Peptides, SERMS, SARMS - Experiences good or bad?

Loneyboy said:
sounds good. natty test booster to pick things up after, or an AI? or is it mild enough at 20mg that things will balance themselves? does anyone have any bulking results from a solo run of osta?
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Yes I ran osta at 20/30/30/30. Good strength increase with fat loss. I enjoyed it a lot. Pct was easy.
 
M.I.D said:
What was your PCT?
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torem 60/30/0/0 LGI rehab 4/4/3/2 OL Elim1nate 2/2/1/0

Edit: I used torem because I felt very suppressed. Libido was way down, balls had shrunk, poor erection quality and low volume on ejaculation
 
Mystere3 said:
IMO ostarine is significantly safer than x-factor fwiw. It's a far more tested substance as well.
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why would you say that it is significantly safer than X-Factor? I have heard of the side effects from inflammation with ArA but is there anything else I should know? Ostarine does seem to work in a pathway that is more directly anabolic, which would appear to make it safer. Just any specific reasons would be interesting to know.

Also, when you're talking SARMs, Osta-RX by IML is or isn't a real sarm? I assume you are all running research chem SARMs for your rats?
 
Loneyboy said:
why would you say that it is significantly safer than X-Factor? I have heard of the side effects from inflammation with ArA but is there anything else I should know? Ostarine does seem to work in a pathway that is more directly anabolic, which would appear to make it safer. Just any specific reasons would be interesting to know.

Also, when you're talking SARMs, Osta-RX by IML is or isn't a real sarm? I assume you are all running research chem SARMs for your rats?
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No, For your age ostarine is much more dangerous than xgels.
Myster3, you're out of your mind if you really think a teenager using ostarine is safer than an essential fatty acid. You always have strong posts but damn, that wasn't one of them.
I PERSONALLY have no issue with a 19 year old doing this stuff if they have it all worked out correctly and understand the risks. Hell, I started young, And I'm fine. Same with you.
But putting it in the perspective that his system is still maturing osta has many risks. And I have seen teenagers have life changing repercussions for running cycles. But I have yet to see a teenager who needs to be on trt for the test of their life because of ArA.
I also have yet to see a teenager who has Ed for a while because of ArA.
But I have with sarms/PH/ds/AAS.
 
Ostarine has essentially no side effects. It might be mildly suppressive but when you stop taking you will no longer be suppressed.

In phase 3 trials with more than 600 patients it was found to have minimal side effects over placebo.

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There is a ton of literature discussing the adverse effects of arachidonic acid and deranged EPA/AA ratios. Here are just a few.

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You'll also note that the efficacy and safety of AA has never been tested in any clinical trial. Ostarine has gone through a phase 2 and two phase 3 trials without serious adverse effects; really no adverse effects over placebo.

IME the dogma regarding age of first use of AAS is pretty stupid. Yes it's probably better not to use them when your test levels are higher but there's no magic # nor do all teenagers have the same levels of free or total test. Can you cause damage to your hpta? Sure. That being said you could cause that damage at 40 as easily as you could at 20. The only difference is that you'd have longer to deal with the low T levels. IMO that should be a choice an adult can make for themselves.
 
Mystere3 said:
Ostarine has essentially no side effects. It might be mildly suppressive but when you stop taking you will no longer be suppressed.

In phase 3 trials with more than 600 patients it was found to have minimal side effects over placebo.

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There is a ton of literature discussing the adverse effects of arachidonic acid and deranged EPA/AA ratios. Here are just a few.

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You'll also note that the efficacy and safety of AA has never been tested in any clinical trial. Ostarine has gone through a phase 2 and two phase 3 trials without serious adverse effects; really no adverse effects over placebo.

IME the dogma regarding age of first use of AAS is pretty stupid. Yes it's probably better not to use them when your test levels are higher but there's no magic # nor do all teenagers have the same levels of free or total test. Can you cause damage to your hpta? Sure. That being said you could cause that damage at 40 as easily as you could at 20. The only difference is that you'd have longer to deal with the low T levels. IMO that should be a choice an adult can make for themselves.
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Very good Articles.
I agree its a choice an adult will have to make for themselves.
Damage to the endocrine system is still a concern when teens are using anabolics or sarms.
ArA should be cycled off to avoid unwanted side effects.
 
I'm about to jump on an ArA / Anabeta Elite stack, all the research I've done leads me to believe that running ArA on workout days only and keeping the cycle at about 40-50 days in length is the ticket.

Everything has a side effect regardless, this can't be any worse then 75% of the compounds we discuss here.

Sorry about the minor derail lol
 
reps4jesus said:
Very good Articles.
I agree its a choice an adult will have to make for themselves.
Damage to the endocrine system is still a concern when teens are using anabolics or sarms.
ArA should be cycled off to avoid unwanted side effects.
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There is absolutely no evidence that sarms can cause damage to the endocrine system of anyone. None.

There's very little evidence that steroids themselves can cause permanent damage to the endocrine system. The majority of this evidence is anedoctal.

The main situation in which you'd want to avoid anything is actually a SERM in people young enough where their growth plates aren't fused bc the serm won't block the effects of estrogen on bone, so it's cause the growth plates to close.

The reason you don't want teens taking steroids is more that they don't know wtf they're doing and many drink alcohol; liver damage is a bigger concern than hpta issues.

Remember that pct is a relatively new concept. When I started using AAS it didn't even exist. You tapered down cycles and recovered naturally. You had to take more time off between cycles. People talk about it like if they deviate one bit from their pct protocol and they'll get permanent shutdown or gyno or w/e. That's not true.
 
Mystere3 said:
There is absolutely no evidence that sarms can cause damage to the endocrine system of anyone. None.

There's very little evidence that steroids themselves can cause permanent damage to the endocrine system. The majority of this evidence is anedoctal.

The main situation in which you'd want to avoid anything is actually a SERM in people young enough where their growth plates aren't fused bc the serm won't block the effects of estrogen on bone, so it's cause the growth plates to close.

The reason you don't want teens taking steroids is more that they don't know wtf they're doing and many drink alcohol; liver damage is a bigger concern than hpta issues.

Remember that pct is a relatively new concept. When I started using AAS it didn't even exist. You tapered down cycles and recovered naturally. You had to take more time off between cycles. People talk about it like if they deviate one bit from their pct protocol and they'll get permanent shutdown or gyno or w/e. That's not true.
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I'm sure you've seen me attempt to help out younger guys on here that look like they have actually put in the time and research. However, I had thought you didn't know he was 19. So a simple misunderstanding.
And yeah I have heard about teens taking 60mg sd!
And I know what you're talking about, many guys pulsed their cycles to avoid further shut down.
 
Mystere3 said:
There is absolutely no evidence that sarms can cause damage to the endocrine system of anyone. None.

There's very little evidence that steroids themselves can cause permanent damage to the endocrine system. The majority of this evidence is anedoctal.

The main situation in which you'd want to avoid anything is actually a SERM in people young enough where their growth plates aren't fused bc the serm won't block the effects of estrogen on bone, so it's cause the growth plates to close.

The reason you don't want teens taking steroids is more that they don't know wtf they're doing and many drink alcohol; liver damage is a bigger concern than hpta issues.

Remember that pct is a relatively new concept. When I started using AAS it didn't even exist. You tapered down cycles and recovered naturally. You had to take more time off between cycles. People talk about it like if they deviate one bit from their pct protocol and they'll get permanent shutdown or gyno or w/e. That's not true.
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Dont serms act as an estrogen as well on growth plates?

And I like how you stated that last part
 
Mystere3 said:
Not really. You WANT the acromial growth plates to fuse anyways. Failure to completely fuse can cause pain.
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Okay cool cool...I mean im fairly wide now, but that could be shoulder muscle and not bone....regardless already used nolva so whats done is done.
 
Wow. Pct is a "new" concept but SARMS are somehow to be trusted and are safer than fish oil? If pct is "new" then sarms are still swimming around in someone's balls. This thread has convinced me this board has again been infiltrated by guys from another board that blatantly pushed sarms while selling them . Any teen considering using something that has been shown to be suppressive- DON'T. That used to be the standard here. Studies done on cancer patients using 3 mgs, conducted by stockholders, aren't proof of anything in terms of doses typically used by healthy males for bodybuilding purposes. Do the research. There is PLENTY of bloodwork floating around showing ostarine to be significantly suppressive. If something cause suppression, despite the claim to the contrary, that IS considered a "side effect". If it sounds to good to be true...
Sure, no one is forcing anyone to take it. But no one is forcing anyone to take bad advice either. Be responsible.
 
There's a clinical trial by gtx out with 9 mg/day of ostarine as well.

Pure pharma ostarine is likely a lot more potent than RC or supplement grade ostarine, also.

In order for a drug to pass phase 1-2 trials it has to be shown to be safe at higher than standard doses. Phase 3 where the drugs were tested at 3 mg is to test efficacy, and it was shown to be very effective. Very few compounds used in bodybuilding have had as much safety testing as ostarine, and the ones that have are either steroids, serms, or AIs.
 
jarhead said:
Wow. Pct is a "new" concept but SARMS are somehow to be trusted and are safer than fish oil? If pct is "new" then sarms are still swimming around in someone's balls. This thread has convinced me this board has again been infiltrated by guys from another board that blatantly pushed sarms while selling them . Any teen considering using something that has been shown to be suppressive- DON'T. That used to be the standard here. Studies done on cancer patients using 3 mgs, conducted by stockholders, aren't proof of anything in terms of doses typically used by healthy males for bodybuilding purposes. Do the research. There is PLENTY of bloodwork floating around showing ostarine to be significantly suppressive. If something cause suppression, despite the claim to the contrary, that IS considered a "side effect". If it sounds to good to be true...
Sure, no one is forcing anyone to take it. But no one is forcing anyone to take bad advice either. Be responsible.
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Jarhead you are NOT!
 
My rat recently just started Ostra and GW. He took 25mg of ostra yesterday but is only taking 20mg for now on to play it safe. He took 10mg split into two doses, one in the morning and one at afternoon/evening at 5mg each. He might up the GW after a few days or a week to 15-20mg to see if he notices any difference. I ordered some s-4 to add to the mix for my rat to see how that stacks too. I am pretty new to this stuff but been reading a lot on the forums about it so I hoping for some good results. One thing I did notice right off is his joints felt a 100% better. He has had elbow and shoulder pain for years and yesterday it was hardly noticeable.
 
danzigmisfits said:
My rat recently just started Ostra and GW. He took 25mg of ostra yesterday but is only taking 20mg for now on to play it safe. He took 10mg split into two doses, one in the morning and one at afternoon/evening at 5mg each. He might up the GW after a few days or a week to 15-20mg to see if he notices any difference. I ordered some s-4 to add to the mix for my rat to see how that stacks too. I am pretty new to this stuff but been reading a lot on the forums about it so I hoping for some good results. One thing I did notice right off is his joints felt a 100% better. He has had elbow and shoulder pain for years and yesterday it was hardly noticeable.
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I don't claim to know much about SARMS, but I know red flag comes to mind, when I hear S4, i know some people report problems with their vision, I don't think you should take that chance.
 
I read similar things about vision issues from s-4. The vision seems to being only temporary and goes back to normal after you stop taking it from what Ive read. Ill ease into it but starting with a low dose to see what happens and slowly increase it. I am colorblind so hoping I will not notice any difference lol, Thanks for your concern, I take all advice to heart. The LDG is the one I am mostly worry about taking since it affects everyone differently. Ill have to debate that one after this cycle of sarms.
 
I ran osta alone for 8 weeks and put on some solid muscle and strength. Ran a mini PCT afterwards , but was only able to keep some size. I actually have photos from my bulk.

Months later I ran s4, gw, and osta again bc I loved it. S4's night blindness isn't night blindness, you actually have a yellow tint all day long. It's actually kind of annoying. It goes away that's why you run it 5on/2off. It also kicks in like week 6. S4-50mg twice a day, gw-20mg twice a day, and osta 25mg preworkout. S4 is awesome, you notice the effects like week 6. Almost a month later I lost all feeling in my comrad, couldn't get hard for a week. I ran a mini PCT as well, and had bloods done. Will never go this route again. Still have nightmares about that week lol
 

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For the sides it seems unreasonable to run a sarm as a solo cycle. For PCT it would appear to be quite attractive for maintenance but the minimal gains and finicky sides make it a no-go for me. I'll stick with Creatine, ArA, and protein.
 
Ostarine is great and I used to think s4 was pretty sweet, but really looking back im just guna do ostarine. S4 seems too sketch and even though my vision came back the lack of research does stray me away.

Ostarine is great no sides for me at all and I could really see it has its place in cutting or a recomp. It helped me this past semester when I couldnt get the right amount of calories. I still made gains even when in a calorie deficit, and as previously stated there is solid research on its safety.
 
It's not bad, it's very suppressive and def not 12x as effective as osta. It's good for stacking though. Think of it as a non-methyl.
 
uubiduu said:
liver enzymes can also rise on sarms
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Only ALT and there has never been a case with cholestasis, that's likely related to metabolism. Non-methyls can cause cholestasic liver failure just like methyls, it's just less common.
 
Was thinking of running 20mg ostabol for 30 days, go straight into a 30 day PH cycle, then pct using 10mg osta along with torem and other goodies. Sound OK?

Haven't decided on cycle yet, something not to heavy, maybe 1-andro & dermacrine or furaza/derm.
 
Loneyboy said:
would you recommend this over a PH to a first-timer?
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I would. I ran Osta RX at 3 caps per day (20 mgs total) with calories at maintenance. Lost weight, gained strength (busted some plateaus), felt awesome the whole time. "PCT" was DAA and 6oxo. Less harsh and less sides than any PH, but less gains
Would run at 30 mgs next time.
 
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