No i have not tried the 17-HD just kinda trying different things out right now of which ones i like better.... I totally agree with the suggestion lol hahah.... i just didnt follow it but after this cycle im going to cut down to about 230lbs and then build back up to 250 or so... im at 265 right now.... so far tho ive dropped 8% body fat in about a 8 weeks or so... but then again i was a bigger guy and it was not to hard to drop the fat....