OTC PCT
- Thread starter R1balla
- Start date
FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
I would say keep taking it to give your body as much of an anabolic edge as possible in pct.
mr.cooper69
Legend
This. Just do Erase Pro + Toco 8 with the serm. No need for anything else.
mattrag
Legend
Some like a REALLY strong PCT, some say anything but a SERM, AI, and staples (especially minerals and vitamins) are a waste of money in PCT. It's really up to you. But not having a serm in it... is kinda out of the question.
schizm
Well-known member
ErasePro = AI/cort control
TCF-1 = DAA
Serms are inexpensive and rather easy to get, I'd rather have it in the mix...along with ErasePro/DAA...and might as well finish out your Anabeta...
kevinhy
Well-known member
Id definitely just run what you have there. Andromass is not a ridiculously suppressive product, so that will be more than enough.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
What you have there looks great and finish out the AnaBeta. SERMs are not safe or healthy and should only be used if absolutely necessary.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
agree 100%. i have nolva and clomid, but im choosing not to use it because its only andromass, not mdrol or dbol
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
Unsafe because and not healthy because? And running PH's are safe and healthy?
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
This has been debated to death. No, PHs should also be treated with respect and caution and I have always said that. I didn't say to never run a SERM. They have their place and serve their purpose, but should not be suggested as if they were Flinstones vitamins. The term PH is too damn broad and general to say that every one of them requires a SERM. And if your justification is that what the person is already doing is unhealthy and using another compound that has a whole other list of negative sides is the answer to the problem, then we can agree to disagree.
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
We can agree to disagree thats fair enough. In my opinion a SERM is always important cause its not only for estrogen but it helps your HPTA to start producing test again. Now i'm not saying something like DAA doesn't have its place but there has been plenty of blood work to show a SERM works. While i haven't seen a blood work, work up for a standard OTC stack that has been proven to work.
T-Bone
Banned
100% Agreed. Some people just like to play follow the leader and just jump on the SERM bandwagon. There are many over the counter products that work the same as an actual SERM. Triazole comes to mind....As far as bloodwork yes I have seen bloodwork proving the Triazole works.
808shredded
Active member
R1balla, when I ask for advice months ago about pct, you replied with "always use a serm" in pct. Now u are contradicting yourself.
R1balla
Board Sponsor
i dont have proof cause i threw it away, but a while back i took the TRS stack and bloodwork was impressive
R1balla
Board Sponsor
always use a serm with methylated compounds or AAS, sure. with androseries, i can 100% GUARANTEE I did not say use a serm. what compound were you talking about? and if you just said "i took a cycle and now i need pct, what do i do?" then of course im taking a "cycle" as AAS so yes, use a SERM
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
Okay you can quote that but its been shown hCG during cycle works, that a SERM works. And remember this is coming from an owner who wants you to take his products cause it makes him money. But if you want to throw that out there that same owner also says to use a SERM for PCT and hCG during cycle to prevent shut down. So take your pick there.
kevinhy
Well-known member
Yeah, they work - but with their use comes their own intrinsic toxicity.
Its just not necessary to use a SERM for every cycle because different compounds produce a varying level of serum gonadotropin suppression. Take something like MENT and you'll obviously want to use a SERM because of how profoundly it shuts you down, but something like 11-oxo? It just isnt worth the stress to your body to use one when you're barely suppressed coming off.
The old mantra "better safe than sorry" is a good one, but a little common sense should dictate when erring to the side of caution is really just being a hypochondriac.
In all clinical settings anyway the HPTA typically spontaneously corrects itself, PCT is just an expedited process.
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
I get there is some toxicity issues and side effects that come along with SERM use. But if your smart where you buy, how you dose, and the rest of your PCT you can keep these things limited to as much as possible. But the fact that SERM use has shown its quick and effective at restoring your bodies HPTA you have a better chance at keeping your gains this way in my opinion. Your test production will come back with some nattytestbooster but at what cost is all i'm saying. There is no proven OTC method that has shown to work over and over again like a SERM.
Yes you could go by the fact SD, Boladrol and other harsh compounds need SERMS and other PH's like 11-oxo and such don't need it. But even then most people run Andro Series for 8 weeks to see the gains and i don't think OTC PCT is necessarily going to work. Cause you suppressed yourself for a good amount of time so why not get things going as soon as possible. Plus lots of people run SD at 4 weeks just cause its only 4 weeks doesn't mean you shouldn't look into things like hCG and SERM use.
I get better safe than sorry could be a bit paranoid or presumed as a hypochondriac but with all the "Help i think i have gyno" threads there are if the person would of done due diligence instead of listening to some person preaching how great OTC PCT is and got a SERM he wouldn't be in that mess. Even if you just had it on hand.
Aleksandar37
Well-known member
It doesn't matter WHERE you buy the SERM!!! It's a SERM whether you get it from an MD or you get it in some random bottle from a stranger on the net. Stop pretending it is completely safe and magically makes everything better at no risk to the user. You're worried about gyno threads? How about we start a "help I died of a blood clot" or "help I now have cancer" thread, because those are the two biggest risks of taking a SERM. Yes you do risk your health any time you start messing with hormones or walking outside in the morning, but can we seriously stop pretending we can take whatever we want and it all gets balanced out with a SERM? It is not that easy and this is how broscience continues to thrive.
PrepNwa23
Well-known member
Never once said its completely safe i said and i quote "if your smart about where you buy, how you dose it and what you bring along with the rest of your PCT you can keep the side effects and everything that comes with them to a smaller amount." So calm down slugger I never once said they are completely safe. I'm simply implying that if your man enough to start taking a PH then you should be man enough to have a SERM on hand. I'm not saying SERM makes you bullet proof and you sure as hell should know the risk at hand by using one. But again if your taking something like SD or Ment then you should probably educate yourself in everything your getting yourself into. I'm not saying a SERM is going to save the world by any means, but its been proven to work the most efficient in my opinion i'm not saying this is rule of the land, albeit side effects and health concerns that come with it so you should be prepared. OTC PCT hasn't been proven to work indefinitely there is some good products coming out and the industry continues to push forward. Also SERM hasn't been proven to work indefinitely. But you can call it broscience and maybe it is but seeing my before and after blood work using it, knowing that it works is what i stick with. Every supplement runs the risk of something possibly happening to them, thats the risk we take in doing what we do. I could go take plenty of supplements that would lower my BP to dangerous amounts but i don't see people clamoring about that. We can agree to disagree on SERM's and OTC PCT, plenty big enough world for both sides of the argument.
FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
I agree. If a girl is man enough to hit a guy she sure as hell better be man enough to get hit back.
Wait...wrong thread.
Wait...wrong thread.
mattrag
Legend
Hahah!
OP and all those reading~
This will be debated till the bitter end. With nothing but more confusion. If you want to be safe and ask questions that's fine, but their will be no DEFINITE answer. Some pro's like Matt P say a good pharma AI plus injectable Peptides, plus HCG on cycle is all you need. You dodge the SERM there. But then again I am sure most people aren't gonna be injecting HCG on an hdrol cycle. (well yet anyway). Some say a good natty tbooster plus, a good SHBG reducer and a good AI (something like aromasin as you can be on it longer due to it's dosing and less effect on cholesterol) is all you need for anything. But these are "new" ways. SERMs have been around longer. SERMs are hepatoxic and carcinogenic. I am sure we all know this prior to taking them. We are playing with fire, and we choose where we want to be burned. HPGA recovery vs. Liver stress/ life shortening. There will be millions of debates. There are. Do what you want, but just remember... In the end YOU chose to do it.
FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
Transdermal serms and hcg ftw
mattrag
Legend
haha, THIS would be awesome!
FL3X MAGNUM
Legend
R1balla said:
Dood I said yeah lol. Flex approves!
