from 4 days ago.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
July 2 update.
[My injured bunny] started a new IGF about 5 days ago. While the first IGF run was good. This is perhaps even better.
Two weeks after surgery I could bend my knee apx. 55degrees (with terrible pain). At the end of first IGF run it was about 65-75degrees. The IGF was discontinued for about 2 weeks and resumed. I seem to be gaining 2.5degree on my knee a day. This is small amount but it ridiculous amount given the nature of the injury.
To give you an idea, I was supposed to achieve at a painless 90degree bend at about week 10 or 11. I did that at just over 4 week (doctor's prospects).
On paper, that is nearly 2x-3x ahead of schedule. That's sounds about right too. IGF can heal up to 3x faster. I have used IGF about 60% of the time since surgery. Things are looking up, I am using weights now, the leg is very weak but gaining mobility.
[My injured bunny] started a new IGF about 5 days ago. While the first IGF run was good. This is perhaps even better.
Two weeks after surgery I could bend my knee apx. 55degrees (with terrible pain). At the end of first IGF run it was about 65-75degrees. The IGF was discontinued for about 2 weeks and resumed. I seem to be gaining 2.5degree on my knee a day. This is small amount but it ridiculous amount given the nature of the injury.
To give you an idea, I was supposed to achieve at a painless 90degree bend at about week 10 or 11. I did that at just over 4 week (doctor's prospects).
On paper, that is nearly 2x-3x ahead of schedule. That's sounds about right too. IGF can heal up to 3x faster. I have used IGF about 60% of the time since surgery. Things are looking up, I am using weights now, the leg is very weak but gaining mobility.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
sh_T the board froze and i just lost a long post. damn it to hell
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
ha, there has been no training for 5 weeks now
gone from 235, 12% 34.5"waist
to 225, ?%, 37" waist
sucks man.. I'm probably going to have to look into a Hoodia product, I'm getting super fat again
gone from 235, 12% 34.5"waist
to 225, ?%, 37" waist
sucks man.. I'm probably going to have to look into a Hoodia product, I'm getting super fat again
kwyckemynd00
Registered User
I've already told him all about Venom....that stuff is pretty crazy, lol.
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
yup ordered Venom last night
cowardly lion
New member
Grunt76 said:Ouch that seems like quite a procedure man. If I were you I'd begin treatment as soon after the procedure as possible. IGF goes to work right away, so preloading isn't necessary, plus its hypoglycemic properties might cause some raised eyebrows during surgery as your blood sugar keeps dropping... If they do keep an eye on it... I would go for the good old 25 days at 40mcg ED starting ASAP after surgery.
Just wondering ... Why that procedure in the first place? If it were I in your situation, I would have tried just the IGF-1 injected close to the bad disc with some stretching and such, before signing up for such a major procedure. Of course you - and your doc - know your situation infinitely better than I do, for all I know you have already tried this...
Healing OK I guess. Shoulder and arms pretty damn sore from moving though. I'm in more pain now than when they just took off my casts. Less mobility also.
Wishing you the very best with your surgery bro.
well , actually I can't get anyone to inject for me there! Location makes self administration risky... I think your conjecture is sound ... imo it would definitely be worht a try.
My problem is who to get to administer. the only one willing is my old training partner, he's got a black belt in tang soo do and tae kwon do but I don't necessarily trust him with sharp
needles near my spine, and my dr;s opinion is I'm fooling with snake oil. I want so bad to have the procedure done and apply the IGF-1 during recovery and watch the jaws drop at
the accellerated healing rate.
Meanwhile I am still waiting as the ins comp and the Dr's office battle it out over approval, blue cross still thinks its to experimental, they would be happy to yank out the present disk and insert rods and pins but a proven hi tec industrial polymer is to risky ! ###holes!!! Go figure. Any way thanks for the info and I will still try to find a way to administer beforehand if possible. Hope your recovery is coming along smoothly! All the best my friend!
CL
CEDeoudes59
USA HOCKEY
CEDeoudes59 said:ha, there has been no training for 5 weeks now
gone from 235, 12% 34.5"waist
to 225, ?%, 37" waist
sucks man.. I'm probably going to have to look into a Hoodia product, I'm getting super fat again
Update, I'm 225ish with a ~35.25"waist.
Not bad, only been back in the gym for about 2-3weeks now.
I want to be 225ish with at 34"waist by months end.
sikboy
New member
I was in a near fatal accident back in 2000, i suffered massive internal injuries, head trauma, and i damaged the C5 nerve that innervates my left shoulder, as a result, my shoulder has atrophied severly, now could IGF-1 rebuild the muscle in my damaged shoulder?
Im unsure if i should try it in that shoulder, im worried it could be a waste.
Im unsure if i should try it in that shoulder, im worried it could be a waste.
Grunt76
Well-known member
Any news on this?
It is worth a shot. Keep the doses low (20mcg) and over time it should help a lot. Are all the injuries healed now?
sikboy
New member
Ya bro, I still have some psychological probs that pertain to extreme aggression, its kind of like epilepsy, I can black out in a fit of rage and do god knows what.
Strangely enough, when I got on aas and started to look and feel good, my aggression didn’t rear its ugly head so much, I knew that feeling and looking good was the only thing that could curb the aggression, but its still there, just not as bad.
Im on quetiapine and propranol, I don’t take as much as the docs would like me to take, there aint no way im living like a damn zombie, I use the quetiapine to help me sleep b4 bed, the propranol doesn’t seem to effect me, it apparently suppresses excess adrenalin and my system must flood with unreal amounts of adrenalin when I get angry.
Man I love IGF-1 also!
I think I will shoot 20 mcg bi laterally in my quads when i work them next and 20 mcg in my damaged shoulder, I don’t like the thought of sticking the needle in there, because there is not much mass, but ill just be careful with my .5 inch pin.
Thanks for the advice.
Werewolf
Active member
I also suffer when a medicially documented over active adrelin gland. I have had the problem since I was born and have to learn to control it. It is reason I must lift weights. It is weight lifting that produces calm for me. Phera-plex does act like a trancilizer in me, but I doubt it is the Steriods that help you. It sounds like this is new problem for you?
You may want to consider Martial Arts to control the furry and get off the drugs. You need to find the right instructor and tell him what you need. It seems like reverse logic, but it worked for me.
sikboy
New member
The problem arose when i suffered secondary hypoxic brain damage that was confined to the frontal lobes, once i go, thats it.
Werewolf
Active member
It is too bad they didn't give you IGF-1R3 at the time of injury. It would stopped a lot of the brain damage. IGF-1R3 is absolutely increadable for that purpose.
IGF-1R3 is still extremily good for healing the brain. I think you want Oratrophin over injectable for brain healing effects. You at least want to consider injecting subQ or at higher doses to get systemic effects for healing. Normally systemic effects are avoided to keep intestine growth down.
If you want see the studies out there just do a search on "IGF-1 hypoxic brain damage" or "IGF-1 brain damage"
Grunt76
Well-known member
I agree although injected IGF-1 will not cross the blood-brain barrier. Pegylated MGF has very good effects like those though, and it does cross the BBB... :woohoo:
BTW there is a nice new nifty little supplement called Epistane that many guys now report makes them feel calm, focussed, and all-around GOOD. It also puts on the muscle...
Werewolf
Active member
I agree although injected IGF-1 will not cross the blood-brain barrier. Pegylated MGF has very good effects like those though, and it does cross the BBB... :woohoo:
BTW there is a nice new nifty little supplement called Epistane that many guys now report makes them feel calm, focussed, and all-around GOOD. It also puts on the muscle...
Correct me if I am wrong, but Oratrophin does make it past BBB so Oratrophin and Pegylated MGF would be best for Brain repair?
Grunt76
Well-known member
That is absolutely, unequivocally right. :hammer:
BrettFavor
New member
I have a winged scapula on my right side which makes my right shoulder rounded which in turn makes my right pec shorter than my left pec and slightly smaller. Follow all of that? Anyways I have been doing rehab work on it(chest stretches to lengthen pec muscle, face pulls, cable rows, lat stretches, and wall stretches to help and it is SLOWLY improving,but I am not satisfied).
Do you guys think adding IGF-1 would help with a winged scapula and the problems that arise from it?
Also would any other of the supplements mentioned be beneficial?
(I have access to just about anything)
In Addition are there any other exercises or anything that would help?
Ubi perhaps you could chime in on what you did for your shoulder impingement. Any help from anyone with experience or knowledge or this would really help me a lot.
** done hijacking your thread now**
GL with your recovery bro
Do you guys think adding IGF-1 would help with a winged scapula and the problems that arise from it?
Also would any other of the supplements mentioned be beneficial?
(I have access to just about anything)
In Addition are there any other exercises or anything that would help?
Ubi perhaps you could chime in on what you did for your shoulder impingement. Any help from anyone with experience or knowledge or this would really help me a lot.
** done hijacking your thread now**
GL with your recovery bro
Werewolf
Active member
IGF-1R3 is helpful for healing nerve damage so it may be very helpful. This is an injury I not very familar with at all except what I just read off the web.
Grunt76
Well-known member
Local benefits will be slim to none. This is also the reason why pinning it at the site of any injury REAL SOON after it happens (or surgery to repair the injury) is a huge bonus.
sandusky
New member
Thanks. (Actually that question was meant to go in the 'my take on igf' thread.)
At any rate, regarding recovery from surgery, I did just HGH & AS before & after a total hip replacement last December, & had sufficient restoration of function to walk a mile up & down hills within 2 weeks, & was doing squats, deadlifts, and jumps within 6 weeks. Plus, 3 months out, due to my intensive weight & stamina training the past 12 months & quitting smoking, at age 60 I'm now probably in the best all-around condition I've ever been in my life! And you think IGF is even better?!
Werewolf
Active member
How much HGH did you do?
HGH does raise IGF-1, but you can much faster healing faster with IGF-1R3. HGH is a more complete healer. The fastest and most complete comes using both HGH (or booster) and IGF-1R3.
Here is another thread on similar subject.
Invalid Link Removed
sandusky
New member
HGH 2.5 iu/day, 5d/wk. But I believe the AS also probably played a major role.
-------------------------------------------------------
By the way, I just used IGF-LR3 on a muscle in my thigh, (sartorius) that started bothering me last week (probably an overuse syndrome from sports) which was making certain moves involving that leg painful to do. I pinned 40 mcg in divided portions all along the muscle 2 days in a row earlier this week & today it's already much better (despite no let-up in my daily sports & work-out routine).
christopher
Member
What kinda HGH did you use..?
sandusky
New member
bioman
Well-known member
Yes, I'd say it is legit and he hits upon some pretty new and interesting info about IGF-1. The thing to keep in mind is that although IGF-1 may "promote" the growth of cancer cells, that is not saying it causes cancer in the first place. In other words, if you have cancer cells present and then take r3 IGF-1 that would make those cancer cells grow, but the presence of IGF-1 does not mutate cells in the first place.
The data he presented on milk raising IGF levels has been known for awhile and is one of the reasons BBer's use whey products. If you want to live forever..well, avoid milk, heavy lifting and elevated IGF levels.
Personally, I save R3-IGF-1 for big injuries and see no real danger in doing so. I would not use it all the time though.
christopher
Member
:goodpost:
jenab123
New member
I don't buy a lot he was saying. Inverse relationship between size and lifespan? How long does a blue whale live? Longer than Gary Coleman. How about Sequoia trees? 300 feet tall and 5000 years old? (I know they prolly don't have any IGF)
Within the same species? The dog analogy was absurd, as anyone who has dogs can tell you. On average smaller breeds may live a little longer, but my 13 year old german shepherd thought that was funny. Tall people will often die sooner but many other factors come into play. Like pumping blood all the way up to 7 feet. Or falling down from the same height. It has nothing to do with the levels of GH/IGF that prompted that growth way back in their childhood. A bigger organism simply see greater stresses both mechanical and metabolic. That is not the same as saying prolonged high IGF levels were at fault, or even that higher exogenous levels of IGF after the organism has grown is more stressful.
Lower levels of IGF makes you look better and younger and live longer? Well then why is the first almost immediate thing that happens when people take GH or IGF is their skin looks better and small injuries and scars heal and they look and feel younger? WTF do genetically engineering mice have to do with real people? What other systemic changes propagate through an organism when you gene-modify it to produce less IGF? In other words if they lived longer and looked younger, great, but maybe the reduced IGF was a side effect not the primary cause. I'd want to see real people they directly and solely inhibit the action of IGF in live longer and look better. But that obviously won't happen, they'll look like **** and die sooner cause nothing would ever heal.
And those were just the things that popped out in the first minute or so. Now if he were backing up his claims with real studies, but he wasn't. Its this kind of shoddy reasoning masquerading as expert science that gets things banned.
jmh80
Well-known member
Hold up - are you a woman (Jena)? A real woman?
Not a fairy male acting like a woman....
jenab123
New member
What's your problem, dip****? Arrghh. It won't let me call you a dipsh1t, you forking dipsh1t. "jenab" in another language (not english) means "sir".
RedwolfWV
Registered User
Probably not the same, but according to that Dr. your levels would rise. But I'd be concerned about all the estrogens you'd be getting from all that soy too.
supersoldier
She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
Best quote ever:
:lol: :thumbsup:
Thinking about this makes me LOL a lot of times when I'm preparing my syringes or pinning my IGF.
:lol: :thumbsup:
bioman
Well-known member
I've been pondering all of this for a day or two now. Biologically, you can't compare the lifespans of totally different species and hold it up as proof that one factor is the causation...so in part, I agree with what you are saying. However, there are a few quasi-paradigms in biology that do hold true such as higher metabolic rates having typically shorter lifespans than animals with slower ones
" He who burns twice as bright, burns half as long" kind of holds true.
We know that most steriod users will developed an enlarged heart. Steroid users who also use HGH will almost certainly develope an enlarged heart as will those who use IGF-1. This is just one small way by which something like IGF-1 can lead to an earlier than normal mortality. Perhaps there are numerous others, even outside of the elevated risk of metastisizing cancer cells, that we don't know about yet.
"It has nothing to do with the levels of GH/IGF that prompted that growth way back in their childhood."
I don't think we know what the aforementioned IGF levels were in their adulthood though and that's what he's talking about. People with gigantism have elevated HGH and IGF-1. They develope acromegaly, enlarged hearts and organs, they age rapidly in the biochemical sense so even though they may appear youngish looking, they are being eaten alive by age related diseases, free radical and age related glycation end products. Their hearts, already stressed by having to work that hard are then slowly damaged by the skewed age related stressers.
There are quite a few studies looking at IGF's role in aging. For example;
Control of aging and longevity by IGF-I signaling.
Yang J,
Anzo M,
Cohen P.
Division of Pediatric Endocrinology, Mattel Children's Hospital at UCLA, David Geffen School of Medicine, Los Angeles, CA 90095, USA.
Animal models have established the IGF-I signaling pathway as a key modulator of aging in rodents and invertebrates. Considerable evidence suggests that reduced exposure of tissue to IGF-I is associated with an extended lifespan in these species. In humans, IGF-I is linked to various age-related diseases that are limiting factors for youthful longevity. On one hand, reduced IGF-I activity is associated with significant morbidity in adulthood with an increased risk of developing cardiovascular disease, diabetes, osteoporosis and neurodegenerative diseases. On the other hand, elevated IGF-I levels have been linked to cancer risk given the role of IGF in mediating normal and malignant tissue growth. Thus, IGF is clearly involved in modulating disease of aging; however, the mechanism appears to be complex and interdependent on additional modulating factors. It is attractive to hypothesize that maximal human survival depends on tight regulation of the GH-IGF axis and maintenance of optimal IGF-I action in order to prevent morbidities associated with either deficient or excessive state. Specifically, it is possible that lower levels of IGF-I during early adulthood followed by higher levels of IGF-I later in life may be most beneficial for human longevity by addressing age-specific morbidities.
PMID: 16154307 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Then there is lots of evidence both direct and indirect as to IGF, aging and early onset of age-related diseases. We know that one of the main mechanisms of action for green tea is that it suppresses IGF-1 levels likely giving Asian populations the lower risk for cancer that is seen. Lower levels of diabetes, heart disease and other inflammatory diseases are also related to this, and of course, to a cleaner diet in general.
Also, IGF's similarity to insulin is such that it simply needs to be at a balanced level. Too much insulin..deadly, not enough..deadly and this is likely the case for IGF-1 as well. IGF is even more powerful than insulin on many fronts.
So yes, bigger animals and people have more stressers on them and certainly IGF-1 levels can play a role in this.