NDT/T3: Low body temp 96, high heart rate, can't raise temp in ratio.

Kuraudo

New member
Awards
0
(Please move if not the right forum) So I know this isn't a medical forum, but since you guys experiment with dosages all the time you know better than docs who only care about money and won't advise.. anyways this isn't a question regarding recreational usage, but mandatory thyroid replacement use:

So taking NDT (Natural dessicated thyroid) which can be purchased OTC it takes 210mg to reach 96.5-97.2 degrees oral temp. However, if I increase it anymore I only get rapid heart rate, imsomnia but no temperature increase.

The ratio of temperature increase is too low vs. the high heart rate. In the past, I have also tried T3 upwards it took a high dose of 50mcg to even reach anywhere close to 98 degrees , but then I'd a heart rate of 120 all day long. Even that is not guaranteed as most of the time it will be 97 with high heart rate.

Docs are really dumb, they say my temp is too high but I can't even function as I'm getting hypothermia , shivering to death.
Also they refused to prescribe me anything and that's regarding many docs I've seen.

Anyways, not sure if u know if T4 would be better, but that is hard for me to acquire. Thanks!
 

PhoenixGamer

Member
Awards
0
You have low cortisol. More thyroid will only make things worse for you as you have free thyroid in your blood not entering the cells throughout your body. You will get muscle loss if that hasn't already started happening. Do a 24 Hour Saliva Cortisol test to see your free cortisol levels. You need fix your weak adrenal function before thyroid (or any other hormones, like Test/GH to function at all). You then need to figure out why your adrenal glands are not producing cortisol. Could be many things, stress, trauma, but I'd look into your GI health. Post antibiotic use causes intestinal dysbiosis (bacteria/and or fungal overgrowth, SIBO, etc.) Research gut brain axis. This will prevent your body from signalling to produce sufficient cortisol.
 

Kuraudo

New member
Awards
0
You have low cortisol. More thyroid will only make things worse for you as you have free thyroid in your blood not entering the cells throughout your body. You will get muscle loss if that hasn't already started happening. Do a 24 Hour Saliva Cortisol test to see your free cortisol levels. You need fix your weak adrenal function before thyroid (or any other hormones, like Test/GH to function at all). You then need to figure out why your adrenal glands are not producing cortisol. Could be many things, stress, trauma, but I'd look into your GI health. Post antibiotic use causes intestinal dysbiosis (bacteria/and or fungal overgrowth, SIBO, etc.) Research gut brain axis. This will prevent your body from signalling to produce sufficient cortisol.
Ahh. Yes, you're definitely onto something. Even playing video games will stress me out, definitely a rollercoaster is a no no at this point even though I used to really like them.

I will take a adrenal test, I have heard this before too. Btw, do u know of any good supplements for adrenal fixes?

And yea you're right. The antibiotics from my doc totally wrecked me. I was on a pair of them at once due to back to back infections. I also had bloating for years, but I solved it with probiotics of high grade.

Thanks for the replies/tips!
 

PhoenixGamer

Member
Awards
0
It needs to be a 24-hour saliva cortisol test. Blood test for cortisol is not accurate as it may be in range because it measures bound (not free) cortisol. The saliva measures free cortisol and it will be extremely accurate. You can also do a ACTH Stimulation test that an endocrinologist can order. They get a baseline blood cortisol level. Then they administer cosyntropin, this will stimulate your adrenal glands to produce cortisol and they measure your blood at 30 minutes after and again at 60 minutes post shot. In healthy people their cortisol levels go up very high. In your case, you may not produce much cortisol from your baseline. This will tell you how severe your adrenal insufficiency is. DO NOT take Hydrocortisone (cortisol) tablets for low cortisol. This will make things worse, despite what the endocrinologist will tell you. You need to fix the problem. Research gut-brain axis. Unfortunately, probiotics will never fix your gut because they are transient, they do not colonize the large intestines. Work with a Naturopath and have them order Genova Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) to see your colon's microbiome. You may need Fecal Microbiota Transplants (FMTs). Google everything I'm telling you. Antibiotics have wiped out entire human strains of good bacteria in your colon. They are no longer in your colon, the same as when they killed your pathogenic bacteria. The problem is that you now have dysbiosis as there are other bad bacteria strains that are still there out-competing the too few good bacteria remaining. The only way to fix this is by (ironically) taking antibiotics again BUT, then you must replace your microbiome with that of a healthy person's microbiome. I know it sounds nasty, but this is the only cure. They found out because C. Dificile infected patients would die because they kept taking antibiotics over and over until no good bacteria remained, thus leaving the bad pathogens to grow. By replacing the missing good strains of bacteria, they restore everything by preventing the bad bacteria from coming back. This gets rid of the constant inflammation, toxins (LPS). Also, you will absorb your food again. This fixes your low cortisol because you are currently infected with the dysbiosis daily and your body cannot signal to the brain to produce cortisol.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
In order to avoid further speculation and hypothesis, which may be all we can provide over the internet - do you have copies of your blood work that you would be willing to share? Especially over time?
 

Kuraudo

New member
Awards
0
To both of you. I will order the 24 hour cortisol kit and get back to you next month. All i know right now is that i have suppressed TSH, which Is normal for someone who takes NDT.

AnD Phoenixgamer: Indeed, I'm getting very VERY bad carpal, arthritis, random knee and muscle pains all over my body where I can't use my phone or PC much during the day. Inflammation, muscle mass loss probably.

In order to avoid further speculation and hypothesis, which may be all we can provide over the internet - do you have copies of your blood work that you would be willing to share? Especially over time?
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
To both of you. I will order the 24 hour cortisol kit and get back to you next month. All i know right now is that i have suppressed TSH, which Is normal for someone who takes NDT.

AnD Phoenixgamer: Indeed, I'm getting very VERY bad carpal, arthritis, random knee and muscle pains all over my body where I can't use my phone or PC much during the day. Inflammation, muscle mass loss probably.
Are you located in the US? Mind sharing what part?

If you can get your bloodwork up, a CBC at least may help eliminate some of the possible causes of those symptoms.

What you're describing could have a half dozen underlying causes, none of which have been remotely mentioned in this thread yet and need to be eliminated with actual evidence and not speculation.
 

Kuraudo

New member
Awards
0
I live in Southern Cali.
Q: WHAT is a CBC? STands for what?

So let's say i finish the 24 adrenal test. Then what? My docs have already chosen not to help me anyways. Even for my thryroid, my ndt comes 100% out of pocket, which is the only thing that gets me even somewhat better.

I don't have standard health insurance, the free one only. Btw, insurance is $400 MIN at my age, and UP. Higher since I need all kinds of ****. I hardly have any money in my bank, not just can't afford, but literally nearly broke.

So after I get the adrenal test, if I find its high or low, then what? Then docs have decided not to treat my thyroid either. Once I talk money, they somehow change their mind and have different results

So yea, I want the test results on that, but then I can't really do anything about it anyways so I might need that money to live, eat.

Are you located in the US? Mind sharing what part?

If you can get your bloodwork up, a CBC at least may help eliminate some of the possible causes of those symptoms.

What you're describing could have a half dozen underlying causes, none of which have been remotely mentioned in this thread yet and need to be eliminated with actual evidence and not speculation.
 

Kuraudo

New member
Awards
0
To anyone,
If I sound frustrated don't take it personally. It's been a long ass battle lol :p I thank you both for your assistance!

Would it be better to save, and make sure I have a bundle of money first before doing any tests? I really could use that $140 for the adrenal test, for like food. I only eat/drink the basics and don't go out. But I've been out of work because my condition keeps me from holding a job.

I want to go see a naturopath! How do I choose one? I know from people's YT channels they say they have to go through a few at least before they find a good one. THEN I know it costs $200 PER visit around h ere. I did call and ask.

I mean i could do the test and sit on it..but nothing would get resolved, and no food to eat.

It needs to be a 24-hour saliva cortisol test. Blood test for cortisol is not accurate as it may be in range because it measures bound (not free) cortisol. The saliva measures free cortisol and it will be extremely accurate. You can also do a ACTH Stimulation test that an endocrinologist can order. They get a baseline blood cortisol level. Then they administer cosyntropin, this will stimulate your adrenal glands to produce cortisol and they measure your blood at 30 minutes after and again at 60 minutes post shot. In healthy people their cortisol levels go up very high. In your case, you may not produce much cortisol from your baseline. This will tell you how severe your adrenal insufficiency is. DO NOT take Hydrocortisone (cortisol) tablets for low cortisol. This will make things worse, despite what the endocrinologist will tell you. You need to fix the problem. Research gut-brain axis. Unfortunately, probiotics will never fix your gut because they are transient, they do not colonize the large intestines. Work with a Naturopath and have them order Genova Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis (CDSA) to see your colon's microbiome. You may need Fecal Microbiota Transplants (FMTs). Google everything I'm telling you. Antibiotics have wiped out entire human strains of good bacteria in your colon. They are no longer in your colon, the same as when they killed your pathogenic bacteria. The problem is that you now have dysbiosis as there are other bad bacteria strains that are still there out-competing the too few good bacteria remaining. The only way to fix this is by (ironically) taking antibiotics again BUT, then you must replace your microbiome with that of a healthy person's microbiome. I know it sounds nasty, but this is the only cure. They found out because C. Dificile infected patients would die because they kept taking antibiotics over and over until no good bacteria remained, thus leaving the bad pathogens to grow. By replacing the missing good strains of bacteria, they restore everything by preventing the bad bacteria from coming back. This gets rid of the constant inflammation, toxins (LPS). Also, you will absorb your food again. This fixes your low cortisol because you are currently infected with the dysbiosis daily and your body cannot signal to the brain to produce cortisol.
 
HIT4ME

HIT4ME

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I live in Southern Cali.
Q: WHAT is a CBC? STands for what?

So let's say i finish the 24 adrenal test. Then what? My docs have already chosen not to help me anyways. Even for my thryroid, my ndt comes 100% out of pocket, which is the only thing that gets me even somewhat better.

I don't have standard health insurance, the free one only. Btw, insurance is $400 MIN at my age, and UP. Higher since I need all kinds of ****. I hardly have any money in my bank, not just can't afford, but literally nearly broke.

So after I get the adrenal test, if I find its high or low, then what? Then docs have decided not to treat my thyroid either. Once I talk money, they somehow change their mind and have different results

So yea, I want the test results on that, but then I can't really do anything about it anyways so I might need that money to live, eat.
Sorry - CBC = Complete Blood Count. It is the test that shows how many red blood cells you have (RBC) and their size, shape, composition, etc. It seems like a simple test, but can give a lot of insight as too which paths you should go down next.

You can get a CBC for around $15 online, or if your doctor has already done bloodwork you can call them and ask for your blood work and they should give it to you.

I know everyone thinks their doctors are idiots. I have been in enough rooms with patients and doctors (with family and friends) to see how easy it is to have no understanding of all the things they are looking at and what they've already investigated without you knowing. And this is how it should be - if you came to me and I just said, "This could be a dozen things...how about this....nope, not that...how about this....nope, not that....maybe this? No, not that either." ....you would lose faith in me very quickly - Doctors have to have a strategic process to figure these things out and they don't want to talk about all the things they are merely eliminating to be safe, in order to not make you feel like they are shooting in the dark and also not to scare some patients who freak out over everything. Not saying you are freaking out over everything - but some people do, so it's a better strategy to play it cool.

I feel your pain on the money part. Don't look at this like you are solving a single problem. Look at it as you are building evidence for a case. If you can go to a doctor and show a solid test showing that you are out of range, they will be more likely to conduct their own test.

Plus, if it is high or low, at least you have a piece of evidence for what the next steps you should take are - you aren't just guessing.

But what if it comes back normal? What then? Other than a guess so far, based on some random symptoms, we have no real evidence to point to low cortisol.

Symptoms are not a great diagnostic tool - a dozen different diseases and issues could all have the same overlapping symptoms.

Low thyroid may have you feeling tired, achy, cold, etc.

Anemia, also may have you feeling tired, achy, cold, etc.

Addison's Disease may have you feeling tired, achy, cold, etc.

And so on and so forth with 3-4 more issues I could think of, and probably a dozen more I'm not even aware of.

As far as your thyroid - you said your TSH is low. This indicates an OVER-active, not an under-active thyroid. Since you are supplementing thyroid hormone, it would be a normal response to have low TSH. There is nothing to treat there, so I'm not sure what the doctors can treat? Plus, are we talking low but within range, or low and out of range?

If you have low TSH output, it could be from the NDT or from an underlying issue, but how can you tell if that's a meaningful number when you have been taking NDT?

Finally, low body temperature - my body temps are similar to yours with no thyroid issues, etc. Not everyone is 98.6 degrees and a lot of people are lower. Taking thyroid meds just to bring up body temps is not a proper approach - but you do sound like the cold is bothering you so it may be something that needs to be dealt with, we just need to figure out exactly what it could be.

The reason I asked about your region is because what you are describing can be symptoms of Lyme disease also. It may be good to get a test done, but it seems to be low probability in your region from what I just Google'd.

To anyone,
If I sound frustrated don't take it personally. It's been a long ass battle lol :p I thank you both for your assistance!

Would it be better to save, and make sure I have a bundle of money first before doing any tests? I really could use that $140 for the adrenal test, for like food. I only eat/drink the basics and don't go out. But I've been out of work because my condition keeps me from holding a job.

I want to go see a naturopath! How do I choose one? I know from people's YT channels they say they have to go through a few at least before they find a good one. THEN I know it costs $200 PER visit around h ere. I did call and ask.

I mean i could do the test and sit on it..but nothing would get resolved, and no food to eat.
Call your doctor and ask if you can get a copy of all of your blood work. That should be free. Yes, there are good doctors and bad doctors. It's hard to find a really good doctor.

If you can't work because you are too achy and cold to go to work - then you have every right to be frustrated. And of course, I get that it can be even more frustrating to have a bunch of people throwing out random ideas that you get hopeful are the answer and then find out it didn't help....
 

Similar threads


Top