Osterine Blood Work

[contact13]

3 weeks removed from 7 weeks of Osterine 30mg/day. I ran S4 for the first 3 weeks but the Vision sides were to much. Did a mimi pct with OL Kingsblood and Clomid 50mg EOD. Got blood work back today and my Lipids are trashed. My diet has been as clean as it's ever been. Best cardi condition of my life as well. I know alot of people don't get blood work done with SARMS but they should. I'm done with Grey market nonsense for good. There are well studied compounds with decades of research to be run with more manageable sides.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

3 weeks removed from 7 weeks of Osterine 30mg/day. I ran S4 for the first 3 weeks but the Vision sides were to much. Did a mimi pct with OL Kingsblood and Clomid 50mg EOD. Got blood work back today and my Lipids are trashed. My diet has been as clean as it's ever been. Best cardi condition of my life as well. I know alot of people don't get blood work done with SARMS but they should. I'm done with Grey market nonsense for good. There are well studied compounds with decades of research to be run with more manageable sides.

Ostarine is known to mess with lipids for many people...

 

[Smont]

Yep, I been saying for ever they need to be treated like oral steroids, there not much different in sides but have less gains

 

[Mzakif]

The problem is that many claim they don’t miss with your body and they do not suppress you

I’m talking about Ostarine Ana Ligandrol not sure about other SARMS

 

[BennyMagoo79]

The problem is that many claim they don’t miss with your body and they do not suppress you

I’m talking about Ostarine Ana Ligandrol not sure about other SARMS

Just do your research, don't listen to shills.

 

[M.I.D]

If it was ostarine capsules, it was prob laced with Prohormone

 

[contact13]

If it was ostarine capsules, it was prob laced with Prohormone

It was liquid

 

[Rad83]

Curious what company

 

[Mzakif]

Just do your research, don't listen to shills.

That’s what I did and I decided I won’t use them at the end

I’ll try something much more tested and stronger if I’m going to be suppressed

At the end every thing has its expense

 

[BennyMagoo79]

That’s what I did and I decided I won’t use them at the end

I’ll try something much more tested and stronger if I’m going to be suppressed

Good call.

 

[Mzakif]

If it was ostarine capsules, it was prob laced with Prohormone

It’s hard to tell, seen some people saying OL is legit and it’s not liquid

I think the only way is lab tests to be sure 100%
And this applies to everything

 

[contact13]

Curious what company

Well know reasearch chem site that is going out of business at the end of the month. They stopped shipping out of the country a few months ago. Thats about as far as I can go without breaking rules.

 

[jim2509]

Sounds to me the Ostarine may not have been 'Gen'.

We have loads of good labs in the UK throwing out this stuff and nobody on forums have been reporting bad bloods/lipids post cycle??

 

[contact13]

Sounds to me the Ostarine may not have been 'Gen'.

We have loads of good labs in the UK throwing out this stuff and nobody on forums have been reporting bad bloods/lipids post cycle??

You my very well be correct. Either way, SARMS are worth the hassle anymore. They have alot of sides of other orals with way less positive effect.

 

[YoungThor]

Do you guys watch “ask the doc” on YouTube? If not, check it out because it’s very educational.

Anyway, GTX Inc, the company that developed ostarine and actually owns the rights to the chemical had this hrt doc be part of a panel that studied the bloodwork of men who were given ostarine, directly from GTX, and the results basically showed that it is no different than oral AAS in terms of how it affects cholesterol and liver health. GTX was not happy to see the results of this study and I believe ostarine will never make it to market.

It is very tiring to constantly hear people claim that sarms are some miracle drug and if you experience any side effects or your blood work comes back messed up then you actually took a PH. That’s nonsense.

 

[YoungThor]

Also, whether sarms are in a capsule, stamped into a tablet, in liquid form, or any other digestible form does not make a difference. It all starts off as a powder in some Chinese laboratory. Some companies then put it in a liquid solution while others just capsulate it. Some stamp it into a tablet. Some do all three.

 

[jim2509]

Also, whether sarms are in a capsule, stamped into a tablet, in liquid form, or any other digestible form does not make a difference. It all starts off as a powder in some Chinese laboratory. Some companies then put it in a liquid solution while others just capsulate it. Some stamp it into a tablet. Some do all three.

I think this is very true and people should take note as contamination is surely a real issue. As for Ostarine my opinion is that for what you get and possibility of sides...you might as well go with a decent cycle of known time tested AAS /PHS.

 

[Chados]

Everything isn't always black or white.. Yes sarms do suppress you but ostarine as an example have very little shutdown even at dosage of 25mg for a short period of time. This has been studied so whatever people say on forums, whatever blood work they show I'd take it with a grain of salt. Even some ostarine bottles says on the back to use between 5 and 15 mg during pct to maintain gains because the actual studies have shown it being so little suppressive.



Sarms are not nearly as toxic as aas from the (studies) thats been made, we don't know the long time effects though just like with many other things such as sweeteners that people here have every day.

Sarms are not the same as aas because they act differently in your body. Even women should have no problems running ostarine.

Now what's real ostarine and what isn't? That's the question

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Everything isn't always black or white.. Yes sarms do suppress you but ostarine as an example have very little shutdown even at dosage of 25mg for a short period of time. This has been studied so whatever people say on forums, whatever blood work they show I'd take it with a grain of salt. Even some ostarine bottles says on the back to use between 5 and 15 mg during pct to maintain gains because the actual studies have shown it being so little suppressive.



Sarms are not nearly as toxic as aas from the (studies) thats been made, we don't know the long time effects though just like with many other things such as sweeteners that people here have every day.

Sarms are not the same as aas because they act differently in your body. Even women should have no problems running ostarine.

Now what's real ostarine and what isn't? That's the question

Dude, it doesn’t matter what a bottle of Ostarine says on it. Who, besides people selling Ostarine, recommend using it in PCT? That’s silly man.

 

[Old Witch]

All steroids trash your lipid profile. Even on trt you have to keep an eye on it, with basically normal levels in the system.

The thing that's good about SARMS is, while not side free, they don't cause ventricular hypertrophy, kidney damage, high blood pressure, or prostate enlargement.

 

[Chados]

Dude, it doesn’t matter what a bottle of Ostarine says on it. Who, besides people selling Ostarine, recommend using it in PCT? That’s silly man.

That's another question. The thing is it's shown by studies so you either believe it or you don't

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That's another question. The thing is it's shown by studies so you either believe it or you don't

My point is that pretty much anyone who isn’t selling Ostarine does not recommend running ANYTHING suppressive during PCT, even if it’s only supposedly “a little” suppressive. Why risk not recovering properly/optimally during PCT?

 

[Borashi]

I love how people take Sarms and don't expect their lipids or bloods or test to be off in some way. Sarms are a drug, they change the composition of your body, they have the ability to suppress you, just like any other PH or roid. The best you can do when you run a cycle is to run on cycle support, drink a ton of fluids, eat super clean, and train hard. I think a lot of people do Sarms and expect miracles or same results as real Roids and therein lies the problem. Keeping your expectations realistic is the key to getting results, as well as following the proper protocol. What does mini pct mean? I mean your either all IN on recovery or your not? I think a lot of peeps lose Sarm Gains because they don't take PCT seriously and they don't train as hard off cycle, which both are key.

 

[jim2509]

All steroids trash your lipid profile. Even on trt you have to keep an eye on it, with basically normal levels in the system.

The thing that's good about SARMS is, while not side free, they don't cause ventricular hypertrophy, kidney damage, high blood pressure, or prostate enlargement.

Havent seen any of that in Dhea Andros thus far. Those symptoms are what you'd expect from long term AAS use or high dosages. Nobody knows the longterm damage Sarms may cause??

 

[Chados]

My point is that pretty much anyone who isn’t selling Ostarine does not recommend running ANYTHING suppressive during PCT, even if it’s only supposedly “a little” suppressive. Why risk not recovering properly/optimally during PCT?

I agree to that but if suppression occurs normally and while running clomid it doesn't affect you at all it could be beneficial right?

I am quite convinced myself that ostarine taken at the right dosage won't affect hpta at all.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I agree to that but if suppression occurs normally and while running clomid it doesn't affect you at all it could be beneficial right?

I am quite convinced myself that ostarine taken at the right dosage won't affect hpta at all.

Can you guarantee that the Ostarine will not interfere in some way with Clomid's ability to restore testosterone levels to normal? Or at least delay the process? It's another variable that means anyone considering doing this should ABSOLUTELY, INVARIABLY, get their levels tested after PCT to make sure they're back to normal. The whole point of a PCT is to get back to baseline, and if you don't, you're probably going to have a bad time, and maybe even set yourself up for more problems down the road. Why risk it for what would be, at the most, a few more pounds.

 

[YoungThor]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cRpXUyrQTxw

That’s the video we’re the doctor claims ostarine trashes lipids worse than anavar and it is comparable to winstrol in terms of how it affects cholesterol. Check it out.

 

[Chados]

A 120-day study comparing SARM S-4 and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) treatment in ovariectomized rats demonstrated that S-4 was able to maintain bone mass and bone strength to the levels of intact controls and exhibited greater efficacy than DHT

Studies have demonstrated that Ostarine, if utilized in higher than recommended dosages, can suppress endogenous natural Testosterone production in the male human body. The same side effect can occur if Ostarine is utilized for longer than a period of 5 weeks. Therefore, it is indeed suppressive to the HPTA (Hypothalamic Pituitary Testicular Axis), and some sort of a post-cycle therapy (PCT) protocol is warrante

 

[Chados]

Can you guarantee that the Ostarine will not interfere in some way with Clomid's ability to restore testosterone levels to normal? Or at least delay the process? It's another variable that means anyone considering doing this should ABSOLUTELY, INVARIABLY, get their levels tested after PCT to make sure they're back to normal. The whole point of a PCT is to get back to baseline, and if you don't, you're probably going to have a bad time, and maybe even set yourself up for more problems down the road. Why risk it for what would be, at the most, a few more pounds.

Well from what I've seen it's barely noticible or maybe 0 suppressive as my comment above. So in theory running it with clomid shouldn't make it worse.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Well from what I've seen it's barely noticible or maybe 0 suppressive as my comment above. So in theory running it with clomid shouldn't make it worse.

Zero suppression? I’m fairly sure you yourself just said it has at least minor suppressive effects. It’s not overly potent either, so I just don’t see the reason to even potentially run any risk of jeopardizing a proper PCT for it, and neither does pretty much anyone who isn’t selling the stuff.

I don’t know where you’re even getting that it has ZERO suppressive effects though, as even 1-3mg has been shown to reduce testosterone levels, which the authors of the study described as “notable but expected.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/#!po=0.909091

Do you know something the authors of the study don’t?

 

[JoePaul39]

Subbed

 

[Brain5ick]

Ostarine has my liver enzymes out the ceiling. My doctor asked me if I’d been binge drinking. Super toxic stuff.

 

[AntSoldier]

Dude, it doesn’t matter what a bottle of Ostarine says on it. Who, besides people selling Ostarine, recommend using it in PCT? That’s silly man.

I have heard of a lot of people running Ostarine and/or LGD in PCT or as a bridge between cycles but I think this is guys in trt or cruising and blasting. I never understood why or how but know this is happening. Will try and find a link or article on it. A pro body builder I know when I spoke with him about sarms said no PCT is needed with LGD and him and his friends use LGD after aas cycle during PCT to hold the gains. But like I say I believe he on try or cruising/blasting too so is in a different situation.

 

[jim2509]

Ostarine has my liver enzymes out the ceiling. My doctor asked me if I’d been binge drinking. Super toxic stuff.

Now that IS worrying. Am going to stay clear of Sarms for sure and having previously ran two cycles of M1-T in the past and recovered with zero long term issues I'll go with a 75mg Halodrol cycle perhaps instead. There does appear to be more and more adverse reporting around effects of Sarms nowadays.

 

[Chados]

Zero suppression? I’m fairly sure you yourself just said it has at least minor suppressive effects. It’s not overly potent either, so I just don’t see the reason to even potentially run any risk of jeopardizing a proper PCT for it, and neither does pretty much anyone who isn’t selling the stuff.

I don’t know where you’re even getting that it has ZERO suppressive effects though, as even 1-3mg has been shown to reduce testosterone levels, which the authors of the study described as “notable but expected.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3177038/#!po=0.909091

Do you know something the authors of the study don’t?

For God sake dude I don't know how many times I have to mention this. The test is 12 weeks that's 2 times as long as any average pct. It's suppressive, its just not suppressive at day one or day 20.

Again 12 weeks = slightly suppressive
4-5 weeks = not suppressive if you don't go over a certain amount which in studies has shown to be 25mg. I believe 4 weeks is a more safe bet since it seems to start after that.

All that taken aside, people tend to still do pct due to safety. I think it's best to check your own bloods and you'll see for yourself.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

For God sake dude I don't know how many times I have to mention this. The test is 12 weeks that's 2 times as long as any average pct. It's suppressive, its just not suppressive at day one or day 20.

Again 12 weeks = slightly suppressive
4-5 weeks = not suppressive if you don't go over a certain amount which in studies has shown to be 25mg. I believe 4 weeks is a more safe bet since it seems to start after that.

All that taken aside, people tend to still do pct due to safety. I think it's best to check your own bloods and you'll see for yourself.

Can you show me the studies that show that 25mg for 4-5 weeks is not at all suppressive? That’d put this whole thing to bed instead of you just keep repeating that there are studies but not referencing or citing them.

 

[Borashi]

This is the most realistic video I've watched on Sarms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRbrmwkvRYE He brings up a good point in the video. About the stigma of roids vs Sarms and why Sarms have taken off is because they might be more socially acceptable which is true, and he mentions how Sarms are just as strong as roids, and this is something I agree with especially if your stacking them. The biggest problem I see is all the schill health store reps or online stores that sell Sarms without giving proper advice on PCT and recovery. I feel this is where you have to take what you read, watch, hear, with a grain a salt. Honestly people who take Sarms and expect no sides are kidding themselves. You will be suppressed, you could suffer lethargy, and it could trash your lipids, just like Roids, every PH has its Pros and its Cons. Its up to you personally to decide what your goals are and what you want to achieve. I made the decision to take Sarms because I wanted to see what the Hype was about and I wasn't disappointed, I was able to recover faster, I had crazy endurance, and my strength did go up. Did I have incredible HULK like gains? No. That isn't realistic, but I did gain strength and I have maintained it in PCT. I feel the key is being realistic in your expectations and having the ability to listen to your body when running a cycle. If a compound doesn't agree with you then switch it up.

 

[Chados]

Sorry I'm having a damn hard time finding it. What I did find and lost was from ncbi that showed that almost the majority of all the sarms they tested were fake. Some included tamoxifen, some didn't have the right amount of the actual ingredients etc. This definitely explains why people come here and claim that ostarine trash their lipids.

Sorry to anyone offended and trust me I did not know this myself but Dylan Gemelli just made a lot of us look stupid lol..

I'll be looking further in to suppression after having some food.. Be back

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Sorry I'm having a damn hard time finding it. What I did find and lost was from ncbi that showed that almost the majority of all the sarms they tested were fake. Some included tamoxifen, some didn't have the right amount of the actual ingredients etc. This definitely explains why people come here and claim that ostarine trash their lipids.

Sorry to anyone offended and trust me I did not know this myself but Dylan Gemelli just made a lot of us look stupid lol..

I'll be looking further in to suppression after having some food.. Be back

Cool. I'm genuinely curious as to the research on shorter-term use of ostarine, but couldn't find any studies in my cursory search that tested testosterone besides the one I posted that had a lower dose but a longer duration. I'll try to look too.

As for the effects on cholesterol, ostarine does have some effect, but, at least with no more than 3mg/day for 12 weeks, there was a reduction in HDL (27%), and no significant change in LDL. However, even after this change, the LDL/HDL ratio was still in the low cardiovascular risk category, so it doesn't seem overly concerning here. However, I cannot say for certain what effects a shorter cycle using a much higher dose would do though.

Edit: also, when looking for studies on the effects of Ostarine on testosterone, make sure you're looking at studies that had male subjects; the 3mg/day 12-week study I mentioned earlier noted suppression in men, but apparently not in women, so if you're claiming that higher-doses for shorter-term use won't cause any suppression, you'd have to show this is true in men.

 

[Chados]

Cool. I'm genuinely curious as to the research on shorter-term use of ostarine, but couldn't find any studies in my cursory search that tested testosterone besides the one I posted that had a lower dose but a longer duration. I'll try to look too.

As for the effects on cholesterol, ostarine does have some effect, but, at least with no more than 3mg/day for 12 weeks, there was a reduction in HDL (27%), and no significant change in LDL. However, even after this change, the LDL/HDL ratio was still in the low cardiovascular risk category, so it doesn't seem overly concerning here. However, I cannot say for certain what effects a shorter cycle using a much higher dose would do though.

i was on phone it killed my brain searching there.. i found what i was talking about earlier though regarding fake products...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5820696/

thats quite extreme isnt it?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

i was on phone it killed my brain searching there.. i found what i was talking about earlier though regarding fake products...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5820696/

thats quite extreme isnt it?

Yeah, that's concerning for sure, but not really directly-relevant to my claims. If anything, this could support my claim that anecdotal reports, either showing severe suppression or no suppression, are not sufficient to make definitive claims about Ostarine.

 

[Chados]

Yeah, that's concerning for sure, but not really directly-relevant to my claims. If anything, this could support my claim that anecdotal reports, either showing severe suppression or no suppression, are not sufficient to make definitive claims about Ostarine.

it definitely proves why so many report sides not listed by science.

https://www.steroidal.com/sarms/sarms-ostarine/ this dude / claimed scientist talks about it. it says evidence based and when you hold the mouse there it says there are links to studies but i dont see it.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

it definitely proves why so many report sides not listed by science.

https://www.steroidal.com/sarms/sarms-ostarine/ this dude / claimed scientist talks about it. it says evidence based and when you hold the mouse there it says there are links to studies but i dont see it.

Yeah, it explains why there is so much variability, perhaps in both directions, as someone may have gotten a PH, and someone may have gotten nothing. So the magnitude of benefits and adverse effects can both be swayed in anecdotal reports of people getting something that's not actually Ostarine.

Either way, this in NO WAY demonstrates that Ostarine is completely non-supressive when used at doses of not more than 25mg/day for not more than 4-5 weeks. So far the only study that even tested testosterone we've seen/posted here showed it was suppressive, but it was admittedly a longer-term study, but did use a much lower dose.

Frankly, I don't care AT ALL about what some random website says about suppression when it doesn't back it up with any citations/references. It's just more word-of-mouth nonsense that so many people have just repeated without bothering to check that it's slowly became accepted as a fact, with people "citing" other articles that themselves cite other articles saying the same thing, but none of them actually validated it with actual references/citations/studies/etc.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far you've posted a ton of stuff that doesn't address the topic at all.

 

[Chados]

Yeah, it explains why there is so much variability, perhaps in both directions, as someone may have gotten a PH, and someone may have gotten nothing. So the magnitude of benefits and adverse effects can both be swayed in anecdotal reports of people getting something that's not actually Ostarine.

Either way, this in NO WAY demonstrates that Ostarine is completely non-supressive when used at doses of not more than 25mg/day for not more than 4-5 weeks. So far the only study that even tested testosterone we've seen/posted here showed it was suppressive, but it was admittedly a longer-term study, but did use a much lower dose.

Frankly, I don't care AT ALL about what some random website says about suppression when it doesn't back it up with any citations/references. It's just more word-of-mouth nonsense that so many people have just repeated without bothering to check that it's slowly became accepted as a fact, with people "citing" other articles that themselves cite other articles saying the same thing, but none of them actually validated it with actual references/citations/studies/etc.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far you've posted a ton of stuff that doesn't address the topic at all.

that was more me saying have a look cause i cant see where the supposed link is, not saying it was proof.
i think Mike Arnold mentioned ostarine and supression somewhere.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

that was more me saying have a look cause i cant see where the supposed link is, not saying it was proof.
i think Mike Arnold mentioned ostarine and supression somewhere.

From an article written by Mike Arnold:

When Ostarine was first released, many claimed that it had no meaningful impact on the HPTA, but without any first-hand experience to corroborate these claims, the best we could do was speculate. It didn’t take long for the lab-work to begin rolling in, which revealed that Ostarine does indeed suppress testosterone production on a dose-dependent basis. However, even when used at higher dosages of say, 25 mg daily, suppression is significantly less than what one would encounter with an equivalent dose of AAS. Consequently, recovery is a breeze, with most individuals achieving full function after just a brief PCT.

So this seems to say that suppression is LESS than it is with AAS, but this doesn't mean no suppression.

He then goes on to say that it SHOULD NOT be used during PCT:

In some circles, it has become popular practice to include large doses of Ostarine as part of one’s PCT, with the claim being made that it will not adversely affect one’s recovery. Many of us use to think this was so back in the beginning, but we now know this is completely untrue. No doubt, adding Ostarine to one’s PCT will help the individual maintain a larger portion of their post-cycle gains, but at what cost? Not only will this compromise recovery, but the improved gains retention rate experienced by these individual is only temporary, as any muscle mass that was artificially maintained by the Ostarine will be lost upon cessation of the drug. Ostarine has many potential applications, but this is not one of them.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2014/ostarine-update/

So can we put this to bed now?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

More from Mike (from a Q&A on another forum):

You should not take ostarine during PCT, as it is suppresive of the HPTA, especially at the dosages used in Osta RX. Anything even remotely approaching 25 mg daily will have significant suppressive effects on the HPTA. Even 10 mg will suppress the HPTA and hinder recovery.

 

[Chados]

mike Arnold

For example, when Ostarine is used in higher dosage (25 mg and above), it has a suppressive effect on testosterone production. This, in turn, lowers the DHT conversion rate, which is the primary “gyno fighter” in the body. Androgens such as DHT have powerful anti-estrogenic effects, so when DHT levels are reduced via the suppression of natural testosterone production, the possibility of developing gyno from even small amounts of estrogen increases substantially. By adding Andarine into the equation, the ratio of androgens to anabolics is improved, minimizing the possibility of gyno formation.


While Ostarine is capable of causing HPTA suppression, it is generally mild in this area, resulting in only a small degree of suppression in comparison to AAS. While recovering from a steroid cycle can be tough, with many people failing to restore testosterone production to full capacity even with an extended PCT, recovery after using Ostarine is a breeze. A short PCT is usually all that is required to bring one’s T level back up to previous readings.

then you left this out that was finnishing his sentence? => (At lower dosages (under 10 mg/day) PCT may not be required at all.)

theres no denying its supressive but i dont think its supressive at low dosage for a short amount of time. i definitely dont believe it will affect pct negatively while taking something like nolva or clomid.

as far as liver damage cholesterol etc goes it hasnt shown any significant damage in studies.

and yes we can let it go

 

[muscleupcrohn]

mike Arnold

For example, when Ostarine is used in higher dosage (25 mg and above), it has a suppressive effect on testosterone production. This, in turn, lowers the DHT conversion rate, which is the primary “gyno fighter” in the body. Androgens such as DHT have powerful anti-estrogenic effects, so when DHT levels are reduced via the suppression of natural testosterone production, the possibility of developing gyno from even small amounts of estrogen increases substantially. By adding Andarine into the equation, the ratio of androgens to anabolics is improved, minimizing the possibility of gyno formation.


While Ostarine is capable of causing HPTA suppression, it is generally mild in this area, resulting in only a small degree of suppression in comparison to AAS. While recovering from a steroid cycle can be tough, with many people failing to restore testosterone production to full capacity even with an extended PCT, recovery after using Ostarine is a breeze. A short PCT is usually all that is required to bring one’s T level back up to previous readings.

then you left this out that was finnishing his sentence? => (At lower dosages (under 10 mg/day) PCT may not be required at all.)

theres no denying its supressive but i dont think its supressive at low dosage for a short amount of time. i definitely dont believe it will affect pct negatively while taking something like nolva or clomid.

as far as liver damage cholesterol etc goes it hasnt shown any significant damage in studies.

and yes we can let it go

Did I leave out a part? I think it's YOU who did not comprehend what he was saying. Simply because PCT may not be needed does NOT mean that there is no suppression at all, only that it may be minor and self correcting, as we've seen with, for example, a study using LGD-4033 where testosterone was reduced after 3-4 weeks of use, but returned to normal 5 weeks after discontinuation. In this case, PCT wouldn't really be "necessary/needed," as levels returned to normal pretty quickly, but that in no way means that it isn't at least somewhat suppressive.

For crying out loud, Mike himself explicitly said it should not be used during PCT; what more do you want? I''ll quote it again:

No doubt, adding Ostarine to one’s PCT will help the individual maintain a larger portion of their post-cycle gains, but at what cost? Not only will this compromise recovery, but the improved gains retention rate experienced by these individual is only temporary, as any muscle mass that was artificially maintained by the Ostarine will be lost upon cessation of the drug. Ostarine has many potential applications, but this is not one of them.

I'm also still waiting for the studies you mentioned.

You're saying you "don't think," but your suggestion that it'd be completely fine to use during PCT is currently unsubstantiated by research AND by Mike Arnold's comments. You're entitled to your opinion, but the consensus seems to be in contrast to it.

 

[Chados]

Did I leave out a part? I think it's YOU who did not comprehend what he was saying. Simply because PCT may not be needed does NOT mean that there is no suppression at all, only that it may be minor and self correcting, as we've seen with, for example, a study using LGD-4033 where testosterone was reduced after 3-4 weeks of use, but returned to normal 5 weeks after discontinuation. In this case, PCT wouldn't really be "necessary/needed," as levels returned to normal pretty quickly, but that in no way means that it isn't at least somewhat suppressible.

For crying out loud, Mike himself explicitly said it should not be used during PCT; what more do you want?

I'm also still waiting for the studies you mentioned.

i dont think ive said you (should) run it during pct. i said i dont believe its strong enough to affect it if you run it low.

eh yes? you clearly copied two pages while only linking one leaving this out.. (At lower dosages (under 10 mg/day) PCT may not be required at all.)




http://www.ironmagazine.com/2014/ostarine-revisited/ ostarine in pct

 

[muscleupcrohn]

i dont think ive said you (should) run it during pct. i said i dont believe its strong enough to affect it if you run it low.

eh yes? you clearly copied two pages while only linking one leaving this out.. (At lower dosages (under 10 mg/day) PCT may not be required at all.)




http://www.ironmagazine.com/2014/ostarine-revisited/ ostarine in pct

Again, you are misunderstanding the point he was making. Simpy because PCT is not required for lower doses DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT ISN'T SOMEWHAT SUPPRESSIVE, only that your testosterone levels may return to normal in a relatively short period of time, which would render PCT unnecessary if you're returning to baseline within a few weeks without it. This also deals with using it AS a cycle, not as PCT for a cycle. Using it during your PCT could certainly hinder the normalization of testosterone that is the entire point of the PCT. I'm not leaving anything out; I already explained why it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Either way, my primary point, that it's silly and not a good idea to use Ostarine during PCT is SUPPORTED by MA, and you have provided NO research to suggest that it is not suppressive at lower doses, so I think we're done here.

Edit: I see he did later say you could run 5-7mg in PCT, but even this is largely unsupported by actual evidence, so proceed with caution if you must do it, and definitely get your levels tested again after PCT to make sure you did recover.

Edit 2: It looks like the article you posted was from February 2014, while a later article, posted in December of 2014, he seemed to suggest that Ostarine in PCT isn't a good idea

No doubt, adding Ostarine to one’s PCT will help the individual maintain a larger portion of their post-cycle gains, but at what cost? Not only will this compromise recovery, but the improved gains retention rate experienced by these individual is only temporary, as any muscle mass that was artificially maintained by the Ostarine will be lost upon cessation of the drug. Ostarine has many potential applications, but this is not one of them.

http://www.ironmagazine.com/2014/ostarine-update/

Edit 3: Either way, you have not come close to sufficiently demonstrating that Ostarine is not at all suppressive if used at no more than 25mg/day for no more than 4-5 weeks, which was your original claim that you said research shows. Where is this research man?