Need advice on my 1st PH Cycle

[Takman001]

Hi this is going to be another newbie 1st time PH cycle, I been reading up a fair bit here and would just like some clarification by someone with experience.
Any Input would be much appreciated!!

Quick background, I'm turning 24 soon, BodyFat~25% 78.5kg and 5ft9.5inch
I'm leaning towards Epistane(Havoc), Hdrol, Pmag as from reviews there seems to be little gains seen from Cynostane & Androtest (please correct me if I'm wrong)

-HAVOC/EPI
Heard mixed reviews on small gains seen
but very good for a cut and dry gains
And takes awhile to notice results so not sure about a 4week beginner cycle

-PMAG
Larger gains & Quicker results seen
However as a wet PH, would I gain more Fat?? due to the large water retention and lose more gains after the cycle from water loss??

-HDROL
Heard its a sorta mix between Epi and PMag
Good on cut
But takes awhile to notice results



---GOAL---
My goal is strength and size witch more emphasis on size and size that will stick after PCT
I'm not looking to cut, but then again with my high 20-25% BodyFat, a Recomp/Transform is'nt a bad idea

???
What PH would wou recomend from the three? and is my information correct?
What dosage would you recomend and cycle length compared to the regular dose on 4weeks?


--ON CYCLE--
NUTRITION: High calorie, High protein (2x bodyweight in lb)
TRAINING: 4day split High volume
Chest & Bi
Back & Calves & Abs
Carido or Muay Thai
Legs & Abs
Shoulder tris Traps
REP RANGE: 8-12 main compound lifts, 12-18 additionals exericies

---
Pre cycle: Hawthorne berry & milk thistle
On cycle: Cycle assist/Organ shield, Joint support, Fish oil, Taurine
---

--PCT--
Erase Pro
Lean Xtreme
Post cycle matrix
Other natural test booster
creatine
preworkout

NO SERM: Not sure where to get Nolva/Clomid
NUTRITION: Calories just above maintenance, normal protein
TRAINING: 3day split Strength
Chest,Back & Abs
Legs
Shoulders & Arms
REP RANGE: 4-6 compounds, 6-8 additionals


---???---
What PH would wou recomend from the three? and is my information correct?
What dosage would you recomend and cycle length compared to the regular dose on 4weeks?
As some have said that it takes a while to notice results in a 4week cycle, should I bump the the recomended dosage slightly or make it a 5week?
During the cycle should I take complete rest days? as I hear the recovery is hugely increased should I just have carido days off gym?
During the cyle do I progress weight keeping the same high rep-range, or maintain the same weight and increase volume by rep?set?

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Hi this is going to be another newbie 1st time PH cycle, I been reading up a fair bit here and would just like some clarification by someone with experience. Any Input would be much appreciated!! Quick background, I'm turning 24 soon, BodyFat~25% 78.5kg and 5ft9.5inch I'm leaning towards Epistane(Havoc), Hdrol, Pmag as from reviews there seems to be little gains seen from Cynostane & Androtest (please correct me if I'm wrong) -HAVOC/EPI Heard mixed reviews on small gains seen but very good for a cut and dry gains And takes awhile to notice results so not sure about a 4week beginner cycle -PMAG Larger gains & Quicker results seen However as a wet PH, would I gain more Fat?? due to the large water retention and lose more gains after the cycle from water loss?? -HDROL Heard its a sorta mix between Epi and PMag Good on cut But takes awhile to notice results ---GOAL--- My goal is strength and size witch more emphasis on size and size that will stick after PCT I'm not looking to cut, but then again with my high 20-25% BodyFat, a Recomp/Transform is'nt a bad idea ??? What PH would wou recomend from the three? and is my information correct? What dosage would you recomend and cycle length compared to the regular dose on 4weeks? --ON CYCLE-- NUTRITION: High calorie, High protein (2x bodyweight in lb) TRAINING: 4day split High volume Chest & Bi Back & Calves & Abs Carido or Muay Thai Legs & Abs Shoulder tris Traps REP RANGE: 8-12 main compound lifts, 12-18 additionals exericies --- Pre cycle: Hawthorne berry & milk thistle On cycle: Cycle assist/Organ shield, Joint support, Fish oil, Taurine --- --PCT-- Erase Pro Lean Xtreme Post cycle matrix Other natural test booster creatine preworkout NO SERM: Not sure where to get Nolva/Clomid NUTRITION: Calories just above maintenance, normal protein TRAINING: 3day split Strength Chest,Back & Abs Legs Shoulders & Arms REP RANGE: 4-6 compounds, 6-8 additionals ---???--- What PH would wou recomend from the three? and is my information correct? What dosage would you recomend and cycle length compared to the regular dose on 4weeks? As some have said that it takes a while to notice results in a 4week cycle, should I bump the the recomended dosage slightly or make it a 5week? During the cycle should I take complete rest days? as I hear the recovery is hugely increased should I just have carido days off gym? During the cyle do I progress weight keeping the same high rep-range, or maintain the same weight and increase volume by rep?set?

Oh boyyyyyyyyy.. Your bf% is really high so chance of sides can be greater, so I'd probably not recommended cycling, that and you are not as insulin sensitive. How long have you been training? You need to clean up your diet and not worry about bulking.

 

[Driven2lift]

http://www.orbitnutrition.com/cart/index.php?dispatch=product_features.view&variant_id=631

Solid, affordable options for Halo and Epi there, Olympus Labs also has a great Epi available

Those are the 2 I typically suggest for a first cycle, and there are a lot of fans for each. Some people prefer one over the other but gains are pretty similar in general.

You will want to make it a 6-week run, meaning 2 bottles or one if you go with OL Epistane
They take time to kick in, it is pretty standard to run these 6 weeks.

The layout looks decent, glad you have done lots of your own research. I would lean to Clomid but either SERM will do.

As for weight progression you will be able to judge it for yourself on cycle, in weeks 2-3 things will all seem lighter lol so retest your 1RM and adjust accordingly

 

[Driven2lift]

And the post above mine made a very good point your BF% is high, definitely keep to one compound and monitor your BP on cycle.

You are also on the young side but technically of age. I would advise everyone to hold off before a cycle but looking at the research you have done I am under the assumption you plan to regardless

 

[Abe Lincoln]

^I was speaking of higher chance of estrogen related problems like gyno, but bp should be monitored as well, especially on dry compounds. I'd recommend halodrol over epistane as there are some non responders to epistane.

Halodrol: 50/75/75/75/75/75
Or
Epistane: 30/30/40/40/40/40


Serm;
Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Or
Nolva/ 20/20/10/10

Also, be careful of how much weight you put on the bar. On cycle I'd personally try to go for higher volume than increase in weight, of course you should add weight but just be wary as your muscles might be stronger, but the connective tissue and tendons are not, so you could be setting yourself up for injury, like a torn pec or pulling a muscle. I was just speaking to a guy on here that had this issue.

 

[Takman001]

Hi.
I used an online BMI calculator for my bodyfat %. But seen bf% pic comparison and I definitely don't look 25% more 20% but will do a propper test first.

I wasn't planning to stack, they were comparisons

Is 6weeks too long for a beginner 23 yr old like me?

Also SERM wise, I'm from the UK and haven't found where I could get Nolva or Clomid

Could I run Epi or Halo without a SERM?

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Hi. I used an online BMI calculator for my bodyfat %. But seen bf% pic comparison and I definitely don't look 25% more 20% but will do a propper test first. I wasn't planning to stack, they were comparisons Is 6weeks too long for a beginner 23 yr old like me? Also SERM wise, I'm from the UK and haven't found where I could get Nolva or Clomid Could I run Epi or Halo without a SERM? Thanks for the input guys!

20% is still pretty high. The lower the bf% the better the gains will be if diet is right and less chance for sides. Most people bulk at like 7-14%bf. 6 weeks would be the optimal amount of time, 5 is the minimum for these two compounds. Some compounds you can run longer or shorter than these two. Try some of the board sponsors here, pretty sure some of them have serms. Generally people will say hell no you can't run epi or halo without a serm, but some people skip the serm step, it can be very difficult to hold onto gains if you do this and recovery will take longer, overall not a good idea if you are not experienced.

 

[Takman001]

I'll probably aim at a recomp/transform.
Reduce bodyfat and make some lean gains-sounds unlikely but have read very possible with PHs.
-For this would Epi or Halo be a better choice??
-And also how should calories be compared to maintenance?

The general consensus is that Nolva is stronger/quicker and also handy to have during cycle if gyno starts.
Could you tell me best suited and why?, or does it not matter which one for these slightly milder PHs.

 

[pyrobatt]

Hi this is going to be another newbie 1st time PH cycle, I been reading up a fair bit here and would just like some clarification by someone with experience.
Any Input would be much appreciated!!

Quick background, I'm turning 24 soon, BodyFat~25% 78.5kg and 5ft9.5inch
I'm leaning towards Epistane(Havoc), Hdrol, Pmag as from reviews there seems to be little gains seen from Cynostane & Androtest (please correct me if I'm wrong)

-HAVOC/EPI
Heard mixed reviews on small gains seen
but very good for a cut and dry gains
And takes awhile to notice results so not sure about a 4week beginner cycle

-PMAG
Larger gains & Quicker results seen
However as a wet PH, would I gain more Fat?? due to the large water retention and lose more gains after the cycle from water loss??

-HDROL
Heard its a sorta mix between Epi and PMag
Good on cut
But takes awhile to notice results

---GOAL---
My goal is strength and size witch more emphasis on size and size that will stick after PCT
I'm not looking to cut, but then again with my high 20-25% BodyFat, a Recomp/Transform is'nt a bad idea

???
What PH would wou recomend from the three? and is my information correct?
What dosage would you recomend and cycle length compared to the regular dose on 4weeks?

--ON CYCLE--
NUTRITION: High calorie, High protein (2x bodyweight in lb)
TRAINING: 4day split High volume
Chest & Bi
Back & Calves & Abs
Carido or Muay Thai
Legs & Abs
Shoulder tris Traps
REP RANGE: 8-12 main compound lifts, 12-18 additionals exericies

---
Pre cycle: Hawthorne berry & milk thistle
On cycle: Cycle assist/Organ shield, Joint support, Fish oil, Taurine
---

--PCT--
Erase Pro
Lean Xtreme
Post cycle matrix
Other natural test booster
creatine
preworkout

NO SERM: Not sure where to get Nolva/Clomid
NUTRITION: Calories just above maintenance, normal protein
TRAINING: 3day split Strength
Chest,Back & Abs
Legs
Shoulders & Arms
REP RANGE: 4-6 compounds, 6-8 additionals

---???---
What PH would wou recomend from the three? and is my information correct?
What dosage would you recomend and cycle length compared to the regular dose on 4weeks?
As some have said that it takes a while to notice results in a 4week cycle, should I bump the the recomended dosage slightly or make it a 5week?
During the cycle should I take complete rest days? as I hear the recovery is hugely increased should I just have carido days off gym?
During the cyle do I progress weight keeping the same high rep-range, or maintain the same weight and increase volume by rep?set?

It seems like you need to cut naturally before jumping on phs. To be completely honest your wasting money. Get to under 18 % then get on something.

 

[entropy138]

And the post above mine made a very good point your BF% is high, definitely keep to one compound and monitor your BP on cycle.

You are also on the young side but technically of age. I would advise everyone to hold off before a cycle but looking at the research you have done I am under the assumption you plan to regardless

I don't see that he has done much research beyond maybe reading the sides on the prohormonedb and picking 3 options. If he had done even a moderate amount of research he would know:

Where to find a SERM in the UK
The increased likelihood of estrogen related sides cycling at his bodyfat.
The kind of gains he can expect trying to bulk on these kind of compounds at his bf range
That he is reduced on insulin sensitivity
That he would benefit much more by cutting down to a reasonable bodyfat level
That he is going to look like frogtec.jpg when he is done cycling at a caloric surplus at 25% bf
That 4 week cycles of prohormones that take 2-3 weeks to kick in are going to be horribly ineffective.

Honestly he probably needs to do another 100 hours of reading before even considering it. And likely if he put another 100 hours of gym time in with a solid cutting diet he would be in a much better place to start thinking about a cycle.

 

[Takman001]

Thanks for your advice, clearly I have more work to do before considering a a good PH cycle.

The last thing I need is a higher risk in estrogren related sides.

I'm around 20% bodyfat, I'll do a slow cut to atleast 18% (or less), I've always had problems with cutting and losing muscle size & strength so I'll take a gradual approach. Then I'll start a 5-6week cycle Recomp/transform with Hdrol or Epistane