Picsss...did I take anything?
- Thread starter LifterBR
- Start date
RepThat21
Member
ill agree, its up there.btw man you look exactly the same.
LifterBR
New member
that was what I would like to know, if people see difference in before/after pics...but as nobody likes the joke...I did H-drol (first cycle) for 5 weeks (still finishing) and gone up 14lbs by now. thanks.
PS.: Was looking for size, not worried about gaining some fat, since I`ll start cutting next month.
PS.: Was looking for size, not worried about gaining some fat, since I`ll start cutting next month.
WhatsaRoid?
Board Sponsor
You do Hdrol to cut up lol not to bulk and thats why you look the same.
You may also need help with your diet and training as there is no diff from the pics muscle wise so next time take flexed shots as well.
You may also need help with your diet and training as there is no diff from the pics muscle wise so next time take flexed shots as well.
LifterBR
New member
Yeah, I know...but I read a lot of logs of good gains while on h-drol, and that was the compound I was recomended to, since it`s my first cycle...will try to take more pics...I don`t see BIG differences, but I do see larger arms (comparing 2nd and 5th pics - and I gone up 2cm on biceps) and shoulders. I was focused on legs (which I don`t have before pics, but they all grew well, except for the calves =/ ) and chest (saw no big difference...put some muscle, but not as much as I wanted).
WhatsaRoid?
Board Sponsor
Yea but lets stop focusing on size of upper body since you focused on legs...lets turn and fix that diet and training then get you on some basics to build that frame before you cycle again. Trust me I looked like I did a cycle before I did one because I did the basics and put the time in the gym. You can do the same with our help and your hard effort I promise.
suresha
Well-known member
true indeed. "wise words spoken by a wise man" you know the motto-
LEARN-TEACH-LEAD
LifterBR
New member
I do read a lot about dieting...but I assume I should have done better while on cycle (my diet was shlt...my GF wanted to go out to dinner every weekend and even some days of the week)...I`m way more educated when single...maybe it`s the need for looking better haha...joking.
I`ll try to keep the muscle I got and get my BF back to where it was middle 2009, about 13%..after that I had to stop working out 2 months (december/january), and got back about 10lb heavier (pure fat, obviously)...then I decided to go with h-drol and put some muscle before cutting out all that fat...my mistake I guess...
I`ll try to keep the muscle I got and get my BF back to where it was middle 2009, about 13%..after that I had to stop working out 2 months (december/january), and got back about 10lb heavier (pure fat, obviously)...then I decided to go with h-drol and put some muscle before cutting out all that fat...my mistake I guess...
flightposite
Board Sponsor
shoulders and arms look alittle bigger between the two pics bro. i say go ahead and finish off the cycle i mean you already done 5wks may aswell do your 6th week and kill it. good luck.
soontobbeast
Well-known member
definitely look leaner in the stomach area
slacker86
Active member
u wated virgin receptors on that????
Alright man finish up the cycle. You need to go learn about dieting particuarly bulking vs maintenance vs cutting. U need to learn ur carb and protein needs. You need to stop eating out and if u are drinking u need to stop all alcohol consumption. Secondly go look up DC training, GVT, Starting Strength, 5X5, HIITs, circuit training, and all the benefits and drawbacks of each. Do every single one until u find one that particuarly stimulates ur muscle growth. Explore different exercises till you find what works for you, just cause a big guy does it doesnt mean it will work for you.
And serously take at least a year off from anabolics, dont waste ur time until u learn ur diet and training and get your discipline down. You really have a lot to learn and that is evident by your starting pics, not that there is anything wrong with how you look for a beginner pic but that is not where you should be when playing with steroids.
Ur pics defintely changed from starting to ending if thats what your asking.
Hang around the boards some more and learn some more it will help you greatly.
Alright man finish up the cycle. You need to go learn about dieting particuarly bulking vs maintenance vs cutting. U need to learn ur carb and protein needs. You need to stop eating out and if u are drinking u need to stop all alcohol consumption. Secondly go look up DC training, GVT, Starting Strength, 5X5, HIITs, circuit training, and all the benefits and drawbacks of each. Do every single one until u find one that particuarly stimulates ur muscle growth. Explore different exercises till you find what works for you, just cause a big guy does it doesnt mean it will work for you.
And serously take at least a year off from anabolics, dont waste ur time until u learn ur diet and training and get your discipline down. You really have a lot to learn and that is evident by your starting pics, not that there is anything wrong with how you look for a beginner pic but that is not where you should be when playing with steroids.
Ur pics defintely changed from starting to ending if thats what your asking.
Hang around the boards some more and learn some more it will help you greatly.
LifterBR
New member
I just don`t understand why my cycle is being considered by most as a mistake...
1 - I put +14lb (bf stayed about the same...as many say h-drol doesn`t retain water, and considering the improvements bellow, I would assume most of it is lean muscle)
2 - All my measures gone up (+2,5cm - about 0,98 inches - on biceps, for example)
3 - All my lifts gone up
I read logs of people running much harsher compounds, gaining 10lb, and comments like "woww, impressive"...
Honestly, I don`t know what should I expect for this cycle...after hundreds of logs I read, I assumed my run on H-Drol was quite successfull due to size and weight gains compared.
1 - I put +14lb (bf stayed about the same...as many say h-drol doesn`t retain water, and considering the improvements bellow, I would assume most of it is lean muscle)
2 - All my measures gone up (+2,5cm - about 0,98 inches - on biceps, for example)
3 - All my lifts gone up
I read logs of people running much harsher compounds, gaining 10lb, and comments like "woww, impressive"...
Honestly, I don`t know what should I expect for this cycle...after hundreds of logs I read, I assumed my run on H-Drol was quite successfull due to size and weight gains compared.
manicstudio
New member
Look like a waste of money if you asked me...never done a cycle b4 but why not get the basis of ur mass naturally...atleast get up to 215 by any means naturally milk eating like crazy then take ur cycle to gain a lil more mass and also lean out without losing ur previous size...atleast that's what I gathered from AM...im@ 265 and wanna hit 275 solid naturally b4 I do a cycle...am I'm right more experienced AM vets???
AnthonyIOSOS
Active member
On the 2nd picture are you in an elevator?
Lou villian
Member
Man i gained 15lbs on a 6 week hdrol run including PCT and i leaned out incredibly. Your diet must be garbage to say the least. Dont take it personal but the first cycle is always the best and to be honest you look the same maybe a little leaner in the lower stomach. You should have dialed in your diet first for a solid 3 months, then looked into a PH like Hdrol. The results would be nite and day as far as looks are concerned.
In all honesty it was a wasted cycle. You never do a Bulk or a Cut run without having your diet in check. My guess is your 20%BF+ maybe mid 20's. Hope your PCT is well thought out and really focus on your diet and the results next time will be STELLAR!!
In all honesty it was a wasted cycle. You never do a Bulk or a Cut run without having your diet in check. My guess is your 20%BF+ maybe mid 20's. Hope your PCT is well thought out and really focus on your diet and the results next time will be STELLAR!!
LifterBR
New member
Yeah, but major part of logs I read are from people who actually are like me (weight, size, etc)...btw, I would dare to say less than 30% of AM users are over 200lb...anyway, I thought I was ready due to hitting a plateau on size and weight. But thanks for your opinion. Anyway, I don`t think I "learned the hard way", because I had good gains (in my view) and no sides, but I`m sure paying attention for what people like you are saying here and getting motivated for gaining some size naturally from now on...I still have lots of PHs stocked up, but will deff wait at least a year before planning on using any of them.
Lou villian
Member
Not that people are bashing you but it wasn't done properly and this usually leads to unsuccessful runs and tends to give PH's bad reps. Just learn from it. Focus on your diet. Trust me diet is the hardest thing you will ever do. Once you get it tweeked stick with it for about 3 months then embark on another run.
LifterBR
New member
As I said before, my major gains were on legs, but (at least for me), almost 1in. increase on arms isn`t that bad at all...am I wrong? All my expectatives where based on logs I`ve been reading for about 6 months, so that`s why I`m kind of satisfied with the results.
My diet was in check for the first 10 days, then my GF screwed it, then only in the beggining of the 4th week I got it in check again. I guess I`m about 20% or so, will now try to get back to where I was end of last year (picture in my profile), which I guess was about 14%. And maintain the gains. My PCT will be RAVE RV1 + Lean Dreams (3rd week) and maybe Nolva (will decide at the end of the cycle, in 8 days).
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Alright you guys covered the diet stuff. So i will come in just to comment on the photo in an elevator. Did you go, omg a mirror on the wall, what a good time to take off my shirt and take a pic?
Lou villian
Member
Rep'ed!!
mngli
New member
Omg just noticed that as well, way to funny, that would be so awkward if the door opened and a bunch of kids and theirs parents or some good looking girl was standing there while you have your shirt off snapping pics. As far as gains, I see a lil growth in your traps as well.
LifterBR
New member
I understand perfectly...and as I said, I don`t think the results where "frustrating", so there`s no need for me to blame PHs! I do feel it`s in my body, it`s increasing my measures and strenght, and do know that if it wasn`t better, it was ALL my fault!
LifterBR
New member
Yeah, I`m in my home`s (tower, don`t know how to say that) elevator...haha...don`t have a big mirror in my apartment.
Btw, I wanted to mention before I noticed gains in my traps, just didn`t know the word for that...haha
Lou villian
Member
Just get that diet together and i would bet by the end of your PCT you will look alot better. Just remember your Virgin receptors are now sluts and the next Hdrol run wont be as "Potent" as the next. Thats why people are saying that. Get it together then look at the pics man. Thats when youll see the big picture!
LifterBR
New member
haha..no, that`s because my mirror is too small, can`t take a nice pic on it, so I was alone in the elevator and took the photo...hahah...
Lou villian
Member
I think Ur awesome just on the elevator picture alone! Def. a first!! Would have loved to be the person standing there as the door opens and your shirts on the floor and the flash goes off
LifterBR
New member
I got it...will cut out the fat to where I was 6 months ago and see if I`m able to maintain the gains I made.
slacker86
Active member
We arent saying the steroids didnt work or there isnt a noticable change, the majority of us are saying that you used them too early too really benefit from their use. The idea is that (if you are just in a hobby or being an am bodybuilder) that you start using steroids once u have hit your genetic maximum to carry muscle. 1,2,3 are all just ok for now, what you have to do is keep track of this throughout pct and the months after the cycle.
Cause on cycle gains are easy to lose if pct is not thorough enough, your diet is crappy, and you dont train properly. When someone says i gained 10lbs total its generally meant after PCT in most logs i have read. And for someone who it takes over a year to gain 5lbs of muscle (and im not exaggerating this is what we mean by maximum genetic level of muscle mass), and he gains 10lbs within a 2month period that is awesome and impressive.
Your cycle wasnt a failure im assuming u did this to put on some size and to just run a cycle, it gave u some decent results and thats fine. But remember ur cycle isnt over till over a month past PCT you have ur hormones to get back to homeostasis and you should be VERY strict if you want to keep the gains you have made during this cycle.
LifterBR
New member
Yeah, that`s why I`m getting my diet back in check, to maintain the maximum gains I can.
I guess it`s kind of cultural...there in the US you guys have more sources for dieting and more knowledge to know the moment for running a cycle. Here is way different...I`m not saying I`m big or anything (as I obviously know I`m not), but you don`t often see guys of my "size" that haven`t run cycles here. And I`m talking about M-drol and X-tren! (that`s all people know here in Brazil). So I made the mistake to think I was ready for it...my fault.
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
The US is actually notorious for having inferior food health concerns. Most countries, and I can't speak for Brazil, have the ability to obtain whole foods easier then artificial **** we must dodge here.
stankyleg
Well-known member
Here's the deal bro. I dont know why everyone's hatin on you. You definitely gained some muscle. Shoulders, traps and pecs are bigger. You do need to focus on your diet. You probably could have done that in longer time with no drugs. Bear down and get serious on training and diet before you ingest drugs again. You need to max out your genetic potential before you screw with your endocrine system. You gained a lot from Hdrol. But you need to use compounds that will yield results that you are after. If you didnt care about leaning out, use Epi or something. Hdrol is a recomp drug. Good luck and hard work bro
LifterBR
New member
I meant supplements-wise, sorry. I do eat cleaner than most, I guess. I don`t eat fast food, don`t drink soda, eat lots of whole grains, fruits, vegetables, all that healthy stuff, beucause I do like to. But it`s hard, if not impossible, to get a high protein intake and lower carbs/fats just from natty meals, without supplementation.
LifterBR
New member
At the beggining recomp was really my objective..adding some muscle while losing bf. But, as I said, my diet screwed up later on the cycle...I thought stopping in almost on the 2nd week would be a bigger mistake than trying to bulk on H-drol. So that`s what I headed for. I do have Epi with me. I chose the H-Drol due to MPB. But deff will try the Epi someday. And thanks for the support! Will do my best to reach another level.
soontobbeast
Well-known member
A. there is no rationale that sufficiently defends the stance that one ''should reach their maximum genetic potential'' before delving into PHs/AAS. some of us don't want to be 300lbs, but rather a good size and BF% for one's own satisfaction.
it MAY be the rationale for a competitive body builder who wants to look like arnold or ronnie coleman, but for 85% of normal (non-sponsored) folk, it doesn't logically hold up. for my height, i'd like to be 175-185lbs at 8% BF, and I would be MORE than satisfied for that to be my end game results. really depends on what you want and how fast.
Lets say for ****s and giggles PHs DID bottle neck you and those 15lbs you gained are taken away from your total max potential weight because you didnt wait till you 'maxed out'. what 'max' weight does that put you at ? only 250 instead of 275lbs? lol!
B. he is not 20% or mid 20s in BF%. i would say 16% MAX.
it MAY be the rationale for a competitive body builder who wants to look like arnold or ronnie coleman, but for 85% of normal (non-sponsored) folk, it doesn't logically hold up. for my height, i'd like to be 175-185lbs at 8% BF, and I would be MORE than satisfied for that to be my end game results. really depends on what you want and how fast.
Lets say for ****s and giggles PHs DID bottle neck you and those 15lbs you gained are taken away from your total max potential weight because you didnt wait till you 'maxed out'. what 'max' weight does that put you at ? only 250 instead of 275lbs? lol!
B. he is not 20% or mid 20s in BF%. i would say 16% MAX.
slacker86
Active member
A the rational being that if u want to use steroids you should have diet and training down pretty good before putting your health at risk. If you have diet and training down well then attaining your genetic set point level is not that hard. If you are under your genetic level then having decent size and a good bf% is all diet and training you dont need steroids, in fact it would be a waste to just take them cause if u dont have the diet and training the results u do get will be mediocre to start with and u will probably **** it up once you go back to a bad diet or not training well.
And the advice to wait for your genetic set point to be attained shows that you are ready to take the next step cause logically there is no other step you can take. And it is good for people who do it recreationally or for am bodybuilding,
If you want to be arnold or any top IFBB pro u start using steroids in your teens, u blast and cruise and never come off. If you want to be a top pro you cant come off steroids at all. No pro runs cycles, they have at least test in their system when they are "off".
And where did u get this bottle neck equation from? no one said his max genetic level has changed, he has ruined good receptors on a cycle that wasnt needed to achieve results that where not that good. (no offense im just stating it doesnt look like u took steroids at all). He will have to wait about a year minimum for them to really be primed again to be responsive as they have been. Your max weight doesnt change from doing a cycle idk where u got that from cause thats just a load of crap.
B its impossible to tell by pic if u dont have visible abs ur at least 13%.
slacker86
Active member
i mean does it make sense to you that he should just keep doing var/hdrol/epi/clen cycles till he gets a low enough bf to get abs and be a little more cut up or does it make more sense to clean up the diet and get training down and save all the money and damage to the HPTA and liver?
Jhawth
New member
Personally, I'd guess that maybe 3% of PH users are -actually- at their max natural potential before their first time using.
That's an entirely different concept from being able to make gains naturally. Max natural potential could take a LONG time to reach. People want shortcuts. Roids... are fantastic shortcuts, even more so when you have diet and training down. Sure, if you don't know how to train and eat, you're in trouble. But if you've got two or three years under your belt, even though you might be able to gain another 20 pounds naturally over the course of another two years months, why should that person wait versus pack on 20-30 pounds in two solid cycles over 10 months?
That's an entirely different concept from being able to make gains naturally. Max natural potential could take a LONG time to reach. People want shortcuts. Roids... are fantastic shortcuts, even more so when you have diet and training down. Sure, if you don't know how to train and eat, you're in trouble. But if you've got two or three years under your belt, even though you might be able to gain another 20 pounds naturally over the course of another two years months, why should that person wait versus pack on 20-30 pounds in two solid cycles over 10 months?
slacker86
Active member
Im not going to disagree with u about the 3% being at their max level, i will however say that in general if you cant gain naturally while still under your max potential then there is something wrong with either the diet training sleep or some other variable. To take steroids and truly gain all you can from them takes a lot of discipline, i mean if u slack off on ur diet and training while on steroids do you really think u will benefit that greatly from being on?
The point about bringing up multiple cycles in a year to add it quickly is true and thats why the majority of people use them, however the main reason people use steroids is that they cant grow anymore naturally. You should exhaust all other options before using steroids/phs whatever u wanna call them they are drugs. And like every drug there is a benefit to risk ratio, if the 20lbs in 2 cycles is what u want that comes at a price, chances are if ur taking orals ur going to run into problems with cholesterol, liver toxicity, blood pressure, ability at sex or libido, possible kidney problems, impotence, inability to re-establish the HPTA that you previousl had, hair loss, hair growth, testicular atrophe, increased aggression, back pumps, gyno, acne, and there is always the possibility that PCT just may not work for you and hormone replacement therapy will be the only option, thus making the possibility of having children much more difficult. Not to mention the money and legal factors involved. Not to mention that if you didnt get pre-cycle blood work (which no one who uses PH's ever does, and i dont know why) and find out that maybe something isnt right in the first place steroids can arrgivate the situation.
If you want to take steroids you need to know what you are getting into all the possible side effects and how to either prevent, combat or address them pre-during-and post cycle.
I dont know why people are so lax with this stuff there is too much talk about how steroids arent that bad for health when compared to things like meth, which is true, however these things arent healthy in any shape form or way and if abused enough will cause problems. In general using steroids becomes a lifestyle as well, if you use steroids chances are u dont smoke, u dont drink alcohol, u get perfect sleep and nutrtion and ur life revolves around training. If it doesnt then why screw with something potentially so dangerous?
My main point is that people do not treat these drugs with the respect required to run them in a safe enough manner to not cause severe health problems immediately, i dont think its a shock to anyone saying that steroid useage is not conducive to health and most likely will take time off you life, thats a given.
The point about bringing up multiple cycles in a year to add it quickly is true and thats why the majority of people use them, however the main reason people use steroids is that they cant grow anymore naturally. You should exhaust all other options before using steroids/phs whatever u wanna call them they are drugs. And like every drug there is a benefit to risk ratio, if the 20lbs in 2 cycles is what u want that comes at a price, chances are if ur taking orals ur going to run into problems with cholesterol, liver toxicity, blood pressure, ability at sex or libido, possible kidney problems, impotence, inability to re-establish the HPTA that you previousl had, hair loss, hair growth, testicular atrophe, increased aggression, back pumps, gyno, acne, and there is always the possibility that PCT just may not work for you and hormone replacement therapy will be the only option, thus making the possibility of having children much more difficult. Not to mention the money and legal factors involved. Not to mention that if you didnt get pre-cycle blood work (which no one who uses PH's ever does, and i dont know why) and find out that maybe something isnt right in the first place steroids can arrgivate the situation.
If you want to take steroids you need to know what you are getting into all the possible side effects and how to either prevent, combat or address them pre-during-and post cycle.
I dont know why people are so lax with this stuff there is too much talk about how steroids arent that bad for health when compared to things like meth, which is true, however these things arent healthy in any shape form or way and if abused enough will cause problems. In general using steroids becomes a lifestyle as well, if you use steroids chances are u dont smoke, u dont drink alcohol, u get perfect sleep and nutrtion and ur life revolves around training. If it doesnt then why screw with something potentially so dangerous?
My main point is that people do not treat these drugs with the respect required to run them in a safe enough manner to not cause severe health problems immediately, i dont think its a shock to anyone saying that steroid useage is not conducive to health and most likely will take time off you life, thats a given.
RepThat21
Member
id agree that waiting until you are geneticaly tapped out isnt completely necessary and very few people actually do, but personally id like to at least be somewhat close or at least be in good shape before i put my health at risk.if i were the OP i would have gotten tight on diet and trainging until i got to "where i was before in my profile pic" where hes in better shape, then thought about doing a cycle.to me it seems like a waste to put on 14 pounds but still be at 20% body fat unless hes in strongman competitions or something.
Sanitob
New member
Can anyone please post a good diet for HDrol or link me to a good thread. I'm about to start mine soon and am woried i'll make the same mistakes and waste my virgin receptors. 
I know all about eating clean but I guess what im unclear about is do I focus on upping calories or keeping my protein at 1.5 per every pound of body weight (ideally). Thanx
I know all about eating clean but I guess what im unclear about is do I focus on upping calories or keeping my protein at 1.5 per every pound of body weight (ideally). Thanx
HereToStudy
Primordial Performance Rep
Can anyone please post a good diet for HDrol or link me to a good thread. I'm about to start mine soon and am woried i'll make the same mistakes and waste my virgin receptors.
Sorry but this posts in itself states you are not ready for the hdrol.
soontobbeast
Well-known member
did you read that sentence? I made a joke that Phs bottle neck you because thats usually the argument that is used when in favor of waiting for your max potential - otherwise, there really isn't one.
also what does this mean?
''And the advice to wait for your genetic set point to be attained shows that you are ready to take the next step cause logically there is no other step you can take.''
Alot of people that use steroids [strictly] use steroids because you attain supra-physiological gains in muscle mass and fat loss in faster time. so, it only makes logical sense [to use steroids] to get from point A to point B quicker.
example : jimmy thinks ''if i take a steroid [ say anavar ] i can get lean by summer while also maintaining all of my mass and even build a little''
OR i can diet for twice as long and lose at least a little bit of muscle.
the above example is why steroids are awesome.
slacker86
Active member
''And the advice to wait for your genetic set point to be attained shows that you are ready to take the next step cause logically there is no other step you can take.''
The reasoning behind that statement is if u can train naturally and diet and train in a manner in which gives ur body good results to the point that you can get close to your genetic set point level, then u know enough about diet and training to take the next step towards steroids..
It would be retarded to start taking steroids when u havent already tried the programs know how ur body responds to different reps sets contraction types eccentric concentric isometric, then get on juice and just do what some big guy does cause thats what you see him doing in the gym. And if u dont know how your macro nutrients have to stack when ur bulking or cutting, the steroid isnt going to pick up the slack... Muscles arent made out of hormones, hormones only signal the muscles to grow, there needs to be adequate substrates (glycogen, protein and some fats) to actually allow the muscle to grow....
Steroids should always be the last resort cause if u dont know **** about diet and training they arent going to do a ****ing thing that couldnt be done with the correct knowlege naturally.
The reasoning behind that statement is if u can train naturally and diet and train in a manner in which gives ur body good results to the point that you can get close to your genetic set point level, then u know enough about diet and training to take the next step towards steroids..
It would be retarded to start taking steroids when u havent already tried the programs know how ur body responds to different reps sets contraction types eccentric concentric isometric, then get on juice and just do what some big guy does cause thats what you see him doing in the gym. And if u dont know how your macro nutrients have to stack when ur bulking or cutting, the steroid isnt going to pick up the slack... Muscles arent made out of hormones, hormones only signal the muscles to grow, there needs to be adequate substrates (glycogen, protein and some fats) to actually allow the muscle to grow....
Steroids should always be the last resort cause if u dont know **** about diet and training they arent going to do a ****ing thing that couldnt be done with the correct knowlege naturally.
soontobbeast
Well-known member
so its impossible to know your **** about diet and not be at your max potential? that's a rhetorical question. obviously you can know your **** and not be at your max potential.
even knowing everything, it still takes a long time to build size. that is why there are guys that have been lifting for years and years and are still gaining naturally. look at pro fighters, personal trainers, and athletes. they decide what weight and size they want to be. its not a matter of max potential. even knowing everything, it still takes a long time to build size.
steroids only EXPEDITE the process.
this is why i don't understand why YOU DONT UNDERSTAND my one and only point : with steroids and a good diet you will gain better than no steroids and a good diet. so people use steroids! why is that so complex?!
so to summarize : i agree you should have your diet on track before you delve into steroid use , for several reasons. but the amount of mass you gained naturally shouldn't have anything to do with the equation.
even knowing everything, it still takes a long time to build size. that is why there are guys that have been lifting for years and years and are still gaining naturally. look at pro fighters, personal trainers, and athletes. they decide what weight and size they want to be. its not a matter of max potential. even knowing everything, it still takes a long time to build size.
steroids only EXPEDITE the process.
this is why i don't understand why YOU DONT UNDERSTAND my one and only point : with steroids and a good diet you will gain better than no steroids and a good diet. so people use steroids! why is that so complex?!
so to summarize : i agree you should have your diet on track before you delve into steroid use , for several reasons. but the amount of mass you gained naturally shouldn't have anything to do with the equation.
spezzy
Member
Your girlfriend didn't screw your diet.
1st step to change is taking responsibility and really realizing you made a mistake. This goes for habits and life aspects in general.
You should have run clen with a good diet before you cycled. I see a difference but it would have been way better. As others have said, good luck and get the diet in check.