Non hormonal "strength" stacks

sespress

Well-known member
In currently using Diesel Test HC, Laxogenin, and follidrone 2.0. I'm in PCT and I honestly feel like I've not lost any strength.... Just some size and weight of associate with bloat while on cycle (perhaps mostly to do with MK677).

Anyone getting similar to a real run strength results from these alternative supps? X-gells included.

I'm a pleased customer and actually I'm spending less and no PCT if I just continue this. It's almost over shadowed my last PH run of Epi-Andro/4-Andro. Which wasn't really designed to get me huge but delivered a roughly equivalent strength boost to the stuff I'm on now.

I had a one week period at the beginning of PCT where I actually lost strength. Then these arrived in the mail. I'm right back up now. Anyone have thoughts or similar experience? Please post your stack!
 
Non hormonal "strength" stacks

I was actually interested in running a Laxo + epicatechin stack while in PCT. I'm currently in PCT at the end of week 2, which is after an 8 week 1/4andro stack. Using Clomid and Primeval Labs Mega PCT with Kreaklyn as well. I think after week 5 I may hop on a stack similar to yours.
 
Probably Follidrone 2.0, Laxogenin, creatine, HMB for 8 weeks bulk. And then start a cut sometime soon after that with CLA, l-Carnitine, and may run another cycle of either 1/4 andro or epi/1 andro

How were the results from epi/1 andro?
 
csline said:
Probably Follidrone 2.0, Laxogenin, creatine, HMB for 8 weeks bulk. And then start a cut sometime soon after that with CLA, l-Carnitine, and may run another cycle of either 1/4 andro or epi/1 andro

How were the results from epi/1 andro?
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I liked the stack a lot but it wasn't a get huge run at all. Strength up by a lot and increase in size. I've retained a lot of the strength as I said because this PCT i have been running the above.

What's HMB/CLA?
(I'm so lazy I'm hoping you'll explain it before I google it )
 
csline said:
Probably Follidrone 2.0, Laxogenin, creatine, HMB for 8 weeks bulk. And then start a cut sometime soon after that with CLA, l-Carnitine, and may run another cycle of either 1/4 andro or epi/1 andro

How were the results from epi/1 andro?
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More specifically there was a 8lb increase, 6lean. Mk bloat was probably 1-2lbs +- some fat gain from increased hunger. Increased chest and arms by over an inch. Some shrinking now, less the MK bloat.
 
johnnyp said:
Phosphatidic acid
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This, PA is great. Lecithin granules are the most cost effective route.

Also, if you're not already taking creatine and betaine, they've great "staples" that can help (for convenience, I use PowerMax XT for this, and things like Ergonine, Finish Line, and Triumph are also all great).

X-Gels are another nice supp, but I personally avoid it because of my medical history. If you don't go that route, bulk HMB is very affordable and really shines if you up your training volume and/or frequency. Some people say it's justified during normal training phases, but it truly shines in the above scenario.
 
Agree with the Powermax XT recommendation. So convenient to have Creatine, Betaine, L-Alanyl L-Glutamine, Taurine, COP, etc all in 1 scoop.

For strength I'm still getting great results from Alphamax XT/ABE/ArA. Many people on the forum have had great results from that stack.
 
mountain1 said:
Phosphatidic Acid has always helped me gain a lot of strength!
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Same here. I love triumph by OL. I wish I had an unlimited supply of that stuff! haha
 
Anabeta elite and x gels is the tried and true combo on this forum for recomping and recovery (not including a SERM obviously). ABE increases testosterone, lean mass, reduces body fat %, etc.
 
X-Gels and AlphaMax XT is my favorite stack for strength gains. Not only did I get noticeable strength gains both times I ran this stack, but I also stayed very lean. X-Gels will hep with strength and pumps. AlphaMax XT will boost libido, increase testosterone and improve body composition. All of this is natural and does not require any type of PCT
 
Arachidonoc acid (SNS XGELS), HMB, creatine mono, phosphatidic acid, and either alpha max XT or Anabeta elite.
 
SJFIT said:
How did you like laxogenin?
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Well been taking it with FD 2 and the diesel test. But I've taken FD 2 W/o so the effect is either the truck fuel or the Laxogenin. It's pretty impressive honestly. I didn't expect to be blown away. Thought it be mild to unnoticeable.
 
If you can handle the amount of forskolin...ABE + ArA + AlphaMax XT. Will keep your body comp in check and deliver nice strength gains.

A few weeks ago I use androcrine and epidrone and saw nice strength results but that may not be the type of stack you are looking for.
 
using Sparta Nutrition Hercules and Liquid Labs Myo....epi and laxo right now and the gym performance has improved, last week was one of my best weeks in the gym in awhile
 
R1balla said:
If you can handle the amount of forskolin...ABE + ArA + AlphaMax XT. Will keep your body comp in check and deliver nice strength gains.

A few weeks ago I use androcrine and epidrone and saw nice strength results but that may not be the type of stack you are looking for.
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Will the forskolin cause some kind of reaction?
 
I'm feeling:

ABE + ARA + creatine + TMG + PA

+ stimulants pre



On a budget I'd say a good pre + Ergonine
 
Driven2lift said:
I'm feeling:

ABE + ARA + creatine + TMG + PA

+ stimulants pre



On a budget I'd say a good pre + Ergonine
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Help a noob out!
ABE = PES AnaBeta?
ARA = Arachidonic Acid (this one I know)
TMG = betaine (trimethylglycine)
PA = phenethylamine (right?). Got a big bucket on hand. What do you suggest for dose, timing? PW right?


Where Arachidonic Acid is concerned it's a part of a omega fatty acid right? I'm taking some flax oil everyday right now, I'm guessing the ARA levels are just way higher in the specific supps?

I've no exp with ABE or TMG, but I do use a daily choline bitartrate supp and that supposedly is a metabolite of it. I'm trying to find a good phosphatized supplement, something that has more than just choline in it but also isn't soy lecithin. (Have you ever tried a spoon full of that? Oh good god it's so bad).

Any recommendations? Sounds like I could knock out the TMG and phosphatized choline all in one since it's a metabolite and I've heard good things about the phosphatized amino supplements and brain / body health and performance.
 
sespress said:
Help a noob out!
ABE = PES AnaBeta?
ARA = Arachidonic Acid (this one I know)
TMG = betaine (trimethylglycine)
PA = phenethylamine (right?). Got a big bucket on hand. What do you suggest for dose, timing? PW right?


Where Arachidonic Acid is concerned it's a part of a omega fatty acid right? I'm taking some flax oil everyday right now, I'm guessing the ARA levels are just way higher in the specific supps?

I've no exp with ABE or TMG, but I do use a daily choline bitartrate supp and that supposedly is a metabolite of it. I'm trying to find a good phosphatized supplement, something that has more than just choline in it but also isn't soy lecithin. (Have you ever tried a spoon full of that? Oh good god it's so bad).

Any recommendations? Sounds like I could knock out the TMG and phosphatized choline all in one since it's a metabolite and I've heard good things about the phosphatized amino supplements and brain / body health and performance.
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Nah, PA= phosphatidic acid. Soy lecithin is cheaper than phosphatidic acid supplements, that's why people use it for PA. ArA is a polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid, not the same as flaxseed oil. I would not use ArA while using flaxseed oil (and vice versa).
 
Synapsin said:
Nah, PA= phosphatidic acid. Soy lecithin is cheaper than phosphatidic acid supplements, that's why people use it for PA. ArA is a polyunsaturated omega-6 fatty acid, not the same as flaxseed oil. I would not use ArA while using flaxseed oil (and vice versa).
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Right! OK so I was talking about phosphatized supps and so was everyone else in a different vocabulary lol. But that soy though... Want a spoon full of waxy as$? Lol. I'm furiously googling something out there that's gonna have this stuff in a cap.
 
Also any suggestions on products that would contain several of everyone's recommendations like an all in one? Or as close as possible.

I'm so capsuled out brothers. I must take like 10+ caps of random supps a day....lol.
 
A cool chart about PA. Note there's raptors. Anything with killer lizards is a plus! (J/k)

https://blog.priceplow.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/phosphatidic-acid-mtor.jpg[IMG]


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^ nicely covered for you

If you've never used TMG that's a great starting point for you. Carries synergy with your creatine too

Anabeta Elite is PEScience's natural anabolic, more designed for lean mass gain but of course that correlates with (and is beneficial for) strength/performance.

It would be 2 caps with your 2 largest meals

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Tons of product reviews here on AM for it
 
Just realized my Str3ngth OL product has phosphatized choline in it with the Laxogenin. HOWEVER I've read now in two places that PA won't really occur in "extracellular" quantities from the choline as it's "highly regulated". More reading.

Anyways so I'll definitely check out the PES product your talking about. And I'm not opposed to stopping taking the flax oil for ArA. I'm just now looking for something with ArA or PA AND something else I'm looking at in one Cap. Although this is getting difficult lol. These seem fairly specific so it might not be possible. Especially that some PA products are like >$100
 
sespress said:
Also any suggestions on products that would contain several of everyone's recommendations like an all in one? Or as close as possible.

I'm so capsuled out brothers. I must take like 10+ caps of random supps a day....lol.
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It's hard to find an "all in one" supplement. I know that's the most cost efficient, but it's not reality. That being said, there are many solid products that contain a few killer ingredients that make it stackable with other products. I would suggest AlphaMax XT or ABE with ArA to get things started. I've used both many times before and have used both stack. They both are somewhat similar in terms of body comp results (also diet dependent) but IMO, AlphaMax XT yields greater results in libido increase and strength gains. Don't get me wrong, I love ABE. Not as much as OG AB but it's a very good supplement. Can't go wrong with either :)
 
sespress said:
Just realized my Str3ngth OL product has phosphatized choline in it with the Laxogenin. HOWEVER I've read now in two places that PA won't really occur in "extracellular" quantities from the choline as it's "highly regulated". More reading.

Anyways so I'll definitely check out the PES product your talking about. And I'm not opposed to stopping taking the flax oil for ArA. I'm just now looking for something with ArA or PA AND something else I'm looking at in one Cap. Although this is getting difficult lol. These seem fairly specific so it might not be possible. Especially that some PA products are like >$100
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A few notable worthwhile supplements (imo) would be:

Old-fashion Creatine monohydrate
Evomuse BMP
CEL M-Test (test-booster)
Antaeus Labs hydra head six or titan
PA
HMB
HICA
Peak02
 
R1balla said:
It's hard to find an "all in one" supplement. I know that's the most cost efficient, but it's not reality. That being said, there are many solid products that contain a few killer ingredients that make it stackable with other products. I would suggest AlphaMax XT or ABE with ArA to get things started. I've used both many times before and have used both stack. They both are somewhat similar in terms of body comp results (also diet dependent) but IMO, AlphaMax XT yields greater results in libido increase and strength gains. Don't get me wrong, I love ABE. Not as much as OG AB but it's a very good supplement. Can't go wrong with either :)
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ABE W/ ArA? I'll check it out. I'm also having some alpha max on hand, although I'm taking diesel test so i discontinued the other one... Felt like too much. Any brand for PA? HUGE price differences on some. Like 200% diff on some. There must be a reason...
 
sespress said:
ABE W/ ArA? I'll check it out. I'm also having some alpha max on hand, although I'm taking diesel test so i discontinued the other one... Felt like too much. Any brand for PA? HUGE price differences on some. Like 200% diff on some. There must be a reason...
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How long did you run Alphamax XT for? It stacks perfectly with ABE/ArA. What made you stop it to run diesel test if you don't mind me asking?
 
Synapsin said:
Anabeta elite and x gels is the tried and true combo on this forum for recomping and recovery (not including a SERM obviously). ABE increases testosterone, lean mass, reduces body fat %, etc.
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This right here. The combination is tried and true, and can readily be stacked with Fearn Soy Lecithin granules for that PA.
 
cubsfan815 said:
How long did you run Alphamax XT for? It stacks perfectly with ABE/ArA. What made you stop it to run diesel test if you don't mind me asking?
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Like I said just felt like I was doubling up what I might not need to. Also the diesel was waaay stronger than the alpha max, and I didn't think I needed two supplements in that same category.

I ran alpha max for about 2 weeks.
 
Olympus Labs Triumph is the all in one supplement you were asking for previously, laxogenin isn't worth it IMO.
 
sespress said:
Grabbed. I had a sample once but I practically gagged on the flavor. It's very....slimy, lol. I'll just need to suck it up!
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Probably the soy lecithin (for PA content). Suck it up indeed haha. I'm from an era where supplements tasted awful and we just chugged them
 
Driven2lift said:
I'm feeling:

ABE + ARA + creatine + TMG + PA

+ stimulants pre



On a budget I'd say a good pre + Ergonine
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Good choice of stack. I would add some reduce xt to keep the gains lean and fight off cortisol.
 
sespress said:
Like I said just felt like I was doubling up what I might not need to. Also the diesel was waaay stronger than the alpha max, and I didn't think I needed two supplements in that same category.

I ran alpha max for about 2 weeks.
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Alphamax takes about 2 to 3 weeks to kick in and should be run for 8 weeks total.
 
Adizzle1 said:
Alphamax takes about 2 to 3 weeks to kick in and should be run for 8 weeks total.
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Crap, well I dialed it back in yesterday. I think I had the stomach reaction to the forskolin cause my stomach rebelled madly. Or it could be that + the diesel test. I'll have to stagger when I take them, try again.

On another note I have a bottle of testify also. Nothing else here has ashwaganda in it. Thoughts?
 
cheftepesh1 said:
Good choice of stack. I would add some reduce xt to keep the gains lean and fight off cortisol.
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Hmm, so PCT is almost over, just a few days left. I really dunno about these OTC estrogen control chems even I compared how they worked on cycle versus exemestane it wasn't even a comparison.

Why would you throw that in during an off cycle period? Just to stop anything that might boost test from also boosting e?
 
sespress said:
Crap, well I dialed it back in yesterday. I think I had the stomach reaction to the forskolin cause my stomach rebelled madly. Or it could be that + the diesel test. I'll have to stagger when I take them, try again.

On another note I have a bottle of testify also. Nothing else here has ashwaganda in it. Thoughts?
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Regarding the forskolin in AlphaMax XT, taking it with food could help stomach issues if you haven't tried that. Also, some people do better starting with low doses of forskolin and increasing it. Perhaps going with one serving for a little while, then up to two and see if your stomach handles it better.
 
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