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rugger48 said:
Um no, right now at least 10 other qbs easily before Vick. Not only his healthy but his decision making are questionable, Kelly's offense will require that. There is a reason he won't be there after this year. Your arguement he had to hold the ball longer would work if he wasn't a mobile qb. His age is also working against him, his career span will be more like a McNair or McNabb than an elway or manning.
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um, yes. 2010 was the only season vick had a decent line and he played at an MVP level and almost won the MVP. im not arguing that vick is holding the ball longer. its a FACT. watch the all-22 film on it. Andy didnt want him running around every play. He stayed in the pocket, waited for those deep routes to develop and with a bad o line, would get hit more often than not.
 
rugger48 said:
I'm also surprised they didn't try to get nassib instead of Barkley in the 4th. Nassib should be would have been a better fit.
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fit for what? have you seen kellys NFL offense? no, you havent. so how do you know Nassib would be a good fit? Kelly doesnt need a mobile qb. he didnt have one every year at Oregon.
 
i dont' think vick is a very good quarterback...i know he has 4 pro bowls but really only 1 solid season in his whole career, it was more of a fluke than a sign that vick is a starter in the nfl

the problem with the eagles is they have a team set up to win now however if they get rid of vick the chances of them winning is greatly reduced

imo the nfc east is pretty weak overall, theres no powerhouse teams....9-7 record might win the division again but i don't think anyone will look at them as a real threat
 
Young Gotti said:
i dont' think vick is a very good quarterback...i know he has 4 pro bowls but really only 1 solid season in his whole career, it was more of a fluke than a sign that vick is a starter in the nfl

the problem with the eagles is they have a team set up to win now however if they get rid of vick the chances of them winning is greatly reduced

imo the nfc east is pretty weak overall, theres no powerhouse teams....9-7 record might win the division again but i don't think anyone will look at them as a real threat
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the eagles roster is one of the youngest in the NFL. vick is the oldest player on the team. only like 3 players are 30+. the offense is in win now mode, but with the new scheme, i am expecting them to have issues/bumps. the D is far from a finished product. def rebuilding phase
 
R1balla said:
um, yes. 2010 was the only season vick had a decent line and he played at an MVP level and almost won the MVP. im not arguing that vick is holding the ball longer. its a FACT. watch the all-22 film on it. Andy didnt want him running around every play. He stayed in the pocket, waited for those deep routes to develop and with a bad o line, would get hit more often than not.
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Didnt say it wasnt a fact, I said that wasnt the problem he has the mobility still move when the pocket collaspes, peters was his left tackle, what side is Vicks blindside? so no, stop being a homer 10 other qbs i take if before him easily, and probably another 5 more if the line is solid. 1 season doesnt prove much.


Maybe you dont know this, but every qb gets better with an improved oline.
 
R1balla said:
fit for what? have you seen kellys NFL offense? no, you havent. so how do you know Nassib would be a good fit? Kelly doesnt need a mobile qb. he didnt have one every year at Oregon.
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LOL

kelly is running pretty much the same offense he ran at oregon, barkley ran a prostyle offense and nassib ran read option his last year. Now your just being ridiculous. Hes not going to change his bread and butter, lol
 
rugger48 said:
Didnt say it wasnt a fact, I said that wasnt the problem he has the mobility still move when the pocket collaspes, peters was his left tackle, what side is Vicks blindside? so no, stop being a homer 10 other qbs i take if before him easily, and probably another 5 more if the line is solid. 1 season doesnt prove much.


Maybe you dont know this, but every qb gets better with an improved oline.
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10qb? i'd say more like 15 better than vick

7 super winning qbs, then we have qb's like matt ryan, andrew luck, rg3, cam newton, kapernick who are all better....then theres the likes of wilson, cutler, schaub, romo, stafford, dalton, and rivers....who all can be argued as better qb's than vick, he's def in the bottom half of the league in terms of starting qb's
 
rugger48 said:
LOL

kelly is running pretty much the same offense he ran at oregon, barkley ran a prostyle offense and nassib ran read option his last year. Now your just being ridiculous. Hes not going to change his bread and butter, lol
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You do understand chip didn't have a mobile qb every year at oregon, right?
 
rugger48 said:
Didnt say it wasnt a fact, I said that wasnt the problem he has the mobility still move when the pocket collaspes, peters was his left tackle, what side is Vicks blindside? so no, stop being a homer 10 other qbs i take if before him easily, and probably another 5 more if the line is solid. 1 season doesnt prove much.

Maybe you dont know this, but every qb gets better with an improved oline.
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Yes, vick could have taken off, but reid and marty were trying to make him what he isn't. A pure pocket qb.
 
I have been a vick hater these past two years...but in order to understand his flaws, you must understand what he was asked to do...things he has never done before. If he can grasp this offense, I'm gonna post back on here and laugh at you all!
 
R1balla said:
I have been a vick hater these past two years...but in order to understand his flaws, you must understand what he was asked to do...things he has never done before. If he can grasp this offense, I'm gonna post back on here and laugh at you all!
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damn i hope not i'll be in philly a decent amount of time this fall, i'll loose my mind

but in defense, vick wasn't any good in atlanta either so he's been an average/below average qb his whole career besides one year, even with chip kelly i don't see him just being amazing all of a sudden
 
R1balla said:
You do understand chip didn't have a mobile qb every year at oregon, right?
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yes, but I also do know that you need someone some athletic ability, something barkley doesnt have. Nassib has it and has run the offense before barkley has not. Oh before you miss read this again, not nassib isnt exactly mobile.
 
R1balla said:
I have been a vick hater these past two years...but in order to understand his flaws, you must understand what he was asked to do...things he has never done before. If he can grasp this offense, I'm gonna post back on here and laugh at you all!
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samething he has been asked to do that almost every coach figured out as they were heading out the door, vicks a bad decision maker.

Im fine with you coming back to laugh, but make sure when he fails , you dont comeback with more excuses why he isnt succeeding and admit he isnt an elite qb.
 
Young Gotti said:
damn i hope not i'll be in philly a decent amount of time this fall, i'll loose my mind

but in defense, vick wasn't any good in atlanta either so he's been an average/below average qb his whole career besides one year, even with chip kelly i don't see him just being amazing all of a sudden
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Exactly my thoughts. When teams are more worried about you running than throwing, you are doing it wrong. He has had one decent year and I think it was magnified even more due to the fact that NO ONE thought he would do it. I totally agree his o-line was sh*t. How could it not be? They lost 4 starters. To simply say his play was the product of a bad line and relying on one "feel-good" season from him is totally ignoring his history.
 
At least no one named the man with the fuzzy caterpillar stuck to his forehead, Joe Flucco, as a good QB. That warmed my heart. haha
 
ryane87 said:
At least no one named the man with the fuzzy caterpillar stuck to his forehead, Joe Flucco, as a good QB. That warmed my heart. haha
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I think the jury is still oput on him, last year cameron was the problem , look at his playoff run last year it was pretty good. I dont think he is elite , but I think hes is better than average, think the next couple seasons are going to be important.
 
rugger48 said:
samething he has been asked to do that almost every coach figured out as they were heading out the door, vicks a bad decision maker.

Im fine with you coming back to laugh, but make sure when he fails , you dont comeback with more excuses why he isnt succeeding and admit he isnt an elite qb.
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False. Atl he was free to run. 2011 2012 he wasn't.
 
I'm not making excuses. I know he's a poor decision maker. But understand the system he was in and what was asked of him first
 
ryane87 said:
Exactly my thoughts. When teams are more worried about you running than throwing, you are doing it wrong. He has had one decent year and I think it was magnified even more due to the fact that NO ONE thought he would do it. I totally agree his o-line was sh*t. How could it not be? They lost 4 starters. To simply say his play was the product of a bad line and relying on one "feel-good" season from him is totally ignoring his history.
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You are lookin at one side of the ball. D was terrible which took away the eagles running game. Its easy to defend the passes when u know its coming
 
R1balla said:
I'm not making excuses. I know he's a poor decision maker. But understand the system he was in and what was asked of him first
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I understand what was asked of him, there is a reason he was great for 1 season, the planets aligned 1 season. By your own admission you understand he is a bad decision maker, think how kelly's offense works and apply that to Vick, if hes a bad decision maker kellys offense will be a bad fit. Kellys offense is a giant eqaution, the qb has to make multple reads very quickly something vick isnt good at, this is why you dont need a fast mobile qb for these types of offense, decision making is a key element.
 
R1balla said:
False. Atl he was free to run. 2011 2012 he wasn't.
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no not false, his reaction was to yes they had some plays designed to run, but most of running was reactionary the pass rush. Hence the reason he failed, he chose to act like a runner when he should have extended the play behind the line of scrimmage, so no the answer is not false. when reid asked him to do the same thing he couldnt do it.
 
rugger48 said:
no not false, his reaction was to yes they had some plays designed to run, but most of running was reactionary the pass rush. Hence the reason he failed, he chose to act like a runner when he should have extended the play behind the line of scrimmage, so no the answer is not false. when reid asked him to do the same thing he couldnt do it.
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completely different discussion and this point wasnt what i was referring to.
 
rugger48;3996478[B said:
]I understand what was asked of him[/B], there is a reason he was great for 1 season, the planets aligned 1 season. By your own admission you understand he is a bad decision maker, think how kelly's offense works and apply that to Vick, if hes a bad decision maker kellys offense will be a bad fit. Kellys offense is a giant eqaution, the qb has to make multple reads very quickly something vick isnt good at, this is why you dont need a fast mobile qb for these types of offense, decision making is a key element.
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so what was asked of him, since you know?

so in one argument you say CK needs a mobile qb and this post says you dont...hmmm
 
R1balla said:
fit for what? have you seen kellys NFL offense? no, you havent. so how do you know Nassib would be a good fit? Kelly doesnt need a mobile qb. he didnt have one every year at Oregon.
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i was saying CK doesnt need a mobile qb..

rugger48 said:
LOL

kelly is running pretty much the same offense he ran at oregon, barkley ran a prostyle offense and nassib ran read option his last year. Now your just being ridiculous. Hes not going to change his bread and butter, lol
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this post is suggesting Nassib would be a good fit because he ran the read option and that is what CK will be doing, according to you
 
huh, yes because Nassib has run that type of offense before. How can I put it better, nassib ran a read option offense before, therefore would it make sense for a qb who has run a paticular type of offense to be in a similiar offense again. I never said Kelly needs a Mobile qb, I said that he needs a good decision making qb that at least some atheletic ability.



There is a reason why

Kaep
wilson
Griffin


did very well there first year, they have natural raw talent(extending a play,running on a option,etc) alonq with good decision making.

a good example of this is SF with alex smith and SF with Kaep, The difference being the offense runs better with a atheletic qb with good decision making skills then with a qb with good decision making skill that manages a game. Ask any San Fransico fan who would they rather have under center.




remember this all started with your claim that hes a top 3 qb, he is not.
 
R1balla said:
You are lookin at one side of the ball. D was terrible which took away the eagles running game. Its easy to defend the passes when u know its coming
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I'm talking about his history when I was talking about running and throwing. In Atl, he was invited to pass he was so bad. He just looked like a baller at times because he can run. I was stating why through his whole career he has had only ONE real good year. Prior to that, his biggest claim to fame was running 1000 yards for a QB. Not my goal if I'm supposed to be passing the ball.
 
ryane87 said:
I'm talking about his history when I was talking about running and throwing. In Atl, he was invited to pass he was so bad. He just looked like a baller at times because he can run. I was stating why through his whole career he has had only ONE real good year. Prior to that, his biggest claim to fame was running 1000 yards for a QB. Not my goal if I'm supposed to be passing the ball.
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I agree. That's why reid screwed up when trying to make him a pure pocket passer. As far as chip and his system, and you can find quotes from ck himself, that he doesn't have a system. He creates his scheme based on his personnel. This is why he doesn't need a mobile qb. Sure its always better to have some mobility for the threat of the read option, but if he isn't mobile, chip won't make him run a true read option scheme
 
R1balla said:
I agree. That's why reid screwed up when trying to make him a pure pocket passer. As far as chip and his system, and you can find quotes from ck himself, that he doesn't have a system. He creates his scheme based on his personnel. This is why he doesn't need a mobile qb. Sure its always better to have some mobility for the threat of the read option, but if he isn't mobile, chip won't make him run a true read option scheme
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I never payed enough attention to college football to make a determinent about CK. I thought if he tried to strictly run his offense from Oregon, the Eagles would be in trouble. He strikes me as a smart man the more I have heard from him and I don't think he needs an extremely mobile quarterback to run his offense, whatever it may be. Case in point, he drafted Matt Barkley. Not to be confused with any read option QB. That's why I think Vick's days are numbered and there will not be a magical redo of '10. I think either Foles or Barkley is coming out of that competition in the end with Vick and maybe Dixon if he decides to keep him as wrinkles to the offense, especially in the red zone where you have a shorter field and you need to give the D something to think about.
 
rugger48 said:
huh, yes because Nassib has run that type of offense before. How can I put it better, nassib ran a read option offense before, therefore would it make sense for a qb who has run a paticular type of offense to be in a similiar offense again. I never said Kelly needs a Mobile qb, I said that he needs a good decision making qb that at least some atheletic ability.



There is a reason why

Kaep
wilson
Griffin


did very well there first year, they have natural raw talent(extending a play,running on a option,etc) alonq with good decision making.

a good example of this is SF with alex smith and SF with Kaep, The difference being the offense runs better with a atheletic qb with good decision making skills then with a qb with good decision making skill that manages a game. Ask any San Fransico fan who would they rather have under center.




remember this all started with your claim that hes a top 3 qb, he is not.
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Being a life long SF fan I will say I think the 49ers did Smith dirty but I would much rather have Kap under center simply for his ability to extend plays and get big yards. Smith was elusive and a smart qb never really turned the ball over but Kap is way more athletic and with J.H in his ear he will get the smarts he needs. No further comment on the Vic convo. I think its becoming a bit redundant.
 
ryane87 said:
I never payed enough attention to college football to make a determinent about CK. I thought if he tried to strictly run his offense from Oregon, the Eagles would be in trouble. He strikes me as a smart man the more I have heard from him and I don't think he needs an extremely mobile quarterback to run his offense, whatever it may be. Case in point, he drafted Matt Barkley. Not to be confused with any read option QB. That's why I think Vick's days are numbered and there will not be a magical redo of '10. I think either Foles or Barkley is coming out of that competition in the end with Vick and maybe Dixon if he decides to keep him as wrinkles to the offense, especially in the red zone where you have a shorter field and you need to give the D something to think about.
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Agreed. He already said in a press conference he won't be running it exactly. Right now, they are working on the read option as a part of the offense, not THE offense
 
Niners will absolutely bring home the Lombardi this year!! Our draft was stellar, the one player to really watch out for is Tank Carradine, with Justin Smith having health issues lately I think Tank will step in and make a huge impact. Crabtree getting hurt sucks but I actually think it's a blessing in disguise. Patton and Jenkins will have very good years this year and with Boldin as a mentor that's money!! So we have one of the most exciting Qb's in football, one of the best running backs, James as a playmaker on 3rd downs, a great O Line, oh yeah an VD kickin ass. Now let's look at the defense.... great D Line, the best Linebacking core in football, and now a revamped and very exciting defensive backfield. Not to mention one of the best head coaches in the game. Oh yeah and they all get along!!!
 
cant friggin wait till September i finally got nfl ticket on directv!!! jealous? i guess with this broken femur of mine i have no choice but to sit on couch and play fantasy football .... damn im prolly gonna get fat again:(
 
Lol I am so ready for football and I am very jealous you have the ticket!! I want it specifically for fantasy football
 
niners4reggie said:
Niners will absolutely bring home the Lombardi this year!! Our draft was stellar, the one player to really watch out for is Tank Carradine, with Justin Smith having health issues lately I think Tank will step in and make a huge impact. Crabtree getting hurt sucks but I actually think it's a blessing in disguise. Patton and Jenkins will have very good years this year and with Boldin as a mentor that's money!! So we have one of the most exciting Qb's in football, one of the best running backs, James as a playmaker on 3rd downs, a great O Line, oh yeah an VD kickin ass. Now let's look at the defense.... great D Line, the best Linebacking core in football, and now a revamped and very exciting defensive backfield. Not to mention one of the best head coaches in the game. Oh yeah and they all get along!!!
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Im picking Jenkins to have a break out year. J.H is already saying he is greatly improved and I think him and Kap are going to have some good chemistry! Kind of sad this is the last year at the Stick but the new stadium is going to be beautiful!
 
McCrew530 said:
Im picking Jenkins to have a break out year. J.H is already saying he is greatly improved and I think him and Kap are going to have some good chemistry! Kind of sad this is the last year at the Stick but the new stadium is going to be beautiful!
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I agree, and Patton is going to surprise a lot of people this year!! Damnit September hurry up!!!!
 
niners4reggie said:
I agree, and Patton is going to surprise a lot of people this year!! Damnit September hurry up!!!!
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Right? I have been a 49ers fan my entire life and these past two going on three years have been amazing. Its like the anticipation for the next season is more exciting than the last!
 
McCrew530 said:
Right? I have been a 49ers fan my entire life and these past two going on three years have been amazing. Its like the anticipation for the next season is more exciting than the last!
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Exactly!! It seems like with each year we get better and more well rounded!!
 
How bout Mike Vick and Shady killing it so far? I love how every one hates in Vick. He's a top 10 QB in the right offense.

I think someone on here tried to put Andy no arm dalton and Phillip pick 6 Rivers above Vick? That's just blasphemy.

Vick does need to learn how to slide however. He needs to see he's not 25. Also Kelly has to slow it down a touch. This is not college. O-lineman are starters for a reason. You won't be able to sub in and out. Also it's time to get Bryce some more touches, McCoy will gas out too soon.

BTW....this coming from a die hard Dallas fan
 
av6258 said:
How bout Mike Vick and Shady killing it so far? I love how every one hates in Vick. He's a top 10 QB in the right offense.

I think someone on here tried to put Andy no arm dalton and Phillip pick 6 Rivers above Vick? That's just blasphemy.

Vick does need to learn how to slide however. He needs to see he's not 25. Also Kelly has to slow it down a touch. This is not college. O-lineman are starters for a reason. You won't be able to sub in and out. Also it's time to get Bryce some more touches, McCoy will gas out too soon.

BTW....this coming from a die hard Dallas fan
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I have Vick and Mccoy and I'm wrecking my league. Here is my team

Vick
Aj green
Julio jones
Shady
Jordan Cameron (tight end)
Stafford (flex)
Defense is based on weekly match up


I agree on the Mccoy touches. Last week he had 11 carries so that will help. He proved once again he can catch with over 100 yards receiving.

The most important stat? Vick isn't turning the ball over.
 
maybe the eagles can figure out a way to get Mariota drafted next year, I doubt he falls past 2nd or 3rd pick.
 
rugger48 said:
maybe the eagles can figure out a way to get Mariota drafted next year, I doubt he falls past 2nd or 3rd pick.
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There is a good CHANCE Kelly leaves at the end of the year to take Mack Browns spot in Texas. Another Spurrier and Pertrino.
 
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