Ostarine better than Test for andropause?

[EasyEJL]

I think new studies are showing that the prostate is worse when estrogen is high with low DHT and better when DHT is high with low estrogen. That's why aging men have prostate issues and younger men with their high test don't. But I haven't the time to look the studies up right now :aargh:

yeah, also it does seem that its something more in the conversion of testosterone to DHT than DHT itself too, as exogenous DHT doesn't have quite the same effect as getting that DHT level via conversion. Moderate dose DHT has been looked at and studies run for a potential for HRT.

 

[EasyEJL]

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/4/1467

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/87/4/1462

I'd like to buy some injectible DHT honestly.

 

[DragonRider]

Moderate dose DHT has been looked at and studies run for a potential for HRT.

Yes, it's already widely used in Europe. Don't know why the US is so slow in adopting new medications.

 

[ImJ2x]

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/4/1467

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/87/4/1462

I'd like to buy some injectible DHT honestly.

So can I assume you would prefer straight injectable DHT over the new AndroHard stuff, due to AndroHard's need to convert into DHT?

 

[EasyEJL]

So can I assume you would prefer straight injectable DHT over the new AndroHard stuff, due to AndroHard's need to convert into DHT?

yeah, that way I have true accuracy in dosing. I don't want it as a cycle, but a long term adjunct to trt.

 

[DragonRider]

yeah, that way I have true accuracy in dosing. I don't want it as a cycle, but a long term adjunct to trt.

Have you considered Andractim? It is transdermal.

 

[EasyEJL]

Have you considered Andractim? It is transdermal.

Married, 3 children so trying to avoid transdermal if possible.

 

[disgraziato]

This is an appropriate forum for discussing anti-aging, provided we're not advising extraordinary dosages, say anything over 10-15mg/day....Beyond that, I agree, it should be discussed elsewhere, but within these parameters, its a "possible" replacement or even adjunct to TRT

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Married, 3 children so trying to avoid transdermal if possible.

That's why a lot of transdermals are going out the door... it's too easy to transfer and it's a bit of a bitch to have to apply it and let it dry, etc.

I'm going to start a topic now on the androseries for TRT :mischievous:

 

[MasterMind]

Easy, why wouldn't you use an OTC AI? ATD (am I using enough acronyms, LOL) is a very strong AI-- nearly as strong as Letro, I hear. I use it to obliterate gyno, exactly like Letro. [But the feds just made Gaspari pull Novedex. They must have ATD in their sights. I just stocked up...]

Serious? Estradiol goes up quite a bit using Novedex XT.
hxxp://cyber-sport.us/zalaczniki/novedexarticle_153_114.pdf

 

[ImJ2x]

Serious? Estradiol goes up quite a bit using Novedex XT.
hxxp://cyber-sport.us/zalaczniki/novedexarticle_153_114.pdf

I really don't feel like reading 17 pages tonight, but they do say in the very first paragraph (the summary) that the T:E ratio rose 438%! Wouldn't that alone kick gyno's ass?

 

[MasterMind]

I really don't feel like reading 17 pages tonight, but they do say in the very first paragraph (the summary) that the T:E ratio rose 438%! Wouldn't that alone kick gyno's ass?

Those numbers do look good on paper but remember the false Test readings ATD causes. Have a look at the diagram at page 99. E2 goes up about 25 %. Stick with letro for gyno.

 

[ImJ2x]

Have you ever used ATD? Or had gyno?
Even that study you cite seems to support my position. Gyno, as I understand it, occurs when the T:E ratio skews too far towards E. In your study, ATD increased the T:E ratio by 438% towards T. That's exactly why ATD destroys my gyno everytime. Case closed.

 

[Gutterpump]

Serious? Estradiol goes up quite a bit using Novedex XT.
hxxp://cyber-sport.us/zalaczniki/novedexarticle_153_114.pdf

Estrone and Estriol go down, Estradiol goes up. Interesting.. So this is a selective estrogen inhibitor it seems. Too bad it wasn't the other way around.. suppress E2 and leave the others alone.

 

[MasterMind]

Have you ever used ATD? Or had gyno?
Even that study you cite seems to support my position. Gyno, as I understand it, occurs when the T:E ratio skews too far towards E. In your study, ATD increased the T:E ratio by 438% towards T. That's exactly why ATD destroys my gyno everytime. Case closed.

Case reopened.
I have used ATD before and didn't get any benefit from it whatsoever.
In an article from 1980, ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7210060 it was shown that 1,4,6-axxrostatriene-3,17-dione (ATD) does interfere with a RIA for testosterone.

"Radioimmunoassay (RIA) for testosterone (T) in unchromatographed plasma extracts from ATD-treated rats gave spuriously high values for T. Cross-reaction and chromatographic studies subsequently showed that ATD and, to a much greater extent, its metabolite(s) were responsible for this overestimation. Celite column chromatography proved to be an effective way of separating T from ATD and its product(s) of metabolism."
And case closed again.:147:

 

[ImJ2x]

OK. Are you demanding that I quit using ATD to eliminate the gyno I get (lumps everytime; lactation twice) when I use SD? Even though ATD has proven to be 100% effective (at least for me)? Are you demanding that I only use Letro for this purpose? Even though Letro is a prescription drug, and barely stronger as an AI than ATD? Or do you just wanna fight? What is your endgame, my friend?

 

[MasterMind]

No disrespect bro, I just don't believe in ATD.

 

[ImJ2x]

No disrespect bro, I just don't believe in ATD.

Fair enough.
I just grow weary of defending a product that I find to be extremely effective in an extremely important (but narrow) role. I can't understand why the Rx Letro is so worshipped, yet OTC ATD is vilified, when their AI profiles (and gyno-fighting capabilities) are very similar. I think it all goes back to Gaspari's unfortunate decision to name his ATD product "Novedex," an obvious play on the name "Nolvadex," which ATD is truly nothing like. This opened the door for all manner of (justifiable) criticism. Had he only named it ATDadex, people might love the stuff as much as I do.

 

[omni]

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/87/4/1467

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/short/87/4/1462

I'd like to buy some injectible DHT honestly.

Then you want some masteron.

 

[EasyEJL]

but masteron doesn't seem to have the body composition effects that actual DHT does.