Ostarine Questions
- Thread starter papapudgy
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blacklac
Well-known member
Why something like Formastane, which is apparently very effective at lowering estrogen, for something so mild? Why not something like I3C?
Not that I think formastane products are bad. I just don't think tanking estrogen is wise. People have good results with formastane for TRT. Seems over the top, here.
20mg and boobless over here.
Not that I think formastane products are bad. I just don't think tanking estrogen is wise. People have good results with formastane for TRT. Seems over the top, here.
20mg and boobless over here.
Grayson
Well-known member
Forma is also utilized to lower SHBG because after few weeks ostarine begins to tie up endogenous test.
That's why iml osta rx has longjack and fenugreek, however Forma would be more effective here.
blacklac
Well-known member
I see. That makes more sense now. Wonder if its worth it now. I only have like 4-5 weeks left... I have SERM's for PCT and I'm actually going right from Osta to FRL Alpha Mass, then Clomid.
I have like 4-6 weeks of AEN APE laying around though... Some CL Blue Growth too, but I haven't the slightest if anything in that would impact SHBG. Never really looked into that before.
xhrr
Well-known member
Judging ingredients alone ape would have a bigger impact than blue gene on lowering shbg. A low dose form although I've gone pretty high with it at times cause I love form is very nice in conjunction with osta if you have the funds. 1-2 pumps ED would be more than enough.
Grayson
Well-known member
This x2.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Why something like Formastane, which is apparently very effective at lowering estrogen, for something so mild? Why not something like I3C?
Not that I think formastane products are bad. I just don't think tanking estrogen is wise. People have good results with formastane for TRT. Seems over the top, here.
20mg and boobless over here.
I dunno man, formestane is relatively mild compared to the other options you have out there. It's just the strongest OTC probably. (obviously I could be wrong so correct away folks if yah know)
Grayson
Well-known member
For E control (water retention, bloating), it's way more effective than arimistane or dhaa (new erase) in my experience at least.
I wonder what osta would be like with aromasin dosed EOD, since aromasin has a 27 hour half life compared to forma 2.27 hour peak.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Yeah, still pretty mild IMO.
You could just low dose EOD aromasin and keep some letro around for emergencies
Grayson
Well-known member
Yeah, still pretty mild IMO.
You could just low dose EOD aromasin and keep some letro around for emergencies
Maybe for the third run.
Right now I'm on day 4 and loving the increased recovery and glycogen retention.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
xhrr
Well-known member
Is that for TD Form? I would think td would be longer lasting but I haven't really looked in to it.
Grayson
Well-known member
kissdadookie
Well-known member
There's really no real alternative option other than TD with formestane. The stuff has real chitty oral bioavailibility.
xhrr
Well-known member
No big I thought it lasted a little longer as a TD so I wasn't sure. It's definitely a bonus.
booneman77
Legend
Ha a TD with a 3hr half life youd have to put on like chapstick... allllllll daaayyyy looonnnggg
Fit1962
Member
I hope you guys don't mind the bump to my question, I could really use the advise
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Define "worked out all my life." There's working out then there's training towards a goal.
Fit1962
Member
I've lifted weights. My goal was to have an athletic build. I have a 40 chest, 47 shoulders, 30 waist, 14.25 arms
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Look into a hypertrophy training routine combined with a proper weight gaining diet. I think you are probably still quite capable of gaining quite a bit as it is now, so jumping from just protein and creatine to hormonals sounds like a pretty big jump to me. It's your own personal choice though
Mainly because I'm basing this off of the amount of weight you are aiming to gain, I don't think 2-5 lbs is that much of a stretch for 8 weeks natty.
Fit1962
Member
Actually I'm well aware of both. I would really prefer to have my question about ostarine answered.
Tagger
Well-known member
To each their own.
Always run on cycle support.
PCT is up to you. I don't use a PCT for Osta or an AI.
Totally your decision.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Like you said, the reports on needing a PCT and/or AI is conflicting. Majority of people claiming not being suppressed and/or recovering from suppression just fine mostly don't have bloodwork to substantiate their claims. I personally would just light dose a SERM post cycle just to be on the safer side, perhaps use DAA as well, and then keep a AI around just in case you encounter any estrogen issues. I would go with clomid rather than nolva as well. Maybe 25 mg ED or EOD. Get your bloodwork done before you start the ostarine cycle and then get it done post cycle as well as end of PCT to make sure you are not suppressed.
Tagger
Well-known member
Read this earlier as a 3yrs half life lol
Fit1962
Member
Look into a hypertrophy training routine combined with a proper weight gaining diet. I think you are probably still quite capable of gaining quite a bit as it is now, so jumping from just protein and creatine to hormonals sounds like a pretty big jump to me. It's your own personal choice though
Mainly because I'm basing this off of the amount of weight you are aiming to gain, I don't think 2-5 lbs is that much of a stretch for 8 weeks natty.
Problem being when you've been lifting weights for 31 years gains don't come In pounds/year anymore they come in ounces.
Tagger
Well-known member
Did you see my answer to your question?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Depends on how you have been lifting. I see plenty at the gym spinning their wheels for the past 2 years. No gains at all. If they trained properly and ate properly however, quite a number of them would see a nice growth spurt.
I also did answer your question on PCT and AI, just look a few posts above this one.
Fit1962
Member
Advise me on on cycle support?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
I don't feel like you would need cycle support for ostarine TBH. PCT, most likely. AI, possibly.
At your age though, I think it would be more beneficial to look into HRT?
Fit1962
Member
Yes I'm definitely familiar with the spin your wheels type. However, that's not me. I work quite hard and consistent. I also eat very well. But still at 52 years old and the years of training, I have gained 3lbs of lean mass in the last 3 years. No fat gain.
Fit1962
Member
I did, my test was over 800 and the dr said no way! lol
Fit1962
Member
Serm?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
That's damn fine t levels.
Read my post a few above that addresses PCT for you. It includes SERM.
Fit1962
Member
Lol yes. That's why I was hoping to get a little boost from ostarine.
Tagger
Well-known member
Ok after reading a couple studies in class... Lol... I'm a slacker.
Osta isn't very suppressive at all @25 mg. 24hr half life so dose it once a day. Or split doses. Your choice.
"Osta does not appear to have the M1 metabolite that creates toxicity in S4". However, why would you take the chance? Spend the money to get a cycle assist just so you don't have to buy a ****ing liver in the future...
If you are worried about an AI then get a cycle assist product like AR1MACARE PRO because they have an AI built in.
Studies say that Osta does not have any androgenic effects and that's why I don't run it with an AI.
If you are running higher than 25mg, get a SARM. Nolva, Clomid what ever you want.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
It will probably suppress you at 25 mg's a day for 8 weeks. Most likely easy to recover from, but I would recommend getting some clomid and aromasin. Low dose the clomid 25 mg ED or EOD (depends which ends up being more effective for you), maybe 50 mg's ED even (if you need it, but you probably won't need that dose), and keep the aromasin around (also known as exemestane) just in case you run into estrogen issues.
Reason for the blood test before you start the cycle is to know your level going into the cycle. You test again post cycle to see where you ended up at. Then at the end of PCT or see if you have effectively recovered or not.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Studies are also looking at a 3 mg dose. Not bb'er 25 mg dose. Thus the "minimal suppression" and whatever other "safe" data goes out the window because you are using doses multiple times the studied therapeutic dose.
Tagger
Well-known member
I didn't read pharmaceutical studies. It was fellow body builders who ran it at 25mg.
Fit1962
Member
Would it be better to run at 20mg and maybe not worry about suppression?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Blood tests to back them up? Because I'm largely seeing anecdotes of not being suppressed with no blood work to demonstrate this either way.
Even at like 10 mg's there has been incidents with suppression. Just get blood work done before, post, and post PCT. It's highly unlikely that it will cause any permanent issues ASFAIK from reading through a bunch of these ostarine threads here and elsewhere.
This is a good blog post to read on the subject: Invalid Link Removed
Cliff noted the important part of that post for you here:
Anecdotally guys are reporting that Ostarine is suppressing their natural testosterone levels. For example a male aged 35 ran Ostarine started taking 5 mg’s/day of Ostarine working up to 10 mg’s [2]. He had blood work done before and 7 days into his ostarine cycle. His testosterone levels dropped from 15.9 nmol/L to 9.6 nmol/L, or a 40% drop in just 7 days. There are other anecdotal reports of natural testsoterone suppression from Ostarine as well [3] This means Ostarine is likely suppressive to your natural testosterone levels, and not something you should use during PCT.
Also worth noting, is Ostarine’s effect on estrogen. In the same study referenced earlier on elderly men using 3 mg’s per day the found a 37% drop in estradiol. What is interesting is that many guys have reported increased estrogen levels while using Ostarine, this is believed to be a result of increased expression of the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogens).
Grayson
Well-known member
Russianstar is the man.
It could be mental, but after 5 days I swear my boys feel softer. Not that that's a bad thing, but just noting that if one is sensitive to exogenous hormones, they might want to watch themselves.
Personally, I'm enjoying the ever loving **** out of it.
Also, for those that are sensitive to prolactin, just run 500-1600mg of l-dopa (extract dependant) pre bed.
And even though it doesn't effect body comp, zma helps with keeping endogenous hormones running as optimally as possible
Fit1962
Member
Ok great so clomid after? And have an AI around for possible gyno?
Fit1962
Member
So you feel,like you have received good gains from ostarine? I would prefer to keep the whole cycle very simple if possible adding the very least supps I can.
Grayson
Well-known member
It's up to you.
Have it on hand, but the increased estro is what causes the joint lubrication.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Pretty much. AI also just in case you run into estro issues on-cycle. Get all your supplies in place before you start your cycle. Definitely get your bloodwork done (new bloodwork, before cycle), post, and after PCT to make sure you are not walking around assuming you have fully recovered when in fact you are notably below your original baseline.
Yup. So AI only if you start exhibiting too much bloating or gyno symptoms, etc.
Tagger
Well-known member
I'm just going to throw this out there. Your not going to get gyno from Osta, but it is good to have protection on hand. Everyone is different after all.