PFlow's TRT + PED Chat & workout Logs via Tonal + dumbbells

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

If anyone else needs some bloodwork like me, MEMORIALDAY20 at discountedlabs.com (Quest).

Got my usual $190 bodybuilder's bloodwork panel for $157 today on 20% off code.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Feeling saucy so what the heck an Iconic Memorial Day B2G1 on Ultra Hard (Epiandro + Androsterone).

Need these goo transdermal Andros between more hardcore runs when the Mechabol cycle ends here.

Just checked weight, yup it works upto 204lbs nice.

So updated plan >> finish Mechabol cycle >> urologist TRT dose titration >> Nanodrol (nano-Msten) cycle hopeful by July.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Man, anyone ever get indigestion + vomiting on cycle? Wholly frack, past day was a bust.

Like woke up yesterday at 4am violent vomiting, couldn't hold food down until my wife made me ginger-tea until 10pm ish. so today I am normal again mostly. Except super sore, lots of violent vomiting lead to acid burn in throat that led to lots of coughing action, ugh...

I found this old log on Swolesource where a fellow like me was running Mechabol in 2014 and ran into some indigestion issues. He noted all the other same benefits, but also this one strange side? Granted there could be other reasons for it, but I doubt food poisoning or any other underlying cause as I've never had that level of indigestion and vomiting.. maybe one time, but naw that was wicked.

Burly's Mechabol Experiment [Archive] - Swole Source

Hey guys, I have a stash of orals that has grown faster than it has depleted, so it's time to deplete it a little. I used to run orals for extended periods, but it was brutal on my immune system, not to mention harder on the liver and horrific to my cholesterol levels. Back in August I ran a...

www.swolesource.com

 

[Hyde]

It sounds like food poisoning to me, but orals in general raise stomach acidity and often cause heartburn issues in many. I get this with almost all SARMs and orals anymore.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

It sounds like food poisoning to me, but orals in general raise stomach acidity and often cause heartburn issues in many. I get this with almost all SARMs and orals anymore.

I'm thinking the acidity/heartburn thing like you noted - didn't feel like a food poisoning event. I think I remember something like this from early cycles in 2016-2017 time I did.

All is well today, dropped to 203lbs this morning - lot of ginger tea + grahams crackers - restored the stomach. If that's a potential standard feature of orals, then I guess I need ginger and tums on hand then, so I can just mitigate it quickly.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Well SOG, gastro battles continue day 3+.

Basically ate dry grain and cereals, oats, rice, and simple meats since Tuesday morning.. Small but increasing meals once the ginger tea helped me get past vomiting and indigestion starting Mon-night into Tuesday day..

Wed was work and rest, spine and abs and chest were all sore as hell. No PED simple diet. Just stretch and sleep after work, family. Extra hot water time.

Thurs more normal food felt better, 50mg Mechabol and 2.5km on performance mode Nordic track rower.

Friday morning had a first "constipation torpedo" I assume that was either causing the indigestion, or vica versa caused by it after - hard to say...

Friday, during day.. Had solid breakfast and oats, felt fine, after rowing night before + big poo in the morn after (torpedo away), decided to take pre-workout + electrolytes and glycer 65.. all good go hit Tonal.

Rocked 13k lbs on Advanced "Go Big or Go Home too" with a fun surprise... Hella freaking gassy, fan on garage door open bad. As I alternate between setting Tonal PRs for barbell bench and bicep curls, just rippin,wind... Gassed myself.

So finish the full workout, gas mostly gone... Feeling good, but I need fuel. So I make my usual 2% milk + Dymatize Super Gainer + blueberries shake.... Don't get half the damn thing drank... And bloat right back up in the stomach. No solid lunch was possible then. Finished work day.

I think my acid production must be still high.. so now instead of indigestion/vomit, just hours of gas/diahrrea -ugh after work until now. Not painful, just bloated until it all came out, system cleared...

It's almost done and I can take my Neuro Melatonin and go-to bed.

I love Mechabol it makes you want to train hard like your 20, still say it's DMZ-light. Might have to drop until I get my stomach resolved, let's see how tomorrow goes. I'll eat dry and skip milk+high protein gainer shake and eat simple again.

Maybe a good time to cutover to Trenavar and Iconic Alpha seven anyway.. after stomach settles perhaps.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Wphew, all good this morning.

Oats and coffee down this morning, now that passed. That was nutty.. usually had a "cast iron stomach" in my 20-30:s never had that before now 42, ugh.

Back on the Nordic track rower later and shoulders and legs tomorrow.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Wphew, all good this morning.

Oats and coffee down this morning, now that passed. That was nutty.. usually had a "cast iron stomach" in my 20-30:s never had that before now 42, ugh.

Back on the Nordic track rower later and shoulders and legs tomorrow.

Hmm - well at 42 I seem to ba e developed a dairy/whey intolerance.

Crazy, cut out milk and no whey today. Just oats, noodles, chicken, fish, eggo waffles, peanut butter, granola bar. Symptoms pretty much gone again.

So time to switch the proteins and diet big time I guess. Wow was not expecting that.. thought I had old man acid reflux/indigestion.

I mean I am lactose intolerant, but never ever had issue with dairy indigestion.. just need lactose free milk (lactase being a sugar).

But this maybe a protein intolerance, crazy ****.
>https://www.precisionnutrition.com/whey-protein-allergies-intolerances-bloating

>https://www.aaaai.org/allergist-resources/ask-the-expert/answers/old-ask-the-experts/whey (being allergic to whey, but maybe I could still drink Lactose free milk)? Dear God life without Hershey's chocolate milk, gonna suck..

>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK562306/

Guess it's time for recomp and lean out for a bit and finally get my Blackstone griddle up for bulk cooking. Can't cheat with milk + weight gainer shakes anymore :-/

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Well good news, not sure if that was PED / age driven acid reflux event, or some new whey intolerance... But today drank lactaid milk and ate cheese pizza no issue...

Back at the gym tomorrow now my energy has returned and I can get enough calories. I'll give up that Dymatize gainer and try the Build Fast Eighty:20 chocolate protein..

That stuff is 80:20 casein so it's easy on my stomach I've noticed too.

Switching to a recomp.type mode here after the Mechabol boost here anyway.

 

[Segansational]

Glad to hear the stomach issues are resolved. FWIW, I've been hearing of a stomach thing going around. But also, I don't avoid milk or lactose, but I did switch over to almond and now oat milk for shakes due to the amount of them and that has helped my overall digestion.

 

[Hyde]

Dairy can definitely be an issue, and whey specifically can become an allergen like you said. At age 50, our old coach who had drank whey daily for 30 years suddenly became allergic to it. Had to switch to egg protein, yogurt, casein.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Glad to hear the stomach issues are resolved. FWIW, I've been hearing of a stomach thing going around. But also, I don't avoid milk or lactose, but I did switch over to almond and now oat milk for shakes due to the amount of them and that has helped my overall digestion.

Thanks Sega - good suggestions gonna dial those up on my HEB cart here.

Dairy can definitely be an issue, and whey specifically can become an allergen like you said. At age 50, our old coach who had drank whey daily for 30 years suddenly became allergic to it. Had to switch to egg protein, yogurt, casein.

Wholly crap, so the Lactaid is OK.. And the Build Fast Formua 80:20 I took today (80%Ccasein) was fine as usual, even soothing as usual - love that chocolate lava, favorite protein..

But yeah frack, I'm now returning both 2x Dymatize Mass gainer jugs to DPS, ordering more BFF 80:20 and Peanut butter and waffles from HEB. I guess like your coach... I'm now moving over to the yogurt, Casein section now. Thanks, man I forget diet options... got stressed about caloric support.

I'm pretty much back at 4-pac-abs, just started Iconic Alpha 7 + Iconic Ultra Hard, got a slant board and doing more Tonal axe-choppers and plancks trying to kill off the love handles... Wow that really helped, knocked out 17klbs on Tonal this morning legs + shoulders.

At least I can still tolerate milk, cheese, so it's likely the Whey is no mas - wow,,

OK - one thing - I did get strong enough to MAX Tonal, on shoulder-shrugs... This thing needs more like 200lbs per arm (at 100lbs current model). I did just pay it off, and I have bowlfex selectechs weight sets to increase weights (so I can switch to that), but I lose the auto-logging / form-feedback... which I love.

There's this, https://vitruvianform.com/the-machine/ - a few other "tonal on steroids" alternatives popping up.
>I mean I think it'll still be awhile before I hit 100lbs per arm, on most exercises, lol. But a few, like Shrugs, well...

 

[Hyde]

If there’s no time limit to complete the reps, try holding the squeeze for a second at the top of each shrug. It will massively increase the difficulty/effect of the shrugs for the weight used.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

If there’s no time limit to complete the reps, try holding the squeeze for a second at the top of each shrug. It will massively increase the difficulty/effect of the shrugs for the weight used.

Great point, but just in case I put $50 on this bad boy Speede. Jebus 2000lbs magnetic resistance, thing might rip ones arm off, lol.

Speede is Launching Soon!

Sign up for VIP access and receive a HUGE discount when they launch.

tomsfinds.getspeede.com

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Okie, Cycle update and workout timing:
1.) Continue working out, sans Thursday periodontist fixing (minor oral surgery).
2.) Fly for four work next week, get "post Mecha" bloodwork at Quest labs by ~17th.
3.) Skipping Urologist Titratoin for higher TRT dose (for now) - bad luck on the indigestion last week, need to reschedule that... but then good luck, as doc is shipping me more than I need on refill frequency for 60mgs/ week, so whats my hurry to go the urologist... Sure doc, J'll stick to 60mgs/ week (TXT doc ported my old lady Endo-doc from CA anemic oldman dose).
4.) CoreLabs Tren+(Trendione, Diendione) , Olympus Lab Sup3r 19-nor
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Knocked out another 12klbs biceps + back work today. Just rockin the Iconic alpha 7 + ultra hard combo for next couple of weeks, until bloodwork says GTG to move to Tren+(Trendione, Diendione) and 19-nor cycle. Probably even use them through that a bit too.
=
If the Nutriissa cycle support and bloodwork keeps showing good, I've got some nice Ostarine again (it's a healing agent, I might run here) after the Tren+ run.

 

[MrKleen73]

Keep at it man, also with the stomach issues taking your orals at night seems to help a bit with the acidity and appetite issues. That and when you start killing acid levels in the stomach you are going to get gassier when eating dairy. You are leaving more behind for the bacteria to deal with by lowering the stomach acids. Not saying you aren't having an issue with the whey but worth checking back out while off the orals to see how you handle them without other factors.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Keep at it man, also with the stomach issues taking your orals at night seems to help a bit with the acidity and appetite issues. That and when you start killing acid levels in the stomach you are going to get gassier when eating dairy. You are leaving more behind for the bacteria to deal with by lowering the stomach acids. Not saying you aren't having an issue with the whey but worth checking back out while off the orals to see how you handle them without other factors.

Thanks for the motivation and True that, will do a whey check now that things had settled down. Had to do elimination diet real quick and adding back to figure out what was wrong and didn't really have down time planned, lol.. given primary life obligations and such.

Will try the orals at night perhaps along with melatonin to help remember.

I have work travel this next week so only some mild Andros go in the bag with me to hotel.., and take TRT normal 100mg/week over the weekend before flight.

 

[Smont]

Dairy can definitely be an issue, and whey specifically can become an allergen like you said. At age 50, our old coach who had drank whey daily for 30 years suddenly became allergic to it. Had to switch to egg protein, yogurt, casein.

Over the years I've seen quite a few people develop food intolerances by eating the same things too often. Apparently it's very common with bodybuilders and egg whites

 

[Segansational]

Whoa, bringing out the heavy hitters with that tren/dien/19-nor combo!

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Whoa, bringing out the heavy hitters with that tren/dien/19-nor combo!

Speaking of which - I'm starting to break out the 2+ years worth of "cycles cabinet" I've been saving and planning.

And finally, just took first 1mL (15mg) of Fusion UK, Nanodrol = nano, M-Sten particle suspension, liquid. Could just be hype, but first go with M-Sten. Supposedly the smaller particle size makes it more bioavailable, vs regular M-Sten.

Back from travel for a month, going to try and slide 4-weeks of M-Sten + Tonal here.

And after the M-Sten some Tren/Dien/19-nor goodness, 11-oxo and "D-Plex" and Iconic Thermoamp to toss in there.
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Not to mention I'm throwing one SARM back in the cabinet. Namely good Ostarine for the healing, bone density, and strength/sweat stuff.
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I'm also curious, once I clear up bloodwork from all that to run P-Mag (another 4-chloro, 17a-methyl) similar to Mechabol.. Interesting those work, but seems to have less liver toxicity versus plain 17a orals like DMZ, Halo, etc. Like no sides, pee basically clear already again.

Normally, before, without TUDCA when I ran DMZ after 3-4weeks my pee looks like iced-tea color, lol.

Would love to get TD versions or more 4-chloro-17a-methyl type PH made. Wonder how many more there could / should be?
1.)P-Mag = 4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3,17b-diol
2.)Mechabol = 4-chloro-17α-methylandrost-4-en-17β-ol-3-one
=

 

[Smont]

Never used nano whatever but I like msten. Only problem I had with it was I didn't notice much till I hit 30mg, at ,40mg it was awesome, my buddy used 50 and said it was similar to 50mg anadrol.

I know everyone makes a big stink about the dosage but no1 seems to have a problem with 30mg SD and SD is way stronger and more toxic then msten, just saying

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Never used nano whatever but I like msten. Only problem I had with it was I didn't notice much till I hit 30mg, at ,40mg it was awesome, my buddy used 50 and said it was similar to 50mg anadrol.

I know everyone makes a big stink about the dosage but no1 seems to have a problem with 30mg SD and SD is way stronger and more toxic then msten, just saying

Noted, just doing a little personal dose tolerance. I was a cheap date with DMZ and Sdrol before, dosage wise (meaning got good effects at moderate dose).

Good thing is it's liquid, so can fine tune the dose and got two bottles so can run until the Nutriissa Cycle Support and TUDCA no longer abate the sides.if any.

Since my bloodwork and health is good I do have a couple bottles of Corelabs DMZ (same folks make the Tren+) to run again, that's a favorite and now with TRT + better hydration and cycle support, should be way better cycles.

 

[Segansational]

Just be careful that with the tren/dien/19-nor and even osta, I believe, are all reported to have prolactin or gyno sides for some. So stacking all 4 I'd be sure to be extra cautious. But other folks like @Smont or @Hyde would probably be able to steer you right.

 

[Smont]

Just be careful that with the tren/dien/19-nor and even osta, I believe, are all reported to have prolactin or gyno sides for some. So stacking all 4 I'd be sure to be extra cautious. But other folks like @Smont or @Hyde would probably be able to steer you right.

19nors hate me lol

 

[Smont]

Ani I hate osta, with a passion

 

[Hyde]

If you’re willing to take enough ancillary drugs you can probably combine anything But if I do that I try to make it worth it! No free lunches.

 

[Smont]

If you’re willing to take enough ancillary drugs you can probably combine anything But if I do that I try to make it worth it! No free lunches.

Is it Jordan Peters that loves tren with deca?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

If you’re willing to take enough ancillary drugs you can probably combine anything But if I do that I try to make it worth it! No free lunches.

Just be careful that with the tren/dien/19-nor and even osta, I believe, are all reported to have prolactin or gyno sides for some. So stacking all 4 I'd be sure to be extra cautious. But other folks like @Smont or @Hyde would probably be able to steer you right.

Hang on y'all, I am not combining all 4. Have TRT as base in all these, but plan to run in some order as below. Thanks @Segansational, noted about the gyno risk on those as it took me forever to get rid of the bout I did have..

Pics meant for more to show post M-Sten options...
A )Tren+ and 19-nor for joints and strength
B.) Osta by itself
C.) The 11-oxo and d-plex could be other post M-Sten run too.

Happy Father's day y'all!
=
Also wow I think the M-Sten kicked in already did a 5.5k lbs legs warmup this morning, took the kiddos fishing and did 12.5klbs or so back and biceps this afternoon. Great energy, mood, and pump

I'd say the liquid, micronized M-Sten (Nanodrol) is effective and gives the on feeling pretty fast.
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@Smont , why don't 19-nor's like you and you didnt' have a good Osta run (with a passion)?

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Alright Chest + Triceps day done, around 11k lbs just on those upper body groups (great pump and sweat, on flyes I've been correcting range of motion for hypertrophy with the tonal form tracking, works).

Another strong sessions with the Nanodrol (nanoparticle, liquid suspension M-sten) + HTP's Decabolin (19-nor-azine) this morning day 2. Can feel M-sten liquid right away. Must cross the old blood-brain barrier..

Def range of motion and strength improvement today, setting PRs a little too easy (even after 4 months of Tonal tracking my progress, lol). Took a pic of my overall strength improvement from ~4 months (+63%) of consistent lifting on Tonal, pretty good is I say so myself...

 

[Hyde]

Is it Jordan Peters that loves tren with deca?

Plenty of guys do. I know he used a lot of both though, yes.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Plenty of guys do. I know he used a lot of both though, yes.

Is it Jordan Peters that loves tren with deca?

Just FYI, I've ran Deca once l, NPP once briefly.. don't remember any issues with it, but to clarify am not using deca, but a deca-PH via the, "19-NorAndrost-4-ene-3b-ol or 17-one Decanoate. This is a compound that has a 2-step conversion of Decanoate, to 19 norandrostenediol, then to 19 norTestosterone. This reduces DHT and estrogen effects but increases testosterone and makes it the star of the show, making it great for overall lean mass," according to the marketing.

I've noticed this does help with joint/ stiffness, so maybe the "deca" is the 19-nor-test that didn't agree with @Smont? Perhaps the 19-nor-DHEA would work better with less sides? It's for recovery and as a stacker so to speak.

 

[Smont]

Just FYI, I've ran Deca once l, NPP once briefly.. don't remember any issues with it, but to clarify am not using deca, but a deca-PH via the, "19-NorAndrost-4-ene-3b-ol or 17-one Decanoate. This is a compound that has a 2-step conversion of Decanoate, to 19 norandrostenediol, then to 19 norTestosterone. This reduces DHT and estrogen effects but increases testosterone and makes it the star of the show, making it great for overall lean mass," according to the marketing.

I've noticed this does help with joint/ stiffness, so maybe the "deca" is the 19-nor-test that didn't agree with @Smont? Perhaps the 19-nor-DHEA would work better with less sides? It's for recovery and as a stacker so to speak.

Tried this ph back when if first came out, can't remember what brand but honestly, I saw zero effects. My history with 19nors went bad after my second or third time using trestolone 7alpha ace. I ran out of testosterone cus I dropped my last vial and grabbed some 7alpha ace, only 15 or 30mg a day and after a while I noticed puffy nips but it went away as soon as I switched back to testosterone. Well, next cycle I pushed test high, added EQ, then added dienolone and within a week or 2 I had real gyno development.

Looking back now, all the signs were there, but because of all my previous gear experience with zero side effects other then acne I overlooked it until it was too late.

Now i wouldn't use deca "nandrolone decanoate", and even if this never happened I still wouldn't use it. But I can still use npp or dienolone or possibly tren ace at <300mg if I keep the duration to 30ish days and have raloxefine in the mix. Idk if trestolone acetate is possible anymore, maybe something like 50mg a week maybe. No long esters because I need to pull them fast.

Sucks because I like npp a lot.

Got a buddy that does certain cycles without
testosterone and he swears I will be able to use npp or tren ace with eq and no testosterone but I've never tried. Maybe in the future il try a high dose eq to replace testosterone and see what happens

 

[Hyde]

I wish Dienelone Enanthate was still around. Only ran it once but that was possibly my favorite steroid ever. Certainly top 5 compounds; so much bang relative to sides.

Maybe I should stock up on dien ace if I see it again.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I wish Dienelone Enanthate was still around. Only ran it once but that was possibly my favorite steroid ever. Certainly top 5 compounds; so much bang relative to sides.

Maybe I should stock up on dien ace if I see it again.

Hell yeah! Now we're talking if Dienalone comes along or similar items, grab extra I'll take some or split with ya.

I figured out I guess I can't really run 1-andro now, last time recently dried my knees too much now.. whereas 19-nors tend to give quiet strength and help joint mobility. My knees feel way better in general with them. There's other hardening agents.

Really, enjoying the Alpha seven and Ultra Hard from Iconic combo and since I turned down the Super R-Andro log, I'm grabbing a few bottles of Arachidonic acid to help break upcoming strength plateau perhaps next 6-12 months.. and I was jealous cause that sounds sweet, lol.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Hey @Smont when you ran the Neuromelatonin (which has a Terpine "Neurolidol" as second ingredient behind the Melatonin) you said you would take pre workout because of the relaxation effects. That's the Neurolidol talking in combo with melatonin. For me that works like a slow 5mg valium, not too shabby.

I'm curious also about MA Research new 3Z sleep aid too migjt have to look at that if these logs works out.

Back to 19nors, I've never ran Trest or Ment.. but based on this write-up.. similar to cheque drops with less toxicity to the liver? https://paretopharma(.com)/product/ment-trestolon-50mg-ml/ - don't want to get in trouble for posting links..

About the "low/no test cycles" I've heard of that you can run high EQ + others that way before.. but not sure I'll give that experiment a shot.

I feel like I am really just now learning how to lift for hypertrophy, good form + "mind muscle connection" on all exercises. Tonal training/tracking/coaching helps...

And although I learned a lot running through a bunch of compounds lifting ~2016-2019... All without TRT, so I ran them as a newbie & sub optimally. I feel like I could rerun all classic PH and injectables (singly or simple combinations) and get way more mileage.

Issues is stability of pyramid and house for me. Consistency. With family house, work, and biz I'm TX/AZ now I feel like I can put together the 5-7 years needed for a solid body recomp... I always did 6-18 months here or there, never string together 2-3 years until I found this AM place because my buddy's chiropractor gave him Super DMZ 2.0 from BSL lol.

Now I think I have a good shot shooting for another 2-3 years push to 5-7 cross-fingers.

 

[Smont]

I wish Dienelone Enanthate was still around. Only ran it once but that was possibly my favorite steroid ever. Certainly top 5 compounds; so much bang relative to sides.

Maybe I should stock up on dien ace if I see it again.

I just gave away 2 bottles of zero flux dienolone e... Sorry bro wish I knew

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I just gave away 2 bottles of zero flux dienolone e... Sorry bro wish I knew

Ahh shoot, that's Ok. I have quite the PH / TRT cabinet now.. but like any good chemist always trying to round out the set of goodies for the experiments to come.

 

[MrKleen73]

Ahh shoot, that's Ok. I have quite the PH / TRT cabinet now.. but like any good chemist always trying to round out the set of goodies for the experiments to come.

Speaking of PH cabinets... I have enough SD and EPISTANE to kill a few elephants. One of these days when I don't care about my lipids I will run the SD or trade it off for some Var... Should probably sell off the EPISTANE it doesn't agree with my joints at all. Too bad, I always gained off of it quite nicely.

 

[Hyde]

I just gave away 2 bottles of zero flux dienolone e... Sorry bro wish I knew

Dang, yeah that was the exact stuff. A great run!

 

[__synergy__]

I wish Dienelone Enanthate was still around. Only ran it once but that was possibly my favorite steroid ever. Certainly top 5 compounds; so much bang relative to sides.

Maybe I should stock up on dien ace if I see it again.

I still have a bunch left over from my old supplier. Had it tested for purity, but with a prolctinoma and the potential side effects, I've had to glare at it from the sidelines.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I still have a bunch left over from my old supplier. Had it tested for purity, but with a prolctinoma and the potential side effects, I've had to glare at it from the sidelines.

I'm not too worried about the prolactin part perse, but what other sides?

If you still have and it's in good shape, I'll send you a PM.

 

[Smont]

Speaking of PH cabinets... I have enough SD and EPISTANE to kill a few elephants. One of these days when I don't care about my lipids I will run the SD or trade it off for some Var... Should probably sell off the EPISTANE it doesn't agree with my joints at all. Too bad, I always gained off of it quite nicely.

What brand is the epistane and SD, we talking old school stash or something more recent.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Speaking of PH cabinets... I have enough SD and EPISTANE to kill a few elephants. One of these days when I don't care about my lipids I will run the SD or trade it off for some Var... Should probably sell off the EPISTANE it doesn't agree with my joints at all. Too bad, I always gained off of it quite nicely.

Man, i only ran Epistane like twice briefly.. Once was with Blackstone Epi-Smash 2.0. And then some of the last "Steel Crushers". Had no issues when I ran with Hexadrone (Epi Mash 2.0). But upon trying pure Epi sublingually = blood pressure headaches. Then a third time transdermal Epi later gave back pump city.. even though I added taurine on the last round.

Not sure, maybe Epi doesn't agree with me, but why the first round was good and then later. I never got to use it enough like 1-AD to experience it drying my joints lol.

 

[MrKleen73]

What brand is the epistane and SD, we talking old school stash or something more recent.

LGI Baby!!! I also have some Olympus Labs Epistane, and then Manifest which is an insane stack from Xcel - 30mg DMZ, 30mg Epistane, and 50mg of something similar to Winstrol per cap and 2 caps a day.

Man, i only ran Epistane like twice briefly.. Once was with Blackstone Epi-Smash 2.0. And then some of the last "Steel Crushers". Had no issues when I ran with Hexadrone (Epi Mash 2.0). But upon trying pure Epi sublingually = blood pressure headaches. Then a third time transdermal Epi later gave back pump city.. even though I added taurine on the last round.

Not sure, maybe Epi doesn't agree with me, but why the first round was good and then later. I never got to use it enough like 1-AD to experience it drying my joints lol.

Yes, that was probably the biggest issue I had with it was I would get crazy back and calf pumps. Cardio was not even an option for me on Epistane. My calves would get so painfully pumped within 10 minutes I could barely walk. However I gained very easily from it. Even when cutting I would end up 8lbs heavier and much leaner. I always thought it might be a good run with Trest for all of the Anti-estrogen benefits.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Today was all work focus, but I forgot to post the ~12klbs shoulder workout from yesterday.
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Need to go eat, freakin starving. Can't wait for the new Dymatize Casein and BFF Eighty:20 tub to get here. I'm OK with yogurt, and milk protein, (sadly childhood food phobia, don't eggs), but I haven't tried "high whey" calorie gainer since that recently indgiestion episode earlier in the log. ~3 weeks back. But Casein and a lower amount of whey in milk/yofurt seem fine, no issues.

There is a "high whey" intolerance article I posted before, probably similar to guys getting egg white sensitivities after a lot of years, etc. So it's likely the thing.
=
Anyway, no worries adapting the diet. Things are proceeding still. M-Sten + HTP Decabolin, occasional use of IF Alpha 7 + Ultrahard, has been working out pretty darn well. Mid-section shaping up nicely, with the hot TX garage gym and some sweat and recomp.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

I still have a bunch left over from my old supplier. Had it tested for purity, but with a prolctinoma and the potential side effects, I've had to glare at it from the sidelines.

Or @Smont or @Hyde - what about Dienolone TD from UK - Good ol Fusion @ Predator - Liquidien - anyone try this https://www.predatornutrition(.com)/prohormones/fusion-supplements/liquidien.html

Their liquid oral M-Sten so far is quite nice "Nanodrol" I know they're a competitor from overseas, but it's not like anyone in the states is offering these anymore..

I recently stocked up on some Core Labs DMZ, Bulk (M-Sten + 25R), and Tren+ (Trendione + Diendione).

When I buy Brawn Trenavar (Trendione) or Brawn Tren (Diendione) I just realized after researching these two compounds more... that although these are called "Tren/Trenvar oral PHs".... Diendione is a 19-nor Dienelone PH derivative (not really related to Trenbolone)... I mean the crossed marketing names in this industry lordy, whereas the Trenavar (Trendione) is a 17-Keto derivate of Trenbolone but Wiki article says it's 100x weaker, inactive basically?

Yeah I see I completely missed out on the Apex Alchemy sales on these back ~3 months ago, oh well.
=
Wierdly, this basically says Trenavar is inactive, BS = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trendione, although being related to Trenbolone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienedione (says this is really a 19-nor, PH of Dienolone)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienolone

 

[Smont]

Or @Smont or @Hyde - what about Dienalone TD from UK - Good ol Fusion @ Predator - Liquidien - anyone try this https://www.predatornutrition(.com)/prohormones/fusion-supplements/liquidien.html

Their liquid oral M-Sten so far is quite nice "Nanodrol" I know they're a competitor from overseas, but it's not like anyone in the states is offering these anymore..

I recently stocked up on some Core Labs DMZ, Bulk (M-Sten + 25R), and Tren+ (Trendione + Diendione).

When I buy Brawn Trenavar (Trendione) or Brawn Tren (Diendione) I just realized after researching these two compounds more... that although these are called "Tren/Trenvar oral PHs" they are chemically really Dienelone derivatives (not really related to Trenbolone)... I mean the crossed marketing names in this industry lordy.

Yeah I see I completely missed out on the Apex Alchemy sales on these back ~3 months ago, oh well.

Weak in comparison to the Injectable but still works.

Dude you gotta ease up on the orals. When's the last time you had bloodwork that checked markers for heart health, cholesterol, calcium score, stuff like that.

I don't know the exact extent of your use but I feel like most of the time your on one oral or another. Half the year or more broken up over various cycles?

If I'm wrong correct me

 

[Smont]

How many months out of the year are you on orals

 

[Hyde]

I still have a bunch left over from my old supplier. Had it tested for purity, but with a prolctinoma and the potential side effects, I've had to glare at it from the sidelines.

Raws or bottled Dienelone Enanthate in sterile oil?

Sucks you can’t use it. I mean it’s not for the faint of heart side-wise, but it slaps.

Or @Smont or @Hyde - what about Dienolone TD from UK - Good ol Fusion @ Predator - Liquidien - anyone try this https://www.predatornutrition(.com)/prohormones/fusion-supplements/liquidien.html

Their liquid oral M-Sten so far is quite nice "Nanodrol" I know they're a competitor from overseas, but it's not like anyone in the states is offering these anymore..

I recently stocked up on some Core Labs DMZ, Bulk (M-Sten + 25R), and Tren+ (Trendione + Diendione).

When I buy Brawn Trenavar (Trendione) or Brawn Tren (Diendione) I just realized after researching these two compounds more... that although these are called "Tren/Trenvar oral PHs".... Diendione is a 19-nor Dienelone PH derivative (not really related to Trenbolone)... I mean the crossed marketing names in this industry lordy, whereas the Trenavar (Trendione) is a 17-Keto derivate of Trenbolone but Wiki article says it's 100x weaker, inactive basically?

Yeah I see I completely missed out on the Apex Alchemy sales on these back ~3 months ago, oh well.
=
Wierdly, this basically says Trenavar is inactive, BS = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trendione, although being related to Trenbolone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienedione (says this is really a 19-nor, PH of Dienolone)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienolone

Not sure how much I would trust Fusion.

My deadlift was the strongest it ever was on 150-210mg of Trendione daily. Sides were basically identical to what you hear for Tren Ace, besides cough obviously. Stuff was insane. You just have to take enough.

 

[PoSiTiVeFLoW]

Weak in comparison to the Injectable but still works.

Dude you gotta ease up on the orals. When's the last time you had bloodwork that checked markers for heart health, cholesterol, calcium score, stuff like that.

I don't know the exact extent of your use but I feel like most of the time your on one oral or another. Half the year or more broken up over various cycles?

If I'm wrong correct me

Had bloodwork before Mechabol cycle. Everything fine, didn't post my recent Kardia mobile EKG or blood pressure cuff, but all good results there.

Urine with cycle support basically clear after Mecha (last time it didn't even move my bloodmakrers at 75-100mg dose). And I have a full blood panel waiting at Quest.. but didn't feel needed after Mecha. Was going to do it after the M-Sten here, that I know will have more toxicity.

Tren/Dien diones being non-methyl, like Andros don't really move my bloodwork much from what it remember too.

Anyway, it's like 3rd short, relatively low dose cycle for year since starting after Xmas. I have some Mast E for a non oral option too grin. I don't want to run EQ again until I get a place to donate blood.

It's only week 1 on M-Sten can still get mid cycle (post Mecha, start M-Sten) bloodwork and post cycle after still too.

Goal was to switch to Andros and Trenavar ((non methyl) after the M-Sten or maybe just plain TRT as a good dose.

I sold off some non sense and was just restocking PH cabinet. Not running all this back to back to back (already made that mistake).