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Our Favorite AAS

bigbeaph said:
That's what I was getting at. Yes I did get some size and strength, but it wasnt at all what I expected. I'd say something like 500 test and 400 nandrolone would hands down be better than 900 test.
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Right, every time you double your test dose you get maybe 30% return if that.

Professional coaches won’t even start a guy under 1200mg test plus deca on top of that and they say we’re the ones using crazy high dosages.
 
One of the best things an advanced guy could do is 400-600 test, 600-800eq, 400-600dhb (1:1 test dose), each week, and 75-150 NPP EOD-ED if looking to pack on the pounds fast.

I say advanced for two reasons even though these compounds are all easy to deal with, one mainly is the ai dose must be on point and so you have to know how to dial that in obviously. Two, is if you don’t just use the npp as a kickstart, and then also run it long, the shutdown will be very very difficult to recover from for most. NPP in this scenario would be run the first 6-8 weeks and the rest of the cycle would ideally last at least another four to eight weeks if not twelve more.
 
Chados said:
Yeah some people say so. I felt it on tren though. You mean 500 not 5000 right before bed? That would be not only hard but really bad haha
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No I mean 5000 lol. For now it is how I'm making up for lost calories since becoming allergic to lactose a couple weeks ago. Last nights dinner consisted of 3 double bacon cheeseburgers loaded up, a tray of 4 giant muffins about 400 calories a piece, and no idea how many bananas and apples. Easily over 4000....this has been a pretty consistent before bed meal for a little more than a week now. Makes for a wonderful morning bowel movement.
 
Old Witch said:
It’s primary effect seems to be increasing the red blood cells and not much else. The hunger comes from that, if it happens, which it doesn’t for many. It’s less anabolic than testosterone, less estrogenic, and less androgenic. It doesn’t give great strength gains in a short time, it definitely doesn’t bulk as fast as test, and even more especially not as fast as dhb it’s 5a reduced counterpart.

It’s great to add in with other stuff, really worthless as the main attraction. It’s feel-good though, so that’s a major plus.

Why is it worthless as the main attraction? Well, even with doubling your test dose at over a gram it doesn’t become strong enough to work quickly, instead what happens is you have to donate blood every six weeks and your iron drops low, meanwhile you can’t dial in your ai and keep getting nosebleeds.

So keep it around 600mg and stack it with test and something dry.
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Looking at the androgenic anabolic ratio made in rats or prostate doesn't equate to muscle-building. Equipoise isn't strong true but it's very effective at keeping yourself lean throughout a cycle. You can take primo which is much weaker than test mg/mg but the gains you make with primo is gonna be nicer than the test regardless, it just takes more out of you personally. Adding something like epo to a steroid cycle is very beneficial but dangerous so eq is sort of a replacement with some benefits but also some negatives. All in saying that if test wasn't test, nobody would use it during a cycle.

A cycle with test eq deca would instead be something like eq deca primo if any of these could do what test does
 
Cgkone said:
Because primo and mast are basically the same.....at least what I've been told.
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Primo is better tho. Mast is more of a hardener but while mast gives 0 size primo does a little. None of these would be a staple of mine except if primo was cheap lol
 
Chados said:
Primo is better tho. Mast is more of a hardener but while mast gives 0 size primo does a little. None of these would be a staple of mine except if primo was cheap lol
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I'm not sure about the science and the chemicals but I've just been told by a few people that mast and Primo are basically the same thing
 
LaserGoPewPew said:
thats confusing .. i was under the assumption Test was the gold standard.

why would it be the worst compared to others you listed
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Test is the oldest steroid and is not even called a steroid. The other steroids are derivatives of test. They basically took testosterone and improved it by changing the structure. Test is good to replace your testosterone and important to many people during a cycle but it doesn't mean it will yield more size than others, cut more fat etc etc. Tren is an easy example, it's arguably the best steroid out there but it's also rough on the body.

Ill explain it to a very basic degree now. If you eat 2.5k calories clean diet and that's your perfect diet and you add test you might wanna increase these calories to 3000 or even more. You'd be able to use this nutrition to a higher degree, more protein, train more, recover faster etc. Now say you use tren which will make your body use food to an even higher degree you will then increase the calories to the same you did with test. What's the difference? Chances are you'd gain more weight but less muscles on the test because tren would take this food and use it more efficiently than the test. You don't gain any water or fat that you did with test but more muscles and this mean you can eat even more food and still look better than you did on the test Cycle.

The more gear you take the more your metabolism increase and you'd actually lose weight but still build muscles so to gain more with more gear contradictory to belief you must eat more and not less to actually gain weight rather than losing. So if you take 500mg test and 500mg tren the tren would be (more gear) in that regard.

This wasn't very scientifically described but I hope it makes sense
 
Cgkone said:
I'm not sure about the science and the chemicals but I've just been told by a few people that mast and Primo are basically the same thing
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Sort of, but you could say the same with tren it's just different levels

Mast-primo-tren
 
Cgkone said:
I'm not sure about the science and the chemicals but I've just been told by a few people that mast and Primo are basically the same thing
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You meant proviron and mast, right? Primo is a completely different animal.
 
Chados said:
Looking at the androgenic anabolic ratio made in rats or prostate doesn't equate to muscle-building. Equipoise isn't strong true but it's very effective at keeping yourself lean throughout a cycle. You can take primo which is much weaker than test mg/mg but the gains you make with primo is gonna be nicer than the test regardless, it just takes more out of you personally. Adding something like epo to a steroid cycle is very beneficial but dangerous so eq is sort of a replacement with some benefits but also some negatives. All in saying that if test wasn't test, nobody would use it during a cycle.

A cycle with test eq deca would instead be something like eq deca primo if any of these could do what test does
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I wasn’t talking about the A:A ratio. I was talking about in actual usage mg for mg.
 
Cgkone said:
Because primo and mast are basically the same.....at least what I've been told.
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Not at all. If anti estrogenic effect is what you want then, mast > primo, but if low sides and long winded cycles are your thing then primo > mast by far and away.
 
If we’re talking about effective leaning throughout cycle, hunger induction, and low sides, I’d say primo > EQ.
 
It’s like this: testosterone is extremely anabolic at high dosages, but between about 500 and 1200 the anabolism doesn’t really increase, just the side effects. Above 1200 is where it really becomes anabolic enough to merit all the “test is best” crap you see from Dave palumbo saying it’s more anabolic than anything else. Above 2g is extremely diminishing returns unless you’re Bostin Loyd and think your gear is fake.

At 1200-2000mg a week testosterone is also extremely unhealthy and as hard to deal with as deca for side effects.
 
Old Witch said:
Not at all. If anti estrogenic effect is what you want then, mast > primo, but if low sides and long winded cycles are your thing then primo > mast by far and away.
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He's just talking about the look you get. They all have this sort of tren look going on but while tren would be way more effective, primo, mast and Proviron can kinda do a very mild trenformulation (see what I did there) if you're jacked to begin with.
 
Chados said:
No offense but test is literally the worst compound and nobody needs 1gr
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That is your opinion and you are entitled to have it. But the worst? Nobody needs 1gr? lol okay. No need to argue such an opinated subject, even if individualistic reasonsing are in place.

And there are things that are better at times than others, but test is tried and true. Plus you can easily get bloods done to check if it is legit. Where other things you would need to use a lab to test the compound. I love tren and I mean love it, think it could very well be better than test, but with the mental sides and health risks compared to test makes me side more with test
 
Abe Lincoln said:
That is your opinion and you are entitled to have it. But the worst? Nobody needs 1gr? lol okay. No need to argue such an opinated subject, even if individualistic reasonsing are in place.

And there are things that are better at times than others, but test is tried and true. Plus you can easily get bloods done to check if it is legit. Where other things you would need to use a lab to test the compound. I love tren and I mean love it, think it could very well be better than test, but with the mental sides and health risks compared to test makes me side more with test
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Don't get me wrong I don't mind you having an opinion I just find it confusing whenever someone says test is the king. I mean it's not even an opinion I have, it's just not as effective. I love primo and eq more than tren but I know tren would be stronger than both those together regardless.

Test is like water you'll need it, but you'd still pick the steak and the beer if you wanted size.
 
Chados said:
Don't get me wrong I don't mind you having an opinion I just find it confusing whenever someone says test is the king. I mean it's not even an opinion I have, it's just not as effective. I love primo and eq more than tren but I know tren would be stronger than both those together regardless.

Test is like water you'll need it, but you'd still pick the steak and the beer if you wanted size.
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I’m not saying it isn’t as effective as tren or some other things but I’m also looking at risks. Tren and the other AAS are almost nothing if you want size, just do slin + hgh and don’t care if it is all muscle. But slin can kill you so benefit v risk ratio I find better on test.

So by best I’m not saying strongest. I think when you hear best you think strongest. I think best ratio of benefits vs risk and to me test is one of the safest, but I’m sure you could debate that.

If I wanted size test, tren, adrol, slin, hgh, and food. I wouldn’t just do test if I wanted to be as big as possible, which I never said. Test is the backbone which I can agree with.
 
BarryBondsHOF said:
Be careful, a lot of really big guys will get pissed you said that. I like how divided people are on this topic; it seems to be the most hotly contested topic by AAS users. I want to try running a gram one day to see how it feels. May be bad
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Im one of those guys. When I was powerlifting and was walking around at 360..test was my go to...blasting with P before meets and Anadrol off and on. Now that im cutting down I see the benefit of other compounds a lot easier.
 
Abe Lincoln said:
I’m not saying it isn’t as effective as tren or some other things but I’m also looking at risks. Tren and the other AAS are almost nothing if you want size, just do slin + hgh and don’t care if it is all muscle. But slin can kill you so benefit v risk ratio I find better on test.

So by best I’m not saying strongest. I think when you hear best you think strongest. I think best ratio of benefits vs risk and to me test is one of the safest, but I’m sure you could debate that.

If I wanted size test, tren, adrol, slin, hgh, and food. I wouldn’t just do test if I wanted to be as big as possible, which I never said. Test is the backbone which I can agree with.
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Yeah..
I exploded from 750 test 50 Anadrol and 25 units of Novalin R pwo
 
Abe Lincoln said:
I’m not saying it isn’t as effective as tren or some other things but I’m also looking at risks. Tren and the other AAS are almost nothing if you want size, just do slin + hgh and don’t care if it is all muscle. But slin can kill you so benefit v risk ratio I find better on test.

So by best I’m not saying strongest. I think when you hear best you think strongest. I think best ratio of benefits vs risk and to me test is one of the safest, but I’m sure you could debate that.

If I wanted size test, tren, adrol, slin, hgh, and food. I wouldn’t just do test if I wanted to be as big as possible, which I never said. Test is the backbone which I can agree with.
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Yeah sure 2gr of test is probably safer than 1gr of tren but when you dose test that high it still isn't safe and is it safer with 1gr of test than 300mg of tren? Debatable. Everything in moderation.
 
swimfan65 said:
Im one of those guys. When I was powerlifting and was walking around at 360..test was my go to...blasting with P before meets and Anadrol off and on. Now that im cutting down I see the benefit of other compounds a lot easier.
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It'd be hard to add size on a massive amount of tren and anadrol, the bodies metabolism would be of the charts. Might be good for you since you eat like a truck but for the average person it's way too much gear.
 
Chados said:
It'd be hard to add size on a massive amount of tren and anadrol, the bodies metabolism would be of the charts. Might be good for you since you eat like a truck but for the average person it's way too much gear.
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Honestly...i feel great right now on 250 Test E, 400 Tren A and 20mgs of SD pwo. Looking way bigger than ever and Im almost under 300lbs..strong as hell..cutting cut up. And hey..i bet you eat more than me now. Probably around 3k super clean...chicken rice and beans and eggs...thats really about it. Up to 45min to an hour of cardio a day...feel fantastic
 
swimfan65 said:
Honestly...i feel great right now on 250 Test E, 400 Tren A and 20mgs of SD pwo. Looking way bigger than ever and Im almost under 300lbs..strong as hell..cutting cut up. And hey..i bet you eat more than me now. Probably around 3k super clean...chicken rice and beans and eggs...thats really about it. Up to 45min to an hour of cardio a day...feel fantastic
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That's a good cycle for sure. I eat 3.5-4k year round. Doesn't change that much. I eat extremely clean but I've come to the conclusion I sometimes eat too clean, the bigger you get the more in need of sugar you are, so kinda adjusting as I go. I figured you're not eating that crazy now but to maintain weight at 300+ you'd have to eat quite the amount.

I always felt tren is far easier to handle during a cut as long as you don't under eat. Too much carbs = huge night sweats and too little calories = low blood sugar
 
Old Witch said:
Well, in my experience about 20 weeks is when it finally tops out and you don’t seem to get more, between weeks 3-4 and week 20 though it’s steady growth that gets more and more rapid then tapers off rapidly in the final week or two. It can be overwhelming when it finally kicks in, be prepared to buy new pants.

It’s like tren, if tren wasn’t so bad for you, or even more so like primobolan if it were actually really strong. Best description I can give. In the right circumstances it can put serious weight on, and it will harden you up the whole time. So by the end of the cycle the new muscle has matured to a significant degree and so it will not be as easy to lose during or after pct, so long as dietary needs are met etc. Owing also in part to the length of the cycle.
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Appreciate the info, Old Witch. If I want to avoid bloat but at the same time also mitigate lethargy and promote positive mental effects (e.g., confidence, outgoingness, more aggressive about pursuing girls -- since I will be on vacation for school about 5-6 weeks into the cycle and around girls), do you think it would basically be a no-brainer to inject a low dose of test (maybe 200 mg/wk) throughout the cycle?

Also, what's your opinion on throwing in an oral kickstarter? Looking at either TBol (which I now have experience with) or Anavar.

Thanks
 
swimfan65 said:
Honestly...i feel great right now on 250 Test E, 400 Tren A and 20mgs of SD pwo. Looking way bigger than ever and Im almost under 300lbs..strong as hell..cutting cut up. And hey..i bet you eat more than me now. Probably around 3k super clean...chicken rice and beans and eggs...thats really about it. Up to 45min to an hour of cardio a day...feel fantastic
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SD as pre workout, how’s that?
 
SpicedCider said:
Appreciate the info, Old Witch. If I want to avoid bloat but at the same time also mitigate lethargy and promote positive mental effects (e.g., confidence, outgoingness, more aggressive about pursuing girls -- since I will be on vacation for school about 5-6 weeks into the cycle and around girls), do you think it would basically be a no-brainer to inject a low dose of test (maybe 200 mg/wk) throughout the cycle?

Also, what's your opinion on throwing in an oral kickstarter? Looking at either TBol (which I now have experience with) or Anavar.

Thanks
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Kickstarts are good. I prefer anavar but half the anavar in the world is faked and actually tbol or DBol or winny anyway. It just seems to have some of the strongest pumps, which makes it an ideal kickstart, because those pumps will stretch the fascia quickly.
 
And yes, 150-250mg test would be good. Whatever is easiest with your gear concentration. I try to just base doses on what I have available in concentration and I never like to use an uneven amount, such as 250mg when the oil is 200mg/ml. I’d just use 200 in that case or vice verse.
 
Chados said:
Yeah sure 2gr of test is probably safer than 1gr of tren but when you dose test that high it still isn't safe and is it safer with 1gr of test than 300mg of tren? Debatable. Everything in moderation.
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Depends on the handles. Some people can't handle tren because of the many reasons. On higher dose of tren I've almost ****ed lady boys and ended up doing it once. So, I try to keep tren lower or none at all.

Off subject, but I put a significant amount of weight on using tren and anadrol, tho I can force feed myself. MK677 helps with appetite or HGH if you got the money for sure. Tren and Adrol cycle was one of my best cycles was 5'9 215lbs with abs if flexing, got sloppy tho so trying to get back up there.
 
I got a lot of favorites and not so many favorites. As I’ve aged I’ve realized my body just can’t take strong orals anymore... decreased apetite, lethargy, horrible indigestion, etc... With that being said I went out on a limb and tossed in Phera starting at 20mg split dosed then upping to 30mg along with 600mg primo E and 300 test e (current run btw). I was deathly afraid of the sides from Phera but after 3 weeks absolutely zero sides besides slight heartburn and strength and size went through the roof. I blast and cruise btw so gains are not so pronounced, but holy Phera!! Pumped that I found an oral I can deal with. It’s SD without the sides and a little wetter, but not much. Then just 3 weeks into the run I drilled through my finger with a spade bit then got the flu so discontinued Phera but continued to run Primo and test. So after 3 weeks out of the gym I just went back in yesterday and restarted Phera at 30mg lol!! A real nice compound for a somewhat clean winter bulk while adding **** tons of strength!! So Phera is my new favorite. FYI, I missed the Phera craze when it was overshadowed by SD 15 years ago...
 
Abe Lincoln said:
Depends on the handles. Some people can't handle tren because of the many reasons. On higher dose of tren I've almost ****ed lady boys and ended up doing it once. So, I try to keep tren lower or none at all.

Off subject, but I put a significant amount of weight on using tren and anadrol, tho I can force feed myself. MK677 helps with appetite or HGH if you got the money for sure. Tren and Adrol cycle was one of my best cycles was 5'9 215lbs with abs if flexing, got sloppy tho so trying to get back up there.
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Yes tren with any bulking oral is massive. If you eat right and work out hard it can really make you look like a bodybuilder and not just another big gym guy.
 
Abe Lincoln said:
Depends on the handles. Some people can't handle tren because of the many reasons. On higher dose of tren I've almost ****ed lady boys and ended up doing it once. So, I try to keep tren lower or none at all.

Off subject, but I put a significant amount of weight on using tren and anadrol, tho I can force feed myself. MK677 helps with appetite or HGH if you got the money for sure. Tren and Adrol cycle was one of my best cycles was 5'9 215lbs with abs if flexing, got sloppy tho so trying to get back up there.
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Good to see you around Abe... Its been a while.

But let me get this straight... You once ****ed a lady boy.... Because of the tren sides?
 
Old Witch said:
And yes, 150-250mg test would be good. Whatever is easiest with your gear concentration. I try to just base doses on what I have available in concentration and I never like to use an uneven amount, such as 250mg when the oil is 200mg/ml. I’d just use 200 in that case or vice verse.
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Thanks again for the advice Old Witch. Based on the gear concentration (100 mg/ml, I believe), 200 mg/week will be easy to dose. I know it's good to have one on hand, but in your opinion, do you think an AI will be necessary at that dose?

BTW, I'm planning on using test prop as the test base since it kicks in sooner and *may* be less likely to promote bloat (although I know you said you think the bloat thing is a myth). Having said that, do you think every other day injections will be frequent enough?

Thanks again
 
SpicedCider said:
Thanks again for the advice Old Witch. Based on the gear concentration (100 mg/ml, I believe), 200 mg/week will be easy to dose. I know it's good to have one on hand, but in your opinion, do you think an AI will be necessary at that dose?

BTW, I'm planning on using test prop as the test base since it kicks in sooner and *may* be less likely to promote bloat (although I know you said you think the bloat thing is a myth). Having said that, do you think every other day injections will be frequent enough?

Thanks again
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EOD might be a bit light for prop. It’s been done though for sure. If it was acetate, then that would work much better for that though.
 
Old Witch said:
EOD might be a bit light for prop. It’s been done though for sure. If it was acetate, then that would work much better for that though.
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So a low dose (e.g., ~30 mg) injected every single day is a better idea if using test prop? Btw, do you think an AI would be necessary at 200-210 mg/wk?
 
SpicedCider said:
Isn't that going to be like 500+ mg per week, though? Or is that how much test prop it takes to reach an equivalent 200 mg/wk dosage of test enanthate or whatever?
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You just said 200 EOD.... 100ED = 200mg eod.

Prop only lasts a day. So...
 
SpicedCider said:
Isn't that going to be like 500+ mg per week, though? Or is that how much test prop it takes to reach an equivalent 200 mg/wk dosage of test enanthate or whatever?
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Oh, you said 200mg a week of prop. Got it. Yeah then splitting into 25mg doses is probably best. My bad. Work day.
 
Old Witch said:
Oh, you said 200mg a week of prop. Got it. Yeah then splitting into 25mg doses is probably best. My bad. Work day.
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Thanks, and no problem. I'm the king of making typos when in a sleep-deprived state. Hey, look at the bright side... maybe one day I'll be legit enough to inject test prop (or any kind of test, for that matter) at a dose of 100 mg+ per day.
 
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