Next Cycle Ideas

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NewAgeMayan said:
Im not sure I understand?

The study measures plasma levels, how can this be erroneous? The quantities are what they are.

How much bioavailable 11kt do you know is supposed to be effective? Like, you obviously have a figure in mind.
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i see what u mean I just hoped for higher absorbation level from tds
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Based on the evidence Ive seen, and opinions of others I trust, I doubt 5mg td tren will be equivalent to 70mg inj (500mg weekly as you said above).

BUT!! As per the test studies (5mg td versus 200mg inj test e), 5mg tren is probably not as scarily different than 70mg. Like, you guys are reacting like it wont do jack. But 5mg is alot closer to 70mg than 200mg. So the end results you see may well still be in the same ball park at least.
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Not 5 mg, it would be 10mg, I was told 100mg of product would be more or less 500mg of injectable so 10% of that would be 10mg don't know how closer we'd be getting
 
I'm sure it depends on the application site too, the thinner the skin the more it absorbs, wasn't there a study done of application of Td's via the scrotum?
 
solidsnake said:
I'm sure it depends on the application site too, the thinner the skin the more it absorbs, wasn't there a study done of application of Td's via the scrotum?
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hamdysayed said:
I'm thinking if u spread it on a larger part of the body and add hand sanitizer couple times after more should get absorbed
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As far as I know, the 10-20% bioavailability is a best case scenario. Scrotum, lol lets not go there.

Spreading on a larger area may help, Id have to look up what the study coverage was.

Using handsanitiser at the app site post-app after the initial solvent has dried may also help.

But note: these practices may increase transference risk. And, hey, most people use td's successfully without having to resort to such tactics.

None of the crap Ive posted need change what you do with your td's, theyre not going to suddenly stop working. Again, my motive was to point out that the vast majority of a td dose remains unabsorbed at the skin surface.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
As far as I know, the 10-20% bioavailability is a best case scenario. Scrotum, lol lets not go there.

Spreading on a larger area may help, Id have to look up what the study coverage was.

Using handsanitiser at the app site post-app after the initial solvent has dried may also help.

But note: these practices may increase transference risk. And, hey, most people use td's successfully without having to resort to such tactics.

None of the crap Ive posted need change what you do with your td's, theyre not going to suddenly stop working. Again, my motive was to point out that the vast majority of a td dose remains unabsorbed at the skin surface.
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true bro true
 
So bottom line we need to be careful especially if we have kids and the boyz using Td tren are gonna have an ace cycle, case closed?
 
The whole situation makes no sense, it's clear that if TD application still resulted in "within" range blood plasma then clearly PA the God is WRONG. The dude is a hard head on a lot of topics if you really dive into his studies and discussions on PHF. I'm sure I can find quite a few studies showing pharma meds permitting 30%+ absorption. The main carrier in this stuff is DMSO, look that up. **** pulls anything into your skin lower than 300g/mol
 
netflixNchill said:
The whole situation makes no sense, it's clear that if TD application still resulted in "within" range blood plasma then clearly PA the God is WRONG. The dude is a hard head on a lot of topics if you really dive into his studies and discussions on PHF. I'm sure I can find quite a few studies showing pharma meds permitting 30%+ absorption. The main carrier in this stuff is DMSO, look that up. **** pulls anything into your skin lower than 300g/mol
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how long you have been on bro what's ur dosage and results are like ?
 
Dosage is 1.5ml a day split into 3 doses. Only been on since Monday and I can tell you the physique changes are apparent. I've been off cycle for 12 weeks and my pump has literally been none existent since pct ended. Did shoulders on Wednesday (only 3 days using the stuff) and my traps were blown tf up. No exaggeration. This tren has no ester, which means it's working instantly once it's absorbed. Both me and my friend (who is running the test/tren combo) agree that there is an instant effect like taking test suspension/ tren suspension injections. And you feel really hot 5 min after application
 
netflixNchill said:
Dosage is 1.5ml a day split into 3 doses. Only been on since Monday and I can tell you the physique changes are apparent. I've been off cycle for 12 weeks and my pump has literally been none existent since pct ended. Did shoulders on Wednesday (only 3 days using the stuff) and my traps were blown tf up. No exaggeration. This tren has no ester, which means it's working instantly once it's absorbed. Both me and my friend (who is running the test/tren combo) agree that there is an instant effect like taking test suspension/ tren suspension injections. And you feel really hot 5 min after application
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niceeeeeeeee
 
netflixNchill said:
The whole situation makes no sense, it's clear that if TD application still resulted in "within" range blood plasma then clearly PA the God is WRONG. The dude is a hard head on a lot of topics if you really dive into his studies and discussions on PHF. I'm sure I can find quite a few studies showing pharma meds permitting 30%+ absorption. The main carrier in this stuff is DMSO, look that up. **** pulls anything into your skin lower than 300g/mol
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But the studies confirm what he claims.

Please present the studies showing pharma meds administered by TD having 30%+ absorption. Then we can compare pharma TD with UGL DMSO techniques.

This discussion needs objective evidence, not just "but dmso is bomb brah".
 
I must admit that with a quick google search I found no studies claiming exact %'s of absorption. Only that they're a viable option to hypodermic needles. However, I also did not once see 10% or "low" absorption in any of the 5 studies I quickly grazed through. So I'll leave it at purely antidotal evidence. I know what it feels like when strong anabolics are at work, as I'm sure everyone else on this post does. So to whoever is curious about the stuff, either try it or don't. Doesn't matter to me
 
netflixNchill said:
I must admit that with a quick google search I found no studies claiming exact %'s of absorption. Only that they're a viable option to hypodermic needles. However, I also did not once see 10% or "low" absorption in any of the 5 studies I quickly grazed through. So I'll leave it at purely antidotal evidence. I know what it feels like when strong anabolics are at work, as I'm sure everyone else on this post does. So to whoever is curious about the stuff, either try it or don't. Doesn't matter to me
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Will you keep us updated on your progress bro?
 
I will prolly have to clarify this 4eva...

Im not doubting what you feel. Im not claiming the product is underdosed and should be avoided.

Do we avoid all other TDs that work because of absorption facts?

I am saying, though, that based on the evidence thus far, it is unlikely you are getting more than 20% (fuk and that is generous) skin penetration out of a dose. Plus, the initial first-skin-layer absorption window is less than 30mins.
 
I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around 5mg of test being enough to put test in normal range for a TRT patient. Just doesn't make sense
 
netflixNchill said:
I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around 5mg of test being enough to put test in normal range for a TRT patient. Just doesn't make sense
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Lol, bro, I know. I use dermatrest man. When I first came across Pat's claims I couldnt believe it. But to date, I havent read any scientific evidence that contradicts him. It only corroborates his claims.

This is gonna be crude as fuk, and the comparison wont be anywhere near as neat as the math might indicate, but consider this:

Average male test level is 700 ng/dl. Thats 700 nanograms test per 100ml blood.

A nanogram is tiny. Lol. One thousand millionth of a gram. So 700 of them, per 100ml blood.

Theres on average 5lt blood in a male body. So, assuming even plasma distribution, thats 35,000 nanograms of plasma test in the body.

Wanna know how many nanograms 5mg of test is, if also evenly distributed in plasma throughout the body?

100,000ng/dl. But in the study 5mg measured as 350ng/dl.

Wtf?

So:

1) my math is fukt
2) there is clearly a tonne of other **** going on here and we are looking at things too simplistically.
3) both 1 and 2
 
solidsnake said:
I really can't see how it's 10% bro, I've had ol dermatrest in the past and at 100ml it was insane, that would have meant I was taking a very low dose of trest and it definitely did not look or feel like I was..
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Not arguing against your point, but 10mg of Trestolone Acetate per day is kinda insane.

An effective dose that smashes just about anything else is 25mg/day. Remember, I'm talking intramuscular preparation.
 
I can't compare to TD Tren because I never took TD Tren. I have taken Tren A & E, however. All I can say is that the only things that Tren does in a stronger fashion than Trest Ace is providing strength and aggression. That said, Trest provides plenty of each of those but way more mass, just as much fat burning, way more functional libido, way better mood and just as much stamina in the gym only it doesn't cripple cardio efforts.

It also provides a healthy dose of estrogen that takes a Biblically-summoned amount of AI's and SERMs to stave off.
 
fueledpassion said:
I can't compare to TD Tren because I never took TD Tren. I have taken Tren A & E, however. All I can say is that the only things that Tren does in a stronger fashion than Trest Ace is providing strength and aggression. That said, Trest provides plenty of each of those but way more mass, just as much fat burning, way more functional libido, way better mood and just as much stamina in the gym only it doesn't cripple cardio efforts.

It also provides a healthy dose of estrogen that takes a Biblically-summoned amount of AI's and SERMs to stave off.
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yeah problem with that estrogen sides.
thanks for ur input
 
So, wearing a shirt all day after application should be sufficient around children and wife? What is the take on applying about a hour PWO and then showering would follow, so its never around the family, would results be affected running it that way? Also jumping on the TD Tren/Test blend, but just want to be completely safe around the house after I apply it. Got made a 75/75 mg blend so hoping results are good from a TD.
 
hamdysayed said:
yeah I'm very concerned about that , I have to be careful with sup3r 11kt this time will apply it and leave it on for 20 minutes then shower
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That's exactly what I'm going to do with my dermatrest when I run it... I've got a 2 yr old son and will have an infant daughter by the time I'm ready to run dtrest. I think it can be done safely
 
hamdysayed said:
bro i think i will have to do this
TD trenbolone 2 month
the one for 6 weeks
and maybe test td for 2 month.
options options, how long u going to run the td for?
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Well since I'm also on test and bold I plan to only run this tren for a little over 5 weeks (I think that's how the math came out)

I don't wanna run it too far into when the Injectables are kicking in. Never ran bold before so wanna fully feel the kickin phase
 
netflixNchill said:
Well since I'm also on test and bold I plan to only run this tren for a little over 5 weeks (I think that's how the math came out)

I don't wanna run it too far into when the Injectables are kicking in. Never ran bold before so wanna fully feel the kickin phase
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ahhhhhhh
 
netflixNchill said:
Sleep has been about normal, I do get really warm for 5-10min post-application
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So thus far at least, youre seeing benefits but no typical sides. Tempting to read into that but could be premature.

Dosing, youre doing 1.5ml split into three...so applying 75mg tren total?

How is this being packaged, pump bottle? Or no pump, you use syringe to dose?
 
NewAgeMayan said:
So thus far at least, youre seeing benefits but no typical sides. Tempting to read into that but could be premature.

Dosing, youre doing 1.5ml split into three...so applying 75mg tren total?

How is this being packaged, pump bottle? Or no pump, you use syringe to dose?
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i think splitting the dose is making it more successful for him now that I'm thinking about it...
maybe if I apply .5 ml on each body part once a day can cause higher absorbation rate , what ya think
 
hamdysayed said:
i think splitting the dose is making it more successful for him now that I'm thinking about it...
maybe if I apply .5 ml on each body part once a day can cause higher absorbation rate , what ya think
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To be honest I dont know, Im dubious, at least from an absorption point of view. But maybe splitting the dose/applications results in a more favourable pharmacodynamic profile.

The reason Im dubious about splitting the apps is that unless you are also increasing the daily amount by doing so, you are still only applying X-amount of compound: 10% of 50 is 5 whether you split that 50 up into twenty doses or just do the one.

Pat Arnold talks as if 10-20% is the absolute absorption ceiling, regardless of how lipophilic the compound is (and when we are restricted to our current carrier/solvent technologies). As he noted, the obviously crude way of improving absorption is to scrub the top layer of skin (stratum corneum) with a brillo pad, removing as much of the inpenetratable dead skin as possible and expose raw flesh and blood vessels.

But at that point you may as well pin.

Im not sure how literal to take him in regards to that 10-20% best-case-scenario, but like I said earlier, Ive yet to read any science which refutes his assertion.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
To be honest I dont know, Im dubious, at least from an absorption point of view. But maybe splitting the dose/applications results in a more favourable pharmacodynamic profile.

The reason Im dubious about splitting the apps is that unless you are also increasing the daily amount by doing so, you are still only applying X-amount of compound: 10% of 50 is 5 whether you split that 50 up into twenty doses or just do the one.

Pat Arnold talks as if 10-20% is the absolute absorption ceiling, regardless of how lipophilic the compound is (and when we are restricted to our current carrier/solvent technologies). As he noted, the obviously crude way of improving absorption is to scrub the top layer of skin (stratum corneum) with a brillo pad, removing as much of the inpenetratable dead skin as possible and expose raw flesh and blood vessels.

But at that point you may as well pin.

Im not sure how literal to take him in regards to that 10-20% best-case-scenario, but like I said earlier, Ive yet to read any science which refutes his assertion.
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I'll give it a shot I think with hand sanitizer after initial application and splitting the dosage should be good
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Exfoliating soap, and gloves especially, could have a significant impact on improving absorption.
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so you are saying after application and it dries use exfoliating soap? or clean area with soap before application. using gloves would reduce the amount that is wasted by the hand rubbing it into skin?
 
later this week I am going to start my run. its a 75/75 mg test, tren. looking to get max absorption. so if the soap or sanitizer works better than just applying, I am curious to know more.
 
Erikeckert said:
later this week I am going to start my run. its a 75/75 mg test, tren. looking to get max absorption. so if the soap or sanitizer works better than just applying, I am curious to know more.
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yeah basically sanitizer will help absorb the residue not sure to what extent
 
The idea behind exfoliating soap (basically a sand soap, Evomuse sells one) and exfoliating gloves is that when you shower and use them, you are are trying to prime the application area by removing dead skin.

I wouldnt do this straight after applying the product, as it may negatively disrupt the absorption process.

Best to do it prior to applying, or some time after it.
 
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