Pick my orals...

[saderboy80]

Anyone have anymore advice on HCG protocols, peptides and injectable L-Carnitine?

 

[saderboy80]

Well, I plan on running LCLT, L dopa (also can upregulate AR), and take Follidrone on cycle (for myostatin reduction). I believe it's worth it, even if it's a small improvement.

I ordered some LCLT. I was curious to know if you have ever experimented with injectable L-Carnitine?

Apparently even LCLT isn’t very bioavailable orally.

 

[ValiantThor08]

I ordered some LCLT. I was curious to know if you have ever experimented with injectable L-Carnitine?

Apparently even LCLT isn’t very bioavailable orally.

I have thought about looking into the injectable L carnitine.

 

[saderboy80]

I have thought about looking into the injectable L carnitine.

Seems like it would be worth it. Fat loss and increase in androgen receptor density. Only problem is you have to pin it daily.

 

[CroLifter]

I know what HCG is and what it does. Just didn’t know the proper protocol for it. It was recommended that I inject 250iu every other day with slin pins and subQ during the whole cycle

Yes you have given a lot of solid advice and are looking out for my health. Which I do appreciate, so I don’t mean to argue with you. It just grinds my gears when people tell me to fix my training or talk about my sleep (as if I haven’t done everything possible to maximize my sleep).

What other injectable would you u recommend alongside 500mg/week test E and the orals?

Previously I had asked about EQ or NPP but was given advice not to run them. What do you think then? Maybe some primo or masteron?

As far as the sustanon goes I like that it has the 2 shorter esters. So it would be in my system and working before the test E starts to shine. Yeah I realize peak levels of test E are around 24hrs but last time I ran test e it took a couple of weeks to feel anything.

Like I’ve said on other threads, I am just trying to learn and meticulously plan out my cycles to maximize the results. Hence why I ask so many questions.

Imo you are focusing on the drugs way too much. Even test only at 500 is great for putting on mass.

For cutting like i said, high "TRT" test plus gh or peptides.

In most cases its the total mg's that will determine the amount of results, except for maybe stuff like tren or sd which are so much more powerful than others.

So just pick whatever you handle well and what doesnt give you tons of sides.

Diet will determine the outcome of the cycle.

 

[saderboy80]

Imo you are focusing on the drugs way too much. Even test only at 500 is great for putting on mass.

For cutting like i said, high "TRT" test plus gh or peptides.

In most cases its the total mg's that will determine the amount of results, except for maybe stuff like tren or sd which are so much more powerful than others.

So just pick whatever you handle well and what doesnt give you tons of sides.

Diet will determine the outcome of the cycle.

Well Jinsun’s recommendation was to add another injectable. So I was just inquiring about what his thoughts were.

I realize this thread I’ve been asking a lot of questions on drugs but like I’ve said I’m just trying to meticulously plan this cycle.

Yes, in my opinion diet is more important then training or drugs. So I’m with you 100% on that one.

 

[Jinsun]

Yeah, just test imo isnt enough for a Recomp. And if you are getting shutdown, then make the best use of it. Just doing test is not doing that.

 

[saderboy80]

Yeah, just test imo isnt enough for a Recomp. And if you are getting shutdown, then make the best use of it. Just doing test is not doing that.

Do you have any other recommendations for injectables?

 

[CroLifter]

300mg test e a week
12.5 mg mk677 a day
2iu gh a day

There you go, run this for 12 weeks and i guaranfukintee you that you will recomp, provided that you train hard and keep your calories at maintenance or just slightly above.

Now stop being a philosopher and go and train, thats the only way you are going to get results!

Just pick sth and go do it.

 

[Jinsun]

300mg test e a week
12.5 mg mk677 a day
2iu gh a day

There you go, run this for 12 weeks and i guaranfukintee you that you will recomp, provided that you train hard and keep your calories at maintenance or just slightly above.

Now stop being a philosopher and go and train, thats the only way you are going to get results!

Just pick sth and go do it.

That's really not a recomp cycle at all. That's a cutting cycle. For recomp you'd need to include more androgens. One that excel at nutrient partitioning. Primo, DHB, var, SD, tren. I don't know if you've done such recomp cycles. From my experience, doing just 500 test, for instance, doesn't really recomp that much. Again, he will start from 15% bf or more and want's to come down to 10%. That's a lot of body fat to lose, even on cut, yet alone a recomp! This is why I'm saying his aas and training protocol isn't locked in yet. And you are still recommending such small dosages.

 

[Jinsun]

Do you have any other recommendations for injectables?

No. Primo or DHB or Mast - mast being the least favorable but it does contribute to nutrient partitioning, so it's better then nothing. Not much to choose from anyway.

Here is my final recommendation (and regarding hcg, what I wrote is the studied dosage and protocol, you wont get better advice then that):

- Use peptides to cut from your current bf% down to where you start seeing a 6 pack. Peptides are cjc dac at 60mcg/kg/week and ipamorelin 300 - 500 mcg at night and in the morning. If you do fasted cardio after dosing ipamorelin, you'll really improve your weight loss. Buy a GDA like SNS Glycophase. That will help with nutrient partitioning and with any insulin resistance that might occur with peps.

- When you are down to 12 - 14 %bf, go on a recomp aas cycle. This should include a main "cutting compound" that is not an oral, but something that is present in your blood serum at a high and steady concentration throughout the whole cycle. Like I've said above, it should be a DHT derivative: Primo, DHB or Mast (EQ would be a choice if you b/c not cycled). Tren would be I choice if you were more stable with sleep and you b/c. Primo should be 600 - 1000, DHB 400+, mast 600 - 800. These are effective dosages for a recomp. And are complimented with test 250 - 500. Now, you do have M1T, which is in a sense DHB, not quite, but similar and you have var which is also a good recomp drug. Now in my opinion and in my experience, just var and test is a recomp cycle but it wont be "that" strong. And M1T, I personally don't have experience with it, I know it's really watery, but it should be good at recomping. The problem is you have a two week pause where you are just using test. And then you are going on two orals again. The two orals are good for what you want to do.

Do not use mk677 for cutting/recomp, as it's a fair chance that you'll end up bulking. You can keep the cjcdac for the aas cycle, if you can afford it.

The moral of the story, cut as much as you can before you start the recomp cycle if you plan on doing it with low mid dosages. And secondly, recomp needs higher dosages. Also, I would ditch the sust, but if you already have it, use it. And if you plan on not having a second inject, then up the dosage of test. Also beware that epistane really dries out your joints.

Test E has a peak time of 10 - 12 hours. Sure you feel it fully at week 3 - 4, but that's the DHT conversion and glycogen build up that you feel. Just test is doing it's job since day one.

 

[CroLifter]

Ok i give up.

 

[saderboy80]

300mg test e a week
12.5 mg mk677 a day
2iu gh a day

There you go, run this for 12 weeks and i guaranfukintee you that you will recomp, provided that you train hard and keep your calories at maintenance or just slightly above.

Now stop being a philosopher and go and train, thats the only way you are going to get results!

Just pick sth and go do it.

Yeah I agree, I think I’ve just been too focused on the drugs. I’m just trying to learn from more experienced users.

 

[saderboy80]

Ok i give up.

No, your recommendations have been very helpful. Like you said I just need to train my ass off and keep up the cardio. Probably even bump it up to 45min x6/week to burn off this extra fat I gained during quarantine and being injured.

 

[saderboy80]

No. Primo or DHB or Mast - mast being the least favorable but it does contribute to nutrient partitioning, so it's better then nothing. Not much to choose from anyway.

Here is my final recommendation (and regarding hcg, what I wrote is the studied dosage and protocol, you wont get better advice then that):

- Use peptides to cut from your current bf% down to where you start seeing a 6 pack. Peptides are cjc dac at 60mcg/kg/week and ipamorelin 300 - 500 mcg at night and in the morning. If you do fasted cardio after dosing ipamorelin, you'll really improve your weight loss. Buy a GDA like SNS Glycophase. That will help with nutrient partitioning and with any insulin resistance that might occur with peps.

- When you are down to 12 - 14 %bf, go on a recomp aas cycle. This should include a main "cutting compound" that is not an oral, but something that is present in your blood serum at a high and steady concentration throughout the whole cycle. Like I've said above, it should be a DHT derivative: Primo, DHB or Mast (EQ would be a choice if you b/c not cycled). Tren would be I choice if you were more stable with sleep and you b/c. Primo should be 600 - 1000, DHB 400+, mast 600 - 800. These are effective dosages for a recomp. And are complimented with test 250 - 500. Now, you do have M1T, which is in a sense DHB, not quite, but similar and you have var which is also a good recomp drug. Now in my opinion and in my experience, just var and test is a recomp cycle but it wont be "that" strong. And M1T, I personally don't have experience with it, I know it's really watery, but it should be good at recomping. The problem is you have a two week pause where you are just using test. And then you are going on two orals again. The two orals are good for what you want to do.

Do not use mk677 for cutting/recomp, as it's a fair chance that you'll end up bulking. You can keep the cjcdac for the aas cycle, if you can afford it.

The moral of the story, cut as much as you can before you start the recomp cycle if you plan on doing it with low mid dosages. And secondly, recomp needs higher dosages. Also, I would ditch the sust, but if you already have it, use it. And if you plan on not having a second inject, then up the dosage of test. Also beware that epistane really dries out your joints.

Test E has a peak time of 10 - 12 hours. Sure you feel it fully at week 3 - 4, but that's the DHT conversion and glycogen build up that you feel. Just test is doing it's job since day one.

All very good advice. Thank-you!

 

[CroLifter]

No, your recommendations have been very helpful. Like you said I just need to train my ass off and keep up the cardio. Probably even bump it up to 45min x6/week to burn off this extra fat I gained during quarantine and being injured.

Remember that you dont want to get in a large deficit if you wanna recomp. Maintenance calories is finem with gh and mk you are going to lose fat for sure.

I just think that you will feel better with less drugs in your system, be more productive when it comes to your training and sleep.

 

[saderboy80]

Remember that you dont want to get in a large deficit if you wanna recomp. Maintenance calories is finem with gh and mk you are going to lose fat for sure.

I just think that you will feel better with less drugs in your system, be more productive when it comes to your training and sleep.

I mean considering this will be my 3rd injectable cycle I think 500 mg of test is pretty good spot to sit at.

I’ll be using MK but no GH, considering some peptides for fat loss before starting my cycle.

With regards to training, I’m going to train a few weeks with nothing in my system and gauge how my pec is doing.

As we’ve talked about I don’t get much sleep (3-4hrs a night) and I’ve really maximized everything I can do to increase that. So I’ll be utilizing other methods of recovery (mk677, intra workout shake, solid whole food diet with high protein, high fiber, carbs only before and during workout, stretching and foam rolling constantly). Unless I hit a plateau, in which case I’ll up the carbs.

 

[CroLifter]

I mean considering this will be my 3rd injectable cycle I think 500 mg of test is pretty good spot to sit at.

I’ll be using MK but no GH, considering some peptides for fat loss before starting my cycle.

With regards to training, I’m going to train a few weeks with nothing in my system and gauge how my pec is doing.

As we’ve talked about I don’t get much sleep (3-4hrs a night) and I’ve really maximized everything I can do to increase that. So I’ll be utilizing other methods of recovery (mk677, intra workout shake, solid whole food diet with high protein, high fiber, carbs only before and during workout, stretching and foam rolling constantly). Unless I hit a plateau, in which case I’ll up the carbs.

Ah, insomniac, i get it. I was one as a teenager. Wouldnt sleep at all for 2 nights, then would sleep fine for 1 night, and then wouldnt again for 2 nights.

still i managed to train bjj + gym, i dont know how but i managed


But i was lucky, 3mg melatonin caps helped me.

 

[saderboy80]

Ah, insomniac, i get it. I was one as a teenager. Wouldnt sleep at all for 2 nights, then would sleep fine for 1 night, and then wouldnt again for 2 nights.

still i managed to train bjj + gym, i dont know how but i managed


But i was lucky, 3mg melatonin caps helped me.

Yeah I discussed it in another thread, but I’m on several medications for sleep.

 

[LCSULLA]

If you got HCG I'd blast like 750-1000 iu eod while the test is clearing then start your serm. After some trial and error over the years I think HCG is the most important part of pct

I agree 100% that HCG is the most important part of recovery. I have used it the way you’re suggesting and I think that running throughout would be a better option for most people. Why try and wrangle that horse back into the barn when you can just gate him up from the get go?

 

[LCSULLA]

Anyone have anymore advice on HCG protocols, peptides and injectable L-Carnitine?

I would use HCG throughout your cycle. There is something disconcerting about your nuts retreating into your body as the weeks roll by. I used 250 twice a week and it worked well: balls where hanging low and full the entire time.
Peptides need more specific information, like what peptides are thinking of?
And injectable L-carnitine fucking hurt...worse then prop for me.

 

[saderboy80]

I would use HCG throughout your cycle. There is something disconcerting about your nuts retreating into your body as the weeks roll by. I used 250 twice a week and it worked well: balls where hanging low and full the entire time.
Peptides need more specific information, like what peptides are thinking of?
And injectable L-carnitine fucking hurt...worse then prop for me.

Peptides to aid in burning fat.

I think modgrf and ghrp2 were suggested earlier .
I already am taking my-677.

 

[Smont]

Peptides to aid in burning fat.

I think modgrf and ghrp2 were suggested earlier .
I already am taking my-677.

Just my opinion, the fat burning effects of peptides are very, very, minimal, same for mk677. I think there more well suited for a little kick towards muscle growth, healing and increasing appetite depending on the peptides chosen. Injectable l-carn is seeming more useful then people think. I was really looking into it the past year or 2 and forgot all about it. It should really help everything you take and do work slightly better. Diet, training, cardio, even your gear.

 

[CroLifter]

I would use HCG throughout your cycle. There is something disconcerting about your nuts retreating into your body as the weeks roll by. I used 250 twice a week and it worked well: balls where hanging low and full the entire time.
Peptides need more specific information, like what peptides are thinking of?
And injectable L-carnitine fucking hurt...worse then prop for me.

The only problem with using hcg throughout is that it complicates estrogen control.

It stimulates aromatization like a mfer, i got lumps from running 100mg of test with hcg, alongside some mk677

On this cycle, 250 test, up to 105 tren a and mk677, i had 0 nipple issues, because i didnt use hcg


I think if you are running short cycles like me <6 weeks its good enough to just use some at the end.

If you are running long blast / cruise phases i would use it intermittently.

 

[saderboy80]

Just my opinion, the fat burning effects of peptides are very, very, minimal, same for mk677. I think there more well suited for a little kick towards muscle growth, healing and increasing appetite depending on the peptides chosen. Injectable l-carn is seeming more useful then people think. I was really looking into it the past year or 2 and forgot all about it. It should really help everything you take and do work slightly better. Diet, training, cardio, even your gear.

Yeah maybe I’ll leave out the peptides this cycle. Save them for another cycle when I know more about them.

 

[saderboy80]

The only problem with using hcg throughout is that it complicates estrogen control.

It stimulates aromatization like a mfer, i got lumps from running 100mg of test with hcg, alongside some mk677

On this cycle, 250 test, up to 105 tren a and mk677, i had 0 nipple issues, because i didnt use hcg


I think if you are running short cycles like me
If you are running long blast / cruise phases i would use it intermittently.

Yeah I definitely do not want to risk any more aromatization. In previous cycles I’ve definitely had some estrogen side effects.

I have arimidex, nolva, clomid and prami on hand.

I’m running sporadic cycles once to twice a year. I’m not on TRT, so no blast and cruise for me.

 

[saderboy80]

Anyone know if M1T has any nutrient partitioning effects. Like superdrol soaks up all the carbs.

 

[saderboy80]

Still preparing for this cycle.

Quick question for anyone still following this...how long after your first test E dose did you begin to notice the effects? That be good or bad. Basically when will I know if the test is good to go or bunk?

With dosing 250mg x2/week.

 

[Whisky]

Still preparing for this cycle.

Quick question for anyone still following this...how long after your first test E dose did you begin to notice the effects? That be good or bad. Basically when will I know if the test is good to go or bunk?

With dosing 250mg x2/week.

test is rarely bunk unless you’ve got a really ropey source. Under dosed yeah but normally it’s at least test. I normally start to feel it about 10-12 days in but physically it’s effects start to play about week 4 generally imo.

I mainly use test for the feel good factor though

 

[saderboy80]

test is rarely bunk unless you’ve got a really ropey source. Under dosed yeah but normally it’s at least test. I normally start to feel it about 10-12 days in but physically it’s effects start to play about week 4 generally imo.

I mainly use test for the feel good factor though

I believe I’ve got a good source, it was recommended to me by another avid participant on AM.

Okay, that’s kinda what I thought 14-21 days. Too bad it doesn’t hit sooner then that though. But that’s the logic behind an oral kickstarter.

 

[Smont]

Still preparing for this cycle.

Quick question for anyone still following this...how long after your first test E dose did you begin to notice the effects? That be good or bad. Basically when will I know if the test is good to go or bunk?

With dosing 250mg x2/week.

If your test is bunk then everything you bought from that source will be bunk. Test is probably the least likely thing to be bunk. As far as feel it, no1 can really answer that because some ppl "feel" it and some dont, some get water retention and some dont, some ppl dont even get a boost in there sexdrive. But if you haven't noticed some solid progress after 4-5 weeks in strength or putting on a couple pounds then either its bunk or your not trying. Especially if you haven't been on anything in a while. If I'm off or cruising and go back to 300-600mg then somewhere around week 5 I notice my strength has drastically increased

 

[saderboy80]

If your test is bunk then everything you bought from that source will be bunk. Test is probably the least likely thing to be bunk. As far as feel it, no1 can really answer that because some ppl "feel" it and some dont, some get water retention and some dont, some ppl dont even get a boost in there sexdrive. But if you haven't noticed some solid progress after 4-5 weeks in strength or putting on a couple pounds then either its bunk or your not trying. Especially if you haven't been on anything in a while. If I'm off or cruising and go back to 300-600mg then somewhere around week 5 I notice my strength has drastically increased

Yeah that’s fair to say that it’s user and dose dependent. I just thought I’d ask and get some feedback.

I only bought the test and anavar from this source. My M1T and epistane are from other sources that I’ve had good results with.

 

[Smont]

Yeah that’s fair to say that it’s user and dose dependent. I just thought I’d ask and get some feedback.

I only bought the test and anavar from this source. My M1T and epistane are from other sources that I’ve had good results with.

Weeks 5-10 I notice the most, that's why I like long cycles, but I know guys that that start getting results right away too and stall out 6 weeks in. If I was like those guys I'd just run short ester 6 week cycles and be way happier, the late weeks of my cycles when I'm noticing progress I'm usually burnt out from meal prepping and making sure I dont miss my pins or skip any gym days. But then again I'm making some progress now on trt 150mg with nothing else. So maybe I wasn't trying hard enough before? Who knows. I just know its always around week 5 when I notice that sets and reps are getting easier

 

[saderboy80]

Weeks 5-10 I notice the most, that's why I like long cycles, but I know guys that that start getting results right away too and stall out 6 weeks in. If I was like those guys I'd just run short ester 6 week cycles and be way happier, the late weeks of my cycles when I'm noticing progress I'm usually burnt out from meal prepping and making sure I dont miss my pins or skip any gym days. But then again I'm making some progress now on trt 150mg with nothing else. So maybe I wasn't trying hard enough before? Who knows. I just know its always around week 5 when I notice that sets and reps are getting easier

Thanks for the reply. I’ll be running 12 weeks and kickstarting with M1T for 4 weeks, then off orals for weeks 5-8, epistane and anavar to finish.

Weeks 5-8 if I start to stall out, I may got some follidrone and see if it really upregulates androgen receptors.

Nice work making gains on TRT!

 

[Smont]

Thanks for the reply. I’ll be running 12 weeks and kickstarting with M1T for 4 weeks, then off orals for weeks 5-8, epistane and anavar to finish.

Weeks 5-8 if I start to stall out, I may got some follidrone and see if it really upregulates androgen receptors.

Nice work making gains on TRT!
[/QUOTE
It's easy to make progress when you eat like **** and get really out of shape first lol. I dirty bulked to 223 while chasing a bench pr. Then cut to 195 to get my abs back. I managed to keep my arms the same size and add some delt size while dropping almost 30lbs. Still not back to my old self but I'm getting closer

 

[Smont]

Lesson learned, no more all out dirty bulking for me.

 

[Smont]

Took 3+ months to loose 6-8 weeks of dirty bulk disaster

 

[saderboy80]

Looking good in the second photo though!

I let myself go during the quarantine, lost some muscle mass, lost a lot of strength and gained some fat.

Trying to lose some weight now and get the strength back up before starting this thing.

 

[saderboy80]

Took 3+ months to loose 6-8 weeks of dirty bulk disaster

Yeah definitely not trying to go that route. I’m thinking it will be a clean slow bulk. Then dial up the cardio and eat at maintenance for a recomp/slow cut. Then all out cut after the cycle.

 

[Smont]

Looking good in the second photo though!

I let myself go during the quarantine, lost some muscle mass, lost a lot of strength and gained some fat.

Trying to lose some weight now and get the strength back up before starting this thing.

I'm not one of these keto advocates, I prefer high carb low fat, especially on cycle. But spending a week or 2 on a keto type diet right before a bulk can be very productive, drop a little fat, correct some insulin sensitivity issues, burn out your glycogen stores. It's like a mini primer for a bulk. Unfortunately I'm usually too lazy and carb loving to practice what I'm preaching

 

[Smont]

Yeah definitely not trying to go that route. I’m thinking it will be a clean slow bulk. Then dial up the cardio and eat at maintenance for a recomp/slow cut. Then all out cut after the cycle.

Your body likes homeostasis, the main goal after a cycle should be spending a couple months holding onto or adding to the muscle you gained. If you gain 5lbs of muscle and start cutting I'd bet my house that the muscle is going to be the first thing to go. Like standing the rhino says, you gotta earn them gains and make em stick

 

[Smont]

Stan* fluckin auto correct

 

[CroLifter]

I'm not one of these keto advocates, I prefer high carb low fat, especially on cycle. But spending a week or 2 on a keto type diet right before a bulk can be very productive, drop a little fat, correct some insulin sensitivity issues, burn out your glycogen stores. It's like a mini primer for a bulk. Unfortunately I'm usually too lazy and carb loving to practice what I'm preaching

Couldnt agree more with everything said here

 

[saderboy80]

Couldnt agree more with everything said here

This is basically what I’m doing in preparation for the cycle. Not keto necessarily but my only carbs are preworkout and intraworkout. The other meals are protein and vegetables (which yes have carbs).

Along with 30min cardio I’ve slowly been getting back on the weights. Tomorrow I will sort of feel out my pec with a light chest workout.

 

[saderboy80]

Your body likes homeostasis, the main goal after a cycle should be spending a couple months holding onto or adding to the muscle you gained. If you gain 5lbs of muscle and start cutting I'd bet my house that the muscle is going to be the first thing to go. Like standing the rhino says, you gotta earn them gains and make em stick

Yeah, okay that makes sense.

 

[Smont]

This is basically what I’m doing in preparation for the cycle. Not keto necessarily but my only carbs are preworkout and intraworkout. The other meals are protein and vegetables (which yes have carbs).

Along with 30min cardio I’ve slowly been getting back on the weights. Tomorrow I will sort of feel out my pec with a light chest workout.

Take your time and make sure your feeling healed and primed for some gains. I have wasted plenty of cycles because I was hurt and reinjured myself and cut it short, or was too fat in the beginning and still trying to bulk then half way through switched to a cut and just ended up with minor progress.

In the past year I have reinjured or got a new injury at least 5 times. It sucks, especially in the middle of a cycle

 

[saderboy80]

Take your time and make sure your feeling healed and primed for some gains. I have wasted plenty of cycles because I was hurt and reinjured myself and cut it short, or was too fat in the beginning and still trying to bulk then half way through switched to a cut and just ended up with minor progress.

In the past year I have reinjured or got a new injury at least 5 times. It sucks, especially in the middle of a cycle

Yeah that’s good advice, I appreciate it. I definitely won’t be going for any 1 RM’s this cycle. That’s how I hurt my pec in the first place.

There was no pain while doing pressing movements on shoulders today. Tomorrow I’m going to start with some good warmup/active stretching, pushups, light flies and if those go well I’ll try my luck at benching 95lbs and move up slowly etc...

Before the injury I was pressing 285lbs for 1 RM.

 

[saderboy80]

@Smont @CroLifter

Do you guys think I should cut out more carbs then I already have?

 

[saderboy80]

@Smont @CroLifter

Do you guys think I should cut out more carbs then I already have?

 

[CroLifter]

@Smont @CroLifter

Do you guys think I should cut out more carbs then I already have?

I am personally a fan high carb low fat diets. But, as @Smont said, doing a short "priming" cycle of keto for like 10-14 days before cycle is going to set you up for better gains.