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PH's without serm

Dazl1212

Member
In peoples opinions what prohormones would be ok without a serm? I.E OTC PCT I dont see the point in doing something you can order in a shop then you have to go sneaking around to use a serm after:frustrate. As far as i can tell AMS 1-ad, 4-ad and 11-oxo seem to be the only ones that would be ok. Any others I could consider?
 
Dazl1212 said:
In peoples opinions what prohormones would be ok without a serm? I.E OTC PCT I dont see the point in doing something you can order in a shop then you have to go sneaking around to use a serm after:frustrate. As far as i can tell AMS 1-ad, 4-ad and 11-oxo seem to be the only ones that would be ok. Any others I could consider?
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there's quite a few around here that have suggested not using SERM's at all. i am not one of those, but for them it seems to work fine. hdrol, epi are a few that i might consider not running a SERM with, but SD PP and things like that no way. it's not just because of the gyno factor, it's the whole "being shut down" thing that i want to address
 
3AD/11oxo/Bold/Hdrol are the main ones I'd consider going no serm for.

Havoc is 50/50 and is really up to the user, though I'd go with a SERM just incase...
 
Cheers it seems to be the ones that were mentioned im gonna try 11 oxo first them maybe one of the above thanks guys
 
Dazl1212 said:
In peoples opinions what prohormones would be ok without a serm? I.E OTC PCT I dont see the point in doing something you can order in a shop then you have to go sneaking around to use a serm after:frustrate. As far as i can tell AMS 1-ad, 4-ad and 11-oxo seem to be the only ones that would be ok. Any others I could consider?
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I have used Hdrol, Epi, and ProMagnon all with OTC PCT. No problems at all. I agree that the Epi is 50/50, but I had no problem with otc pct. Others I would not do.
 
i would say bold, 11-oxo, furazadrol, h-drol (maybe to 75mgs)/hemadrol, epistane (only if 40 or below) 3AD, AMS 1-AD and 4-AD, MMV2, my buddy ran Xtreme Tren without a SERM and was perfectly fine, Promagnon, Juggernaut Winztrol, could probably get away with propadrol.

it is always best to have a SERM on hand though just in case. you never know. they are really easy to get, alot easier than people think.
 
Personally I feel that hdrol is the only one that you should consider running without a SERM. On Havoc now and it has completely shut me down.
 
bigpapa said:
really and it is shutting you down? is your libido still strong or is that suffering?
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See, that is the first thing I noticed. It took only about 10 days to completely cut off my libido...I mean I am talking no urge whatsoever. Then I noticed that it has become rather difficult to pop wood and without proper motivation it shrinks down real quick lol.

Also my testicles have definitely decreased in size. I know it varies from person to person, but the onset of this was pretty rapid in my case. On the other hand, so far I have had great gains with Havoc.
 
Have you ever ran PH's do you know if your are gyno prone etc. A SERM on hand is always a good call in case of emergency's However i've run HARSH cycles on OTC PCT but I wasn't new to the compound so gyno was less a concern
 
start dosing with some DHEA. I would also get a SERM definately for PCT since you are having an issue
 
bigpapa said:
start dosing with some DHEA. I would also get a SERM definately for PCT since you are having an issue
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Yeah if that is for me, I have nolva ready. Gonna run 40/40 for first two days than 20/20/10/10 for the 4 weeks.

I ran hdrol previously and had little shutdown from that.
 
maurice02 said:
Personally I feel that hdrol is the only one that you should consider running without a SERM. On Havoc now and it has completely shut me down.
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Havoc completely shut me down as well. Definately need a SERM. It took me a month to recover. I used Nolva instead of Clomid. I won't do that again. Clomid 100%.
 
maurice02 said:
Yeah if that is for me, I have nolva ready. Gonna run 40/40 for first two days than 20/20/10/10 for the 4 weeks.

I ran hdrol previously and had little shutdown from that.
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I would use Clomid instead man. You'll recover alot quicker. Havoc affected me in the exact way. Libido crashed first, then it was hard to keep it up. Nolva kills libido even worse. That was a rough month. I'm starting Designer Supplements Superdrol Monday! I DO have Clomid and 6Xo for PCT.
 
angel77 said:
I would use Clomid instead man. You'll recover alot quicker. Havoc affected me in the exact way. Libido crashed first, then it was hard to keep it up. Nolva kills libido even worse. That was a rough month. I'm starting Designer Supplements Superdrol Monday! I DO have Clomid and 6Xo for PCT.
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x2. clomid sounds like the way to go in this situation.
 
h-drol might be the only ph id run without a serm.i ran a tren and phera combo last fall and didnt use a SERM and lets just say i wasnt back right for about a month.no gyno or anything like that but lost half my gains and libido was off for awhile.im going to use a SERM from now on no matter what.plus they arent hard to find in research liquid form.now my pet hamster will never have libido issues.
 
angel77 said:
I would use Clomid instead man. You'll recover alot quicker. Havoc affected me in the exact way. Libido crashed first, then it was hard to keep it up. Nolva kills libido even worse. That was a rough month. I'm starting Designer Supplements Superdrol Monday! I DO have Clomid and 6Xo for PCT.
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Just to point out...some people feel the complete opposite way that you do. some people swear by Nolva due to Clomid making them feel like complete crap.

Generally Depends on the user.
 
nickrut said:
Just to point out...some people feel the complete opposite way that you do. some people swear by Nolva due to Clomid making them feel like complete crap.

Generally Depends on the user.
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yes it is true it is user dependent. but it should also be compound dependent as well.
 
bigpapa said:
yes it is true it is user dependent. but it should also be compound dependent as well.
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Agreed...

Clomid can basically be used for anything, while Nolva is non-progestin.

I meant that for non progestins it was generally completely user dependent
 
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