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Parallel Squats versus Ass-to-grass squats

Parallel Squats Vs. Ass-to-grass

  • Parallel squats, state why.

    Votes: 47 55.3%

  • Ass-to-grass squats, state why.

    Votes: 36 42.4%

  • Other, state why.

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • Total voters
    85
oogaly_boogal said:
Actually their joints are eventually shot to hell. Improper form of ANY squat is bad for you. Hell I believe its somewhere around 1200lb of pressure on your knee simply walking up stairs.
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Who said anything about improper form? You think ATG is improper form? Full squats are not bad for the knees, in fact it strengthens the knees. This is not a debatable topic. Yes it is true you shouldn't be rounding your lower back but some of us are flexible enough to go all the way down without rounding, I know I can.

Quote from mark rippetoe
In a partial squat, which fails to provide a full stretch for the hamstrings, most of the force against the tibia is upward and forward, from the quardirceps and their attachment to the front of the tibia below the knee. This produces an anterior shear, a forward-directed sliding force, on the knee, with the tiba being pulled forward from the patellar tendon and without a balancing pull from the opposing hamstrings. This shearing force--and the resulting unbalanced strain on the prepatellar area--may be the biggest problem with partial squats. Many spectacular cases of tendinitis have been produced this way, with "squats" getting the blame.

Always take your squats to parallel or below, as deep as you are able while maintaining a good back postion without undue rounding. If you can't get to at least parallel, drop to a weight to where you can, and if you can't get to parallel with no weight, then you need to stop squatting and improve your flexibility.

Squats CAN be damaging to your knees, however, if you have previous knee problems and insist on maxing out your squats while the knee problems continue, or if your knees are not tracking over your toes. If at any point during your squat your knees are not following the direction where your toes are pointing--bending inwards or outwards--then that's no good and you are putting yourself in danger of future knee issues.
 
ihateschoolmt said:
Who said anything about improper form? You think ATG is improper form? Full squats are not bad for the knees, in fact it strengthens the knees. This is not a debatable topic. Yes it is true you shouldn't be rounding your lower back but some of us are flexible enough to go all the way down without rounding, I know I can.

I was saying that in general, proper form is the main point, if someone can't associate the mind muscle connection while doing ATG they would be better off attempting parallel or at most 1inch below that.

Quote from mark rippetoe
In a partial squat, which fails to provide a full stretch for the hamstrings, most of the force against the tibia is upward and forward, from the quardirceps and their attachment to the front of the tibia below the knee. This produces an anterior shear, a forward-directed sliding force, on the knee, with the tiba being pulled forward from the patellar tendon and without a balancing pull from the opposing hamstrings. This shearing force--and the resulting unbalanced strain on the prepatellar area--may be the biggest problem with partial squats. Many spectacular cases of tendinitis have been produced this way, with "squats" getting the blame.

Always take your squats to parallel or below, as deep as you are able while maintaining a good back postion without undue rounding. If you can't get to at least parallel, drop to a weight to where you can, and if you can't get to parallel with no weight, then you need to stop squatting and improve your flexibility.

Squats CAN be damaging to your...

I am not sure where you were going with this quote. I simply stated the biomechanics and the amount of pressure applied to the actual patellar ligament
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But okaaay.
 
I voted parallel even though i do go just below parallel. i do it that way because thats how Ripptoe teaches it in starting strength.
 
I go ass to grass, mostly because I find it easier to shoot out of the hole. I tend to do the whole dive bomb approach to squats, when I drop fast, and get that explosiveness at the bottom. I find that when I go parallel I dont get that speed, and I tend to tweak my back easier. Plus, I don't get that deep deep burn, but I do feel the difference in my knees, cause they always hurt, so I may switch it up.
 
ihateschoolmt said:
I thought you were saying olympic squatters will eventually damage their knees? Is that not what you meant? I argee with the form stuff, was that's all you were commenting about in my other post?
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Hmm, I meant long periods of time of any amount of pressure on the joint will cause it to deteriorate. Oly lifters do get bad joints at the end of their careers, no matter what you are taking the amount of time to recoup said joints is a lot longer than musculature.
 
crux said:
I break parallel with a relatively wide stance, but I also concentrate on hip drive (see Mark Rippetoe's videos if you're unsure). ATG squats tend to make the low back/butt roll inwards which breaks the hip drive form. Your butt should stick out at the bottom of the movement.

Although I voted for parallel, I should probably have voted for 'other' since I do go below parallel, but I do not go so far as to roll inwards. This method definitely keeps tension on hamstrings and glutes and results in less shearing than partial squats.
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This I used to do ATG and would sometimes bounce out of the bottom of the rep. It was ok until I herniated 2 disks in my back. I say go down as far as you can with good form.
 
I squat parallel or a lil below. It also depends on my bar placement in which i can even achieve proper depth for ATG squats.
 
Just recently started doing ATG for the pasr few months and found that my knees feel better this way as opposed to going parallel. Not trying to knock on anybody just posting what I found works for me.
 
I haven't been around here much lately, but I feel the need to comment on my experience.

I've had knee issues since high school, thanks to 7 years of football and lots of squats with horrible form. I've never been afraid of squats, but always had issues with my knees that flair up every know and then. Going to parrallel or anywhere short of that feels really bad for me. The tendons in my knees tighten up and feel like they are going to snap. When I go all the way down and bottom out with my calves against the back of my legs, I feel so much stronger. A powerlifter I know taught me the low-bar hold and convinced me to start going lower, and since then my knees feel so much better. There is much less acute stress on the tendons around my knee. I do NOT bounce at all. I actually pause, making sure I'm completely bottomed out in both the knees and hips before driving through my heals.

My wife also does ATG, almost literally. She's hyper-flexible and almost touches the ground, all without rounding her back. It's pretty impressive watching her ATG squat 90% of her bodyweight.
 
Here's a quote from an article Chad Waterbury posted on Tnation. I thought it might be relevant.

"For those of you who aren't familiar with the abbreviation "ATG," it means "ass to grass." A true ATG squat requires you to sit back and down until the knee joint can't flex any further. Now, I'll admit that full range of motion exercises are almost always better than anything less, but the ATG squat is rarely the best option.

First off, it takes a lot of mobility in the ankles, hips, and T-spine to maintain the proper torso position at the bottom of an ATG squat. Most people round their low back (lose lordosis) in the hole and this is a very high risk position for the spine. When you lose lordosis, especially with a heavy load across your upper back, you're in the perfect position to blow out a disc.

And I'm just talking about the people with the skeletal structure (long torso, short legs) to actually do an ATG squat.

If you're relatively tall, or if you have long legs relative to your torso, ATG squats will never be an ideal choice because your spine will be bent like a twig in the hole.

For the few people who can do an ATG squat correctly, it's very beneficial because the portion of the exercise where your hips drop below your knees is when your hamstrings, glutes, and vastus medialis (teardrop muscle) really kick in."
 
I find that Olympic squats are a more natural movement and put less stress on the knees and it works your whole body more effectively. I rarely see people at my gym go even parallel much less full atg but it depends on flexibility and core strength as to weather or not your able to go low.
 
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