PapaPump's CJC-1295/GHRP-6 6-month Run

Plus you don't want to kill cortisol levels. It may even be beneficial to have high/normal range on cycle:

There is synergy between the two hormones involved in GH synthesis.

"RESULTS: ...cortisol...in the presence of thyroid hormone, increased the growth hormone synthesis rate an additional 2- to 5-fold"

"DISCUSSION: ...The synergistic control of growth hormone synthesis by T3 and cortisol appears to occur independently of one hormone modulating the cellular distribution or concentration of the receptor for the other hormone (12). Because thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones appear to act at the nuclear level, it seems likely that both hormonal receptors act at the genome in a concerted fashion to increase the accumulation of GHmRNA.

...suggests that both hormones interact to modulate the growth hormone response by a pretranslational mechanism, presumably at the level of the growth hormone genome.

SOURCE: Thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones synergistically control growth hormone mRNA in cultured GH1 cells, LAWRENCE E. SHAPIRO, Proc. Nati. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 75, No. 1, pp. 45-49, January 1978

ABSTRACT We have previously demonstrated that thyroid hormone controls growth hormone synthesis in GH1 cells and that the induction of the growth hormone response by glucocorticoid appears to be highly dependent on thyroid hormone action. Thyroid hormone induces growth hormone synthesis approximately 5- to 20-fold and cortisol increases this response 2- to 6-fold further. Long-term kinetics of the growth hormone response show that, without added thyroid hormone, cortisol can induce a small-growth hormone response after 48 hr of incubation....​
 
ragnar said:
Do you think that starting with a really low dose and gradually increasing it to your desired level might help your body adjust? I'm just wondering, since I know some people have problems with GH when they start with 4-6 i.u. every day, but when they back down to 2 i.u. and work up slowly they eliminate--or at least reduce the intensity of--the side effects.
Click to expand...

I really like this point. So now I need to rethink things. What if the products WERE labeled correctly and my visual inspection of the vials' volumes was inaccurate/inappropriate? Perhaps my starting protocol was resulting in too much GH release and my body had a hard time regulating/adapting.

I will also mention that the GHRP and CJC can in separate ziplock bags and w/in each of the two bags was an HPLC analysis of the product. I went back and checked and the print off for CJC was in the bag labeled CJC (same for GHRP). Hmmm.....Is this 500mcg dosage thing really necessary or should I just dose everything down a bit to let my body adapt to the increased GH? My hands were achy the past few days (just making note here). IMO, I look bigger and am moving very good weight in the gym even after my 2 week "resting" period (lifted lighter and less frequently).

Or is it just fine to do my planned "500mcg" dose and see what happens? Sort of in analysis paralysis here.
 
datBtrue said:
Plus you don't want to kill cortisol levels. It may even be beneficial to have high/normal range on cycle:

There is synergy between the two hormones involved in GH synthesis.

"RESULTS: ...cortisol...in the presence of thyroid hormone, increased the growth hormone synthesis rate an additional 2- to 5-fold"

"DISCUSSION: ...The synergistic control of growth hormone synthesis by T3 and cortisol appears to occur independently of one hormone modulating the cellular distribution or concentration of the receptor for the other hormone (12). Because thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones appear to act at the nuclear level, it seems likely that both hormonal receptors act at the genome in a concerted fashion to increase the accumulation of GHmRNA.

...suggests that both hormones interact to modulate the growth hormone response by a pretranslational mechanism, presumably at the level of the growth hormone genome.

SOURCE: Thyroid and glucocorticoid hormones synergistically control growth hormone mRNA in cultured GH1 cells, LAWRENCE E. SHAPIRO, Proc. Nati. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 75, No. 1, pp. 45-49, January 1978

ABSTRACT We have previously demonstrated that thyroid hormone controls growth hormone synthesis in GH1 cells and that the induction of the growth hormone response by glucocorticoid appears to be highly dependent on thyroid hormone action. Thyroid hormone induces growth hormone synthesis approximately 5- to 20-fold and cortisol increases this response 2- to 6-fold further. Long-term kinetics of the growth hormone response show that, without added thyroid hormone, cortisol can induce a small-growth hormone response after 48 hr of incubation....​
Click to expand...

Great info once again, Dat.

It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
 
Bobaslaw said:
Great info once again, Dat.

It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! They even discovered recently that it is low but rising estrogen (not testosterone) levels that are responsible for puberty growth spurts in males and it is high levels of estrogen (not testosterone) that stop growth by closing the plates.

There are no negative hormones. Prolactin even has a role to play.

In the end the body has its sh1t together far more than you, I or the $49.99 product sold by the supplement company.
 
Bobaslaw said:
Great info once again, Dat.

It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
Click to expand...


This is very true. Anybody that has gone over board with an AI before can attest to the importance of some estrogen in your system.
 
datBtrue said:
Of course you do ...thats what makes you Papa. ;)
Click to expand...

Yes that's what I was meaning when I said to not post things to put off the already fragile person that he is. Being far too precise in my book .Better to just inject it and forget it!

Oh look, no grammar mistakes dat. :p
 
Bobaslaw said:
Great info once again, Dat.

It certainly is food for thought to the stereotypical misconceptions that certain hormones are solely attributed as "negative" (ex. cortisol, estrogen, etc).
Unless levels of any particular hormone are extreme (for whatever reasons), leaving the body to determine the optimal balance seems ideal IMO.
Click to expand...

bob is very right about that papa. I think your best bet to combat cortisol would be Mega dose Ester C(12-15g per day) spaced out evenly and Mega dose Bulk Cissus poweder. This will provide just enough cortisol suppression while not hampering it's synergistic effects on other hormones. By the way I am on bulk cissus and the ester C as well because of the bankhart tear reapir I just had and the funny thing is, I got leaner while expending less energy and eating plenty.
 
pumbertot said:
Oh look, no grammar mistakes dat. :p
Click to expand...

Nice of you to make the effort in every thread but mine.


pumbertot said:
Better to just inject it and forget it!
Click to expand...

Yep and then go lift some weight properly.

Here's my thread on how to do it "properly". See my last two really frick'in cool posts in that thread... :afro:

Invalid Link Removed
 
Dosed 500mcg last night.....got flushing (the primary feeling of pressure/tightness around neck, heated feeling, and some sweating) so I'm assuming the products were shipped as labeled. Blood pressure after injection was fine (100/75) and it continued to be on the lower-end ~2 hrs later. I then dosed regular mcgs (100 CJC/300GHRP) this morning. I was going to do a "nooner", but I think I'll save it for this evening since I have enough CJC floating around and I only shoot CJC/GHRP using 1 syringe, so I can't do just GHRP at noon. I will decrease dosages by 50% starting tomorrow, so I will then be shooting: 50mcg CJC/150mcg GHRP to see if BP and headaches disappear. If so, I will work my way up to 100/300.
 
pumbertot said:
Yes that's what I was meaning when I said to not post things to put off the already fragile person that he is. Being far too precise in my book .Better to just inject it and forget it!

Oh look, no grammar mistakes dat. :p
Click to expand...


You two are REAL pieces of work, you know that? Come up in my log all pissin' & moanin' about how overly precise and whatnot I am. Then you excitedly click back to your overly-scientific threads, analyzing graph upon graph and study upon study.....LOL.... I wuv you two!

:p:

:cheers:
 
papapumpsd said:
You two are REAL pieces of work, you know that? Come up in my log all pissin' & moanin' about how overly precise and whatnot I am. Then you excitedly click back to your overly-scientific threads, analyzing graph upon graph and study upon study.....LOL.... I wuv you two!

:p:

:cheers:
Click to expand...


Does this help? :D

Invalid Link Removed
 
papapumpsd said:
Dosed 500mcg last night.....got flushing (the primary feeling of pressure/tightness around neck, heated feeling, and some sweating) so I'm assuming the products were shipped as labeled. Blood pressure after injection was fine (100/75) and it continued to be on the lower-end ~2 hrs later. I then dosed regular mcgs (100 CJC/300GHRP) this morning. I was going to do a "nooner", but I think I'll save it for this evening since I have enough CJC floating around and I only shoot CJC/GHRP using 1 syringe, so I can't do just GHRP at noon. I will decrease dosages by 50% starting tomorrow, so I will then be shooting: 50mcg CJC/150mcg GHRP to see if BP and headaches disappear. If so, I will work my way up to 100/300.
Click to expand...

I hope this works for you, Papa! I'll soon be interrupting a therapeutic GH cycle with a 6-week run of CJC, and I too am prone to headaches and high blood pressure. Needless to say, I'll be watching this thread closely!
 
ragnar said:
I hope this works for you, Papa! I'll soon be interrupting a therapeutic GH cycle with a 6-week run of CJC, and I too am prone to headaches and high blood pressure. Needless to say, I'll be watching this thread closely!
Click to expand...

Hey bud, good luck on your CJC! No GHRP-6 I take it?

How much GH are you dosing and what frequency?

Glad you are following along. Please run a log of your CJC if you have the time. I'd love to read about your experiences :)
 
papapumpsd said:
Hey bud, good luck on your CJC! No GHRP-6 I take it?

How much GH are you dosing and what frequency?

Glad you are following along. Please run a log of your CJC if you have the time. I'd love to read about your experiences :)
Click to expand...

I'm running 4 i.u. of GH every day, which is part of Grunt's protocol for healing herniated discs. I just finished my first month, and Grunt suggested that I use 4 mg of CJC-1295 for a 6-week cycle to break up the GH usage. I'm not sure yet how often I'll do that or whether I'll include GHRP; I have roughly 9 months' worth of GH sitting in my fridge.

As for a log, I doubt that anyone is interested in reading the exploits of an old man with a bum back who is losing strength and size by the week!
 
ragnar said:
I'm running 4 i.u. of GH every day, which is part of Grunt's protocol for healing herniated discs. I just finished my first month, and Grunt suggested that I use 4 mg of CJC-1295 for a 6-week cycle to break up the GH usage. I'm not sure yet how often I'll do that or whether I'll include GHRP; I have roughly 9 months' worth of GH sitting in my fridge.

As for a log, I doubt that anyone is interested in reading the exploits of an old man with a bum back who is losing strength and size by the week!
Click to expand...

I think you are quite mistaken there Rag. Look at Pumb....he's using CJC/GHRP (along with other agents) and is having "miraculous" results. He just had a tendon replaced after a full rupture (correct me if I'm wrong Pumby). He has been laid off from doing any upper-body heavy workouts and has just recently started doing light weight exercises for triceps. He's been nearly maintaining his pre-surgery bodyweight and credits it largely to peptides.

Furthermore, there will most likely be others who experience injury and will be interested in data supporting GH's and CJCss (and other peptides') ability to heal, as well as dosing protocols, results, sides, etc.

Your log would be very valuable!
 
I keep going back and laughing at Boba's graph...I really don't think anyone would find that funny if that hadn't spent as much time as us in this forum looking at Dat's and papa's graphs. :D
 
SoCo4Fun said:
I keep going back and laughing at Boba's graph...I really don't think anyone would find that funny if that hadn't spent as much time as us in this forum looking at Dat's and papa's graphs. :D
Click to expand...

I have to admit that was pretty funny. :lol:
 
LMAO, wonder how long it took to make that, probably twice as long as it should have cause he was dying of laughter like us the whole time.... that was great.
 
LoL! Thanks guys.

Just as I read Papa's post, I realized that all he really wanted was to see the "pissin' and moanin" properly represented, dammit! ;)
 
10/15/2008

Dosed 50mcg CJC and 300mcg GHRP-6 this morning. I will also dose this amount around 1-2pm today. Then, this evening, based on BP readings, I may drop to 50/150. If no headache and BP is ok, I will continue at 50/300.

X-tra stuff
I came across this journal: "GROWTH HORMONE & IGF RESEARCH"

Description
Growth Hormone & IGF Research is a forum for research on the regulation of growth and metabolism in humans, animals, tissues and cells. It publishes articles on all aspects of growth-promoting and growth-inhibiting hormones and factors, with particular emphasis on insulin-like growth factors (IGFs) and growth hormone. This reflects the increasing importance of growth hormone and IGFs in clinical medicine and in the treatment of diseases.

source & pricing: Invalid Link Removed
 
papapumpsd said:
X-tra stuff
I came across this journal: "GROWTH HORMONE & IGF RESEARCH"
Click to expand...

Its not as exciting a journal as you might imagine. I pull from it where it is relevant but it often isn't.

Here are the articles in the October issue:

Dietary conjugated linoleic acid increases PPAR? gene expression in adipose tissue of obese rat, and improves insulin resistance

Inflammatory cytokines in juvenile idiopathic arthritis: Effects on physical growth and the insulin-like-growth factor axis.
Functional maturation of growth hormone cells in the anterior pituitary gland of the fetus

Prevalence of discordant GH and IGF-I levels in acromegalics at diagnosis, after surgical treatment and during treatment with octreotide LAR®

Efficacy and safety of individualized growth hormone treatment in adult Japanese patients with growth hormone deficiency

Diabetic osteopathy and the IGF system in the Goto–Kakizaki rat

The atypical a2ß2 IGF receptor expressed in inducible c2.7 myoblasts is derived from post-translational modifications of the mouse IGF-I receptor

Developmental changes and the impact of isoflavones on mRNA expression of IGF-I receptor, EGF receptor and related growth factors in porcine skeletal muscle cell cultures

Nonalcoholic fatty liver in patients with Laron syndrome and GH gene deletion – Preliminary report

Relationship between growth hormone in vivo bioactivity, the insulin-like growth factor-I system and bone mineral density in young, physically fit men and women

Somatostatin analog treatment is associated with an increased sleep latency in patients with long-term biochemical remission of acromegaly​
 
10/15/08
Slept okay last night actually. I admined 50mcg CJC and 300mcg GHRP that day 2x (no nooner). My BP has stabilized as well (~125/75) with very little (~<500mg) to no Hawthorn Berry.

I do have a slight feeling of neck/head pressure so my BP may be elevated somewhat right now. I will check BP when I get home. I do not have a headache though!
:clap2:
 
10/17/2008

Morning BP was 117/78 or so. Very nice.

Also, I have started pinning abs less on the oblique areas and more toward the upper-inner areas. That seems to help w/injection comfort and bruising. I think I just have veins closer to my fat in the obliques areas and I prob. jab through one which of course leads to bruising. Some of these bruises are just nasty....not like Pumb's pec tear, but for a 29ga needle, they're ugly suckers.

EDIT (addition): I have a slight headache right now. Dammit. Feels like it's emenating from the occipital area. Right side-ish.
 
papapumpsd said:
10/17/2008
Morning BP was 117/78 or so. Very nice.
Click to expand...

True story, went to one of my post op doctors appointments today to get felt up and such, & my blood pressure was 138/80. Just thought I'd throw that out there for some general info since you guys have been talking about this stuff's effect on blood pressure and all.
 
wophood said:
True story, went to one of my post op doctors appointments today to get felt up and such, & my blood pressure was 138/80. Just thought I'd throw that out there for some general info since you guys have been talking about this stuff's effect on blood pressure and all.
Click to expand...

Benchmarking against my typical readings (my normals), you're slightly elevated. Did you Dr. mention anything about your BP? Thanks for sharing too!

FYI for those following along:

There are several categories of blood pressure, including:

Normal: Less than 120/80
Prehypertension: 120-139/80-89
Stage 1 hypertension: 140-159/90-99
Stage 2 hypertension: 160 and above/100 and above

source: Invalid Link Removed
 
papapumpsd said:
Benchmarking against my typical readings (my normals), you're slightly elevated. Did you Dr. mention anything about your BP? Thanks for sharing too!

FYI for those following along:

There are several categories of blood pressure, including:

Normal: Less than 120/80
Prehypertension: 120-139/80-89
Stage 1 hypertension: 140-159/90-99
Stage 2 hypertension: 160 and above/100 and above

source: Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

He mentioned briefly that my pressure was a little high, but then dismissed it as he thought it was no big deal. All my readings in the past have been pretty ideal, as in below 120/80. I'm not to worried about it. No headaches, or what feels to be a "head erection" ever, so...

lol
 
papapumpsd said:
Benchmarking against my typical readings (my normals), you're slightly elevated. Did you Dr. mention anything about your BP? Thanks for sharing too!

FYI for those following along:

There are several categories of blood pressure, including:

Normal: Less than 120/80
Prehypertension: 120-139/80-89
Stage 1 hypertension: 140-159/90-99
Stage 2 hypertension: 160 and above/100 and above

source: Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

ive never realy understood how to compare my blood pressure to this chart mine is on average 160/70 which confuses the crap out of me :frustrate
 
gunz said:
ive never realy understood how to compare my blood pressure to this chart mine is on average 160/70 which confuses the crap out of me :frustrate
Click to expand...

You may have "Isolated Systolic Hypertention" (look this up) and it should be just as great a concern even though your diastolic is normal/low. Yes, I know most people believe that "diastolic" is a more serious indicator, BUT chronicly elevated systolic will eventually "do you in" as well.

There are many possible reasons for this, all of which need some serious attention especially since you say this is "on average".

Commonly one of the reasons may be due to arteriosclerosis which limits the arterial elasticity, thus the BP takes a spike during a beat as the arterial walls do not have aenough "give".

There are other reasons and I suggest you have this seriously looked at.

Take Care.
 
gunz said:
ive never realy understood how to compare my blood pressure to this chart mine is on average 160/70 which confuses the crap out of me :frustrate
Click to expand...

That seems awfully......odd. What does your Dr. say about your 160/70? How did you get that measurement?
 
the drug store guy takes my reading every time i go in there it costs 5 bucks so i always figure why not.....i have a doc appointment in 3 days for a pre h-drol blood test so ill probally bring it up then
 
Bobaslaw said:
Not odd. Isolated Systolic Hypertention is very real and serious, Papa.
(I think we posted responses at the same time so see above) :)
Click to expand...

Well, it was "odd" to me in that I've never heard of such a BP reading. But I'll take your word that it's serious. Wasn't making light of it by any means.

Good to hear you're going to see your Dr. soon. Hope all turns out well :)
 
Since I had elevated BP yesterday, I'm down to 50mcg CJC/150mcg GHRP-6 3x ED. So far today has been good :)

I'm also back on Hawthorn on an as needed basis.

This morning's BP: ~115/75

IT'S MUH BIRFDAYYY!!!! 31!!! :dance::djparty:
 
papapumpsd said:
Since I had elevated BP yesterday, I'm down to 50mcg CJC/150mcg GHRP-6 3x ED. So far today has been good :)

I'm also back on Hawthorn on an as needed basis.

This morning's BP: ~115/75

IT'S MUH BIRFDAYYY!!!! 31!!! :dance::djparty:
Click to expand...

I'm a few days behind on the boards and just saw the last several posts in this thread. Happy belated birthday, Papa!

I'm glad to hear that the blood pressure is stable. Now to conquer those headaches!
 
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