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OTC Hormone Chart

tnick7 said:
I live in the UK and you can walk into any supplement store, non sell prohormones/steroids of any type. All the more legit UK online retail stores do not sell ph/ds either. The use of AAS is legal in the UK, but the selling of them is a felony. I think that prohormones/steroids are in the same category, hence the only ones really sold in the UK are the ones that are disguised as natural eg MASS TABS, therefore its actually harder to access ph/ds in the UK IMO. However there are no legal issues with M-1T etc etc
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That's weird. I seen tons of UK sites that still sell M1T, 1-AD, 4-AD, etc. There tons of people from the U.S. that buy them and re-sale 'em for obsurd prices here. Which's stupid because if customs stops the shipment one could get a felony charge since those 3 are all scheduled now in the US.
 
BigMfer said:
Where is info on M-DHT?
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I could add it but damn I haven't heard anyone mention it in a long time. Do most run finsteride or dutasteride along with that? Even though I'm not prone to shedding, I've never ran any DHT based product.
 
Ziquor said:
I've noticed tons of newbs and general ?'s lately about how to use compound X without even knowing what it is. Hopefully this chart I made can help clear up some continous general questions. If I'm wrong on any of these or anything needs added let me know.


UPDATED 4-13-08

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UPDATED 4-13-08
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Great info Zig!!!! I got one question, what do you know about 1 AD from ergopharm? I have been looking into it, it is Patrick A. new creation. People on the forums said it was for real. Let me know what youn think... As always the Pens will win the the fukin cup.
 
pez6969 said:
Great info Zig!!!! I got one question, what do you know about 1 AD from ergopharm? I have been looking into it, it is Patrick A. new creation. People on the forums said it was for real. Let me know what youn think... As always the Pens will win the the fukin cup.
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Well as for the NEW Ergopharm 1-AD - PA said that it will be 1-DHEA. PA apparently feels the current one out has some levels of regular DHEA which vary per batch. So, who knows until it's out. To his point if he's correct and he can synthesize 100% pure 1-DHEA then it would be surely much better than a mix of 1-DHEA and DHEA. The old 1-AD converted readily to 1-Test in 1 step. The new 1-DHEA supposedly converts to 1-Test Dione and Diol both, then into 1-Test, so in 2 steps. So in theory a bit higher of a dose would yield the same effect as the original 1-AD. Who know until testing, but when has Pat created something that didn't work?
 
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Interesting. I'll definitely be keeping my eyes open about this new Ergo product. Anyone know when he plans on testing it, and ultimately releasing it?
 
AM07 said:
Interesting. I'll definitely be keeping my eyes open about this new Ergo product. Anyone know when he plans on testing it, and ultimately releasing it?
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Seems like he's testing now. If all goes well I'd imagine the release could be within a week or two since it's slated for 'Spring' of 2008. He said it'll be an 'uphill battle' convincing people due to the typical AMS results everyone's used to.
 
EasyEJL said:
he's not creating this either, just selling it :)
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Right - correction... "sold something that didn't work" :hammer:

He's like the 'Microsoft' of the supplement industry. Take others ideas, improve on them, sell them for profits.
 
StanChampion said:
hmmm I think that is open to debate. I think he was quite the innovator. Matt Cahill, to an extent, as well.
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Yeah PA's innovated many hormones, long ago. Lately he's been more of 'late releaser of the same, only improved' (unless you ask him). But there's only one PA. I sometimes don't understand where he's coming from & why but the industry wouldn't be nearly where it is today without PA.
 
Ziquor said:
Yeah PA's innovated many hormones, long ago. Lately he's been more of 'late releaser of the same, only improved' (unless you ask him). But there's only one PA. I sometimes don't understand where he's coming from & why but the industry wouldn't be nearly where it is today without PA.
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True, but he has been distracted :hammer:The biggest Bro watches him...always!

nice chart you have going :hammer:
 
tnick7 said:
I live in the UK and you can walk into any supplement store, non sell prohormones/steroids of any type. All the more legit UK online retail stores do not sell ph/ds either. The use of AAS is legal in the UK, but the selling of them is a felony. I think that prohormones/steroids are in the same category, hence the only ones really sold in the UK are the ones that are disguised as natural eg MASS TABS, therefore its actually harder to access ph/ds in the UK IMO. However there are no legal issues with M-1T etc etc
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4-AD, 1-T, 19-Nor, 4-OHT, 1-AD are supposed to be legal as research chems in the UK. You should be able to buy those powders as research type products. You'd probably have to order online through a specialty site though. It would seem that UK has had a recent history having designer drugs(hallucinogenics)openly sold in this manner as well.
 
slow-mun said:
4-AD, 1-T, 19-Nor, 4-OHT, 1-AD are supposed to be legal as research chems in the UK. You should be able to buy those powders as research type products. You'd probably have to order online through a specialty site though.
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I seen something like that, wondered if it was 'legit'.
 
Ziquor said:
I seen something like that, wondered if it was 'legit'.
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IME, they are. I have no experience with them as of late. I would assume that they are having the same problems with China as the U.S. if they source from there as well. I.E., they will soon be gone from there from a lack of sources.
 
slow-mun said:
IME, they are. I have no experience with them as of late. I would assume that they are having the same problems with China as the U.S. if they source from there as well. I.E., they will soon be gone from there from a lack of sources.
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Damn MLB & '08 Olympics...
 
Kilosports Trenadrol is still being sold, anyone who can contribute with a profile on Trena?
 
I'm currently running a cycle of halodrol-50 and Orastan-A. I was thinking of adding 11-oxo for the second half of the cycle. Any thoughts?
 
jns said:
Kilosports Trenadrol is still being sold, anyone who can contribute with a profile on Trena?
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17b-methoxy-trenbolone. The Sinner did a profile in his thread. However with the Kilosports version, there's a lot of question to as whether or not it really is 17b-methoxy-trenbolone. From the feedback I've seen, it seem to react very differently than the original Methoxy-TRN.
 
gerby said:
I'm currently running a cycle of halodrol-50 and Orastan-A. I was thinking of adding 11-oxo for the second half of the cycle. Any thoughts?
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If you're bulking I'd say save your money. 11-Oxo is great if you're trying to lean out but I doubt a couple weeks would do anything worthwhile anyhow. Plus a lot of people think of using it in pct for cort control but Ergo suggests not using it during PCT since it can supress natural test production.
 
Ziquor said:
17b-methoxy-trenbolone. The Sinner did a profile in his thread. However with the Kilosports version, there's a lot of question to as whether or not it really is 17b-methoxy-trenbolone. From the feedback I've seen, it seem to react very differently than the original Methoxy-TRN.
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Ok. I have read about the issues with gynecomastia when using Methoxy-TRN, but have there been many users reporting this with Trenadrol?

I have researched it quite a bit, but the logs say very different things. Some people seem to love it, some people are very disappointed. I have read that it can aggravate gynecomastia, but I have not seen any proof of this in the logs?

Also, if gynecomastia is really an issue with this compound, would it be a good idea to use an AI on cycle with the Trenadrol?
 
Ziquor said:
17b-methoxy-trenbolone. The Sinner did a profile in his thread. However with the Kilosports version, there's a lot of question to as whether or not it really is 17b-methoxy-trenbolone. From the feedback I've seen, it seem to react very differently than the original Methoxy-TRN.
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It came out a while back that Trenadrol was 19-norandrost-4,9-diene-3,17-dione, the same ingredient as Finagenix. That's why it was dosed at 30mg/cap and other Methoxy-TRN products were 1.5-2mg/cap.


I still don't think that anyone knows WTF Methoxy-TRN/17b-methoxy-trienbolone really is...
 
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Mass_69 said:
It came out a while back that Trenadrol was 19-norandrost-4,9-diene-3,17-dione, the same ingredient as Finagenix. That's why it was dosed at 30mg/cap and other Methoxy-TRN products were 1.5-2mg/cap.


I still don't think that anyone knows WTF Methoxy-TRN/17b-methoxy-trienbolone really is...
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I have totally missed that! Can you post a link or something? It would be really appreciated.
 
Ziquor said:
If you're bulking I'd say save your money. 11-Oxo is great if you're trying to lean out but I doubt a couple weeks would do anything worthwhile anyhow. Plus a lot of people think of using it in pct for cort control but Ergo suggests not using it during PCT since it can supress natural test production.
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True , I spoke with PA in bb and he told me to avoid 11-oxo on pct but recommends a bridge of 2 weeks between the cycle and pct, and as you know my friend I`ll do that in my current cycle so lets see what is gonna happen...
By the way do you have experience with the 11-oxo?
 
jns said:
I have totally missed that! Can you post a link or something? It would be really appreciated.
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I knew someone would ask that, and I didn't feel like looking for it, but your luck has changed ;)

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Mass_69 said:
It came out a while back that Trenadrol was 19-norandrost-4,9-diene-3,17-dione, the same ingredient as Finagenix. That's why it was dosed at 30mg/cap and other Methoxy-TRN products were 1.5-2mg/cap.


I still don't think that anyone knows WTF Methoxy-TRN/17b-methoxy-trienbolone really is...
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Yeah I heard that before too, I didn't wanna say anything above though in case it failed to make the 'b' list :)
 
nunes said:
True , I spoke with PA in bb and he told me to avoid 11-oxo on pct but recommends a bridge of 2 weeks between the cycle and pct, and as you know my friend I`ll do that in my current cycle so lets see what is gonna happen...
By the way do you have experience with the 11-oxo?
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No that's one thing I've never had in my arsenol. I've know many people who swear by it for a recomp though.
 
So after reading the thread that was posted about Trenadrol, it seems as if it contains Estra-9 (as in finigex) but it does not act like one would expect. Therefore, it is plaussible that it also has been spiked with something. In the thread they suggest Trenbolone?
 
jns said:
So after reading the thread that was posted about Trenadrol, it seems as if it contains Estra-9 (as in finigex) but it does not act like one would expect. Therefore, it is plaussible that it also has been spiked with something. In the thread they suggest Trenbolone?
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May it be spiked with something? Definitely. With all the designers out there I'm sure many of them aren't 'legit'. A popular designer that's out now that many different companies make, has about 4 popular 'main' versions you see and 3 all provide consistent gains. But one of them always seems to lead to more gains, and sides too. PA said in MD that 60% of the designers he tested didn't contain what the label said and many, contained nothing anabolic to speak of...

Could it be spiked with Trenbolone? Definitely not. Trenbolone for one is scheduled, and isn't oral stable/bioavailable in IM form taken orally. And the 17a methyl version, Methyltrienolone, is crazy potent not to mention scheduled & toxic as hell. I once read that Methyltrienolone makes taking mega doses of Anadrol look liver friendly.
 
Ziquor said:
17b-methoxy-trenbolone. The Sinner did a profile in his thread. However with the Kilosports version, there's a lot of question to as whether or not it really is 17b-methoxy-trenbolone. From the feedback I've seen, it seem to react very differently than the original Methoxy-TRN.
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I've never understood the 17b-methoxy-trienbolone thing. First there's so many questions as to whether this compound was ever the real ingredient where it was supposed to be. And then PA, in his MD column said that the methoxy group should not be metabolized to a hydroxy group, and we know that a steroid with a large methoxy group at C17 shouldn't interact with the androgen receptor. So if it really did have effects, it would most likely be through other receptor types (progesterone, glucocorticoid, something else???).

Very confusing, if you ask me...
 
tilerbreaker said:
I've never understood the 17b-methoxy-trienbolone thing. First there's so many questions as to whether this compound was ever the real ingredient where it was supposed to be. And then PA, in his MD column said that the methoxy group should not be metabolized to a hydroxy group, and we know that a steroid with a large methoxy group at C17 shouldn't interact with the androgen receptor. So if it really did have effects, it would most likely be through other receptor types (progesterone, glucocorticoid, something else???).

Very confusing, if you ask me...
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Apparently PA tested some, off record, and found it was a compound that very closely resembled the Dienolone (Estra-4,9) designers, but not exactly. But he said he couldn't identify it 100% since it wasn't exact Dienolone. I'm really hoping he gets a chance to test Methoxy-TST.
 
UPDATE: I decided to add the "Methoxy's" to the chart from all the inquiries for what it's worth. I also made it a bit more clear.
 
it was pretty interesting when I started looking for info on it, almost seems like it was a victim of timing. it came out right around when superdrol did and superdrol (rightfully so in some ways) got all the attention
 
EasyEJL said:
it was pretty interesting when I started looking for info on it, almost seems like it was a victim of timing. it came out right around when superdrol did and superdrol (rightfully so in some ways) got all the attention
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Updated for Easy :)
 
Ziquor said:
. And the 17a methyl version, Methyltrienolone, is crazy potent not to mention scheduled & toxic as hell. I once read that Methyltrienolone makes taking mega doses of Anadrol look liver friendly.
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haha, would not be so friendly to the customer....spiking a product with something like that=)
 
I am a newbie - so I greatly appreciate this post! Although I may never use test directly... I do use test suppliments - although I haven't seen anything work yet.
 
I'm lovin' my PharmaPro Maxodrol!!!

I'm lovin' my PharmaPro Maxodrol! I'm up to 220 in 10 days!
 
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EasyEJL said:
it was pretty interesting when I started looking for info on it, almost seems like it was a victim of timing. it came out right around when superdrol did and superdrol (rightfully so in some ways) got all the attention
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Actually Easy, mdien came out a year or 2 before Superdrol, around the same time as MOHN, shortly after M1T, if memory serves me correct. ;)
 
Ziquor said:
Haha, funny you mention it when I was updating I got all the info together for it & thought nobody would ask.
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ziquor, no doubts you`re the man :box:if you could gave us the half life of the compounds listed you`ll have the best ph/ps chart on the web,;).
That would help a lot with the dosage schedule and probably will make you the most valuable member of the forum:clap2:,
Now seriously it would help a lot...
Thanks for your work bro
 
nunes said:
ziquor, no doubts you`re the man :box:if you could gave us the half life of the compounds listed you`ll have the best ph/ps chart on the web,;).
That would help a lot with the dosage schedule and probably will make you the most valuable member of the forum:clap2:,
Now seriously it would help a lot...
Thanks for your work bro
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EasyEJL said:
and A:A ratios
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Hmm... I can't really fit anything more on the chart due to size restrictions but I can maybe do some sort of type-up below? Any suggestions?
 
Ok I put together everything I could find for now. I couldn't find a half life of promagnon anywhere. For the others I used some info I had from Vida along with manufacture original write-ups. I'll expand it as I get some more info so still a little rough.
 
Ziq, I was just reviewing the front page of info again. Good job getting all of this together. Since you have some of the formerly legal DS/PHs up there such as M1T & Mdien, you might as well add the likes of:

M4OHN (MOHN)
4OHT
5AA
M5AA
MDHT
3-alpha
M4AD


Also, I have couple of technicality corrections to add. I'll PM them to you when I get a little more time.
 
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