Need advice from an experienced member of this forum!

lamenames

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Sorry I've been posting alot, but I need some advice..
I have a 2 bottles of sust 250 that I was going to run for 12 weeks 500 mg a week...
I have nolva and clomid for PCT, but I do not have HCG and i'm scared that I might need that...
Let me back up a little bit, I have already ran one PH (Super DMZ 2.0) and everything went fine.
But since I dont have HCG I was wondering if I should just buy M-STEN and run that with the proper on cycle protection ECT
What do you guys think? Any Advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks! - Lame
 
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Had a quick flick at your other posts; are you still planning on running test E, andropen (not heard of it) and Sus 250?

Basic questions; age, how long training, goal, current stats, cycle experience etc (someone is going to ask for them so may as well get it out of the way)?

How long do you plan to cycle for too?
 

lamenames

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I'm 26 I've been training hard for about 5 years now.. I'm 6'2 200 8% bf, and I've run Super DMZ 2.0 for my only cycle. No I realized after reading more that, that cycle test E, andropen and Sus 250 was pretty retarded. And I plan to cycle Sust 250 for 12 weeks at 500 mg a week, but I'm not sure if I should just run an oral since I don't have HCG. Your thoughts?
 
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I'm 26 I've been training hard for about 5 years now.. I'm 6'2 200 8% bf, and I've run Super DMZ 2.0 for my only cycle. No I realized after reading more that, that cycle test E, andropen and Sus 250 was pretty retarded. And I plan to cycle Sust 250 for 12 weeks at 500 mg a week, but I'm not sure if I should just run an oral since I don't have HCG. Your thoughts?
To be honest, even when I've run oral only AAS cycles I've had shrinkage and had to use HCG a few weeks in. But, that was me, and a lot of people run PH's without it just fine.

Personally, if you can get it, and can handle the pinning frequency, I would run test prop for 12 weeks and do something like 75mg ED or 150mg EOD if your target is 500mg per week (this will take you slightly over but is easiest to measure to - 1.5ml prop 100 = 150mg). Your levels peak earlier and I reckon it's better at the end of a cycle as it clears your body quicker than a longer ester. Others run E and Cyp without issue though.

I'm running prop at 200mg EOD at the moment, with 300IU of HCG Monday morning and again Thursday night. Running it for 14 weeks but that's just down to how I planned my cycle out, 12 weeks is fine.

I have enough Aromasin to do 10mg ED all through cycle and PCT, but not using yet it because there are no signs of gyno related sides.

I have PCT of clomid 75/50/50/25 and nolva 40/20/20/20 lined up (ignoring support OTC supps).

Plenty of people run cycles without HCG and have no issues, so it's really your call. I wouldn't, but that's personal preference and I wouldn't necessarily advise either way.

In answer to your question about shutdown though, adding any external source of hormones is going to play with your own balance, so you need to be prepared for that. If you want to avoid any shutdown and hormonal sides, then you may want to consider steering clear of AAS/PH's altogether.

Hope this has helped a little; there are more experienced members than me on here so if anything is here they don't agree with they'll pipe up. Any more questions, feel free to ask.
 

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Sorry I've been posting alot, but I need some advice.. I have a 2 bottles of sust 250 that I was going to run for 12 weeks 500 mg a week... I have nolva and clomid for PCT, but I do not have HCG and i'm scared that I might need that... Let me back up a little bit, I have already ran one PH (Super DMZ 2.0) and everything went fine. But since I dont have HCG I was wondering if I should just buy M-STEN and run that with the proper on cycle protection ECT What do you guys think? Any Advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! - Lame
Im running my first injectable cycle in a couple weeks and based on the info I gathered, Test E at 250-300 mgs per week is your best option. Every veteran says test is best when it comes to your first cycle, many recommend an oral kick starter. The oral can be anything from Dbol, SDMZ, or another DS. From what I've researched, you might want to save the sus 250 for your next cycle.
 
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Sus is test. But yes, I'd still run run prop instead of E or Sus, and if it's your first cycle don't do a kicker. Prop will come in quickly enough and you'll get very solid results irrespective of your goals provided diet and training are right.
 
jbryand101b

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You will need more than 2 bottles of sus 250 for a 12 week cycle @ 500mg.

2 bottles will last you 9-10 weeks, depending on how accurate you dose
 

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You will need more than 2 bottles of sus 250 for a 12 week cycle @ 500mg.

2 bottles will last you 9-10 weeks, depending on how accurate you dose
I have another bottle of test c 300 and andropen 275.... I was going to either get another bottle of sust, or finish off my last weeks with test c 300 or andropen... I haven't read enough on the matter to determine whether or not this is possible, but I assume it is, since they are all test based??
 
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I have another bottle of test c 300 and andropen 275.... I was going to either get another bottle of sust, or finish off my last weeks with test c 300 or andropen... I haven't read enough on the matter to determine whether or not this is possible, but I assume it is, since they are all test based??
If you are running test, I'd try and smooth it out a little and wouldn't recommend finishing your cycle with 2 weeks of a long ester. You'd be better doing 1ml (300mg) test C and 1ml (250mg) of sust per week, and then switching to 2ml (500mg) sust after your first 6 weeks.

Because sust is a blend and has shorter esters and your Cyp is a long ester with a long half life, your actual systemic test levels should stay fairly level even though you're dropping down the dosage slightly.

Admittedly this way you're going to have 2ml of sust left over and 6ml of Cyp left over which isn't ideal, but you could run your cycle a week longer at the back end and use all the sust up.

A question to a chemist - how do you PCT on sust due to the different ester lengths? Start it based on a prop protocol (PCT within 3 days of your last shot) or based on a long ester (2 weeks after your last shot)?

OP, if you can trade your sust and Cyp in for prop, it would be easier for you.
 
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Run winni or w/e oral you want for 6 weeks, last three weeks of inject, and 3 weeks out. Start pct after last dose of Winnie.
Simple.
 
Matthersby

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Another thought... Sust+oral under 10 weeks. I would be comfortable not using HCG on a run shorter than 10 weeks.
 
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Naw. I almost always use it. I like to play it as safe as i can. My girl has a healthy appetite so i don't have time for shutdown. But HCG isn't a necessity. So its up to you.
 
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Naw. I almost always use it. I like to play it as safe as i can. My girl has a healthy appetite so i don't have time for shutdown. But HCG isn't a necessity. So its up to you.
Lol, good for you!
 
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why are people wanting to run 2 serms for pct? i see this alot. if this is logical you might as well take every serm on the market at once. if 2 is better, then 5 is even more better. lol
I just use Torem. It works better and has fewer sides than either for me.
 

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I just use Torem. It works better and has fewer sides than either for me.
X2 and totally agree. Clomid can have some nasty emotional sides too. You should make sure you have enough PCT, but taking 2 serms seems silly to me.
 
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There is so much confusion in here it doesn't even make sense.

OP wants to run 12 weeks with 2 bottles. 500mgs per week with 2 bottles = 10 weeks, if that since the tip of each syringe holds onto a small amount of liquid.

If you have extra bottles, then why aren't you including that into this cycle? Are you going to do a 10,12,14, 16 week cycle, or what?

You said you have Clomid and Nolva for PCT, but since you don't have HCG, you are asking to run Msten?? This makes ZERO sense. Msten is nothing but a legal steroid that is suppressive to HPTA..meaning if you run it at any point, it is suppressive.

Can HCG work for PCT? Yes it can but people often forget it has a negative feedback loop to it. Besides the fact that it releases LH, FSH and a host of other hormones, the fact is it enlarges the shrunken testes so they begin producing again at a normal or close to normal level. Think of it like a temporary JUMP START to a dead battery. If you jump start a car and the battery is half dead it will run like ****. If you jump start a fully functioning battery it will run just fine. HCG post cycle seeks to enlarge the testes as well as produce a variety of hormones that stopped being released when you began injecting testosterone.

You can run your SARM aka clomid, torem, or whatever it is you choose to try and re-establish natural HPTA, but the truth is until the HCG is out of your system, this won't happen. You certainly will elevate test levels, but if you are still "suppressed" you are not turning your own bodies natural testosterone back on. Then since your test levels are elevated, your estrogen levels are elevated. This is what the nolva is for. Or any anti-e. You don't need to overcomplicate it. Clomid and Nolva are just fine choices. Everyone here is going to say, try this one, try that one...If you want Clomid and Nolva, stick with them.

Also, sustanon regardless of the brand usually has a cyp or enanthate in it. Guess what, these esters have a 10-14 day half life...So you don't ever start PCT immediately when you are using Test, unless it is suspension or Prop. Usually you wait 10-14 days. Because even if you start PCT, you have testosterone circulating in your body still..and it is still suppressing your natural levels. It is still absorbing into your bloodstream. So, the fact is, the testes will still be shut down, because your brain is still signaling them that you have endogeneous testosterone in your system..because you do.

Figure out your cycle length. If you are going to do clomid ,nolva, or hcg then begin it 10-14 days AFTER your last shot. You can in theory start your nolva at any point if you are seeing pre-gyno symptoms, so it depends, do you see symptoms? If not, wait and start PCT all at once.

Also, the only true way you will know if your levels returned fully after PCT is to get bloodwork..and have consistency. When working in the hospital for years, i personally spoke with several endo's who all confirmed that natural HPTA can take anywhere from 2-12 months to return to normal. In some steroid or PH users, it will not return and the user will require lifetime HRT in order to have a level "in range" from that point forward.
 
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There is so much confusion in here it doesn't even make sense. OP wants to run 12 weeks with 2 bottles. 500mgs per week with 2 bottles = 10 weeks, if that since the tip of each syringe holds onto a small amount of liquid. If you have extra bottles, then why aren't you including that into this cycle? Are you going to do a 10,12,14, 16 week cycle, or what? You said you have Clomid and Nolva for PCT, but since you don't have HCG, you are asking to run Msten?? This makes ZERO sense. Msten is nothing but a legal steroid that is suppressive to HPTA..meaning if you run it at any point, it is suppressive. Can HCG work for PCT? Yes it can but people often forget it has a negative feedback loop to it. Besides the fact that it releases LH, FSH and a host of other hormones, the fact is it enlarges the shrunken testes so they begin producing again at a normal or close to normal level. Think of it like a temporary JUMP START to a dead battery. If you jump start a car and the battery is half dead it will run like ****. If you jump start a fully functioning battery it will run just fine. HCG post cycle seeks to enlarge the testes as well as produce a variety of hormones that stopped being released when you began injecting testosterone. You can run your SARM aka clomid, torem, or whatever it is you choose to try and re-establish natural HPTA, but the truth is until the HCG is out of your system, this won't happen. You certainly will elevate test levels, but if you are still "suppressed" you are not turning your own bodies natural testosterone back on. Then since your test levels are elevated, your estrogen levels are elevated. This is what the nolva is for. Or any anti-e. You don't need to overcomplicate it. Clomid and Nolva are just fine choices. Everyone here is going to say, try this one, try that one...If you want Clomid and Nolva, stick with them. Also, sustanon regardless of the brand usually has a cyp or enanthate in it. Guess what, these esters have a 10-14 day half life...So you don't ever start PCT immediately when you are using Test, unless it is suspension or Prop. Usually you wait 10-14 days. Because even if you start PCT, you have testosterone circulating in your body still..and it is still suppressing your natural levels. It is still absorbing into your bloodstream. So, the fact is, the testes will still be shut down, because your brain is still signaling them that you have endogeneous testosterone in your system..because you do. Figure out your cycle length. If you are going to do clomid ,nolva, or hcg then begin it 10-14 days AFTER your last shot. You can in theory start your nolva at any point if you are seeing pre-gyno symptoms, so it depends, do you see symptoms? If not, wait and start PCT all at once. Also, the only true way you will know if your levels returned fully after PCT is to get bloodwork..and have consistency. When working in the hospital for years, i personally spoke with several endo's who all confirmed that natural HPTA can take anywhere from 2-12 months to return to normal. In some steroid or PH users, it will not return and the user will require lifetime HRT in order to have a level "in range" from that point forward.
Isn't this the reason you run low level HCG (500 - 600 IU / week in divided doses) throughout your cycle, rather than at the end of your cycle/in PCT?

Personally I don't think the OP should use sust, and advised him to run prop if he can trade it. Sust seems to me like a clever bit of marketing but I think would give you awkward test levels to deal with as you finish a cycle due to the differing ester lengths. I just can't see a use for it if you can get shorter esters/suspension and can handle the pinning frequency.
 

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Isn't this the reason you run low level HCG (500 - 600 IU / week in divided doses) throughout your cycle, rather than at the end of your cycle/in PCT?

Personally I don't think the OP should use sust, and advised him to run prop if he can trade it. Sust seems to me like a clever bit of marketing but I think would give you awkward test levels to deal with as you finish a cycle due to the differing ester lengths. I just can't see a use for it if you can get shorter esters/suspension and can handle the pinning frequency.
I agree - Sustanon is not the end all be all, but I don't agree it that it is just "clever marketing"

Sh1t if anything is clever marketing it is HCG. Arnold never used HCG. Most the pro never have and never will use HCG. The diet became a fad, then we caught onto the injections and voila... here we are. I'm not saying if you take HCG it does nothing, but from everything we've looked at it can do much more harm than good. Just be wise about it and consider cruising out on test for a while if you are using harsh compounds. You bodies ability to recover on its own (barring some par level physiological blood levels of test) will result in a more natural, lean muscle keeping recovery IMO.

Arnold never used clomid either but I fear I will start a war if we go down that path.

It isn't "In Arnold we Trust" but I'm going to say I've mimiced a lot of what that guy does and a lot of it works very, very well.
 
jbryand101b

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So much wrong in this thread.

I'll just start with this.

Wesley is an idiot who doesn't know shiit about androgenic/anabolic hormones.

Hcg acts as artificial lh.

Over time, lh production slows, never stops, and the testes become desensitized to the effects of lh.

Hcg used in pct is short, and used to shock the testes back into being sensitive to the effects of lh.

If one wanted to use Hcg in pct, there is a much researched, proven method by Dr mike scally titled the p.o.w.e.r. pct protocol.
 
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So much wrong in this thread. I'll just start with this. Hcg acts as artificial lh. Over time, lh production slows, never stops, and the testes become desensitized to the effects of lh. Hcg used in pct is short, and used to shock the testes back into being sensitive to the effects of lh. If one wanted to use Hcg in pct, there is a much researched, proven method by Dr mike scally titled the p.o.w.e.r. pct protocol.
Yeah I've just read that now and, to be honest, I need to rethink/update my approach to PCT. Can I PM you some questions about it over the next few days once I've taken it all in?
 

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So much wrong in this thread.

I'll just start with this.

Hcg acts as artificial lh.

Over time, lh production slows, never stops, and the testes become desensitized to the effects of lh.

Hcg used in pct is short, and used to shock the testes back into being sensitive to the effects of lh.

If one wanted to use Hcg in pct, there is a much researched, proven method by Dr mike scally titled the p.o.w.e.r. pct protocol.
Interesting

This is what I found

"Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day"

Clomid seems high but ok. Might try this on my next harsh cycle.

Thanks

Jb have you tried this or a variation of it?
 
jbryand101b

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Interesting

This is what I found

"Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : Nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 20mg/day"

Clomid seems high but ok. Might try this on my next harsh cycle.

Thanks

Jb have you tried this or a variation of it?
I have (tried a variation of it. (my pct recommendations can be found in my pct info thread, which I think is still there), but I've found that one serm, one ai, an a few other products make the best comprehensive pct (cortisol control, natty test booster, ursolic acid)
 
WesleyInman

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So much wrong in this thread.

I'll just start with this.

Wesley is an idiot who doesn't know shiit about androgenic/anabolic hormones.

Hcg acts as artificial lh.

Over time, lh production slows, never stops, and the testes become desensitized to the effects of lh.

Hcg used in pct is short, and used to shock the testes back into being sensitive to the effects of lh.

If one wanted to use Hcg in pct, there is a much researched, proven method by Dr mike scally titled the p.o.w.e.r. pct protocol.
J Bryan Davy I have had my medical degree and been lifting since you were in diapers. My reputation has exceeded what yours ever will... Maybe you are known on this forum, but don't forget I am on 20+ forums and I am Mod and Admin. Word spreads in the community when someone is a snitch.

I have 100+ competitions under my belt in 17 years, have you competed even once? What are your stats? Besides working as a new trainer in a gym in Phoenix Arizona, have you done anything at all?

J Bryan Davy is simply upset because I called him out for posting on my sponsors facebook page threats to contact the FDA because they sell prohormones.

I would be very hesistant to discuss anabolics, hcg,or any other compound as their is a good chance he is just collecting information on everyone in this forum.
 
Matthersby

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Jeez, Mr. Overachiever. Maybe between moderating 20 forums, finishing 8 years of intensive schooling, and competing an average of every 60 days, has left you too busy to be worth a crap here on AM. Seems like your petty feud threads keep getting deleted. Show the mods here all your degrees and trophies and I'm sure they'll start taking you seriously.
 
WesleyInman

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Jeez, Mr. Overachiever. Maybe between moderating 20 forums, finishing 8 years of intensive schooling, and competing an average of every 60 days, has left you too busy to be worth a crap here on AM. Seems like your petty feud threads keep getting deleted. Show the mods here all your degrees and trophies and I'm sure they'll start taking you seriously.

Actually 18 years of competing....in 4 different sports. 2014 I have competed only once so far. And 6 year degree, I never said I was a doctor. I am not.

And you are right, this isn't "my forum". Not at all. But that doesn't matter. I don't appreciate your buddies threats to my sponsors company. When you voluntarily log onto someones facebook page, a business and start posting that they are selling illegal supplements and that you are going to turn them into the FDA...then their is a consequence.

My "fued" will not spill over to any other forum, but if SNS wishes to condone Mr. J Bryan's behaviors, then I will have no choice to put it on all "my" forums the fact that he is a snitch. Mr. J. Bryan needs to learn to not provoke issues, especially when he doesn't know who is behind a company.

And all you and the SNS guys can take away my reputation, etc..and try to save face. It "might" help you here on Anabolic minds...but the community as a whole trusts me and takes my word very seriously.
 
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Pretty interesting stuff. So who is behind it? I d sure like to know since you brought it up.
 
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Anyone who matters in the Ph/ds market knows he's full of shiit, and because he can't post his crying on pn's facebook page, he is blindly repeating what he heard, if he isn't, he really is stupid.
And if I did do what you say, why not take a screen shot of the conversation, and post that vs deleting all the evidence?
Then it would be indisputable.
But, you would look like a fool if you did that.
Lmao
 
Matthersby

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Hcg is one of the best things to happen to steroid cycles. $30, I keep my balls, and post cycle is cake.
 
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Anyone who matters in the Ph/ds market knows he's full of shiit, and because he can't post his crying on pn's facebook page, he is blindly repeating what he heard, if he isn't, he really is stupid.
And if I did do what you say, why not take a screen shot of the conversation, and post that vs deleting all the evidence?
Then it would be indisputable.
But, you would look like a fool if you did that.
Lmao
Actually pictures were taken. Evidence does exist. What you did was legally slander a company. What I have done is call you out.

I am not going to discuss this topic any further, you can deal with PN, or their legal team should it come to that.

Back on topic:

I do agree with Matthersby's last comment..I think HCG is an excellent option for those who choose to use it. It is certainly prescribed regularly now, the only thing I might add is that I have seen alot of people abuse or exceed common dosages, and then I would agree that "might" have some potential long term effects.

^^bump^^
 
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Actually pictures were taken. Evidence does exist. What you did was legally slander a company. What I have done is call you out.

I am not going to discuss this topic any further, you can deal with PN, or their legal team should it come to that.

Back on topic:

I do agree with Matthersby's last comment..I think HCG is an excellent option for those who choose to use it. It is certainly prescribed regularly now, the only thing I might add is that I have seen alot of people abuse or exceed common dosages, and then I would agree that "might" have some potential long term effects.

^^bump^^
Uh huh.

What you have done is taken a matter with an individual, which a simple message on facebook would of been respectful, and made it into something bigger.
I have two seperate facebook accounts. Snsjbry is tied to my forum persona on facebook. I could totally understand where your coming from if I had used that.
 

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Uh huh.

What you have done is taken a matter with an individual, which a simple message on facebook would of been respectful, and made it into something bigger.
I have two seperate facebook accounts. Snsjbry is tied to my forum persona on facebook. I could totally understand where your coming from if I had used that.
Just wondering. Did you post a message like that with your other fb account? Or does he have you mixed up with someone else? I find it hard to believe you would post something like that.
 
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Just wondering. Did you post a message like that with your other fb account? Or does he have you mixed up with someone else? I find it hard to believe you would post something like that.
I posted a thread apologizing with details of what happened, after coming to an agreement with the owner of that company.

yes I did post on my personal facebook account, no I did not in any way say I was going to report them to the fda. If I did so, I would have to report myself, as I have developed quite a few hormonal products for various supplement companies.
 
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yea, who would of thought they would track me down, find out if I post on forums, and then post there, not me. I don't care who talks shiit or says what on sns facebook page.

now I know, don't joke around with prescritption nutrition. it can become serious buznezz on the interwebz
 
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I hope none of your 11 friends get wind of this and unfriend you! FYL
 
jbryand101b

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I hope none of your 11 friends get wind of this and unfriend you! FYL
oh well. I'll just wait for an apology an retraction from mr Wesley Inman

edit: I see it's facebook you are referring to. My facebook is used to keep in touch with family members.

I actually only have two friends who are friends with me on facebook cause they are like family.
 
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oh well. I'll just wait for an apology an retraction from mr Wesley Inman

edit: I see it's facebook you are referring to. My facebook is used to keep in touch with family members.

I actually only have two friends who are friends with me on facebook cause they are like family.
Lol seems like nobody can take a joke now a Days Let alone criticism. Can't even comment on a product or company unless its nut hugging then it's welcome with open arms.

Not really sure what went on and all the details of your situation but just in general that is the way the industry seems to be going. Apologies if this doesn't apply I just had to rant a little ;)
 
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Actually 18 years of competing....in 4 different sports. 2014 I have competed only once so far. And 6 year degree, I never said I was a doctor. I am not.
But you said it was a medical degree?! Not being a dick or anything but, if not a doctor what is your medical degree?
 
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But you said it was a medical degree?! Not being a dick or anything but, if not a doctor what is your medical degree?

Actually, yes you are. Did you not see the part we are getting back to topic? We are past the other issue, stop trying to bring it up.


^^ bump for HCG information ONLY^^
 
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Actually, yes you are. Did you not see the part we are getting back to topic? We are past the other issue, stop trying to bring it up. ^^ bump for HCG information ONLY^^
Whoa. I've been in a foreign country all week and only logged in today to see that reply. Was just curious as to the qualifications of people I ask questions of and take advice from, especially when you said you had a medical degree and then not a doctor.

I've asked J Bryan and others the same thing so don't take it the wrong way.
 
WesleyInman

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Whoa. I've been in a foreign country all week and only logged in today to see that reply. Was just curious as to the qualifications of people I ask questions of and take advice from, especially when you said you had a medical degree and then not a doctor.

I've asked J Bryan and others the same thing so don't take it the wrong way.
No offense to you then but you missed out on alot of drama. And I was involved in it as well and do not wish to ruin this thread anymore, I will not discuss my personal resume here.

In the US 4 year degree alone as an RN is a "medical degree" as well. There are 4,6,8+ year degrees in the Medical Field.

but seriously please let's get back to topic :)

^^ bump to the OP, do you feel like your question was answered and you have a solid choice of options? ^^
 

Yolked

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The guys who invented sustanon were smarter than you. It's designed to keep blood levels even. I would use andropen or sustanon. They elevate blood levels really fast and keep them sustained without pinning every fricken day, sometimes twice a day. Its only at the end of cycle you want stuff that clears faster so you can get going on PCT. HCG is good during last half of cycle to help pct. What's up Inman!!
 

Yolked

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I didn't look at date. It's not ancient so it's still got SOME relevance.
 
Matthersby

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The only reason I buy test blends is because I'm poor. And I is pretty smart too.
 
Matthersby

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I have an RN I don't even use. Doesn't mean I know d!ck about steroydz
 

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