pct and androgel

Androgel is not the fountain of youth, thats like saying i can take 1000mg ED of m1t cause i had subway. If he continues androgel he will continue a hard suppression. He did not even act like he knew what hcg was. He was asking why he would need HCG.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
Actually, HRT does not suppress nearly as fast as PHs. He could sustain the androgel for a while without severe suppression. swale claims It does cause lh decrease by 55-60%.
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Umm...Check the studies. 25mg/week suppressed within 3 days. In other words if LH levels are bottomed out, ther is NO test production.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
Androgel is not the fountain of youth, thats like saying i can take 1000mg ED of m1t cause i had subway. If he continues androgel he will continue a hard suppression. He did not even act like he knew what hcg was. He was asking why he would need HCG.
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What don't you get? He already is in a state of suppression! Thats why he on HRT! If it gets back enough it can effect sperm production in which case HCG can be used. THats why he goes to the doctor and thats why HRT levels are monitored.
 
Well i have said in most of my post to see his doctor. Tell the doc everything, cause the products are legal.

Come back and let us know.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
Actually, HRT does not suppress nearly as fast as PHs. He could sustain the androgel for a while without severe suppression.
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Where do you get this from? That is totally false.
 
Then why do we recommend post cycle so much? Why dont we just recommend hcg instead of nolva and stay on the Drugs like this dude is doing?

We have been doing it wrong all along. I can stay big forever thanks to hcg!
 
Yes you can but for some reason you equate to injecting 750mg/week to 100mg/week. You could easily stay on year round with little to no suppression with HCG. But then you fail to understand that chronic use of HCG desensitizes Leydig cells over time and also the negtaive effect of lipid profiles with high amounts of androgens. HCG becomes ineffective if you use it to much and you need to use more for a steroid like cycle than a HRT cycle, so the megative effect over time are even worse.

We've recommended HCG DURING a cycles many times to prevent suppression but during a 4-6 week cycle the suppression compared to 12-20 week cycle isn't even close. ALso most of the users in this section are PH users, not steroid users so therefore do not inject.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
Then why do we recommend post cycle so much? Why dont we just recommend hcg instead of nolva and stay on the Drugs like this dude is doing?
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HCG does not directy cause an increase in test production. It forces Leydig cell to respond to LH (in this case synthetic). This rise in testosterone would also cause a rise in estrogen making it very easy to get gyno post cycle. THis is why NOlva is used along with it. SWALE recomeended to use HCG during your cycle making suppression a moot point so when you do finally come off and use NOlva, the rise in LH will automatically produce a rise in testosterone since the LEydig cells have bee functioning the whole time. THe delay in test production is reduced and recovery happens much quicker.

You need ot read the profiles more thoroughly and understand what going on.
 
If you read the 2 posts by this same guy, the guy is asking if he should do PCT or if he should continue androgel after his m1t cycle. Manbeast told him to use 4ad along with his androgel during PCT.

I just dont think the guy knows what he is doing and i am telling him to stop suppressing for a while. Or atleast see his doctor and make future plans for natty restoration.
 
If infact androgel is that supressive than he needs to come back to life at some point or see his doctor. He was suppressed before he even started the cycle so lets just make it worse for him.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
If you read the 2 posts by this same guy, the guy is asking if he should do PCT or if he should continue androgel after his m1t cycle. Manbeast told him to use 4ad along with his androgel during PCT.

I just dont think the guy knows what he is doing and i am telling him to stop suppressing for a while. Or atleast see his doctor and make future plans for natty restoration.
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Dude, you seriously need to stop. He is on HRT BECAUSE HE IS SUPPRESSED FOR LIFE! Its a medical condition!!!!

He is on HRT because in ther natural state his testes do NOT PRODUCE ENOUGH!

You do know what HRT is? Hormone REPLACEMENT Therapy!

Suppressed is suppressed! He will be that way for the rest of his life! WHats the point of stopping Androgel? He will just reutnr to his low state again. He is UNABLE to produce sufficnet amounts! THats why he IS ON HRT!
 
Suppressed does not produce a level of 230. His nuts work a little before androgel.

They dont work at all while on it. Are you telling him to follow manbeasts advice fromthe other thread?
 
Suppressed does not mean SHUT DOWN! It means your not producing your normal amount. In his case, thats ALL THE TIME!
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
All i said was to see his doctor and then tell us.
If he is on proper hrt than his doctor should be aware of his exogeneous endeavors.
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No, you said a lot more that was totally false and had zero bearing with his case. If you don't understand how this stuff works you have no basis to comment in this thread at all.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
bOBO, WILL YOU GIVE YOUR ADVICE TO THE GUY AND QUIT ARGUING WITH ME?
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I already did but you keep bringing up false information that just confuses him. If you don't know, don't post.
 
Bobo said:
Bascially the answer to the whole problem is that since he is on HRT he will be suppressed adn there never is a need for PCT. Adding additional amounts will only cause continued atrphy which can be minimized or eliminated with HCG. Eventually the levels will drop back down to the ranges his HRT provide and that will be that. Nolva and Clomid would only provide ant-e effects, thats all.
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Read that AGAIN! I made my suggestion a page ago!
 
HCG is only for people that want to prevent atrophy or have significant atrophy. In his case its proably neither since the cycle was so short so he probably doesn't need it. In the future he might but he doens't need to starting using HCG unless his doctor says he does or he chooses to do long cycles.
 
If he is suppressed before a cycle and still suppressing after a cycle, i would say the time is now to make plans. Cause that is a long cycle.
 
bobo,

I have learned some stuff today. Thanks for kicking me around!
But i still ahve a question. Do you get warning signs that you are "on" too long and it is time to take hcg? Is slight shrinkage enough to warrant pct or hcg?

I am testing an 8 week 4ad cycle and i guess it is part of the reason i am arguing over here. Can a doctor get me hcg if i desperately need it?
 
Only if it medically warrants it. If you go in to a Doctor and he takes blood test while on 4AD, youre test levels will be very very high and your testes will be smaller than usual. In other words, he will know your taking something so therefore he will not give you HCG.

The warning signs are atrophy. Some people experience this more than others and the only way to know is from your doc or your personal experience. It also depends on the doc. Some like HCG, some don't. If you have a consultation with SWALE and youir experienceing atrophy he will most likely put you on HCG. This only works if you have a medical condition though as he will not prescribe anything wiothouth intial blood work done.
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
Orvis,
So the answer is HCG dude, Do you have any questions?

Please let us know what you decide to do.
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why would i need hcg for such a short cycle
the doc said i shouldnt have any shrinkage while on androgel
also what do you think about what manbeast said about staying on 4ad
for a couple weeks
 
Yimen E.Cricket said:
If he is suppressed before a cycle and still suppressing after a cycle, i would say the time is now to make plans. Cause that is a long cycle.
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Not necessarily. Some don't experience atrophy at all while other do. YOu will probably experience much more atrophy with high doses than with androgel. Just because your suppressed does not mean your testes will shrink. It will usually take a very long time with those doses. The volume of atrophy doesn't even come from a lack test production (Leydi cells), it comes from lack of sperm production (steroli cells). Steroli cells take up a greater volume of your testes than Leydig cells do. Thats why I continue to tell people you can't make a judement on test production from testes size alone. It doesn't tell the whole picture. You could have normal test production and your teste could be small due to low sperm production.
 
orvise said:
why would i need hcg for such a short cycle
the doc said i shouldnt have any shrinkage while on androgel
also what do you think about what manbeast said about staying on 4ad
for a couple weeks
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You don't need it unless you do have significant atrophy.


You don't need 4AD. The androgel will be enough. THe difference between you and noraml men is that the PH's will cause the test production to stop and therefore there will be a delay after the cycle until test production returns to normal. With you, androgel is your test production basically so the delay will not occur. You will just return to the levels of test that androgel provides which is the normal range depending on how muchn you use.
 
Bobo said:
Not necessarily. Some don't experience atrophy at all while other do. YOu will probably experience much more atrophy with high doses than with androgel. Just because your suppressed does not mean your testes will shrink. It will usually take a very long time with those doses. The volume of atrophy doesn't even come from a lack test production (Leydi cells), it comes from lack of sperm production (steroli cells). Steroli cells take up a greater volume of your testes than Leydig cells do. Thats why I continue to tell people you can't make a judement on test production from testes size alone. It doesn't tell the whole picture. You could have normal test production and your teste could be small due to low sperm production.
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thanks for the feedback bros
for future cycles,should i stay on the hrt throughout the cycle
 
let me tell you a little about my cycle
quit taking androgel for the cycle
m1t 10 mg ed trans 4ad 4 squirts ed for 2 weeks 202 to 211 9% body fat
no sides except increased libido
should i stop the 4ad or run it a little longer?
 
Yes. If your prescribed with HRT, then you should continue it until the doctor tells you not to.
 
orvise said:
would it make sense to run the 4ad for a while longer
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Get some test cyp instead. You are wasting your time on 4ad.

Just kidding, Basically you can do what you want cause you just rteurn to normal anyway. That is what they are saying.
 
OK theres been some great posts here and a lot of feed back and I think I got it now.

So me (and others) on androgel, can take something like M1T and still get good gains with it. When our cycle is done, instead of doing a PCT we just go back to our androgel and we shouldent have any problems with high levels of Es or anything right?

One question I still have is, when on the M1T cycle, do we still take our androgel? Or can we? Would that combind with the M1T increase gains any? Or have any posative effects? Or should we stay off it when we start a M1T or other PH cycle? To me, it seems that if I took my Androgel with my M1T cycle, I should get great gains as I will have my daily levels of test through out the cycle of M1T.


Still one last question. Is there anyway, with DMSO or something else, to increase the absorb % of a packet of Androgel? I know I wont get PH like levels form androgel, but it would be nice to get my normal test levels up to the higher ends of the scale. Any imput on this would be great.
 
1. Depends. Some may, some may not. It all depends on you and what you use. I would always have Nolva on hand when using ANY hormones.

2. Yes, take it. Ther is no reason to stop unless your using another form of test. Keeping test levels normal is always beneficial in many ways.

3. Yes you can increase absortion with DMSO. How much depends on how much you use and even then its just a guess. But remember, the higher the dose the more chance of atrophy and further suppression. FOr you its not that much of a big deal but it can effect sperm production, lipid profiles and general mood.
 
Thanks a bunch Bobo for the info. I feel much much much better now that I have a full understanding of all of this now, and a full understading of what adrogel actually is. I have really high hopes of this combind with a cycle of M1T, and can't wait to try it. But that wont happen till at least earily summer. I am simply gaining to much from the Adrogel alone, due to how low my levels were before, just getting them back in the normal range with the gel has made a huge impact on my gains when working out. Right now I am expecting some time around summer for the gains to start to slow down again, at which point I will start a cycle of M1T. As much as I would love to now, I am in no hurry as I want to see how much more I can gain with androgel and a good diet. I probably wont "need" any M1T by summer, as I will probably still be getting good gains, even if they do slow down some which I expect. But a nice boost of 5-10 pounds from the M1T in the summer, on top of what I am already gaining and buliding would really make a big diffrence in my over all look. Assuming I am still packing it on like I am now. If I am not then I will hold off till I have a really good, natural bulid where the gains from the M1T will go much further.

Right now its going to be a play it by year approch. But hopefully I can get the androgel to absorbe even better with a little DMSO and increase the gains even more from this stuff. Anyone have any ideas on how I could mix DMSO with this stuff, it's going to be hard since it comes in single, small packets :( Not even exactly sure how much I should mix.
 
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