For a AI, i think it was dr.d that was recommending 6-bromo, i think transdermal formastane will work just a well if not better, i used e-form for the off days, you could also buy bulk formastane and penatrate from NP for the same price and get a few more grams out of your bottle, it ends up being worth it if you want to mix it your self. Neoborn has a faq (it's in the Similar Threads at the bottom of this thread for me) about using TD formastane search for it. For the natty test booster, you could run somthing that free's SHBG like activate, or get some bulk nettle root, i used BlueUp becuase i had a bottle laying around it i got a few for $15 when they were on sale, i know his it has trib, but it also had Avena Sativa, which supposedly binds to SHBG. There's a lot of talk about drive, you might to try running that as your test booster and stack it with nettle root.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:Cool, appreciate it drksun. Oh and also a cortisol antagonist as well. Any good ones that you have encountered. Did a search but you know how supplement labels all claim they are the best
:thumbsup::thumbsup:Cool, appreciate it drksun. Oh and also a cortisol antagonist as well. Any good ones that you have encountered. Did a search but you know how supplement labels all claim they are the best
For anti-cort i ran 25mg dhea during the pulse phase, and i ran 7-keto dhea 100mg twice a day for pct, x-lean is supposed to be good too and its fairly cheep.
For anti-cort i ran 25mg dhea during the pulse phase, and i ran 7-keto dhea 100mg twice a day for post cycle therapy, x-lean is supposed to be good too and its fairly cheep.
No SERM, i basically ran what i ran on off days as my pct, anti-cort(7-keto), e-form tapering down, and a nat. nest booster. It's always good to keep a SERM on hand in case gyno symptoms pop up you can zap it. I would always apply e-form to my chest, and a few hours later it would feel weird, i was freaking out because i though it was gyno, but i guess it was just the formastane in my skin, i started applying to my shoulders, and behind my legs, and no more tingling in my chest.
No SERM, i basically ran what i ran on off days as my post cycle therapy, anti-cort(7-keto), e-form tapering down, and a nat. nest booster. It's always good to keep a SERM on hand in case gyno symptoms pop up you can zap it. I would always apply e-form to my chest, and a few hours later it would feel weird, i was freaking out because i though it was gyno, but i guess it was just the formastane in my skin, i started applying to my shoulders, and behind my legs, and no more tingling in my chest.
Sweet, gotta love that! J/K :toofunny:Thanks for the info. I'm just trying to have a good plan while doing EPI to make sure I have less sides if any. I'll probably post what I'm going to take during the pulse just to get feedback and maybe some corrections on it.
What's the least amount of Epi anyone's ever done or heard of and seen results, whether it be a pulse or straight through cycle?
I was getting results from as little as 10mg/day in a prior cycle. If I had my time back I would not have increased the dosage to 30mg so early in the cycle. Next time (soon) I will stay at 10mg/day, so i am guessing shutdown will be minimal.
At 10mg I felt the LH increases, increased mood and testicular fullness in no time.
What's the least amount of Epi anyone's ever done or heard of and seen results, whether it be a pulse or straight through cycle?
I was getting results from as little as 10mg/day in a prior cycle. If I had my time back I would not have increased the dosage to 30mg so early in the cycle. Next time (soon) I will stay at 10mg/day, so i am guessing shutdown will be minimal.
At 10mg I felt the LH increases, increased mood and testicular fullness in no time.
You took 10mg the whole cycle, how much weight did you gain? If you saw good gains with only 10mg you might want to try 20mg next time unless you were happy with the results you got from 10mg.
Quick question, how would people lose hair from Epistane? Is there DMT in it or is it highly androgenic? I saw a Epi clone and it said that it will not cause hair loss. If its a clone I would think that Epi wouldnt cause hair loss too but it seems to do that with some users.
You took 10mg the whole cycle, how much weight did you gain? If you saw good gains with only 10mg you might want to try 20mg next time unless you were happy with the results you got from 10mg.
Quick question, how would people lose hair from Epistane? Is there DMT in it or is it highly androgenic? I saw a Epi clone and it said that it will not cause hair loss. If its a clone I would think that Epi wouldnt cause hair loss too but it seems to do that with some users.
After a week I stepped it up to 20 and then 30, for 4 weeks total. I gained maye 6-8lbs and the product was Havoc. This time I think it will be EST's Methyl-E.
I am not looking for a ton of mass anyhow...just a few lean lbs with some fat loss. So I may pulse 10/20mgs for 6-8 weeks or simply do a straight 4 week with 10mg ED but either way I will be adding POST Cycle Support during and after the cycle.
I like to help and hope you find this information useful. Please respect the thread and keep it relative to the product that is listed in the thread title, thank you :thumbsup:
From what I have read on these boards and from other people 20mg would most likely fit that category. I originally heard alot of feedback on 40mg ED cycle for four weeks that produced the desired results.
I would try 20mg and see how it goes. Don't forget a quality AI. This is a recommendation for Gyno reduction. For general estrogen control I would recommend Formestane mmmmmmm <3
I'll update it fo sho. The ED cycle uses a spaced dosing protocol. The times at which you dose this depends on dose. I would stick to a pre / post dose while on doses low around 20mg. As you get higher you can evenly space these throughout the day.
I 'guess' the idea is to get the blood levels stable for when the body kicks into high gear for anabolism.
Either space it out or pre and post it I think you'll be fine either way.
I would try 20mg and see how it goes. Don't forget a quality AI. This is a recommendation for Gyno reduction. For general estrogen control I would recommend Formestane mmmmmmm <3
Exactly. Most people think that because Epistane has AI type effects that they don't need estrogen control. If you don't like boobs, find yourself a good quality AI for on, pct and post pct.
Basically in an overview, an AI inhibits test converting to estrogen, when this happens your body stops producing test which is also called the negative feedback loop. Taking an AI will raise test by basically inhibiting that negative feedback loop. A good quality AI will greatly inhibit the conversion thus keeping and elevating test in the end (again as body doesn't cease production and still keeping the test)...so like regular post cycle therapy using an AI, you slowly decrease dosage over time to control/balance the ratio between test/est...
that's how I understand it using a AI for cycle and then post cycle as I did this for my first cycle ever...
Neoborn--- My question lies around this same enquiry above. What is good to stack with epi. But I was thinking doing a straight run of ALRI Methoxy trn and just pulse the epi on workout days only. Maybe pre-workout at 20 mg. Not enough? Should I do 30 or more? I'm 43 years old with 20 years of lifting behind me and numerous cycles of superdrol, phera-plex, halodrol, and hemadrol in the past 3 years. I've never tried the pulsing method on anything yet. So, does a straight run of trn (4 to 8 mg) with 20 or 30 mg. epi pulsed on workout days seem like a good idea to you? Thanks Neo!! Oh yeah, I'm 6'3" and weigh 270 pounds.
I'm assuming, that'd be 6-7 weeks on a daily dosed methyl cycle. Even if that's involving two diff compounds not stacked, it still sounds like an awfully long time to be subjecting your liver to daily methyl dosing. Not to mention, your lipids would also be taking a pretty good beating from that, as well. Maybe I'm misreading what you're thinking of doing, though.
I'm assuming, that'd be 6-7 weeks on a daily dosed methyl cycle. Even if that's involving two diff compounds not stacked, it still sounds like an awfully long time to be subjecting your liver to daily methyl dosing. Not to mention, your lipids would also be taking a pretty good beating from that, as well. Maybe I'm misreading what you're thinking of doing, though.
Dude--- I think you not only COULD do it, but SHOULD do it!:thumbsup: 6 weeks is NOT that long really. People are doing much more harm to their liver through drinking and taking OTC pain relievers like tylenol and stuff like that. Your liver is VERY resilient and will actually regenerate and reverse the harm done to it over time. That's part of what PCT is all about.:type: I think there's a lot of over-hyping liver damage when on things like superdrol. I've never had any problems with superdrol other than it being :smite: strong. Take your livercare and milk thistle AFTER your cycle and you'll be fine!:thumbsup:
Oh yeah, and about your blood lipids, you should be taking about 20 grams of healthy efa's per day anyway! 12 grams of fish oil and 8 grams of flax seed oil! This will help the lipids! Continue your cycle and enjoy!:bb3:
Exactly. Most people think that because Epistane has AI type effects that they don't need estrogen control. If you don't like boobs, find yourself a good quality AI for on, post cycle therapy and post post cycle therapy.
Neoborn--- My question lies around this same enquiry above. What is good to stack with epi. But I was thinking doing a straight run of ALRI Methoxy trn and just pulse the epi on workout days only. Maybe pre-workout at 20 mg. Not enough? Should I do 30 or more? I'm 43 years old with 20 years of lifting behind me and numerous cycles of superdrol, phera-plex, halodrol, and hemadrol in the past 3 years. I've never tried the pulsing method on anything yet. So, does a straight run of trn (4 to 8 mg) with 20 or 30 mg. epi pulsed on workout days seem like a good idea to you? Thanks Neo!! Oh yeah, I'm 6'3" and weigh 270 pounds.
I must admit I am not familiar with quite a few of those products.
I would be hesitant to stack two methyls together. Yes it most likely won't kill you but it's your health we are talking about. I would if I was going to stack something do A) non methyl B) Synergistic with the main active.
After thinking about this stack personally I would highly recommend: Epistane with Dermacrine. I am 35yrs old but I love both these products. Libido is good and boys are hanging large n low with Dermacrine. You will still get the gains of Derma and Epi but resolve any minor shutdown issues.
Truly there are better people to ask about stacks as I am more of a standard protocol type person i.e. one methyl and support supps etc
I would have no problem stacking it with Drive as well but usually would save the drive for PCT. Sorry if this isn't a great answer. Bold is another thing people like stacking it with I believe. Try PM'ing Poopypants he is more of a stacker I think.
Rebound XT
What is it?
Rebound XT is an anti-aromatase/anti-estrogen that can be used on cycle, during post cycle therapy (PCT) or off cycle to control estrogen and raise testosterone naturally.
I'm assuming, that'd be 6-7 weeks on a daily dosed methyl cycle. Even if that's involving two diff compounds not stacked, it still sounds like an awfully long time to be subjecting your liver to daily methyl dosing. Not to mention, your lipids would also be taking a pretty good beating from that, as well. Maybe I'm misreading what you're thinking of doing, though.
I would highly not recommend going from one methyl straight into another. Lipids, BP, Liver issues etc could become an issue.:drunk:
With that said you could do this and take it step by step monitoring any issues that may arise. Be aware and keep your health as your no:1 goal
This is why it's important to have your cycle layed out and down pat. Just run your cycle and then post cycle therapy. Then after that if you want to do your Epistane run, do it
Well, I'm speaking from experience so I'm not talking out of my ass or regurgitating what other people on here say. What exactly is the point of using an AI during cycle if the compound you're taking doesn't aromatize? Furthermore, in PCT when you don't have any T to aromatize, what exactly is the AI going to do for you? Its best saved for after you finish a SERM only PCT. Many times when you use an AI in PCT, you're further suppressing your E which can cause a wicked rebound and gyno. Again, this HAS happened to me twice. Once with Epistane and once with Superdrol. When using a SERM only, my recovery has been flawless. (no gyno, kept gains)
Exactly. Most people think that because Epistane has AI type effects that they don't need estrogen control. If you don't like boobs, find yourself a good quality AI for on, post cycle therapy and post post cycle therapy.
:::
Dude--- I think you not only COULD do it, but SHOULD do it!:thumbsup: 6 weeks is NOT that long really. Take your livercare and milk thistle AFTER your cycle and you'll be fine!:thumbsup:
So you're saying 4 weeks Mdrol followed by epi/levi for 3 weeks or so followed by levi/restore sounds OK to you? Just clarifying to make sure I'm reading right.
That's one for, one against....anyone else?
BTW...is Epi as carb dependant as Mdrol? I'm thinking about the anabolic diet during the cut phase since I respond well to it.
thanks neoborn, the more i read the more i learn. i want to have everything planned out to a t so i get it right. so i want the ai on off days during the pulse cycle and during post cycle therapy correct? Or is the ai during post cycle therapy only for the straight cycle?
Well, I'm speaking from experience so I'm not talking out of my ass or regurgitating what other people on here say. What exactly is the point of using an AI during cycle if the compound you're taking doesn't aromatize? Furthermore, in post cycle therapy when you don't have any T to aromatize, what exactly is the AI going to do for you? Its best saved for after you finish a SERM only PCT. Many times when you use an AI in PCT, you're further suppressing your E which can cause a wicked rebound and gyno. Again, this HAS happened to me twice. Once with Epistane and once with Superdrol. When using a SERM only, my recovery has been flawless. (no gyno, kept gains)
Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said: Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.
1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc
Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm
You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem
I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better
5. Test Booster - Good reviews or have used the following: Sustain Alpha(Recommended), Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).
All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.
With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.
Things To Note
1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!
2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT
Well, I'm speaking from experience so I'm not talking out of my ass or regurgitating what other people on here say. What exactly is the point of using an AI during cycle if the compound you're taking doesn't aromatize? Furthermore, in post cycle therapy when you don't have any T to aromatize, what exactly is the AI going to do for you? Its best saved for after you finish a SERM only PCT. Many times when you use an AI in PCT, you're further suppressing your E which can cause a wicked rebound and gyno. Again, this HAS happened to me twice. Once with Epistane and once with Superdrol. When using a SERM only, my recovery has been flawless. (no gyno, kept gains)
Well, I'm speaking from experience so I'm not talking out of my ass or regurgitating what other people on here say. What exactly is the point of using an AI during cycle if the compound you're taking doesn't aromatize? Furthermore, in post cycle therapy when you don't have any T to aromatize, what exactly is the AI going to do for you? Its best saved for after you finish a SERM only PCT. Many times when you use an AI in PCT, you're further suppressing your E which can cause a wicked rebound and gyno. Again, this HAS happened to me twice. Once with Epistane and once with Superdrol. When using a SERM only, my recovery has been flawless. (no gyno, kept gains)
Although I don't recommend an AI with Epistane during cycle, it can't hurt post cycle. Let me start with the on cycle part though. Epistane does act as a SERM. Since it does act as a SERM, in many cases estrogen is actually higher throughout the bloodstream believe it or not. You are selectively blocking only certain receptors. This shouldn't be an issue while using Epistane though as users don't ever report heavy bloat, nor would I suspect any.
As for the post cycle though, you make a point that you don't have any T to aromatize and I agree with that. However, your body is attempting to change that and test levels are going to be coming up quickly. To further maintain equilibrium your body is going to convert some of this test to estrogen via aromatase enzyme and this is normally what people are out to stop. To prevent the rebound effect you can just pyramid the doses. Start out low, ramp up, then come back down. Steroidal AI's may or may not help you recover quicker but they can help with effects like libido. 6-bromo tends to be better than ATD post cycle for libido and I feel ATD is a little better used on cycle than 6-bromo.
Although I don't recommend an AI with Epistane during cycle, it can't hurt post cycle. Let me start with the on cycle part though. Epistane does act as a SERM. Since it does act as a SERM, in many cases estrogen is actually higher throughout the bloodstream believe it or not. You are selectively blocking only certain receptors. This shouldn't be an issue while using Epistane though as users don't ever report heavy bloat, nor would I suspect any.
As for the post cycle though, you make a point that you don't have any T to aromatize and I agree with that. However, your body is attempting to change that and test levels are going to be coming up quickly. To further maintain equilibrium your body is going to convert some of this test to estrogen via aromatase enzyme and this is normally what people are out to stop. To prevent the rebound effect you can just pyramid the doses. Start out low, ramp up, then come back down. Steroidal AI's may or may not help you recover quicker but they can help with effects like libido. 6-bromo tends to be better than ATD post cycle for libido and I feel ATD is a little better used on cycle than 6-bromo.
You make a good argument but I still prefer using the AI after I finish my PCT. This insures me that I will not have any issues with estrogen rebound. So far my method has worked very well for me, too.
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I think you'll be fine either way.
