Neoborn's Epistane FAQ - Q and A baby!

[LakeMountD]

I use Toremefine. 120/90/60/30 works best for me.

Me 2 .

 

[neoborn]

I use Toremefine. 120/90/60/30 works best for me.

What do you suggest to those that cannot get these research chems that you are using?

 

[thundergod]

What do you suggest to those that cannot get these research chems that you are using?

Great question Neo! I have never used a "research SERM" before. And I've done at least 5 cycles of superdrol without one. I do proper PCT of course, but without a SERM. I use the form/trione combo, test boosters(testofen, icariin, muira pauma), milk thistle, DHEA, Zinc, B-6, Niacin, mega doses of healthy efa's(12 mg. fish oil and 8 mg. of flax seed oil) everyday. This has always worked fine for me. I don't have gyno. This last PCT during January, I used resveratrol for the first time. 1 gram a day. This is a natty SERM is it not?:blink: Thanks NEO! :wave:

 

[The_Reverend]

What do you suggest to those that cannot get these research chems that you are using?

Look harder? :rofl: Honestly, I don't have an answer to that question because I don't have problems getting SERMS.

 

[LakeMountD]

Look harder? :rofl: Honestly, I don't have an answer to that question because I don't have problems getting SERMS.

He is in Canada. And let's just say that Canadian Customs agents have reallllly cracked down.

 

[The_Reverend]

He is in Canada. And let's just say that Canadian Customs agents have reallllly cracked down.

I guess the only other option is to become good friends with a doctor.

 

[neoborn]

I rest my case. I agree though after reading some more an AI on cycle is not needed necessarily but would be fine in PCT.

 

[freezito]

so are u saying neo that a ai is not needed during a pulse as well as a straight cycle or are you strictly talking a straight. im gathering as much info as possible and putting my cycle to gether and want to make sure i got it right

 

[nosnmiveins]

so are u saying neo that a ai is not needed during a pulse as well as a straight cycle or are you strictly talking a straight. im gathering as much info as possible and putting my cycle to gether and want to make sure i got it right

hes saying that theres no need to run an AI on cycle (for oral steroids), but they could be helpful in pct

 

[neoborn]

Hehehe you guys are throwing me through a loop here...ok

1. ED cycle no AI needed though you can run form if you so choose as it's a mild prohormone.

2. Pulse - you can pulse it on your off days. I'm not saying kill it with I high dose, just low dose pulse it.

 

[The_Reverend]

I rest my case. I agree though after reading some more an AI on cycle is not needed necessarily but would be fine in post cycle therapy.

Well then I guess we can agree to disagree, because I will never run an AI during PCT again.

 

[freezito]

So neoborn if u had to choose between a ai on off days or dhea, what would u choose

 

[neoborn]

So neoborn if u had to choose between a ai on off days or dhea, what would u choose

Well now that I have tried Dermacrine, Dhea all the way. I'm 35 by the way as well.

 

[snookl187]

bump

 

[borobulker]

this is great.

thanks Neo, thats why you make the big bucks from IBE im sure...

hehehe

 

[Cordell]

Great thread. Bump.

 

[sourcheese]

ttt for later

 

[nightfly71]

I'd never heard of Dermacrine before this thread. I'm 36, myself and began dosing 25 mg. per day of DHEA after my pulse.

It was on the advice of a guy on another forum that's 40some and been doing it for a couple yrs. He says he can definitely tell that it helps libido and keeping a youthful appearance.

 

[neoborn]

I'd never heard of Dermacrine before this thread. I'm 36, myself and began dosing 25 mg. per day of DHEA after my pulse.

It was on the advice of a guy on another forum that's 40some and been doing it for a couple yrs. He says he can definitely tell that it helps libido and keeping a youthful appearance.

I just recently tried this as well. Lovely product. My testicles are 16yrs old and the rest 35.

 

[nightfly71]

I just recently tried this as well. Lovely product. My testicles are 16yrs old and the rest 35.

Sign me up!!!

 

[thundergod]

I just recently tried this as well. Lovely product. My testicles are 16yrs old and the rest 35.

NEO--- You are a RIOT, my friend :lol: By the way, this is a great thread!

 

[RoidGracie]

If I have PCS and Advanced PCT after a standard 4 week EPI (or even H-Drol for that matter), should the Advanced PCT be run sometime after starting the PCS, or start them both at the same time. This will be the first time I'm using these two products together. Of course I'll be using Life Support while on and in PCT as well. Thoughts please?

 

[neoborn]

I would start them together for your PCT. I would maybe alternate the dosing so you are giving each to run its course, rather than gobbling all the pills at the same time

AD PCT:
As a dietary supplement, take 1 capsule 3 times daily, spread evenly throughout the day. Do not exceed 8 weeks of continuous use.

PCS:
Directions:
Take 2 capsules in the AM and another 2 capsules in the PM.

 

[RoidGracie]

Thanks NEO. I've used the PCS before and liked the feeling I got after a month of use. This is the first time I'm adding the Advanced PCT (6-bromo).

 

[dawaro]

Ramping AI with Post Cycle Support

How would you go about ramping the AI if you are using Post Cycle Support? As I understand the dosage protocol for PCS is 4ed. If I am using HyperdrolX2 do I still need to ramp it up or should I just dose it at 4ed also?
I am going to try PCS for this cycle along with HyperdolX2 and MassFX. I plan to follow the 4ed dosing for the PCS and MassFX but I am a little unclear on the HyperdrolX2. Any suggestions?
I also have some Torm from a previous cycle left, would it hurt to use it in the beginning? Maybe use what I have left and then move to the PCS?

 

[RoidGracie]

I have yet to see anyone recommend or think it's necessary to use anymore than the 2x2 ED for the PCS so I'm sticking by that. I'm not qualified to answer your Hyperdrol or Torm questions...good luck.

 

[maynehood171]

I just recently tried this as well. Lovely product. My testicles are 16yrs old and the rest 35.

:toofunny:

 

[dawaro]

I have yet to see anyone recommend or think it's necessary to use anymore than the 2x2 ED for the PCS so I'm sticking by that. I'm not qualified to answer your Hyperdrol or Torm questions...good luck.

2x2 ED is all that I will be using the PCS.

Looking through my stash I also found a bottle of Retain2 I can fit in there some where.

 

[neoborn]

How would you go about ramping the AI if you are using Post Cycle Support?

Neo: Ramping AI was in relation to using formestane really but you take a percentage of the recommended dose until after a while you are at manufacturers recommended dosages. IF they say four pills a day start or with one or er something. If too confusing just follow standard protocol

As I understand the dosage protocol for PCS is 4ed. If I am using HyperdrolX2 do I still need to ramp it up or should I just dose it at 4ed also?

Neo: Just follow standard dosages bro you'll be fine.


I am going to try PCS for this cycle along with HyperdolX2 and MassFX. I plan to follow the 4ed dosing for the PCS and MassFX but I am a little unclear on the HyperdrolX2. Any suggestions?

Neo: Yes go to the AX website and check the dosage chart on the page for that product.

I also have some Torm from a previous cycle left, would it hurt to use it in the beginning? Maybe use what I have left and then move to the PCS?

Neo: Sounds fine to me bro!

Hope this helps.

 

[Cordeen]

I must admit I am not familiar with quite a few of those products.

I would be hesitant to stack two methyls together. Yes it most likely won't kill you but it's your health we are talking about. I would if I was going to stack something do A) non methyl B) Synergistic with the main active.

After thinking about this stack personally I would highly recommend: Epistane with Dermacrine. I am 35yrs old but I love both these products. Libido is good and boys are hanging large n low with Dermacrine. You will still get the gains of Derma and Epi but resolve any minor shutdown issues.

Truly there are better people to ask about stacks as I am more of a standard protocol type person i.e. one methyl and support supps etc

I would have no problem stacking it with Drive as well but usually would save the drive for PCT. Sorry if this isn't a great answer. Bold is another thing people like stacking it with I believe. Try PM'ing Poopypants he is more of a stacker I think.

Will finish this post on my next break.

So Post Cycle Support, Oral DHEA and EPI would be a similar stack to Dermacrine and EPI, no?

Do you guys think the Quercetin and Piperine in PCS would enhance the delivery of oral DHEA if someone decided to run this stack?

 

[RoidGracie]

Do you guys think the Quercetin and Piperine in PCS would enhance the delivery of oral DHEA if someone decided to run this stack?

That souds like it could be a distinct possibility but I didn't know there was a bioavailability issue with orally ingested DHEA...someone else can answer that part.

 

[jonnie]

Dosing timing

Great thread Neo and lots of karma points for you.

I do have one question however, what is the theory behind dosing the different amounts pre and post w/o with the bigger dose pre and is there any reason why one couldn't split the dose into two even doses 12hrs appart?

:cheers:
Jonnie

 

[maynehood171]

Great thread Neo and lots of karma points for you.

I do have one question however, what is the theory behind dosing the different amounts pre and post w/o with the bigger dose pre and is there any reason why one couldn't split the dose into two even doses 12hrs appart?

:cheers:
Jonnie

Wow first post on the forum and giving points to Neo already :rant: haha...

 

[Lene28]

If I have gyno(small lumps and puffy nipps) should I use formetane while on a 4 week cycle of Epi and then again for a month after pct?

 

[neoborn]

If I have gyno(small lumps and puffy nipps) should I use formetane while on a 4 week cycle of Epi and then again for a month after pct?

I would recommend just getting your estro under control pre cycle then Epistane then do what you said for Post PCT with Form

 

[Lene28]

Thanks Neoborn!
What do you recommend I use to get my estro under control???

 

[neoborn]

Formestane any of the AI's from the Epistane FAQ

Check out NP http://www.nutraplanet.com/category/anti-estrogens/

 

[Lene28]

Neo, how bout this:
4 weeks of an AI and then start my 4 week cycle of Epistane.

 

[neoborn]

Neo, how bout this:
4 weeks of an AI and then start my 4 week cycle of Epistane.

Sounds fine to me as long as you don't crush your estrogen. Just control it no crush it :nono:

You can stop the AI on Epistane cycle as it has estrogenic controlling qualities itself.

 

[mastaclue00]

Neo, would this be okay to do after an epi cycle:

Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
Week 5: 4 Caps 6-OXO Extreme
Week 6: 3 Caps 6-OXO Extreme
Week 7: 2 Caps 6-OXO Extreme
Week 8: 1 Cap 6-OXO Extreme

 

[arizonanewbie]

After a 4 week epi (havoc) cycle I plan on PCS, Fenugreek, and Lean Xtreme 2 starting weeks in. I have enough nolva to do 20mg/day for 4 weeks. Is it worth running the nolva along side PCS or just save it for signs of trouble?

 

[SABAGOY]

Just finished the following cycle and now in PCT
10/20/30: HAVOC
• Post Cycle Support on Off Days (2caps AM, 2caps PM)
-Cycle Support (1 serving am 1 serving PM Everday)
• 100mg DHEA on Off Days

Week 2
30/30/30
• Post Cycle Support on Off Days (2caps AM, 2caps PM)
-Cycle Support (1 serving am 1 serving PM Everday)
• 100mg DHEA on Off Days

Week 3-6
40/40/40
• Post Cycle Support on Off Days (2caps AM, 2caps PM)
-Cycle Support (1 serving am 1 serving PM Everday)
• 100mg DHEA on Off Days

Post Cycle Therapy:
Toremifene: Days 1-4: 120mg. Day 5-Week 2 90mg. Week 3 60mg. Week 4 30mg.
Post Cycle Support: 2caps AM, 2caps PM
Cycle Support: 1serving AM and 1serving PM

Problem: On my 4th day of PCT and starting to get hit with some gyno...Puffy right nipple and a lump is starting to develop. Any suggestions? I started taking 200mg of Ibuprofen 3 times a day.

 

[neoborn]

Neo, would this be okay to do after an epi cycle:

Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
Week 5: 4 Caps 6-OXO Extreme
Week 6: 3 Caps 6-OXO Extreme
Week 7: 2 Caps 6-OXO Extreme
Week 8: 1 Cap 6-OXO Extreme

Looks good to me, I would add some kind of Fenugreek or test booster like PCS in there and you're all good.

 

[neoborn]

After a 4 week epi (havoc) cycle I plan on PCS, Fenugreek, and Lean Xtreme 2 starting weeks in. I have enough nolva to do 20mg/day for 4 weeks. Is it worth running the nolva along side PCS or just save it for signs of trouble?

I would take both because you could get a healthy libido boost from the PCS and other healthy benefits. You would also be ok with just doing the PCS I believe.

 

[neoborn]

You could use a good anti estrogen / AI to bring your estrogen down a little. Formestane, Letrozole, Anastrazole, 6-oxo etc

Just finished the following cycle and now in PCT
10/20/30: HAVOC
• Post Cycle Support on Off Days (2caps AM, 2caps PM)
-Cycle Support (1 serving am 1 serving PM Everday)
• 100mg DHEA on Off Days

Week 2
30/30/30
• Post Cycle Support on Off Days (2caps AM, 2caps PM)
-Cycle Support (1 serving am 1 serving PM Everday)
• 100mg DHEA on Off Days

Week 3-6
40/40/40
• Post Cycle Support on Off Days (2caps AM, 2caps PM)
-Cycle Support (1 serving am 1 serving PM Everday)
• 100mg DHEA on Off Days

Post Cycle Therapy:
Toremifene: Days 1-4: 120mg. Day 5-Week 2 90mg. Week 3 60mg. Week 4 30mg.
Post Cycle Support: 2caps AM, 2caps PM
Cycle Support: 1serving AM and 1serving PM

Problem: On my 4th day of PCT and starting to get hit with some gyno...Puffy right nipple and a lump is starting to develop. Any suggestions? I started taking 200mg of Ibuprofen 3 times a day.

 

[tilerbreaker]

Although I don't recommend an AI with Epistane during cycle, it can't hurt post cycle. Let me start with the on cycle part though. Epistane does act as a SERM. Since it does act as a SERM, in many cases estrogen is actually higher throughout the bloodstream believe it or not. You are selectively blocking only certain receptors. This shouldn't be an issue while using Epistane though as users don't ever report heavy bloat, nor would I suspect any.

As for the post cycle though, you make a point that you don't have any T to aromatize and I agree with that. However, your body is attempting to change that and test levels are going to be coming up quickly. To further maintain equilibrium your body is going to convert some of this test to estrogen via aromatase enzyme and this is normally what people are out to stop. To prevent the rebound effect you can just pyramid the doses. Start out low, ramp up, then come back down. Steroidal AI's may or may not help you recover quicker but they can help with effects like libido. 6-bromo tends to be better than ATD post cycle for libido and I feel ATD is a little better used on cycle than 6-bromo.

This seems like a good place to try to get this answered...especially with regard to LakeMountD's quote above.

What's the general consensus on how much of an anti-E is an epithio product (havoc, epistane, etc.)

I ask b/c I am wondering about the following:

If epithios are supposed to act (partially) as estrogen receptor antagonists, when you come off cycle, you should now be in a state where you have low (endogenous) T, therefore low E, but you are freeing up ERs. So for this specific compound (epi), if you wanted to do an OTC PCT, might it be better to actually taper down the epi for a couple of weeks (as you might a bona fide SERM) while you taper up an AI (6-oxo or ATD or whatever), stay on that for several weeks, and then taper that down (though I've heard you can go cold turkey on these).

This would only make sense if epi has pretty good SERM like properties and would probably not be so good if it doesn't. What do some of you experienced guys think of that protocol?

 

[beantownkid1]

Neoborn thanks for all the info and advice. To be absolutely positive about the ''on'' cycle support and pct i was wondering if the two products you recommended would be sufficient by themselves. Would taking the cycle support from anabolic innovations during the cycle and post cycle support from anabolic innovations as well be the only support supplements I need. Thanks

 

[neoborn]

It 'should' be sufficient but what if it's not? You are better off getting a quality AI / SERM and enjoying no man boobage.

 

[luclyluciano]

Neoborn thanks for all the info and advice. To be absolutely positive about the ''on'' cycle support and pct i was wondering if the two products you recommended would be sufficient by themselves. Would taking the cycle support from anabolic innovations during the cycle and post cycle support from anabolic innovations as well be the only support supplements I need. Thanks

Wasn't enough for me. Epi suppressed me a little so a friend gave me 6-oxo and my libido went thru the roof in 3 days. One of the few products that over delivers.

Lucky

 

[beantownkid1]

Thanks guys for the advice...Im gonna be running a 4 week cycle along the lines of a 20/20/30/30(maybe 40 first cycle of PH). I have a great outlook on my cycle support thanks to you neoborn. I wanted to lay out my ''On'' cycle and PCT jus to get a little last minute critique and hopefully get a better understanding on where and how much AI/ 1 Fast400 Formestane I should be taking:
On cycle:
Liver Longer
flaxseed oil
hawthorne berry
cycle support
anti cortisol-lean extreme

PCT:
Post Cycle support
cissus
novadex xt
flaxseed oil
hawthorne berry