Possible jaundice help

[grngoloco]

This guy wasn't doing labs... and should have stopped and went to the doctor at the first sign of problems,, DO YOUR LABS!! TAKE YOUR SUPPORT SUPPS!! DRINK WATER!! DON'T FORCE IT!! IF YOU HAVE A REAL PROBLEM,, STOP!!

 

[bluedevil00]

This guy wasn't doing labs... and should have stopped and went to the doctor at the first sign of problems,, DO YOUR LABS!! TAKE YOUR SUPPORT SUPPS!! DRINK WATER!! DON'T FORCE IT!! IF YOU HAVE A REAL PROBLEM,, STOP!!

Hey Bro just so you know..I get labs done twice a week for the last two months, I went to the doc right away I took all the "support" I needed. I did everything "right" and I'm lucky to be alive.

 

[bluedevil00]

I'm glad to see that this thread is still alive 2 months later. Honestly I'm glad I'm alive, idk how I still have my sanity when I find the heart to do it I will put up some pictures or a video. But know this in the last 2 months I have lost 30lbs I'm smaller than when I started lifting. I feel like **** I look like a monster. I can't eat without getting sick, I can't sleep (it's currently 4:12 am) my body is a giant scab from scratching. My skin is yellow, my eyes are yellow, I haven't worked since two days after my last post, my life is hell. And trust me I wish I could take it back but I can't. I feel and look like a little skinny yellow slug. All my hard work is gone and I can't even live a normal life. I did everything that I was "supposed" to do I check and rechecked and posted and reposted and asked all the questions and bought all the support supps and spent loads of money to "do it right" at the end of the day. You are putting basically poison in your body and you better ask yourself if it's worth it. Sure there are guys doing it successfully and when your all bro-ed up and everyone says go for it, it sounds like a good idea. But I'm here to tell you this stuff is NO JOKE if you are new here and considering a PH go somewhere else and lift for another year and see if your still not satisfied. When I can find the confidence to post some pictures of myself I will show you how wrecked I am from trying to recover. Thanks for the concern everyone and sorry I haven't posted in a while but as someone put it perfectly above...this is the last place I've wanted to be.

 

[Airborne42]

Glad your still alive bro

 

[AaronJP1]

Right.. ^

Thought the doc said you will be ok?

 

[Airborne42]

That's what I'm sayin bro

 

[grngoloco]

Hey Bro just so you know..I get labs done twice a week for the last two months, I went to the doc right away I took all the "support" I needed. I did everything "right" and I'm lucky to be alive.

Did you get labs done mid-cycle?

 

[grngoloco]

I'm glad you came back... we need you here to maintain some sanity,,, I'm a huge proponent of pre labs, midway labs and post labs .... good luck and keep us posted

 

[AaronJP1]

This needs to be a sticky...

Makes just eating n lifting sound 100% legit!

 

[grngoloco]

Blue devil,, out of curiosity, what were your ALT and AST levels?

 

[T-Bone]

I'm glad to see that this thread is still alive 2 months later. Honestly I'm glad I'm alive, idk how I still have my sanity when I find the heart to do it I will put up some pictures or a video. But know this in the last 2 months I have lost 30lbs I'm smaller than when I started lifting. I feel like **** I look like a monster. I can't eat without getting sick, I can't sleep (it's currently 4:12 am) my body is a giant scab from scratching. My skin is yellow, my eyes are yellow, I haven't worked since two days after my last post, my life is hell. And trust me I wish I could take it back but I can't. I feel and look like a little skinny yellow slug. All my hard work is gone and I can't even live a normal life. I did everything that I was "supposed" to do I check and rechecked and posted and reposted and asked all the questions and bought all the support supps and spent loads of money to "do it right" at the end of the day. You are putting basically poison in your body and you better ask yourself if it's worth it. Sure there are guys doing it successfully and when your all bro-ed up and everyone says go for it, it sounds like a good idea. But I'm here to tell you this stuff is NO JOKE if you are new here and considering a PH go somewhere else and lift for another year and see if your still not satisfied. When I can find the confidence to post some pictures of myself I will show you how wrecked I am from trying to recover. Thanks for the concern everyone and sorry I haven't posted in a while but as someone put it perfectly above...this is the last place I've wanted to be.

Hey friend. I went through the same thing back in 05. Did you ever try the ice bath I mentioned?. Seriously that helped me get through it. Don't put any hot water in the bath just ice cold. Stand at first and then gradually lower yourself into the tub. Either that or an ice cold foot bath, use a small plastic tub and fill it half with ice and then put some water in there. Sit back on the couch and watch tv or whatever but put your feet in the ice cold water and it should help somewhat.

 

[T-Bone]

I remember the smell of food making me gag, especially protein. I lost a lot of weight/muscle too. So much so I could barely walk. I remember I fell flat on my face in the parking lot leaving the hospital. Oh and also remember the smell of my skin. My skin gave off this awful odor and the only way I would describe it is the smell of death. Your liver is a vital organ. People don't understand that even if you do what your suppose to do and take all the "support supps" in the world its not going to protect you. Taking support supplements may help you feel better in your mind but they really aren't going to help you. Everything you ingest has to be processed by the liver, so taking more pills isn't going to help the situation its just going to compound it. On top of the toxic SD if you take a SERM, that is also toxic to your liver. A SERM may help you recover faster, but you are still going to recover without one. They wouldn't give me any drugs in the hospital after they had a firm understanding of what was wrong. You know why?. Because they all are metabolized by the liver and that just puts more stress on the liver. I'm not just talking out my ass here I asked the doctor who was head of the liver transplant team...

 

[AaronJP1]

I remember the smell of food making me gag, especially protein. I lost a lot of weight/muscle too. So much so I could barely walk. I remember I fell flat on my face in the parking lot leaving the hospital. Oh and also remember the smell of my skin. My skin gave off this awful odor and the only way I would describe it is the smell of death. Your liver is a vital organ. People don't understand that even if you do what your suppose to do and take all the "support supps" in the world its not going to protect you. Taking support supplements may help you feel better in your mind but they really aren't going to help you. Everything you ingest has to be processed by the liver, so taking more pills isn't going to help the situation its just going to compound it. On top of the toxic SD if you take a SERM, that is also toxic to your liver. A SERM may help you recover faster, but you are still going to recover without one. They wouldn't give me any drugs in the hospital after they had a firm understanding of what was wrong. You know why?. Because they all are metabolized by the liver and that just puts more stress on the liver. I'm not just talking out my ass here I asked the doctor who was head of the liver transplant team...

This!

 

[bluedevil00]

I remember the smell of food making me gag, especially protein. I lost a lot of weight/muscle too. So much so I could barely walk. I remember I fell flat on my face in the parking lot leaving the hospital. Oh and also remember the smell of my skin. My skin gave off this awful odor and the only way I would describe it is the smell of death. Your liver is a vital organ. People don't understand that even if you do what your suppose to do and take all the "support supps" in the world its not going to protect you. Taking support supplements may help you feel better in your mind but they really aren't going to help you. Everything you ingest has to be processed by the liver, so taking more pills isn't going to help the situation its just going to compound it. On top of the toxic SD if you take a SERM, that is also toxic to your liver. A SERM may help you recover faster, but you are still going to recover without one. They wouldn't give me any drugs in the hospital after they had a firm understanding of what was wrong. You know why?. Because they all are metabolized by the liver and that just puts more stress on the liver. I'm not just talking out my ass here I asked the doctor who was head of the liver transplant team...

Exactly!

 

[bluedevil00]

Blue devil,, out of curiosity, what were your ALT and AST levels?

I'll check for ya just gotta dig out the papers

 

[grngoloco]

I'll check for ya just gotta dig out the papers

My recent labs after only 10 days of 10mg sdrol and two with 20mg sdrol combined with 50mg hdrol were:
AST: 94 (Normal 0-40) *HIGH!! *
ALT: 289 (Normal 0-55)*EXTREMELY HIGH*
all other numbers were normal.
Even my bilirubin, which causes the yellowing was only .5 , which is low to mid normal,, I stopped taking all methyls for now until I see a doctor

 

[grngoloco]

My recent labs after only 10 days of 10mg sdrol and two with 20mg sdrol combined with 50mg hdrol were:
AST: 94 (Normal 0-40) *HIGH!! *
ALT: 289 (Normal 0-55)*EXTREMELY HIGH*
all other numbers were normal.
Even my bilirubin, which causes the yellowing was only .5 , which is low to mid normal,, I stopped taking all methyls for now until I see a doctor

The only liver symptoms I have is a loss of appetite, which came almost immediately after starting the sdrol, light colored poo, and dark colored pee

 

[ManBeast]

good call on stopping the methyls for now man. maybe up the liver support for a while?

 

[grngoloco]

good call on stopping the methyls for now man. maybe up the liver support for a while?

I'm all over it,,, I was pretty much already maxed out on liver supps,,, either I already had an oversensitive liver,, had some sort of allergic type reaction, already had something going on or it's a false reading,,, gonna go see a gastroenteritis tomorrow or the next day.. I have awesome insurance and can see any doctor I want at any time for $25.00... no reason to take chances ... lol

 

[AaronJP1]

Done with methyls...

It took my appetite away...

 

[grngoloco]

I'm not selling my hdrol yet,, just gonna see how things pan out first

 

[bluedevil00]

good call on stopping the methyls for now man. maybe up the liver support for a while?

This is a common misconception. All the liver support in the world will not undue any effects, it will only make matters worse. The only thing that will help is to stop ALL supplement intake, increase the amount of liquids you take in and cut your protein intake to an absolute minimum.

 

[bluedevil00]

My recent labs after only 10 days of 10mg sdrol and two with 20mg sdrol combined with 50mg hdrol were:
AST: 94 (Normal 0-40) *HIGH!! *
ALT: 289 (Normal 0-55)*EXTREMELY HIGH*
all other numbers were normal.
Even my bilirubin, which causes the yellowing was only .5 , which is low to mid normal,, I stopped taking all methyls for now until I see a doctor

I would be careful bro even though the bilirubin is still at normal it can take a while for it to start going up, almost three weeks after stoping the mdrol my bilirubin was only at 12 the next week it was in the low 20s. I also noticed almost zero yellow features immediately after stopping, and had similar sides to what you are saying. Go see a doc and stop what ever your on.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I'm not selling my hdrol yet,, just gonna see how things pan out first

I'll take 'em. I pay with cash money.

 

[grngoloco]

I would be careful bro even though the bilirubin is still at normal it can take a while for it to start going up, almost three weeks after stoping the mdrol my bilirubin was only at 12 the next week it was in the low 20s. I also noticed almost zero yellow features immediately after stopping, and had similar sides to what you are saying. Go see a doc and stop what ever your on.

I'm still curious what your initial blood levels were... primarily ALT and AST

 

[T-Bone]

This is a common misconception. All the liver support in the world will not undue any effects, it will only make matters worse. The only thing that will help is to stop ALL supplement intake, increase the amount of liquids you take in and cut your protein intake to an absolute minimum.

Exactly.

 

[thyrod]

Damn, def needs to be a sticky. I totally bypassed the whole pro hormones and went straight to researching injectabels for this reason(less harsh on the liver) For the year I've been researching I ain't ever considered ph's for I am a very unlucky person.
So bottom line to all this is that you should always get bloods done before cycling? Still 19 so dismiss my ignorance.

 

[vidapreta]

Damn this is some scary sh!t

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

 

[grngoloco]

Damn, def needs to be a sticky. I totally bypassed the whole pro hormones and went straight to researching injectabels for this reason(less harsh on the liver) For the year I've been researching I ain't ever considered ph's for I am a very unlucky person.
So bottom line to all this is that you should always get bloods done before cycling? Still 19 so dismiss my ignorance.

Definitely get bloods before,, I buy three labs in advance,, one gets used prior, one in the middle and one at the end,,, I recently did my midway labs and my liver enzymes were super high, so I stopped the methyls,,, had I waited til the end or not done them at all, who knows what may have happened,,, I'm always one to take calculated chances,, but not one to take short cuts,,, last thing I want is a liver transplant,,, no amount of muscle is worth that

 

[thyrod]

Agreed, thanks!

 

[grngoloco]

Had some midcycle labs done,, showed extremely high liver enzymes,, stopped everything and went to the doctor,,, her labs showed high enzymes,, did some more tests,, turns out it was a virus that attacked my liver, not the ph's... but had I continued the ph's they would have seriously hurt me in combination with the virus,,, chalk up another saved liver to regular labs!!! "If you can't afford labs, you can't afford to do AAS's!!!"

 

[ssbackwards]

This is a common misconception. All the liver support in the world will not undue any effects, it will only make matters worse. The only thing that will help is to stop ALL supplement intake, increase the amount of liquids you take in and cut your protein intake to an absolute minimum.

FYI, Liver damage \is associated with a rise in Nf-KappaB which is exactly what milk thistle and other products lower.

Also inflammation caused by TNFa and IL-6 contribute to the rise in Nf-kB when seen in high amounts. So again products that lower TNFa IL6 and Nf-kB definetly work to restore liver function after you remove the culprit damaging it.

 

[T-Bone]

FYI, Liver damage \is associated with a rise in Nf-KappaB which is exactly what milk thistle and other products lower.

Also inflammation caused by TNFa and IL-6 contribute to the rise in Nf-kB when seen in high amounts. So again products that lower TNFa IL6 and Nf-kB definetly work to restore liver function after you remove the culprit damaging it.

I'll have to disagree with you. The fact that you think any "support supplements" are going to help you recover after the liver has been damaged is laughable. You know what though, I'm not gonna argue with you about it. Its just not worth my time and I already know the truth.

 

[ssbackwards]

I'll have to disagree with you. The fact that you think any "support supplements" are going to help you recover after the liver has been damaged is laughable. You know what though, I'm not gonna argue with you about it. Its just not worth my time and I already know the truth.

so you are saying that damage to liver is not going to recover, when inflammation markers are reduced? especially markers specific for liver damage are reduced...

im not saying itll make you 100% im just saying, read the science.

 

[MattPorter]

Yeah I healed up just fine but it took forever and there were times people didn't think I would make it. The OP's biliruben levels got up to 13. Mine kept going up and up and didn't stabilize for several months. Eventually they stabilized in the high 50's. Normal reference range is 0.1-1.4. My HDL was "too low to get a reading" and LDL was off the charts. I was as yellow as bart simpson. Also lost all desire to eat. Started off around 230-240 pounds and when I left the hospital I was barely 180 and could barely stand. I was itchy 24/7 from head to toe. I had huge scratches and cuts all over from scratching. The nurses actually taped gloves on my hands at one point. This constant itching kept me awake too so I never got much sleep, just in and out of consciousness for say 15 minutes at a time. The only way I could relax was to take a cold shower. I would put it on cold full blast, cold enough so it would numb my skin and I couldn't feel it. Of course this only lasted as long as it took my body to warm up again. If I couldn't take a shower I would just put my feet in an ice water bath and lay back on the bed and sleep for a little bit like that.


Ahhh Memories!. This happened in August 2005, Katrina was making landfall when I was first admitted to the emergency room.

This is unbelievable and a rude awakening. You know how many newbies or young - easily influenced "parrots" there are that "think" superdrol sides are overrated and "the liver is strong and resilient" etc... and will never consider something like this happening to them? TONS onvarious forums.

I have heard these stories first hand on different phone calls when I used to handle calls in customer service for PP. It freaked me out so much that I sold my superdrone LV because I WAS TO FRIGHTENED to take it!

I admit I am extreme and advanced and my instincts knew there were better ways to get to my goal --- even though the reports were crzy good (15-25 lbs gains).

-- This is a HUGE reason for the creation of the AndroSeries.

-Matt

 

[T-Bone]

so you are saying that damage to liver is not going to recover, when inflammation markers are reduced? especially markers specific for liver damage are reduced...

im not saying itll make you 100% im just saying, read the science.

Just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean in actual life it works that way. I'm going by my own experience and the time I spent in the hospital talking to Gastro docs. I asked This guy about it and several other doctors. They would not give me any drugs for the intense itching because everything is metabolized by the liver. The best thing is to drink a ton of water. The only thing they gave me was Cholestyramine. Occasionally they gave me IV benadryl. Seriously though I asked about taking milk thistle and things like that and was told they only compound the problem. All the support supplements I took actually made me worse off.

 

[T-Bone]

Superdrol is poison to me and hundreds of others. As far as I'm concerned the world would be a better place without it. All you need is a quick google search to find that out.

 

[MattPorter]

Pitiful to think they banned poor little 4-AD, 1-AD, 19 nordiol and other safe muscle builders....

but this filth has survived so long......

-Matt

 

[jaydollars]

Pitiful to think they banned poor little 4-AD, 1-AD, 19 nordiol and other safe muscle builders....

but this filth has survived so long......

-Matt

I wish there was a place to still get these diol compounds

 

[T-Bone]

Pitiful to think they banned poor little 4-AD, 1-AD, 19 nordiol and other safe muscle builders....

but this filth has survived so long......

-Matt

No joke!. 1T/4AD trans-dermal cycles were the best. I still believe that 1T/4AD trans-dermal beats out any of the nasty legal oral DS/PH/PS type products that are around today.

 

[MattPorter]

Funny thing is ,,,

The 4ad , 1t dermals INCREASED mass by 12-15 lbs in 4-8 weeks consistently WITHOUT messing your system up.

I know they are experimenting with 4AD for TRT / anti-aging purposes and it makes sense -- ITS SAFE AND WORKS!

98 - 2002 was good times....

-Matt

 

[grngoloco]

I'm going through some liver issues right now,,, alt and ast were majorly elevated,, found it during my midcycle labs,, turned out to be a virus and not the ph's. However, the doctor told me to continue my b-12 shots, my multivitamin, cysteine and milk thistle,, if it doesn't respond and get better, there is a medicine he's going to give me that specifically works as an anti-inflammatory for the liver,,, all other levels are fine,, have full function but it is seriously inflamed from the virus

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Funny thing is ,,,

The 4ad , 1t dermals INCREASED mass by 12-15 lbs in 4-8 weeks consistently WITHOUT messing your system up.

I know they are experimenting with 4AD for TRT / anti-aging purposes and it makes sense -- ITS SAFE AND WORKS!

98 - 2002 was good times....

-Matt

well there you go....thats why they banned it, so they can make it a TRT script and make gazillions of dollars on it.

 

[AaronJP1]

This is unbelievable and a rude awakening. You know how many newbies or young - easily influenced "parrots" there are that "think" superdrol sides are overrated and "the liver is strong and resilient" etc... and will never consider something like this happening to them? TONS onvarious forums.

I have heard these stories first hand on different phone calls when I used to handle calls in customer service for PP. It freaked me out so much that I sold my superdrone LV because I WAS TO FRIGHTENED to take it!

I admit I am extreme and advanced and my instincts knew there were better ways to get to my goal --- even though the reports were crzy good (15-25 lbs gains).

-- This is a HUGE reason for the creation of the AndroSeries

-Matt

& I apperciate the line!

 

[T-Bone]

Bluedevil, you still around?. Where I went to high school the basketball team was the "Blue devils".

 

[SPS]

Bluedevil, you still around?. Where I went to high school the basketball team was the "Blue devils".

You from Iowa?

 

[vidapreta]

Iowa?

Slipknot

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk

 

[RB2]

bluedevil you still here? I'm going through the same thing man, hdrol cycle planned and used support supps.

What we have is called cholestasis (which I'm sure you know by now).

luckily my ALP started dropping (was on the rise for the first month and a half) and my bilirubin as well. normal range from my lab for bili was 2-22, last years bloods show my normal level to be around 6. My bilirubin peaked at 402 just a little while ago and has just begun to drop rapidly. I'm now sitting at around 142 (dropping at a rate of ~40 points every 3 days).

I've lost 26 pounds. Pale stools dark urine itch as HELL skin, yellow skin, the whole deal. It's been almost 2 months now, and only now am I able to wear clothes somewhat comfortably.

From my research I gathered that we are genetically prone to cholestasis of the bile ducts (blockage of bile flow due to inflammation) due to 17-a steroids. This isn't something that will happen to your average joe.

the only problem, however, is that my ALT and AST have both been floating at about 2x normal range for the past month and have not budged. I guess the drop in ALP and bilirubin shows healing, and my skin and eyes have been improving daily! Color is returning to my stool and my urine is starting to lighten up.

I was also told I may very well require a transplant, I was also told I was doing worse than some of the cancer patients (wtf doctor, Y U say that!)

also, showering is uncomfortable as hell and my skin feels dry and tight after (although this sensation is leaving now)


Please update this thread so I can know what is going on bro, I think its useful to both of us to have someone else going through the same thing. How's your healing coming along? could you post up your bloods and the trend they follow? I'm very interested!

here is my thread on PH forum:

prohormoneforum.com/prohormone-forum/55071-day-3-pct-yellow-eyes.html



edit: Forgot to mention I'm on UDCA (1000mg daily) and Colestipol for itching (3g)

 

[vidapreta]

bluedevil you still here? I'm going through the same thing man, hdrol cycle planned and used support supps.

What we have is called cholestasis (which I'm sure you know by now).

luckily my ALP started dropping (was on the rise for the first month and a half) and my bilirubin as well. normal range from my lab for bili was 2-22, last years bloods show my normal level to be around 6. My bilirubin peaked at 402 just a little while ago and has just begun to drop rapidly. I'm now sitting at around 142 (dropping at a rate of ~40 points every 3 days).

I've lost 26 pounds. Pale stools dark urine itch as HELL skin, yellow skin, the whole deal. It's been almost 2 months now, and only now am I able to wear clothes somewhat comfortably.

From my research I gathered that we are genetically prone to cholestasis of the bile ducts (blockage of bile flow due to inflammation) due to 17-a steroids. This isn't something that will happen to your average joe.

the only problem, however, is that my ALT and AST have both been floating at about 2x normal range for the past month and have not budged. I guess the drop in ALP and bilirubin shows healing, and my skin and eyes have been improving daily! Color is returning to my stool and my urine is starting to lighten up.

I was also told I may very well require a transplant, I was also told I was doing worse than some of the cancer patients (wtf doctor, Y U say that!)

also, showering is uncomfortable as hell and my skin feels dry and tight after (although this sensation is leaving now)


Please update this thread so I can know what is going on bro, I think its useful to both of us to have someone else going through the same thing. How's your healing coming along? could you post up your bloods and the trend they follow? I'm very interested!

here is my thread on PH forum:

prohormoneforum.com/prohormone-forum/55071-day-3-pct-yellow-eyes.html



edit: Forgot to mention I'm on UDCA (1000mg daily) and Colestipol for itching (3g)

Wow this is from Hdrol...crazy

 

[san731]

Wow this is from Hdrol...crazy

I know! I ran it back in August and went out binge drinking twice on it. Got bloods the day after, liver values were still in the normal range. I was using cycle assist, though.