Oral Primo + Enclomiphene (+hCG if needed) Cycle - Log

[NegativeMass]

Went and did some reading to refresh my memory on HCG. I don't think 250 ED is a crazy dose while taking suppressive anabolics. I've done this and felt great. I used it to keep some test and estro in my system on cycle. No sides for me. Unfortunately no on cycle bloods though.

The 250 or 500 2X a week is a common dose for TRT patients to keeps theirs leydig cells awake and function a little, but I doubt that's enough to produce sufficient T on suppressive compounds. There are studies where men recieved 5k units a week for long periods of time without adverse effects. The safety profile of HCG is good. AAS users will commonly use 2 or 3 k a week for fertility or to come off TRT, sometimes in conjunction with HMG and clomid/enclomiphene.

I seriously doubt 250 or 500 2x a week will do much but keeps your balls from shutting down completely while on a good dose of suppressive orals. If you are using TRT as well that dose makes sense. Maybe if you're an outlier on the extreme end of HCG responsiveness it would work.

My amateur 2 cents.

 

[NegativeMass]

Damn. I'm using their Enclo right now for PCT. I'm planning to draw bloods, but was going to do that on the 4th week. They have a good rep and many like them..

Good Enclo is hard to find. There are a few good sources out there though with testing done.

 

[Hyde]

Went and did some reading to refresh my memory on HCG. I don't think 250 ED is a crazy dose while taking suppressive anabolics. I've done this and felt great. I used it to keep some test and estro in my system on cycle. No sides for me. Unfortunately no on cycle bloods though.

The 250 or 500 2X a week is a common dose for TRT patients to keeps theirs leydig cells awake and function a little, but I doubt that's enough to produce sufficient T on suppressive compounds. There are studies where men recieved 5k units a week for long periods of time without adverse effects. The safety profile of HCG is good. AAS users will commonly use 2 or 3 k a week for fertility or to come off TRT, sometimes in conjunction with HMG and clomid/enclomiphene.

I seriously doubt 250 or 500 2x a week will do much but keeps your balls from shutting down completely while on a good dose of suppressive orals. If you are using TRT as well that dose makes sense. Maybe if you're an outlier on the extreme end of HCG responsiveness it would work.

My amateur 2 cents.

Well, it’s not the point to have normal testosterone. That’s another pipe dream like using a SERM on cycle to achieve this.

The idea is to keep the balls from atrophying so PCT is swift & leydig cells are not damaged, and to provide a base of ESTROGEN.

Also, primo acetate is a very different oral than something like M1T or X-Tren, with regards to suppression. This is using one of the mildest steroids available, so we should expect the testes to respond meaningfully during this co-administration.

 

[BBiceps]

AAS users will commonly use 2 or 3 k a week for fertility or to come off TRT, sometimes in conjunction with HMG and clomid/enclomiphene.

Not true, I used 250-500 2x week (with Clomid) to get off TRT for fertility purposes, after 2 months I went from “too low to measure” sperm to making babies.

Listen, do whatever makes you happy but you won’t change my mind.

 

[WesleyInman]

Every idea I have seen in this thread is hideous.

This is hands down the worst thread I have seen in awhile.

Anadrol is suppressive.
Primo tabs are suppressive.
HCG is suppressive.

Enclomiphene, not suppressive and can help return HPTA or even give you a slightly higher naturally occurring T level.

Should never be combined w AAS.

Useless endeavor.

Azteca Labs sells Primo tabs btw and that brand is A+. Ur welcome.

Happy new year and congrats on the second worst thread in AM in 2022.

 

[mokoko]

Every idea I have seen in this thread is hideous.

This is hands down the worst thread I have seen in awhile.

Anadrol is suppressive.
Primo tabs are suppressive.
HCG is suppressive.

Enclomiphene, not suppressive and can help return HPTA or even give you a slightly higher naturally occurring T level.

Should never be combined w AAS.

Useless endeavor.

Azteca Labs sells Primo tabs btw and that brand is A+. Ur welcome.

Happy new year and congrats on the second worst thread in AM in 2022.

Anadrol is not as suppressive as other AAS. See the study I have linked to in one of my previous comments.

You are incorrect about enclo. A lot of people use it with SARMs and I have seen some successful cycles with tbol and anavar.

 

[Dick-Hertz]

Anadrol is not as suppressive as other AAS. See the study I have linked to in one of my previous comments.

You are incorrect about enclo. A lot of people use it with SARMs and I have seen some successful cycles with tbol and anavar.

No Wes is not "incorrect". Silliest "cycle" I've seen in a while. Thx for the laughs...

 

[mokoko]

No Wes is not "incorrect". Silliest "cycle" I've seen in a while. Thx for the laughs...

I'm not the first one trying HCG + primo cycle, go and check for yourself (hint: Bill Roberts suggested it many years ago and there are some reports even on this forum)

Im done explaining myself, if you don't like this thread and get outta here. Nobody forced you into reading and commenting.

 

[BBiceps]

I'm not the first one trying HCG + primo cycle, go and check for yourself (hint: Bill Roberts suggested it many years ago and there are some reports even on this forum)

HCG+Primo is not that bad, Enclo+Primo is, I told you that from the start.

 

[mokoko]

Went and did some reading to refresh my memory on HCG. I don't think 250 ED is a crazy dose while taking suppressive anabolics. I've done this and felt great. I used it to keep some test and estro in my system on cycle. No sides for me. Unfortunately no on cycle bloods though.

The 250 or 500 2X a week is a common dose for TRT patients to keeps theirs leydig cells awake and function a little, but I doubt that's enough to produce sufficient T on suppressive compounds. There are studies where men recieved 5k units a week for long periods of time without adverse effects. The safety profile of HCG is good. AAS users will commonly use 2 or 3 k a week for fertility or to come off TRT, sometimes in conjunction with HMG and clomid/enclomiphene.

I seriously doubt 250 or 500 2x a week will do much but keeps your balls from shutting down completely while on a good dose of suppressive orals. If you are using TRT as well that dose makes sense. Maybe if you're an outlier on the extreme end of HCG responsiveness it would work.

My amateur 2 cents.

HCG+Primo is not that bad, Enclo+Primo is, I told you that from the start.

Sure, but I was prepared for the enclo not to work. I did an experiment.

 

[KvanH]

Every idea I have seen in this thread is hideous.

This is hands down the worst thread I have seen in awhile.

Anadrol is suppressive.
Primo tabs are suppressive.
HCG is suppressive.

Enclomiphene, not suppressive and can help return HPTA or even give you a slightly higher naturally occurring T level.

Should never be combined w AAS.

Useless endeavor.

Azteca Labs sells Primo tabs btw and that brand is A+. Ur welcome.

Happy new year and congrats on the second worst thread in AM in 2022.

What is the worst?

 

[NegativeMass]

Every idea I have seen in this thread is hideous.

This is hands down the worst thread I have seen in awhile.

Anadrol is suppressive.
Primo tabs are suppressive.
HCG is suppressive.

Enclomiphene, not suppressive and can help return HPTA or even give you a slightly higher naturally occurring T level.

Should never be combined w AAS.

Useless endeavor.

Azteca Labs sells Primo tabs btw and that brand is A+. Ur welcome.

Happy new year and congrats on the second worst thread in AM in 2022.

It's a discussion and I'd say it's a lot more interesting than the gossip threads you post.

 

[NegativeMass]

Not true, I used 250-500 2x week (with Clomid) to get off TRT for fertility purposes, after 2 months I went from “too low to measure” sperm to making babies.

Listen, do whatever makes you happy but you won’t change my mind.

Not looking to change anyone's mind, here for discussion and knowledge sharing.

It's all good. My N = 1 experiment was successfull using HCG + oral for a short cycle. I imagine the level of success depends on ones goals.

Seems like this thread has devolved I to a pissing match. Not interested.

Good luck on your experiments @mokoko. There's always going to be dudes who think they know all and crap on any discourse. Be safe and stay healthy!

 

[Stacks1]

I'm very confused as to why someone would want to run a SERM with a suppressive compound. You're still going to run the SERM in PCT, no? I mean, for the most part they are safe but I wouldn't want to have to run a SERM for that length of time. I'd also be concerned about how the body responds to the SERM once you enter PCT. Do we know for sure if the SERM would be as effective in PCT if you've been running it for the past 14 weeks already? I am not saying it won't be and I'm not saying it's a bad idea, however I feel like this is more uncharted waters as compared to what we already know works.

 

[Hyde]

I'm very confused as to why someone would want to run a SERM with a suppressive compound. You're still going to run the SERM in PCT, no? I mean, for the most part they are safe but I wouldn't want to have to run a SERM for that length of time. I'd also be concerned about how the body responds to the SERM once you enter PCT. Do we know for sure if the SERM would be as effective in PCT if you've been running it for the past 14 weeks already? I am not saying it won't be and I'm not saying it's a bad idea, however I feel like this is more uncharted waters as compared to what we already know works.

Yeah, seems like nobody is paying attention to the more heinous risk factors of extended SERM therapy like increased potential for blood clots and ocular toxicity.

 

[KvanH]

I'm very confused as to why someone would want to run a SERM with a suppressive compound. You're still going to run the SERM in PCT, no? I mean, for the most part they are safe but I wouldn't want to have to run a SERM for that length of time. I'd also be concerned about how the body responds to the SERM once you enter PCT. Do we know for sure if the SERM would be as effective in PCT if you've been running it for the past 14 weeks already? I am not saying it won't be and I'm not saying it's a bad idea, however I feel like this is more uncharted waters as compared to what we already know works.

The idea is trying to not get suppressed in the first place. If that were to be the case, then one would also not need to run a PCT. I'm not saying it works or that it's a good idea, but that's the thought behind it. We do know, that it doesn't work for 'proper' cycles and gear, from the experiments people have shared here on AM. Could it work for some mild and shorter runs? I don't know. And if it did, would doing that still make sense? I don't know about that either.

 

[Hyde]

The idea is trying to not get suppressed in the first place. If that were to be the case, then one would also not need to run a PCT. I'm not saying it works or that it's a good idea, but that's the thought behind it. We do know, that it doesn't work for 'proper' cycles and gear, from the experiments people have shared here on AM. Could it work for some mild and shorter runs? I don't know. And if it did, would doing that still make sense? I don't know about that either.

My main argument is that it doesn’t make sense even if it did work, because there’s nowhere to go if you are bound to what your endogenous production can support.

Congratulations, you have a cheat code to speed up reaching your genetic limit. I found mine, and it turns out it’s like 20lbs of lean mass ago and still ridiculously small & weak. For years when I came off for extended periods I kept slowly dropping back to a very modest limit. I just don’t see a point in messing with my hormones for that level of mediocrity. Just enjoy being healthy & who you are if you don’t need to do something unattainable for yourself naturally.

I’m not gatekeeping; I’m trying to make the philosophical argument that if natural limits are still your ultimate limit, why rush to reach them? If you don’t maintain the training and diet, it’s not like you can hold your gains anyway. Like someone could quickly get them and then focus on other things much more but still retain all the lean mass. It’s not like you can just get them and own them - you merely rent your gains, natural or not. And rent comes due every day.

 

[Smont]

Anadrol is not as suppressive as other AAS. See the study I have linked to in one of my previous comments.

You are incorrect about enclo. A lot of people use it with SARMs and I have seen some successful cycles with tbol and anavar.

You can find a study to agree with anything you want. But in real life, if you go pop a 50mg anadrol everyday for 6 weeks or whatever and go get bloodwork your going to find out that you have crashed your testosterone or it's severely low, low enough that your going to either need to PCT or spend some time with low testosterone and the potential problems that go along with it.

Now , there nothing wrong with experiments, I'm all about it. But just because your doing a experiment dosent make it a good idea, and your doing a experiment others have already done and the large majority fail.

Even if it 100% works, you take your serm and anadrol or whatever oral you choose, you run your 4-6 week oral cycle and don't need PCT.

Great! But, let's address a few things. First you cannot build much muscle in that time frame. Even if you gain 20lbs it's unlikely that more then 1-2 is muscle. Building muscle takes time and the most genetically gifted bodybuilders on the planet running grams of gear with GH and slin only average about 10-12lbs of muscle per YEAR! That's about 1 lb per month and they don't come off gear. There cruise is more gear then Your cycle.

So you run your cycle, it ends and within about 2 weeks your gonna loose about 80-90% of what you thought was gains and it's actually glycogen, and water. Then over the next 6 weeks or so your gonna loose that other 10-20% because your natural testosterone production is not going to support muscle built on steroids unless your far behind what is achievable natural.

So even if this "works" and you don't need PCT, where's the reward? If you wanna gain 15lbs of water and fuel storage in 4 weeks and not need PCT you could use mk677 and creatine

 

[mokoko]

You can find a study to agree with anything you want. But in real life, if you go pop a 50mg anadrol everyday for 6 weeks or whatever and go get bloodwork your going to find out that you have crashed your testosterone or it's severely low, low enough that your going to either need to PCT or spend some time with low testosterone and the potential problems that go along with it.

Now , there nothing wrong with experiments, I'm all about it. But just because your doing a experiment dosent make it a good idea, and your doing a experiment others have already done and the large majority fail.

Even if it 100% works, you take your serm and anadrol or whatever oral you choose, you run your 4-6 week oral cycle and don't need PCT.

Great! But, let's address a few things. First you cannot build much muscle in that time frame. Even if you gain 20lbs it's unlikely that more then 1-2 is muscle. Building muscle takes time and the most genetically gifted bodybuilders on the planet running grams of gear with GH and slin only average about 10-12lbs of muscle per YEAR! That's about 1 lb per month and they don't come off gear. There cruise is more gear then Your cycle.

So you run your cycle, it ends and within about 2 weeks your gonna loose about 80-90% of what you thought was gains and it's actually glycogen, and water. Then over the next 6 weeks or so your gonna loose that other 10-20% because your natural testosterone production is not going to support muscle built on steroids unless your far behind what is achievable natural.

So even if this "works" and you don't need PCT, where's the reward? If you wanna gain 15lbs of water and fuel storage in 4 weeks and not need PCT you could use mk677 and creatine

I totally agree with with you and its not the cycle im doing...

I'm doing hcg with primo. Most likely I would do it for 6-8 months. Also considering adding TRT dose.

 

[Hyde]

I totally agree with with you and its not the cycle im doing...

I'm doing hcg with primo. Most likely I would do it for 6-8 months. Also considering adding TRT dose.

I’d tell you just to run a cc of test, but I know you already have the primo and I know the desire to use what you have, so I will say that you could still expect a great ride with 200/200 test & primo along with HCG. I would not deprive my body of test for 6 months straight, so I support the idea of stacking it here.

That’s also about as ‘healthy’ as steroid use gets - just want to pull a CBC panel a couple months in to make sure your blood isn’t getting way too thick (test will thicken blood some, but primo generally to a slightly greater degree per mg).

It will almost always be fine if you don’t, but since it’s your first run and learning what does what to you & you are trying to be safe as possible, it’s like $40 including the blood draw fee through Ulta Lab Tests (they send you orders after purchase that you take to a Quest Diagnostics). You can get a CMP with it and lipids even bundled for like $60.

 

[KvanH]

Well I can't tell if the Receptor Chem Enclo is really Enclo, but it is an effective SERM. Just got blood test results, and on 5th week of PCT my test is at 866 ng/dl. That is a double of my baseline.