New Adipokinetix

Aeternitatis said:
I don't know if this has been brought up yet, but phenephrine is the OTC replacement for pseudoephedrine. I don't know how much it differs for the "nor" version since I haven't bothered to look up anything on this stuff... but it is in every single OTC cough/cold medicine just about.

BTW, velvet bean is a source of L-dopa... not sure if that was mentioned yet or not.
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I'd be interested in anything you could dig up on the active in this one.
 
Well, norphenephrine aka norphenylephrine is just one of several noepinephrine catecholamines. It also goes by the name m-octopamine.

M-octopamine (I assume can come from tyramine and can be metabolized into synephrine) is a partial alpha1A and alpha1B agonist. Yeah, but that's in vitro and probably useless to us people... lol, or any mammals for that matter.

I',m not gonna bother looking into this one too much. I'm going out on a limb and assuming that simply getting pure phenephrine... which is OTC... would be more effective. More effective still is the classic and well loved stuf we all once knew... it's out there if you know where to look. I'm talking about ephedrine. Or anything in that realm as it isn't hard at all to find a chem house that supplies it. And there's always "research". ;) :D

If I were you, I'd just stick to what CNW provides in bulk: EGCG, raspberry ketones, caffeine, tyramine, forskolin, etc etc ...
 
Good points there, but the mystery lying behind this product is what makes it hard to just dismiss.
1. The original was the best ever made, 2. If DC is behind this one, you gotta wonder if he managed it again, 3. it's a gamble to use up such a high profile name on a supplement you aren't banking on.........
 
Lanbane said:
Good points there, but the mystery lying behind this product is what makes it hard to just dismiss.
1. The original was the best ever made, 2. If DC is behind this one, you gotta wonder if he managed it again, 3. it's a gamble to use up such a high profile name on a supplement you aren't banking on.........
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1) The original was good because it used very potent drugs that are now unusable. Anyone can make a good fat burner with drugs like that.

2) I don't think DC's presence makes any difference. If anything, it makes me more concerned.

3) Not at all, it's good marketing. They know that Adipokinetix is remembered for being insanely strong. So, put in an ingredient no one has heard of (nor-phenephrin) and you're gold to sell a **** load in the first months... when people buy on faith.

I won't be surprised if they release a new product called Lipokinetix... it's logical to do so and would further bank on the marketing value. But then again, a lot of people got sick from the usnic acid in Lipokinetix.
 
Aeternitatis said:
1) The original was good because it used very potent drugs that are now unusable. Anyone can make a good fat burner with drugs like that.

2) I don't think DC's presence makes any difference. If anything, it makes me more concerned.

3) Not at all, it's good marketing. They know that Adipokinetix is remembered for being insanely strong. So, put in an ingredient no one has heard of (nor-phenephrin) and you're gold to sell a **** load in the first months... when people buy on faith.

I won't be surprised if they release a new product called Lipokinetix... it's logical to do so and would further bank on the marketing value. But then again, a lot of people got sick from the usnic acid in Lipokinetix.
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1. You are correct, but that's the way it is with almost any substance. The stronger the better in a sense, and the more likely to be banned. I still have yet to see evidence of the reported deaths from norephedrine. literature from the past seemed to cite the same 3 or 4 instances. More people die from pharmaceuticals in a single day.
2. I agree with you fully, concerning safety. But as far as effectiveness he had it working for him.
3. Good marketing, but bad long term business. It's like playing your trump card when it is unnecessary. Make money for 3 months with a bad product, or find something good and make a fortune over the long term. Example: I am 99.9% sure that whatever Molecular puts out next will be worth trying. Because they use smart business.

As for Lipokinetix..... man, let's hope they don't go there.........
 
Aeternitatis said:
1) The original was good because it used very potent drugs that are now unusable. Anyone can make a good fat burner with drugs like that.

2) I don't think DC's presence makes any difference. If anything, it makes me more concerned.

3) Not at all, it's good marketing. They know that Adipokinetix is remembered for being insanely strong. So, put in an ingredient no one has heard of (nor-phenephrin) and you're gold to sell a **** load in the first months... when people buy on faith.

I won't be surprised if they release a new product called Lipokinetix... it's logical to do so and would further bank on the marketing value. But then again, a lot of people got sick from the usnic acid in Lipokinetix.
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It was Sodium Usinate not Usnic acid and 19 people(which was never proved that it was the Sodium Usinate that caused the liver failue) is not a lot of people considering how many used Lipokinetix. If your going to bash someone at least get your facts straight.
 
Sir Foxx said:
It was Sodium Usinate not Usnic acid and 19 people(which was never proved that it was the Sodium Usinate that caused the liver failue) is not a lot of people considering how many used Lipokinetix. If your going to bash someone at least get your facts straight.
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Yes, it was a sodium salt of usnic acid... okay. I don't see how I was "wrong" with that. That's like saying that "ephedra is in Primatene tablets" is wrong because it's techincally ephedrine HCI.

Anyways, I wasn't bashing. Sodium Usniate can be used safely/responsibly. In my arguement I was simply using the reputation that Lipokinetix had in juxtaposition with the value of re-using the name from a marketing standpoint. I was pointing out that it would be a double edged sword. On one side you have the repuation of an effective fat burner, on the other you have the reputation of a dangerous supp... much like products containing ephedra, though probably a lot more apt to create buzz both positive and negative because sodium usniate is more exotic.

EDIT: I would like to also point out that sodium usniate/usnic acid have a number of potential health benefits as well.
 
Well, I ordered some last week. Hopefully it will arrive soon.

I'll be able to tell you if it stacks up or not...
 
It gives me and the girl the ****s. I also seems to magnify anxiety in me strangely. I just feel a weird uneasiness when I take it.

I'm not saying anything about effecacy(sp?), but based on "how I feel" when on it, I'd rather take some caffeine and a couple primetine tabs.
 
Lean One said:
It gives me and the girl the ****s. I also seems to magnify anxiety in me strangely. I just feel a weird uneasiness when I take it.

I'm not saying anything about effecacy(sp?), but based on "how I feel" when on it, I'd rather take some caffeine and a couple primetine tabs.
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Interesting observation on the neurochemical effect. At least we know it's doing something if it's altering the ratio of neurochemicals to create anxiety.
 
Well, when I examine the label, the best I can come up with is that the Yohimbine could be interacting with the velvet bean extract. I tend to be sensitive to yohimbine. it jacks up my heart rate noticably. I tolerate other stims well so I don't think it could be anything else.

I will admit, that at the time I was taking it, I was under a tremendous amount of stress with trying to manage a house hold while building our business... :fool2:
 
Aeternitatis said:
How do you think the yohimbine and velvet bean are interacting?
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Well this is purely speculation on my part, but the velvet bean extract is standardized to contain %20 L- Dopa. L-Dopa's action is on the brain is it not? My conclusion is that the Y jacks my heart rate up- Not to mention BP- along with the rest of the stims, creating an increased rate of anything crossing the blood/brain barrier. :study:

Disclaimer: This is entierly one persons subjective opinion based on all available knowledge and experience aquired up to this point in time.:think:

I would be happy to hear thoughts and opinions on the above wether they are agrreeable or not. IMO, the jury is still out as far as effectiveness.

I will also let you guys know that I gave the rest of my bottle to a client of mine - 50yr old female - and I will be seeing her this morning. I'll be able to give you some new initial feedback from her.
 
I don't think the velvet bean has anything to do with it. I'll bet it's just that nasty yohimbe.
 
You could be right. I have tried and dropped other "fat burners" that had strong yohimbine doses. It wreaks havoc on my prostate too...:dump:
 
Wierd. I wonder if it has anything to do with peripheral vasodilation or increased blood pressure. I've never heard of yohimbine affecting the prostate, but I imagine it's possible.

Have you used both pure yohimbine HCL and standardized yohimbe herbal extract? If so, do they both affect your prostate the same way?
 
I am pretty sure that anything "beta 2" in structure can effect your prostate. I have gotten wacked by both Ephedrine and Nor ephedrine.

Yohimbe makes me uneasy, nervous and occasional gives heart palpations .It also made for awesome orgasms
it was a tough trade !
 
Yohimbine has MAOI activity and L-dopa's strong pro-dopamine activity is contraindicated with MAOI's. I take a prescription MAOI and found that the L-dopa in Powerfull gave me hypertension, high blood pressure, and a splitting headache -- classic monoamine toxicity reaction.

Although not everyone may experience Lean One's reaction, I wouldn't be surprised if more did. This was poorly designed, IMO.
 
anabolicrhino said:
I am pretty sure that anything "beta 2" in structure can effect your prostate. I have gotten wacked by both Ephedrine and Nor ephedrine.

Yohimbe makes me uneasy, nervous and occasional gives heart palpations .It also made for awesome orgasms
it was a tough trade !
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You put it very well. Your explanation hit the nail on the head as to why I dropped it and all other Y-combos.

I also forgot to mention the semeny(if that's a word)discharge after urination.

First time it happenned, I thought I had an STD:wtf:
 
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