Actually, andro isn't bad for pre w/o, pumps are great on it. It works in a cycle too, but the bloat is much worse than 4AD and it requires almost twice the dose to be as effective. It was on the top of the ban list no doubt, but was this list made public as common knowledge? I mean, I didn't see anything on the evening news about it that week or here anyone else but us talking about it? It wouldn't surprise me if people were still buying and selling just because they were not notified.