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Osterine Blood Work

This is why you can't buy just any brand of SARMs or prohormones. The quality/purity can be suspect. Research the companies before you purchase. It's pretty simple. Read feedback of cycle logs. You'll eventually figure out which companies are legit and which are not. I'll give you an example. Narrowslabs has a good rep, tests their batches, consistent quality and purity. This is what you look for. Legit companies; ViciousLabs, Medfitrx, Purerawz, etc. I'm amazed by the amount of products that people buy without doing their own research. Then come to find out that product is spiked with a ph, or bunk. Be safe, do proper PCT, get blood work done frequently.
 
you took out parts of a text thats the thing. its from june 2015.. its an update from your link
 
Why does the page say published Feb 2014 then?


sorry what you sent me was an update saying you might not require pct at all.. nothing changed from the one i sent. i also never said it isnt supressive which you like to point out time and time again.
 
sorry what you sent me was an update saying you might not require pct at all.. nothing changed from the one i sent. i also never said it isnt supressive which you like to point out time and time again.
Again, not needing PCT when used at low doses IN NO WAY means that it isn't at least somewhat suppressive, just that it's not overly suppressive and/or levels returned to baseline on their own relatively quickly. I don't know how many times I have to explain this.

I'll quote your posts from this thread:

...the actual studies have shown it being so little suppressive.
Can you show me these studies? So far the only study that even tested testosterone levels was the 3mg/day for 12-week study I posted.

I am quite convinced myself that ostarine taken at the right dosage won't affect hpta at all.

It's suppressive, its just not suppressive at day one or day 20.

Again 12 weeks = slightly suppressive
4-5 weeks = not suppressive if you don't go over a certain amount which in studies has shown to be 25mg. I believe 4 weeks is a more safe bet since it seems to start after that.

You seem to have explicitly and repeatedly said that using it for 4 weeks or less is NOT suppressive... You mentioned the studies showed this, so please, show me these studies.
 
I also posted this quote from Mike from an online Q&A in December 2014, which was after your article, and it directly contradicts your claims:
You should not take ostarine during PCT, as it is suppresive of the HPTA, especially at the dosages used in Osta RX. Anything even remotely approaching 25 mg daily will have significant suppressive effects on the HPTA. Even 10 mg will suppress the HPTA and hinder recovery.
 
I also posted this quote from Mike from an online Q&A in December 2014, which was after your article, and it directly contradicts your claims:

isnt he the one contradicting himself if anything? you like to put words in to people mouths when you have an argument. from what ive Heard its minimal supressive up to 25 mg and 5 weeks, wether thats true or not i dont know neither do i remember where ive read it because then i would have posted it, ive also never in any thread said that i can guarantee anyone from being supressed. theres definitely arguments on the internet and there was one here on anabolicminds with bloods from an osta run. i have also implemented ostarine once during pct with no problem to recover.

i dont belive its strong enough to hinder recovery during pct if you dose it correctly. maybe its less than 10mg but even low dose osta has shown to help with musclewaste. the thing is that it even a week of aas use wouldnt cause a shutdown the body wouldnt recover from without nolva. people run serms and oral cycles, it probably wouldnt even shut you down that much so id be very surprised if low dose ostarine (having seen the results of 12 weeks) being able to hinder recovery with a serm involved during an average pct lenght. besides you can argue you run ostarine 4 weeks at 5 mg and a serm for 6 weeks with hcg involved. theres just no way thats gonna keep you shutdown

were discussing something, i dont sit and tell you you are wrong or that theres no possible way you at least have a point with what youre saying but im not willing to dismiss it being the other way around. id be willing to put money on it actually.


recommending ostarine to everyone would be silly considering everyone is different, we take different amounts of gear etc. its very possible one guy gets shut down the other one isnt.
 
I also posted this quote from Mike from an online Q&A in December 2014, which was after your article, and it directly contradicts your claims:

he also said this..


When it comes to using Ostarine as a maintenance drug during PCT, our initial impressions were a bit off. Many thought Ostarine would be the first S.A.R.M. capable of sustaining a significant anabolic effect without any appreciable impact on the HPTA. While Ostarine can be used for this purpose, lower dosages must be employed. Otherwise, suppression becomes an issue and recovery is hindered. When using Ostarine during PCT, I recommend using no more than 5-7 mg/day, max. At this dosage, the muscle protective effect is evident, while simultaneously allowing for restoration of normal testosterone production.
 
isnt he the one contradicting himself if anything?

No. In February 2014 he said you could run 5-7mg in PCT. in December 2014 he said it’s probably not worth it. He UPDATED his views.

you like to put words in to people mouths when you have an argument. from what ive Heard its minimal supressive up to 25 mg and 5 weeks, wether thats true or not i dont know neither do i remember where ive read it because then i would have posted it, ive also never in any thread said that i can guarantee anyone from being supressed.

If it’s just something you heard and have not confirmed, then say you heard it. You REPEATEDLY presented it as if it was a known fact.

theres definitely arguments on the internet and there was one here on anabolicminds with bloods from an osta run. i have also implemented ostarine once during pct with no problem to recover.

i dont belive its strong enough to hinder recovery during pct if you dose it correctly. maybe its less than 10mg but even low dose osta has shown to help with musclewaste. the thing is that it even a week of aas use wouldnt cause a shutdown the body wouldnt recover from without nolva. people run serms and oral cycles, it probably wouldnt even shut you down that much so id be very surprised if low dose ostarine (having seen the results of 12 weeks) being able to hinder recovery with a serm involved during an average pct lenght. besides you can argue you run ostarine 4 weeks at 5 mg and a serm for 6 weeks with hcg involved. theres just no way thats gonna keep you shutdown

were discussing something, i dont sit and tell you you are wrong or that theres no possible way you at least have a point with what youre saying but im not willing to dismiss it being the other way around. id be willing to put money on it actually.


recommending ostarine to everyone would be silly considering everyone is different, we take different amounts of gear etc. its very possible one guy gets shut down the other one isnt.
Response bolded in above quote. My issue is you REPEATEDLY said it IS NOT suppressive at NMT 25mg/day for NMT 4-5 weeks, something that is ENTIRELY unsubstantiated. Now you say you just heard it and don’t know for sure; fine, but say that in the first place, don’t masquerade your opinion and “thoughts” as facts.
 
he also said this..


When it comes to using Ostarine as a maintenance drug during PCT, our initial impressions were a bit off. Many thought Ostarine would be the first S.A.R.M. capable of sustaining a significant anabolic effect without any appreciable impact on the HPTA. While Ostarine can be used for this purpose, lower dosages must be employed. Otherwise, suppression becomes an issue and recovery is hindered. When using Ostarine during PCT, I recommend using no more than 5-7 mg/day, max. At this dosage, the muscle protective effect is evident, while simultaneously allowing for restoration of normal testosterone production.
Holy s**t, this was in Feb 2014; his later statements in two different places, from Dec 2014 contradict this, which is logically indicative of him updating his views on the subject, which is what educated people do when presented with new information.

Also, my PRIMARY issue here was your REPEATED claims that it IS NOT suppressive at NMT 25mg for NMT 4-5 weeks. Something that even MA NEVER claimed, and something that you never proved, and now seem to be backpedaling on, or at least qualifying. That’s fine, that’s my main point, is don’t masquerade “I think” as “it is known.”
 
All steroids trash your lipid profile. Even on trt you have to keep an eye on it, with basically normal levels in the system.

The thing that's good about SARMS is, while not side free, they don't cause ventricular hypertrophy, kidney damage, high blood pressure, or prostate enlargement.

I think they still might cause cardiac hypertrophy, as long as they still activate the AR in cardiac tissue like other androgens....
 
3 weeks removed from 7 weeks of Osterine 30mg/day. I ran S4 for the first 3 weeks but the Vision sides were to much. Did a mimi pct with OL Kingsblood and Clomid 50mg EOD. Got blood work back today and my Lipids are trashed. My diet has been as clean as it's ever been. Best cardi condition of my life as well. I know alot of people don't get blood work done with SARMS but they should. I'm done with Grey market nonsense for good. There are well studied compounds with decades of research to be run with more manageable sides.

I wonder if the lipid issue is solely due to the reduction in E2, or something else...

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Holy s**t, this was in Feb 2014; his later statements in two different places, from Dec 2014 contradict this, which is logically indicative of him updating his views on the subject, which is what educated people do when presented with new information.

Also, my PRIMARY issue here was your REPEATED claims that it IS NOT suppressive at NMT 25mg for NMT 4-5 weeks. Something that even MA NEVER claimed, and something that you never proved, and now seem to be backpedaling on, or at least qualifying. That’s fine, that’s my main point, is don’t masquerade “I think” as “it is known.”


he said it can be done. he never said it couldnt be done.. your post indicates that he doesnt recommend people to use it and especially at a dosage som brand recommends or whatever he meant.
 
he said it can be done. he never said it couldnt be done.. your post indicates that he doesnt recommend people to use it and especially at a dosage som brand recommends or whatever he meant.
He said it can be done in Feb 2014. Twice in Dec 2014 he said you shouldn’t. In one Q&A he EXPLICITLY said you should not use it in PCT. Who cares if it CAN be done if it SHOULDN’T be done? You can also cut off your left thumb; that doesn’t mean you should. This “debate” is getting silly man...

Also, I assume you now admit that you don’t KNOW and can’t PROVE that it isn’t suppressive at 25mg/day for 4-weeks? Because you REPEATEDLY said it IS NOT. If this is true, then I’ve made my point and I’m done here.
 
He said it can be done in Feb 2014. Twice in Dec 2014 he said you shouldn’t. In one Q&A he EXPLICITLY said you should not use it in PCT. Who cares if it CAN be done if it SHOULDN’T be done? You can also cut off your left thumb; that doesn’t mean you should. This “debate” is getting silly man...

Also, I assume you now admit that you don’t KNOW and can’t PROVE that it isn’t suppressive at 25mg/day for 4-weeks? Because you REPEATEDLY said it IS NOT. If this is true, then I’ve made my point and I’m done here.


i have never said i know anything. you are arguing for whatever reason. i was having a discussion. and yes it matters wether its possible to not be shutdown with osta
 
i have never said i know anything. you are arguing for whatever reason. i was having a discussion. and yes it matters wether its possible to not be shutdown with osta
I quoted you saying, multiple times, that Ostarine IS NOT SUPRESSIVE at NMT 25mg/day for NMT 4-5 weeks. For you to use such absolute language, that it “is not” suppressive, indicates that you are presenting it as a FACT, which would then logically mean you KNOW it. If you had said you don’t THINK or BELEIVE that it is at all suppressive, that’s one thing, but that’s not what you said, MULTIPLE times and in no uncertain language.

Also, shutdown =/= suppressed; please don’t bring yet another variable into this.
 
Your EXACT words:

It's suppressive, its just not suppressive at day one or day 20.

Again 12 weeks = slightly suppressive
4-5 weeks = not suppressive if you don't go over a certain amount which in studies has shown to be 25mg. I believe 4 weeks is a more safe bet since it seems to start after that.

You said it IS NOT suppressive, and even mentioned an exact limit of dose and duration.
 
Your EXACT words:



You said it IS NOT suppressive, and even mentioned an exact limit of dose and duration.

you cant seriously not get that? read my comments before. i answered to you questioning what i was saying.. i explained what i meant i never said it was a fact. you argued that 3mg was supressive and i said that study was for 12 weeks.. jesus
 
you cant seriously not get that? read my comments before. i answered to you questioning what i was saying.. i explained what i meant i never said it was a fact. you argued that 3mg was supressive and i said that study was for 12 weeks.. jesus
You saying that the study was 12 weeks is not sufficient proof to say that it isn't still somewhat suppressive at 4-5 weeks at a much higher dose. All it means is that we don't KNOW WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that it is suppressive at this duration. You said it IS NOT SUPPRESSIVE at 4-5 weeks, which is something you do not know. If you admit this, then we're cool, as you've already admitted that even MA doesn't recommend using it in PCT, and says you shouldn't. You CAN do whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD.
 
You saying that the study was 12 weeks is not sufficient proof to say that it isn't still somewhat suppressive at 4-5 weeks at a much higher dose. All it means is that we don't KNOW WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that it is suppressive at this duration. You said it IS NOT SUPPRESSIVE at 4-5 weeks, which is something you do not know. If you admit this, then we're cool, as you've already admitted that even MA doesn't recommend using it in PCT, and says you shouldn't. You CAN do whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I just told you I replied to you talking about some 12 week protocol for the 25th time when nobody ever in this planet suggested that. The talk has been about 5 weeks at best so I don't see the point of even bringing that up.

MA also said it could be done without suppression.

And no obviously it's up to everyone to decide wether it's worth the risk because MA never posted a study either in these threads. I would like to hear his opinion though
 
You saying that the study was 12 weeks is not sufficient proof to say that it isn't still somewhat suppressive at 4-5 weeks at a much higher dose. All it means is that we don't KNOW WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that it is suppressive at this duration. You said it IS NOT SUPPRESSIVE at 4-5 weeks, which is something you do not know. If you admit this, then we're cool, as you've already admitted that even MA doesn't recommend using it in PCT, and says you shouldn't. You CAN do whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I just told you I replied to you talking about some 12 week protocol for the 25th time when nobody ever in this planet suggested that. The talk has been about 5 weeks at best so I don't see the point of even bringing that up.

MA also said it could be done without suppression.

And no obviously it's up to everyone to decide wether it's worth the risk because MA never posted a study either in these threads. I would like to hear his opinion though
 
I just told you I replied to you talking about some 12 week protocol for the 25th time when nobody ever in this planet suggested that. The talk has been about 5 weeks at best so I don't see the point of even bringing that up.

MA also said it could be done without suppression.

And no obviously it's up to everyone to decide wether it's worth the risk because MA never posted a study either in these threads. I would like to hear his opinion though
I posted the 12 week study because it is, so far, the ONLY study that even measured testosterone as far as we are aware. All we can say for sure it that it DOES cause some suppression at 12 weeks. If you “don’t see the point” of me bringing up what is so far the ONLY study on the subject, I don’t know what to tell you. If you’d cited the studies you talked about non-stop, I wouldn’t have needed to bring up this study, but you did not...

You then conceded that it causes suppression at 12 weeks, and FOLLOWED IT UP by saying it DOES NOT cause any suppression at 4-5 weeks, which is entirely unsubstantiated.

Also, MA said it could be done without suppression in FEBRUARY, and later it seems that he amended that statement to say that it SHOULD NOT be used in PCT AT ALL.

He said you can run low doses and likely not need PCT for it, but, again, that IN NO WAY means it isn’t at least somewhat suppressive at this dose, only that it would likely return to normal quickly alone. This also doesn’t mean it won’t hinder a PCT; it’s talking about not necessarily needing a PCT for it.

Of course we are both interpreting what MA said, so he’d have to clarify to give his “final/current” word on the topic.

That said, YOU are the one who said it IS NOT suppressive at 25mg/day for 4-5 weeks. I only said it IS suppressive at 12 weeks, but a much lower dose, so we DON’T know for sure that shorter-term use will not be.

I am saying we do not know about shorter durations using higher doses. That is all; that YOU do not know FOR SURE, so shouldn’t say it DOES NOT cause any suppression in this use.
 
I posted the 12 week study because it is, so far, the ONLY study that even measured testosterone as far as we are aware. All we can say for sure it that it DOES cause some suppression at 12 weeks. If you “don’t see the point” of me bringing up what is so far the ONLY study on the subject, I don’t know what to tell you. If you’d cited the studies you talked about non-stop, I wouldn’t have needed to bring up this study, but you did not...

You then conceded that it causes suppression at 12 weeks, and FOLLOWED IT UP by saying it DOES NOT cause any suppression at 4-5 weeks, which is entirely unsubstantiated.

Also, MA said it could be done without suppression in FEBRUARY, and later it seems that he amended that statement to say that it SHOULD NOT be used in PCT AT ALL.

He said you can run low doses and likely not need PCT for it, but, again, that IN NO WAY means it isn’t at least somewhat suppressive at this dose, only that it would likely return to normal quickly alone. This also doesn’t mean it won’t hinder a PCT; it’s talking about not necessarily needing a PCT for it.

Of course we are both interpreting what MA said, so he’d have to clarify to give his “final/current” word on the topic.

That said, YOU are the one who said it IS NOT suppressive at 25mg/day for 4-5 weeks. I only said it IS suppressive at 12 weeks, but a much lower dose, so we DON’T know for sure that shorter-term use will not be.

I am saying we do not know about shorter durations using higher doses. That is all; that YOU do not know FOR SURE, so shouldn’t say it DOES NOT cause any suppression in this use.

3rd time ill say this.. I responded to your quote referring to me when you started talking about a 12 week cycle. If you take aas one day it's bit gonna suppress you. I never said it doesn't suppress you, and if you actually go back and read you'll understand how that was taken out of context. The fact that there are many people with knowledge backing this up should mean they got it from somewhere right? Or they are just lying? We don't know exactly what dosage or for how long and you're not gonna find anywhere where I said that. I did however say that I don't believe ostarine is suppressive at low dosage for a shorter time. I still don't believe it considering how the sarms act in the body and same goes with liver damage, androgenic sides and cholesterol. There's nothing in ostarine that suggests it would shut you down especially with a serm at such low dose. People run oral aas with serms for God sake.

I must say I admire your dedication to educate people about sarms and suppression considering you've never according to yourself touch a steroid. I have used ostarine and fully recovered so even if I believe everyone reacts differently to some extinct I do have a reason to believe in what I'm saying.
 
3rd time ill say this.. I responded to your quote referring to me when you started talking about a 12 week cycle. If you take aas one day it's bit gonna suppress you. I never said it doesn't suppress you, and if you actually go back and read you'll understand how that was taken out of context. The fact that there are many people with knowledge backing this up should mean they got it from somewhere right? Or they are just lying? We don't know exactly what dosage or for how long and you're not gonna find anywhere where I said that. I did however say that I don't believe ostarine is suppressive at low dosage for a shorter time. I still don't believe it considering how the sarms act in the body and same goes with liver damage, androgenic sides and cholesterol. There's nothing in ostarine that suggests it would shut you down especially with a serm at such low dose. People run oral aas with serms for God sake.

I must say I admire your dedication to educate people about sarms and suppression considering you've never according to yourself touch a steroid. I have used ostarine and fully recovered so even if I believe everyone reacts differently to some extinct I do have a reason to believe in what I'm saying.
Often times “information” on SARMS comes from websites/people selling it who aren’t always honest (not talking about MA here, as he’s not referencing studies that don’t exist), like the myriad of websites that don’t know what HED conversion is when talking about Cardarine, saying that the studies used astronomical doses when they didn’t (oh, wait, you posted one such article, and when NAH pointed out that the author didn’t do HED conversions, you said “but he’s an expert” as if that somehow trumps actual science and facts). But people just took those “facts” and ran with them, and they quickly became to prevalent, omnipresent, on the internet that whenever someone looked it up it came up saying that in so many places that it just became accepted as true without anyone bothering to verify it themselves. This may well be a similar case, with the only other option being they have access to studies unavailable to any of us, but don’t want to provide even the title of the study for us to try to find.

Also, nice fallacious logic; my use or not use has nothing to do with the validity of my statements. Hell, I’d bet 99% of the authors of the studies on it haven’t used it; clearly you must know more than them about it, right?

Anyway, enough beating this dead horse... if you admit, or say you’ve been saying all along, that we don’t know for sure if higher doses for shorter-term use will cause any level of suppression, then we’re cool. It’s pointless for me to argue semantics about what you actually said if it’s clarified now.
 
There’s no way to know if he was taking just ostarine. None! Unless you have the product tested you have no idea what you’re actually taking.
 
Often times “information” on SARMS comes from websites/people selling it who aren’t always honest (not talking about MA here, as he’s not referencing studies that don’t exist), like the myriad of websites that don’t know what HED conversion is when talking about Cardarine, saying that the studies used astronomical doses when they didn’t (oh, wait, you posted one such article, and when NAH pointed out that the author didn’t do HED conversions, you said “but he’s an expert” as if that somehow trumps actual science and facts). But people just took those “facts” and ran with them, and they quickly became to prevalent, omnipresent, on the internet that whenever someone looked it up it came up saying that in so many places that it just became accepted as true without anyone bothering to verify it themselves. This may well be a similar case, with the only other option being they have access to studies unavailable to any of us, but don’t want to provide even the title of the study for us to try to find.

Also, nice fallacious logic; my use or not use has nothing to do with the validity of my statements. Hell, I’d bet 99% of the authors of the studies on it haven’t used it; clearly you must know more than them about it, right?

Anyway, enough beating this dead horse... if you admit, or say you’ve been saying all along, that we don’t know for sure if higher doses for shorter-term use will cause any level of suppression, then we’re cool. It’s pointless for me to argue semantics about what you actually said if it’s clarified now.

Regarding cardarine yes the protocol was not fair compared to human consumption.. The thing you absolutely did miss which i explained earlier is that the rats life span is 3 years top and often just 2. You'd have to take cardarine for an extremely big part of your life to compare. The other thing is that rats are more prone to cancer and the rate which tumours grow.

You look at the study and say well that's just a few weeks or months.. For you that would be like taking cardarine to the age of 70.

Regarding ostarine it did not affect me in any noticible way, I've seen results with long term studies that didn't do nearly as much as aas in terms of suppression. I don't believe it's black or white as you want everything to be.. As it showed you there are a very high amount of sarms being sold as fake, and I'd be very surprised if everyone got exactly the same side effects from the exact same cycle regardless of product. It's very possible that some people gets shut down on far less than other people but if you compare ostarine at 3mg vs a steroid cycle there's no way you'll get completely shut down from ostarine during a few weeks. Even if the suppression is small which is very possible you'd bounce back easily, if you run a serm I don't think you'd even notice. If you use it to build muscle you'd obviously run it much higher for 3 months and should expect shutdown.

Nobody runs a pct for 3 months, it's like running cardarine to the age of 70.

You're arguing that it can cause shutdown and I think we already established that from the start, question is when it causes it and that's what I'm trying to figure out while you're trying to convince me that I don't know lol..
 
There’s no way to know if he was taking just ostarine. None! Unless you have the product tested you have no idea what you’re actually taking.
I agree. I actually came across a utube video were Osterine was independently tested from 3 well know labs. I got my Osterine from 1 of these 3. Turns out the Osterine was real but %50 under dosed. Again, the videos could be totally fake, or different batches from mine were tested or several other scenarios.
 
You're arguing that it can cause shutdown and I think we already established that from the start, question is when it causes it and that's what I'm trying to figure out while you're trying to convince me that I don't know lol..
Let’s not bring up cardarine again; we’ve beaten that horse past death. My point was just to illustrate how incorrect information can often be spread and even defended when it’s objectively wrong. Such may well be the case with things people say about Ostarine online.

I never mentioned the word “shutdown.” I said that we are unsure if it could delay restoration of testosterone levels during PCT. Since you admit that you don’t know when it starts showing suppression, I’m cool, as neither of us know. Enjoy the rest of your day. I’m done here.
 
Let’s not bring up cardarine again; we’ve beaten that horse past death. My point was just to illustrate how incorrect information can often be spread and even defended when it’s objectively wrong. Such may well be the case with things people say about Ostarine online.

I never mentioned the word “shutdown.” I said that we are unsure if it could delay restoration of testosterone levels during PCT. Since you admit that you don’t know when it starts showing suppression, I’m cool, as neither of us know. Enjoy the rest of your day. I’m done here.

No cause I think that's individual but I am confident enough to say that it's possible to run ostarine sidefree with a serm and probably even without for a shorter period, but as anyone can get cancer from smoking and some won't I'm sure some gets suppressed while others won't but that's speculation.

Well you brought up cardarine so I had to respond to why the studies are misleading.


Pleasure to have a discussion as always.
 
Ya know, at the end of the day no study matters because we were not there to see variables. We gotta take them with a grain of salt. I have seen the bloodwork show suppression and changing health markers but then again I don't have anything or any way to be 100% positive it was what was listed on the bottle so you gotta take it with a grain of salt. In the end it's really just one big guessing game.
 
Ostarine has my liver enzymes out the ceiling. My doctor asked me if I’d been binge drinking. Super toxic stuff.

Then what you are taking is not Ostarine. Ostarine is not lover toxic to any appreciable degree. Perhaps there is something else in that bottle, or maybe you are using something else that is toxic. Also, don' forget that even a single strenuous workout can SIGNIFICANTLY elevated liver enzymes...to the point where a doctor could easily be concerned if he wasn't aware of the cause.

Ostarine has been studied extensively in humans, with no known liver toxicity, so to say that ostarine is "super toxic stuff" is not only wrong, but misleading to others who may not be familiar with these compounds. i realize that you aren't intending to be misleading, but please understand that the effects you experienced are not associated with ostarine use.
 
Now that IS worrying. Am going to stay clear of Sarms for sure and having previously ran two cycles of M1-T in the past and recovered with zero long term issues I'll go with a 75mg Halodrol cycle perhaps instead. There does appear to be more and more adverse reporting around effects of Sarms nowadays.

M1T is one of the moist liver toxic steroids in existence. SARMs are about 10 times removed from M1T in terms of health risk. Not even comparable.
 
Then what you are taking is not Ostarine. Ostarine is not lover toxic to any appreciable degree. Perhaps there is something else in that bottle, or maybe you are using something else that is toxic. Also, don' forget that even a single strenuous workout can SIGNIFICANTLY elevated liver enzymes...to the point where a doctor could easily be concerned if he wasn't aware of the cause.

Ostarine has been studied extensively in humans, with no known liver toxicity, so to say that ostarine is "super toxic stuff" is not only wrong, but misleading to others who may not be familiar with these compounds. i realize that you aren't intending to be misleading, but please understand that the effects you experienced are not associated with ostarine use.

Exactly the whole purpose of sarms is to not be toxic as aas and they're still trying to improve. Now can you give us your take on the suppression theory?
 
To be clear. My bloodwork did not show elevated liver values despite hitting a brutal workout 2 hours before the test. I never saw any of signs of liver stress with Osterine. Now S23, thats another story. I was pissing orange 4 weeks in @ 30mg a day. I was eating super clean and taking 500mg of Tudica a day.
 
To be clear. My bloodwork did not show elevated liver values despite hitting a brutal workout 2 hours before the test. I never saw any of signs of liver stress with Osterine. Now S23, thats another story. I was pissing orange 4 weeks in @ 30mg a day. I was eating super clean and taking 500mg of Tudica a day.

S23 seems to be a step backwards in the development. The whole purpose is to have a safer alternative with no suppression, no damage to the body at all. Probably safer to run winstrol. How was the results though? Tried and compared it to S4?
 
Well know reasearch chem site that is going out of business at the end of the month. They stopped shipping out of the country a few months ago. Thats about as far as I can go without breaking rules.

That should answer it right there, good info
 
S23 seems to be a step backwards in the development. The whole purpose is to have a safer alternative with no suppression, no damage to the body at all. Probably safer to run winstrol. How was the results though? Tried and compared it to S4?
Results were similar to Tbol or 100mg of Hdrol for me. Great strength with 10 lbs lean hard muscle. However, It shut me down me harder than anything I ran in the past going back 15 years and it felt extremely toxic. The only time I felt that toxicity was when I first ran SD my local shop was carrying and new nothing about support supplements. Lipids were trashed to. I never ran Test bloods to confirm shutdown but I could feel it! Took me 3 months with of full PCT protocol to feel normal again. Winstrol was a dream in comparison. I know it's not what people want to hear but it's my experience. Everyone's chemistry is different but this one should be handled with caution.
 
Results were similar to Tbol or 100mg of Hdrol for me. Great strength with 10 lbs lean hard muscle. However, It shut me down me harder than anything I ran in the past going back 15 years and it felt extremely toxic. The only time I felt that toxicity was when I first ran SD my local shop was carrying and new nothing about support supplements. Lipids were trashed to. I never ran Test bloods to confirm shutdown but I could feel it! Took me 3 months with of full PCT protocol to feel normal again. Winstrol was a dream in comparison. I know it's not what people want to hear but it's my experience. Everyone's chemistry is different but this one should be handled with caution.

That's good enough for me. I love winstrol and also enjoyed S4 quite a lot. So you'd say it's somewhat a bulking steroid? It doesn't shred you up like winstrol?
 
That's good enough for me. I love winstrol and also enjoyed S4 quite a lot. So you'd say it's somewhat a bulking steroid? It doesn't shred you up like winstrol?
S23 did not give me the grainy look that Winstrol or S4 @ 100mg did. I was not able to handle the vision sides this time with S4. S23 definitely gave more size, yes.
 
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