Plymouth City's Log

[plymouth city]

I did a trial of an alpha-1 inhibitor for similar problem-frequency, hesitation, ultrasound showed incomplete emptying of the bladder - all that stuff. At the same time, low PSA, small firm prostate. Uro thought it was either a stricture or an overactive bladder.


I couldn't stand that alpha-1 inibitor. I promised myself I would give it a 30-day trial, and gave up after three weeks.

I have to stay mentally sharp because my work involves sustained intellectual effort. The drug dumbed me down so much that I had difficulty working.

Actually, the urinary symptoms come and go - sometimes they are pretty aggravating, other times they aren't much of a problem.

Cpeil,
Im about 3 or 4 weeks into uroxatrol, and Im running into problems.

Im noticably more tired/lethargic lately, and I swear my sometimes brain fog has gotten a million times worse.

Similar issues? I am quitting this dam drug.

I have been researching some stuff on Saw Palmetto and various other extracts, like the one's in lef's prostate formula -http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00975.html . Research shows that it is just as effective as pharm grade alpha blockers and without the side effects. I can't handle this dam uroxatrol.

On a much better note, the guys over at primordialperformance.com have hooked me up with a free bottle of Dermacrine Sustain to give it a test run. For those not familiar with it

It contains 150mg dose of Chrysin, resveratrol and benzoflavone 7,8

I had my first application today a few hours ago. I was suprised at how liquid like it was, I was expecting more of a lotion thing - but this is a good thing. This stuff rubbed in in seconds, and dried in under a minute. No joke. 4 pumps, 3 on chest/upper shoulders and one on my balls :rofl: for extra absorbtion.

I will have post bloodwork done, just a few tests like TT and E2 to guage how it goes.

 

[cpeil2]

Cpeil,
Im about 3 or 4 weeks into uroxatrol, and Im running into problems.

Im noticably more tired/lethargic lately, and I swear my sometimes brain fog has gotten a million times worse.

Similar issues? I am quitting this dam drug.

I have been researching some stuff on Saw Palmetto and various other extracts, like the one's in lef's prostate formula -http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00975.html . Research shows that it is just as effective as pharm grade alpha blockers and without the side effects. I can't handle this dam uroxatrol.

On a much better note, the guys over at primordialperformance.com have hooked me up with a free bottle of Dermacrine Sustain to give it a test run. For those not familiar with it

It contains 150mg dose of Chrysin, resveratrol and benzoflavone 7,8

I had my first application today a few hours ago. I was suprised at how liquid like it was, I was expecting more of a lotion thing - but this is a good thing. This stuff rubbed in in seconds, and dried in under a minute. No joke. 4 pumps, 3 on chest/upper shoulders and one on my balls :rofl: for extra absorbtion.

I will have post bloodwork done, just a few tests like TT and E2 to guage how it goes.

My experience exactly. The failure rate for alpha-1 inhibitors is fairly high because guys just don't want to tolerate the side effects.

I have tried to take saw palmetto, but it gives me really achey joints after a few days. I suspect it might drive my DHT too low. One thing that worked great was capsules of hydrangea root. It's kind of hard to find, though.

 

[plymouth city]

My experience exactly. The failure rate for alpha-1 inhibitors is fairly high because guys just don't want to tolerate the side effects.

I have tried to take saw palmetto, but it gives me really achey joints after a few days. I suspect it might drive my DHT too low. One thing that worked great was capsules of hydrangea root. It's kind of hard to find, though.

Exactly :cheers: And Im a young 27 year old guy. I couldn't imagine the older people this drug is designed for, guys 60 70 80 years old being on this. Jeez This is why I NEVER take pharm grade script drugs. Yuck :rasp:

My head felt like it was in a haze the last week for sure, like I was sorta kinda hung over, but it lasted all day and I never drink LOL.

I have been taking Saw Palmetto with Beta Sitosterol. It too is a alpha 1 blocker, but natural and without the sides. My DHT is sky high anyways, any little reduction is welcome. http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00808.html

I have an appointment with my Dr and I will tell him no more of this uroxatrol crap. Thank god I never had to pay for it or I swear someone down at sanofi aventis(makers of drug -http://www.sanofi-aventis.us/live/us/en/index.jsp) would have gotten my size 9 shoe up there azz . :clean:

hydrangea root? I will give it a look.

 

[JanSz]

I used FLOMAX.
I did not liked the retrograte ejaculations, so I stopped it.
But otherwise no problem.
I have a large prostate.
Flomax | Tamsulosin HCl | BPH Treatment

----------------------------------------
There is also HYTRIN
I did not used, so no comments.
Hytrin
-------------------------------------------
On my last visit to my urologist, checking my enlarged prostate,
I got script for Uroxatral.
Most be the lattest favorite.
After reading your story I am sitting on that script.
I have plenty of Flomax to tide me over if I would need it.

 

[cpeil2]

I used FLOMAX.
I did not liked the retrograte ejaculations, so I stopped it.
But otherwise no problem.
I have a large prostate.
Flomax | Tamsulosin HCl | BPH Treatment

----------------------------------------
There is also HYTRIN
I did not used, so no comments.
Hytrin
-------------------------------------------
On my last visit to my urologist, checking my enlarged prostate,
I got script for Uroxatral.
Most be the lattest favorite.
After reading your story I am sitting on that script.
I have plenty of Flomax to tide me over if I would need it.

I think uroxatrol is the generic of Flomax.

 

[plymouth city]

I used FLOMAX.
I did not liked the retrograte ejaculations, so I stopped it.
But otherwise no problem.
I have a large prostate.
Flomax | Tamsulosin HCl | BPH Treatment

----------------------------------------
There is also HYTRIN
I did not used, so no comments.
Hytrin
-------------------------------------------
On my last visit to my urologist, checking my enlarged prostate,
I got script for Uroxatral.
Most be the lattest favorite.
After reading your story I am sitting on that script.
I have plenty of Flomax to tide me over if I would need it.

Sit on it JansZ, don't take it. I was really dragging all week. Once I finally got moving, like in workouts and at work, I was fine, but it was in my down time when I really noticed the sides.

I have been reading some really really promising stuff about Saw Palmetto all over the internet. In double blind studies it fares just as good as proscar at relieving BPH and it beat proscar at relieving urinary frequency and increased urinary flow. In more progressive Europe, it is the gold standard treatment. Here in the USA where Dr's cannot profit off of it, its unheard of.

On a better note, Dermacrine Sustain - I felt pretty chill all day after application, good feeling.

I awoke this morning to some nice wood. First time in probably 5 or 6 days. :yawn:

 

[JanSz]

Sit on it JansZ, don't take it. I was really dragging all week. Once I finally got moving, like in workouts and at work, I was fine, but it was in my down time when I really noticed the sides.

I have been reading some really really promising stuff about Saw Palmetto all over the internet. In double blind studies it fares just as good as proscar at relieving BPH and it beat proscar at relieving urinary frequency and increased urinary flow. In more progressive Europe, it is the gold standard treatment. Here in the USA where Dr's cannot profit off of it, its unheard of.

On a better note, Dermacrine Sustain - I felt pretty chill all day after application, good feeling.

I awoke this morning to some nice wood. First time in probably 5 or 6 days. :yawn:

I must say that I was taking Saw Palmeto for like close to 20 years, did not feel a thing, I was still taking it.
I awas taking mostly this:
http://www.physicianschoice.net/pages/Home/Shopping/Male_and_Female/Super_Prostate_Formula

May be it is just me.
I have a friend in Poland and he was taking (I think German product of this type).
He was telling me that it was affecting him deeply, he would definately feel difference when taking and not taking those pills.
He had/have prostatitis, he is much more sensitive (than me) to small changes.
Hope it will help you.

 

[plymouth city]

Brand quality can differ drastically when taking anything herbal.

I do not mess around with supplement companies. I go with either Biotest, Carlsons or the LEF people, nobody else. I do like to play lab rat and try new things, like this newest experiement with Dermacrine Sustain.

 

[plymouth city]

Quick update - Im am still using the Dermacrine Sustain, however the primordialperformance people are sending me a new product, a newer more potent version of Sustain, the Beta version, that is a megodose of Resveratrol and Benzoflavone 7,8, no chrysin. Im excited.

Anyone ever apply this stuff at night? Ive been doing a second application, one pump, at 8-9pm, on my balls for a little late night boost. No probs with sleep.

 

[plymouth city]

Quick update - Everything is running smooth, there is no doubt Im already feeling a little more aggressive. Im also loving using a second, one pump application at night, on balls. Maybe I just like the rubbing on balls part . No, Im kidding. It seems to give a nice "bridge" into the night.

Couple things Ive learned - Product is very liquidy. Cup your hand when pumping. I do not like spray trigger, takes way to long. Use pump. Quickly, and I mean quickly, spread product thin over large area and it will dry in under 1 minute. For balls, keep hand cupped. I spread over whole area. Im quickly getting this thing down speed wise, application is now taking me less than 2 minutes

 

[hardasnails1973]

Quick update - Everything is running smooth, there is no doubt Im already feeling a little more aggressive. Im also loving using a second, one pump application at night, on balls. Maybe I just like the rubbing on balls part . No, Im kidding. It seems to give a nice "bridge" into the night.

Couple things Ive learned - Product is very liquidy. Cup your hand when pumping. I do not like spray trigger, takes way to long. Use pump. Quickly, and I mean quickly, spread product thin over large area and it will dry in under 1 minute. For balls, keep hand cupped. I spread over whole area. Im quickly getting this thing down speed wise, application is now taking me less than 2 minutes

Wheres a girl when you need one night ..they are never around when they need to be :blink:

 

[plymouth city]

Wheres a girl when you need one night ..they are never around when they need to be :blink:

Ive learned the best way to get anything done is to do it yourself :thumbsup:

 

[plymouth city]

Im 6 days in with the original Sustain, and I have noticed, without a doubt, I feel more aggressive. Quick to respond to things, to think and act/talk.

Im fully taking advantage to the fact that the genital region has 3 times the absorbtion rate than the rest of the body. I use my balls and penis. [)]

I suspect that one could really really stretch out a bottle for months with this type of application.

Since you are limited with application area down there, I like the ideal of twice daily app. Like one could potentially use 2 pumps a day, both on genitalsm once in morning and once in evening.

I was hesitant at first about trying the original Dermacrine because of acne issues. I had it bad as a teenager, and wrestling and BJJ only made it worse. With sky high DHT, DHEA, E2 and TT, I used to break out alot, not anymore now that I understand how to defeat acne. However, with the whole app to the genital region, I want to try the original, small dose. I was thinking 1 pump Derm on balls in morning and one pump sustain on chest, then one more sustian pump on balls in evening.

Everyone who has PM'ed me has pretty much the same complaint - its to expensive. Well I think I have helped solved this problem for ya. You could easily stretch the bottle out for months at a time, expecially consiering you spend equal time OFF of Derm as you do on. (2 or 4 weeks on, equal time off)

 

[plymouth city]

Any IGF-1 experts here? My level is 130(126 - 350)

My back and muscles pretty much ache alot. My energy level is give and take. I wonder if this is an IGF-1 issue.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Any IGF-1 experts here? My level is 130(126 - 350)

My back and muscles pretty much ache alot. My energy level is give and take. I wonder if this is an IGF-1 issue.

GH levels are hard to measure. A person can have high igf-1 and also low GH levels so there are other factors that needs to be measured. Proper way to really measure gh levels is with a GHRH stimulation test very costly but will rule out it for sure !! Elevated shbg can be refelctice of low gh out put as well..

 

[plymouth city]

GH levels are hard to measure. A person can have high igf-1 and also low GH levels so there are other factors that needs to be measured. Proper way to really measure gh levels is with a GHRH stimulation test very costly but will rule out it for sure !! Elevated shbg can be refelctice of low gh out put as well..

Nails,

I think your right about SHBG as well.

I did not have SHBG tested in my long Quest BW.....However, guess what - My E2 was elevated at 43 and FT was low at 18.9. Low FT and high E2, I got 20 - 1 odds on bets that says my SHBG is elevated.

I have read stuff about guys getting E2 under control and having IGF numbers go up. I would really like that to happen, and if I can avoid shooting GH for another 20 years that would be great LOL.

Is GH therapy suppressive? I would like to try it if it is not. This way Im not stuck with it forever.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Nails,

I think your right about SHBG as well.

I did not have SHBG tested in my long Quest BW.....However, guess what - My E2 was elevated at 43 and FT was low at 18.9. Low FT and high E2, I got 20 - 1 odds on bets that says my SHBG is elevated.

I have read stuff about guys getting E2 under control and having IGF numbers go up. I would really like that to happen, and if I can avoid shooting GH for another 20 years that would be great LOL.

Is GH therapy suppressive? I would like to try it if it is not. This way Im not stuck with it forever.

I notice if my dhea levels drop my igf-1 levels also dip down to when I was on 2 injections a week I think this may be a better route to go then every 3 day due to increase aromatase due to the 1/2 inch injections due you concur? MY strength in gym is insane and people are really starting to answer questions, but its my body compsotion that is suffering (thick skin, bloat, indegetion and gain in body fat in stomach and ass) If my shbg is higher would one need more e2 then to compensate for possible creating an e2 defieciny. If I can only get thsi shbg down it will solve alot of problems !! I did notice my compostion was much better on 2 shots pre week coudl this be possible to the increase aromatase in the skin , but can 2-3 extra shots a month make that much of a difference really?


When you receive exogenous test, your LH production is going to drop due to feedback through the HPTA (and as a consequence your nuts will shrink). However LH levels have a direct effect on the activity of the P450 side chain cleavage enzyme which is converts cholesterol into preg. This is almost certainly why your preg is low. Without going into details, Preg is a very important hormone because it serves as precursor to several major hormonal pathways. The problem of low preg can be dealt with using small regular HCG injections (HCG being an LH analogue). Not surprisingly people who take HCG as a regular part of their HRT report very good subjective benefits.

Dealing with hypogonadism with test alone is almost prehistoric. Some things get fixed but a whole bunch of others get screwed up.

BTW, your scores for most of your tests are going to vary quite a bit depending on when in your injection cycle you were sampled. Ideally you want to look at results just before injection and 24-36 hours after.

 

[plymouth city]

I notice if my dhea levels drop my igf-1 levels also dip down to when I was on 2 injections a week I think this may be a better route to go then every 3 day due to increase aromatase due to the 1/2 inch injections due you concur? MY strength in gym is insane and people are really starting to answer questions, but its my body compsotion that is suffering (thick skin, bloat, indegetion and gain in body fat in stomach and ass) If my shbg is higher would one need more e2 then to compensate for possible creating an e2 defieciny. If I can only get thsi shbg down it will solve alot of problems !! I did notice my compostion was much better on 2 shots pre week coudl this be possible to the increase aromatase in the skin , but can 2-3 extra shots a month make that much of a difference really?


When you receive exogenous test, your LH production is going to drop due to feedback through the HPTA (and as a consequence your nuts will shrink). However LH levels have a direct effect on the activity of the P450 side chain cleavage enzyme which is converts cholesterol into preg. This is almost certainly why your preg is low. Without going into details, Preg is a very important hormone because it serves as precursor to several major hormonal pathways. The problem of low preg can be dealt with using small regular HCG injections (HCG being an LH analogue). Not surprisingly people who take HCG as a regular part of their HRT report very good subjective benefits.

Dealing with hypogonadism with test alone is almost prehistoric. Some things get fixed but a whole bunch of others get screwed up.

BTW, your scores for most of your tests are going to vary quite a bit depending on when in your injection cycle you were sampled. Ideally you want to look at results just before injection and 24-36 hours after.

I honestly don't think there is going to be much of a difference between EOD and E3D. I would opt for E3D because it is easier - less injects comparing 15 injects a month to 10.

High T and High E2 is symptomatic of what you are describing. I have heard from several who were on TRT that said pretty much the same thing - they had very powerfull androgenic responses(the strength/aggression) and had bloating, nipple, and all those E2 issues combined.

Yes, it is very possible and in fact does happen to have High T and High E2 symptoms at the same time. Ksman was one, there were quite a few others I have spoken to that did as well.

Also keep note that IGF numbers will vary +- 50 points per test. Time of day is irrelevant. One would ideally want to be 8 hours fasted though and hydrated.

I have been dragging alot lately. I have a feeling my initial BW with quest is more indictive of my overall being than the second BW I got done that was at an in house lab.

 

[plymouth city]

Hey everyone, Sustain definitely gives one a nice little bump in day to day tasks.

I wish product was a little more thick. A little less liquid.

No doubt it gives you a boost in energy levels. I don't find myself fading out towards the late PM like usual.


Got BW a little while ago.

Overall great experience.

One thing I would like to note is that I was able to try both versions of Sustain, the original with chrysin(which Im still on) and the newer beta version without chrysin but more resveratrol.

Flat out, honestly, I like the chrysin version better. I seem to respond to chrysin well

 

[wildfox]

Hey everyone, Sustain definitely gives one a nice little bump in day to day tasks.

I wish product was a little more thick. A little less liquid.

No doubt it gives you a boost in energy levels. I don't find myself fading out towards the late PM like usual.


Got BW a little while ago.

Labcorp is notoriously slow so I will post up results when they finally get here.

Overall great experience.

One thing I would like to note is that I was able to try both versions of Sustain, the original with chrysin(which Im still on) and the newer beta version without chrysin but more resveratrol.

Flat out, honestly, I like the chrysin version better. I seem to respond to chrysin well

Thanks for the reports!

 

[JanSz]

Hey everyone, Sustain definitely gives one a nice little bump in day to day tasks.

I wish product was a little more thick. A little less liquid.

No doubt it gives you a boost in energy levels. I don't find myself fading out towards the late PM like usual.


Got BW a little while ago.

Labcorp is notoriously slow so I will post up results when they finally get here.

Overall great experience.

One thing I would like to note is that I was able to try both versions of Sustain, the original with chrysin(which Im still on) and the newer beta version without chrysin but more resveratrol.

Flat out, honestly, I like the chrysin version better. I seem to respond to chrysin well

What is your SHBG

 

[plymouth city]

What is your SHBG

JansZ,
Have no idea. Never had it tested.

Given E2 = 43, one might assume it is on the higher side.

Maybe thats why I like chrysin so much.

 

[RPHMark]

Plymouth,
I'm behind on reading this, but do you still roll? I've been in BJJ about 1 year now and love it. My slow workout gains and joint pain are actually what spurred me to check my Testosterone after a few months of working out.

 

[JanSz]

Plymouth,
I'm behind on reading this, but do you still roll? I've been in BJJ about 1 year now and love it. My slow workout gains and joint pain are actually what spurred me to check my Testosterone after a few months of working out.

Unless it is personal,

with out code work or unknown abreviations please.

 

[Champ50]

Unless it is personal,

with out code work or unknown abreviations please.

JanSz to "roll" is equivelant to sparring in boxing

BJJ= Brazilian Ju Jitsu- a form of martial arts involving grappling, chokes and joint locks

He was just asking if Plymouth still practiced his Brazilian Ju Jitsu

 

[RPHMark]

Unless it is personal,

with out code work or unknown abreviations please.

Sorry JanSz, forgot this would sound foreign to most people. Like he said, BJJ is a martial art centered around chokes and joint locks using leverage rather than brute strength (though that brute strength sure helps if you have it) allowing a smaller man to control a larger man if done right. It's tough but certainly a good workout and good motivator to work harder.

 

[plymouth city]

Sorry JanSz, forgot this would sound foreign to most people. Like he said, BJJ is a martial art centered around chokes and joint locks using leverage rather than brute strength (though that brute strength sure helps if you have it) allowing a smaller man to control a larger man if done right. It's tough but certainly a good workout and good motivator to work harder.

Yo!

I was a brazilian jujitsu tournament champ when it first hit the map 10 years ago. Steamrolled threw the 1st ever Gracie JuJitsu Tourney in Cali and won it, and was awarded my bluebelt within the first 3 months I started. I was just a teenager at the time - I used to train 2 times a day 5 days a week.

I trained with a ton of pretty well known MMA guys. I loved BJJ. Unfortunately, I also had some pretty bad acne problems that BJJ made much, much worse. I quit rolling regularily for a long time. I would have probably been pretty dam good.

For self defense reasons and for the love of it, I still roll from time to time, probably a couple times a month. Thats all my skin can handle before I break right out again. Sucks. Oh well. :whiner:

 

[RPHMark]

Yo!

I was a brazilian jujitsu tournament champ when it first hit the map 10 years ago. Steamrolled threw the 1st ever Gracie JuJitsu Tourney in Cali and won it, and was awarded my bluebelt within the first 3 months I started. I was just a teenager at the time - I used to train 2 times a day 5 days a week.

I trained with a ton of pretty well known MMA guys. I loved BJJ. Unfortunately, I also had some pretty bad acne problems that BJJ made much, much worse. I quit rolling regularily for a long time. I would have probably been pretty dam good.

For self defense reasons and for the love of it, I still roll from time to time, probably a couple times a month. Thats all my skin can handle before I break right out again. Sucks. Oh well. :whiner:

That really sucks. I can see how BJJ would make that awful or it would make BJJ a real pain. I get body acne now and never used to. I really give BJJ credit for motivating me to get into shape and drop 60 pounds and get back to weights and cardio. That's when I also realized just how bad I had been feeling and got the hormones checked. I'm no phenom, but I love BJJ, working toward my blue this summer.

 

[plymouth city]

. I get body acne now and never used to. .

Do you think that is HRT related? Or from BJJ

 

[RPHMark]

Probably some of both, but if I happen to miss a couple of days of BJJ it is definetly better. I'm guessing it has something to do with sweat + all of the friction on your back and shoulders.

 

[plymouth city]

Probably some of both, but if I happen to miss a couple of days of BJJ it is definetly better. I'm guessing it has something to do with sweat + all of the friction on your back and shoulders.

Yep. That gi did hell on my upper back/shoulders. Plus I lived and breathed the guard, it was my forte. Unpassable

Being about 145lbs you can bet thats where I spent all my time.

 

[plymouth city]

Good thread on resveratrol

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/74000-resveratrol-really-cheap.html

 

[plymouth city]

PM I recieved, thought It would benefit others/ Note to others, feel free to post questions you have on anything here.

"Thanks for getting back to me. So I take it you like the Dermacrine more than the Dermacrine Sustain? It is something you'd cycle by going back and forth between the two?

I should have been more clear and say that I am not interested in HRT at the moment. Last time I checked, by TT was right around 600 so I now that although not perfect, things are still working (as opposed to say TT at 300-400). At the time my diet was a mess, I was a little fatter, and was under a ton of stress. I've been working hard on changing all of those things, mostly by cleaning up my diet.

I just want to get the BW so that I can get a handle on where I am hormonally. This will give me a point of reference for the future after I begin to tinker with natural things. My intent is to maximize whatever I can get out of natural ways to optimize hormones.

Do you still use DIM+TMG? I've been taking a fair amount of DIM in two weeks (Nature's Way) and have had occassional morning wood since I've started with that. How much TMG should I be taking with the DIM?

I bought some Biotest Rez-V on your recommendation, but haven't used it yet since I'm waiting to give the DIM more time. Do you think it would be better to go with Dermacrine/Dermacrine Sustain rather than Rez-V for resveratrol? I guess what I'm wondering is what you think would be the ultimate stack for natural hormonal optimization.

My diet sounds a lot like yours. Basically I have a bowl of oatmeal most mornings, eggs, raw cheese, a cup or two of raw milk/kefir, some fruit, raw beef, bone broths, butter, and coconut oil most days. I supplement with 1 tbs. of high-vitamin cod liver oil. I also eat fish 2-3 times a week. I think that this kind of diet has to be the foundation for whatever you want to do hormonally. The other stuff (DIM/resveratrol) won't do much without this foundation IMO. I've had this in place for awhile, so now I'm looking to use natural things to take it to the next level.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the above."


One must cycle Dermacrine. Remember, it is a prohormone, and like any other prohormone(or actual hormone like T) it will eventually cause HTPA shutdown if not cycled.

Sustain can be used indefinitely.

I like to cycle 2 weeks on/off. Use sustain in between

I also like to go a week or so of a break from using everything. Take resveratrol oral caps and my other stuff, no transdermal, nice break.

You definitely need to get BW to see where you stand.

Remember diet is of the utmost importance. The body needs protein and fat to produce T. Excess carb intake will desensitize testes into making less T.

I stopped DIM + TMG. I like resveratrol much better, and its much cheaper as well.

I think transdermal route for resveratrol to me much better than oral - although oral is still effective. I like to cycle between the two as oral form is easier - its a nice break.

I love Biotest but their RSV is a little pricey - I now use RevGenetics or Country Life(I order from better health foods)

 

[EIC]

One must cycle Dermacrine. Remember, it is a prohormone, and like any other prohormone(or actual hormone like T) it will eventually cause HTPA shutdown if not cycled.

Sustain can be used indefinitely.

I like to cycle 2 weeks on/off. Use sustain in between

I also like to go a week or so of a break from using everything. Take resveratrol oral caps and my other stuff, no transdermal, nice break.

So maybe 2 weeks Dermacrine, 2 weeks Sustain, 1 week oral resveratrol? Rinse and repeat?

Remember diet is of the utmost importance. The body needs protein and fat to produce T. Excess carb intake will desensitize testes into making less T.

No problem there. I limit carbs to around 72 g/day if not less. Balance of the diet is butter, coconut products, meat, cheese, eggs, etc. All grass-fed/pastured and often raw (at least in the case of dairy, red meat, and eggs).

I stopped DIM + TMG. I like resveratrol much better, and its much cheaper as well.

It sounds like ditching the DIM is a financial consideration. If I remember correctly you are currently a student. Fortunately my school days have long since passed. Would you recommend DIM in addition to the res. if someone had the financial means?

I love Biotest but their RSV is a little pricey - I now use RevGenetics or Country Life(I order from better health foods)

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into that.

 

[plymouth city]

So maybe 2 weeks Dermacrine, 2 weeks Sustain, 1 week oral resveratrol? Rinse and repeat?

Thats similar to what Im doing - Im doing 3 weeks Derm, 2 weeks sustain, 1 week break(oral RSV) rinse and repeat

No problem there. I limit carbs to around 72 g/day if not less. Balance of the diet is butter, coconut products, meat, cheese, eggs, etc. All grass-fed/pastured and often raw (at least in the case of dairy, red meat, and eggs).

Aw man you are right on man. I LOVE raw meats man, yum. I do alot of fruit/protein powder combos, and I also do carrot juice/frozen veggie blends as well. This has been a lifesaver - Buying bags of frozen veggies from the grocery. They are already cleaned up and cut up. Simply open bag and dump into blender, or dump into sautee pan and cook.

It sounds like ditching the DIM is a financial consideration. If I remember correctly you are currently a student. Fortunately my school days have long since passed. Would you recommend DIM in addition to the res. if someone had the financial means?

Yea sure, DIM is a decent product, Im just trying to balance out cost versus effectiveness(LOL remember Im in business school) I find RSV to be of better effectivness and less price. However, if costs weren't an issue I would use DIM as well.

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into that.

In red :food:

 

[plymouth city]

From engival
"My diet sounds a lot like yours. Basically I have a bowl of oatmeal most mornings, eggs, raw cheese, a cup or two of raw milk/kefir, some fruit, raw beef, bone broths, butter, and coconut oil most days. I supplement with 1 tbs. of high-vitamin cod liver oil. I also eat fish 2-3 times a week.


is that your diet?

is that a healthy diet to follow?


do you drink coffee or alcohool?"

Very similar - I eat all those things, except the raw milk, only because I cannot get raw milk. I would drink it if I could.

You can't forget fruits and veggies. I would say that make sure its 2 veggies for every fruit. I probably eat 8 - 10 servings of veggies a day and maybe 5 or 6 of fruit.

This sounds like alot - but its really not. I buy it all prepachaged and wahsed and cut - so I either dump in veggie mixes and blend em up with carrot juice or I sautee them with meats/chicken. With fruits, some i eat raw/fresh, most are frozen and dumped in protiein and banana shakes.

I do not drink alcohol.

Coffee is my lovely vice, my last mistress. I just cannot give up my morning cup o joe. Its a 12 ounce cup every day.

My oncology all came back as excellent on this diet FYI. I have no problem with my weight except for the fact that i actually HAVE to consume extra mass quantities of peanut butter just to hold weight.

 

[RPHMark]

Plymouth,
I made that transition from the coffee seductress with green tea and never really had any problem. I now have one or two cups of green tea daily. I do miss my coffee some, but after reading some info on cofee raising cortisol levels I felt it was time. Of course, I stll have the occasional cup, just not every AM.

 

[BigAk]

, but after reading some info on cofee raising cortisol levels I felt it was time. .

Sorry but.... What's wrong with coffee raising cortisol levels again???

Do you mean this will cause adrenal fatigue in the long run???

 

[RPHMark]

I have a fairly high stress career, so I worry about cortisol levels anyway. Of course adrenal fatigue or all that goes with higher corisol levels (higher blood sugar, increased fat storage, trouble sleeping) don't appeal to me much.

 

[plymouth city]

Sorry but.... What's wrong with coffee raising cortisol levels again???

Do you mean this will cause adrenal fatigue in the long run???

Yes it will. It will eventually cause adrenal fatigue and supress DHEA functioning, and I suspect T3/T4 numbers as well.

I will eventually quit the coffee. Its one thing at a time.

 

[plymouth city]

Plymouth,
I made that transition from the coffee seductress with green tea and never really had any problem. I now have one or two cups of green tea daily. I do miss my coffee some, but after reading some info on cofee raising cortisol levels I felt it was time. Of course, I stll have the occasional cup, just not every AM.

Yea, thats probably the route I will take.

In due time

This coffee and Tea shop by my house has some VERY good pomegranate tea. :clap2:

 

[plymouth city]

Question from Hardasnails

"Would you go with that monster or deramcrine since my dhea is undectable in urine depsite taking 50 mgs of dhea a day and pregenlone creame but my serum was 308 (97-390) question is what range should i use the 390 or the typical 620. for some reason quest lowered it (like they do stuff as usually.) did you see quest lowered there free T to 150 top end vs the 210 mark ..I swear they do not want people to feel normal..Eric told me no matter if hypothyroid or not the dermacrine would get i nthere now with my e2 of 75 I'm doing .60 mgs armidex a week. Alos read tha hcg can lower zinc levels due to increase progesterone which can increase zinc uptake and actually cause aromatze to go up. I got that stinky smell on me again (AKA e2 going up ) and also white spots on fingernails that where not there before. How much zinc would I need to take I know T levels increase zinc up take so I heard about 70-80 would be good as it may possible lower e2 levels down."

The reason quest may be lowering their ranges might have to do with the fact that they have better testing methods now and can accurately test something under better circumstances.

DHEA blood vs urine - hmmm. Thats a tough question. My gut assumption is that urines are a better marker. I think dermacrine would be a great boost to run right along side T injects. It would do the trick. I have seen some BW that showed DHEA-S numbers 3 times over limit. So we know it works. Since yourt already on HRT, I would suggest a lower dose maintentance dose, maybe start off full dose(35 sprays) first 3 weeks to get everything in system, then back off to 10 sprays as a maintenance dose to stick with.

Im not sure about zinc - I take 30mg per day. I think its ability as an AI is very limited and wouldn't suggest it for such purposes - its real majic is supporting T and boosting immune response.

I dualy noted your 4 and 16 hydroxy estrogens. Ewwww man. That was uglier than any drunken fat sorority girl I have ever had the displeasure of remembering the next day

 

[Joejoebaggins]

Remember diet is of the utmost importance. The body needs protein and fat to produce T. Excess carb intake will desensitize testes into making less T.

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm

Here is an excerpt from that Meso article about dieting macros and T production.

Remember, it is the bioactive fraction of total T that is important. This fraction consists of fT and albumin-bound T. Fasting suppresses T production and small amounts of either PRO or CHO do not reverse the suppression. Diets with a PRO intake greater than the CHO intake lower total T levels, and may actually decrease the bioactivity of T in the body. Higher CHO diets (70% or more from CHOs) may increase T levels, but they also affect the metabolism of T as well. While the role of fat is not entirely clear, saturated fat and cholesterol are closely linked to higher levels of T and PUFAs have some modifying role.

If you're hypothyroid and are on a low carb diet you might want to think twice about it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1249190&dopt=AbstractPlus

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=371281

Basically, they show that the drop in T3 levels during TOTAL STARVATION are nearly equal to the drop in T3 levels in a hypocaloric diet that was without carbohydrates. You can completely starve or drop your carbohydrates to achieve virtually the same drop in T3 levels. Even at weight maintenance, simply replacing fat calories with carbohydrates causes T3 levels to rise.

 

[EIC]

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm

Here is an excerpt from that Meso article about dieting macros and T production.



If you're hypothyroid and are on a low carb diet you might want to think twice about it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1249190&dopt=AbstractPlus

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=371281

Basically, they show that the drop in T3 levels during TOTAL STARVATION are nearly equal to the drop in T3 levels in a hypocaloric diet that was without carbohydrates. You can completely starve or drop your carbohydrates to achieve virtually the same drop in T3 levels. Even at weight maintenance, simply replacing fat calories with carbohydrates causes T3 levels to rise.

Couple things. First, T3 is one of several hormones on the catabolic side of the hormone-balance scale. Along with T4 and corticosteriods, these hormones balance and oppose the anabolic hormones, namely sex hormones, growth hormone, and insulin. When insulin decreases, other hormones have to adjust to maintain balance. This can come from an increase in the other anabolic hormones (i.e., testosterone and/or growth hormone), a decrease in the catabolic hormones (i.e., cortisol), or, more likely, a combination of the two.

We know that such balancing processes are at work when we see that testosterone therapy is often a fantastic treatment for high blood sugar. A rise in testosterone leads to a decrease in insulin; it stands to reason that the opposite is true as well.

Additionally, it is not clear exactly what the diets of these zero-carb individuals looked like. When one reduces carbohydrates to nothing, there will be some lag time before the body shifts to ketosis. This is a difficult thing for the body to do and may well lead to a decrease in net hormones across the board. In other words, the balance of the anabolic and catabolic hormones remains the same, but the amounts decrease in proportion. I'd be interested in seeing what happens if the diet contains a reduction in carbohydrates along with a huge increase in saturated fats (i.e., butter, coconut oil, and animal fat), which are known to increase thyroid function (coconut oil in particular). I can almost guarantee that those researches did not replace the carb calories with saturated fats.

Finally, no one is suggesting that you drop to 0 carbs. A far more realistic goal is something between 50 and 100 grams; more particularly, a lot of good comes from reducing to 72 grams or so.