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My take on IGF-1

joikd said:
I want no gut growth at all!!! I mean none. So, would using rhIGF-1 be the best way for me to go?
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I would say no, because at low dosage 20mcg or 30mcg eod e3d you will destroy it in urine if you exceed what u need, your not going to take 100mcg a day of course because ull get the coleman gut of the beast, but ill let grunt ze master answer.


:good:
 
Thanks for your previous response. Another issue on which I require clarification:

Let's say one is not focusing on a specific lagging muscle but wishes to hit most or all of the muscle groups...

I'm assuming the receptor downregulation only occurs on the muscle injected. Is this accurate? So if this is the case, then could you avoid downregulation even at 40mcg ED provided that each specific muscle group was only pinned E7D?

On a related issue, if one were pinning 40mcg ED but only hitting each muscle E7D, would you still recommend limiting to 4 week cycles?
 
TeamSavage said:
Thanks for your previous response. Another issue on which I require clarification:

Let's say one is not focusing on a specific lagging muscle but wishes to hit most or all of the muscle groups...

I'm assuming the receptor downregulation only occurs on the muscle injected. Is this accurate? So if this is the case, then could you avoid downregulation even at 40mcg ED provided that each specific muscle group was only pinned E7D?

On a related issue, if one were pinning 40mcg ED but only hitting each muscle E7D, would you still recommend limiting to 4 week cycles?
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There seems to be this huge problem with the idea that IGF-1 is both local and systemic. When you inject immediately postworkout in the muscle trained, most of the effect will go to the intended muscle, and there will be some degree of systemic spillover depending on your dosage.

For this reason, an EOD or E3D protocol is best. That is, not for any given muscle, but for any IGF-1 at all. You may get increased results by pinning the same muscle twice a week, provided you keep to an EOD or E3D pinning scheduled as indicated above.
 
It's been awhile since I been here(months). I've been reading up on all of this good info recently. I go and try to give Grunt some reps and I get denied. I have to spread it around before I can give anymore to you G. Good info on the IGF-1.
 
Grunt76 said:
What I always do is to load up a syringe with just the needed amount of IGF & AA, then use a small amount of aluminum foil to make a spacer between the end of the plunger and the cylinder to avoid discharging the syringe in transit, and put this and a couple alcohol pads and my BW inside a sunglass case in my gym bag.

I grab my bag after my workout, go change in the shower or toilet and pin at the same time. Then I get my shake.
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I would like to preload my syringe before going to gym to pin post-workout, but im not quite understanding what you are saying about the discharging, u need foil?
 
r1ck said:
I would like to preload my syringe before going to gym to pin post-workout, but im not quite understanding what you are saying about the discharging, u need foil?
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When the syringe is preloaded, obviously accidentally pushing on the plunger in transit will push out the precious IGF-1. So I make a spacer between the barrel and the end of the plunger to keep it from being pushed accidentally. Load up a syringe and you will see what I mean.
 
Grunt76 said:
When the syringe is preloaded, obviously accidentally pushing on the plunger in transit will push out the precious IGF-1. So I make a spacer between the barrel and the end of the plunger to keep it from being pushed accidentally. Load up a syringe and you will see what I mean.
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ahhhh, :)
karma for grunt
 
One day I didn't use a spacer and realized I had wasted all my precious IGF in my secret compartment pocket.. in my pants.... I was pissed.

Lesson learned.
 
I bought some 0.3cc syringe, but the women told me thats it's never going to reach IM cuz the pin is too small? is that true?

she told me its insulin syringe and they are only for under skin
im like i know :), but i still asked her if they can reach IM, she said no because of the thickness of the skin, I know they will reach my IM in my biceps but im not sure about my pecs since they have more skin and not sure about my shoulders and legs
 
r1ck said:
I bought some 0.3cc syringe, but the women told me thats it's never going to reach IM cuz the pin is too small? is that true?

she told me its insulin syringe and they are only for under skin
im like i know :), but i still asked her if they can reach IM, she said no because of the thickness of the skin, I know they will reach my IM in my biceps but im not sure about my pecs since they have more skin and not sure about my shoulders and legs
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a lot of o.3cc syringes automaticaly come with a 5/16" needle but if you look around you can find 1/2"
 
that woman is a jackass. Unless you're a fat SOB you can hit small amounts of depot IM with 1/2" 29g needles. You picked a good size barrel too..3/10 is the shizzy. Just use 1/2" instead of the 5/16's or whatever they are.
 
Ubiquitous said:
that woman is a jackass. Unless you're a fat SOB you can hit small amounts of depot IM with 1/2" 29g needles. You picked a good size barrel too..3/10 is the shizzy. Just use 1/2" instead of the 5/16's or whatever they are.
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Someone should manufacture a slin pin with a 1" needle so fat SOB's can slim down with IGF-1. Maybe even a 2" version for the morbidly obese.
 
Ubiquitous said:
that woman is a jackass. Unless you're a fat SOB you can hit small amounts of depot IM with 1/2" 29g needles. You picked a good size barrel too..3/10 is the shizzy. Just use 1/2" instead of the 5/16's or whatever they are.
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rofl im not fat, but my pecs have a little fat on them, if I mesure them with a body fat caliper it's
pecs 10mm,
my biceps 1mm lol,
tricep 7mm
thigh 8mm
calf 8mm

im around 12% BF,
how much mm is 5/16 ?
 
r1ck said:
rofl im not fat, but my pecs have a little fat on them, if I mesure them with a body fat caliper it's
pecs 10mm,
my biceps 1mm lol,
tricep 7mm
thigh 8mm
calf 8mm

im around 12% BF,
how much mm is 5/16 ?
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Try this...
Invalid Link Removed
(There's a little-known website you can use to find this sort of information. It's called Google.com. Learn it, love it, use it.)

Remember that the calipers measure the fat layer folded over, so the caliper measurement is actually two layers of fat, twice the thickness of the single fat layer as it normally rests atop the muscle.

Still, just get a 1/2" pin. The big pharmacy chains sell them for $3/10.
 
Grunt76 said:
When the syringe is preloaded, obviously accidentally pushing on the plunger in transit will push out the precious IGF-1. So I make a spacer between the barrel and the end of the plunger to keep it from being pushed accidentally. Load up a syringe and you will see what I mean.
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Is this the only reason you don't preload? I've read a few direction on mixing & they say not to preload. Is there other reasons like down regulation of the igf? Or does it destory it after setting this way after awhile?

I'm talking about mixing it w/ aa then adding the sodium.

Thanks, G
 
Thunder1 said:
Is this the only reason you don't preload? I've read a few direction on mixing & they say not to preload. Is there other reasons like down regulation of the igf? Or does it destory it after setting this way after awhile?

I'm talking about mixing it w/ aa then adding the sodium.

Thanks, G
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Yep the guys who recommend not preloading are talking about when you add the BW to the syringe when you preload. That's not the best, which is to bring the BW with you and add that to your syringe right before injecting.
 
r1ck said:
what happen if you inject igf into a vein?, do u need to aspirate before injecting like anabolic steroids?
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ALWAYS aspirate when putting a needle in yourself.

It isn't harmful in veins but it is far from optimal, as you will obtain no local effect.
 
Grunt76 said:
ALWAYS aspirate when putting a needle in yourself.

It isn't harmful in veins but it is far from optimal, as you will obtain no local effect.
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anyone got any tip on trying to aspirate with one hand --like when you do BIs?[having a bit** of a time]also I notice when you aspirate you draw some air into the syringe then shoot the air back in?----when I shoot lats think Im gone skip aspirate---not many viens their
 
skull said:
anyone got any tip on trying to aspirate with one hand --like when you do BIs?[having a bit** of a time]also I notice when you aspirate you draw some air into the syringe then shoot the air back in?----when I shoot lats think Im gone skip aspirate---not many viens their
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That's not air, that's empty space. Yep, shoot the empty space in... :p
 
Skull, it's a vacuum, at least it is with a slin pin.

You have blood vessels in your lats. I aspirate with anything, no matter what.

Aspirating with one hand.. put a finger on the hilt of the barrel, grasp the plunger in any way feasable, and pull back while exerting force with the finger on the barrel... this keeps the pin relatively stable.. you can get it with practice.
 
Ubiquitous said:
Skull, it's a vacuum, at least it is with a slin pin.

You have blood vessels in your lats. I aspirate with anything, no matter what.

Aspirating with one hand.. put a finger on the hilt of the barrel, grasp the plunger in any way feasable, and pull back while exerting force with the finger on the barrel... this keeps the pin relatively stable.. you can get it with practice.
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I agree with Mr. Pincushion above. :p

Plus, you really don't need to pull back hard AT ALL on the plunger. It takes a LOT more force to create a bubble of vacuum in there than to draw blood when you are in a vein. Any little pull on the plunger brings in blood real quick.
 
Grunt76 said:
Yep the guys who recommend not preloading are talking about when you add the BW to the syringe when you preload. That's not the best, which is to bring the BW with you and add that to your syringe right before injecting.
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So It doesn't destroy the igf if people do preload? Just a safety factor. Sorry I'm just going thru a stupid faze.
 
Thunder1 said:
So It doesn't destroy the igf if people do preload? Just a safety factor. Sorry I'm just going thru a stupid faze.
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IGF-1 lasts about 24 hours when exposed to the BA in BW.
 
Grunt76 said:
IGF-1 lasts about 24 hours when exposed to the BA in BW.
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so u can preload igf and bw, goto gym, inject post-workout, or its better to load bw right before injecting
 
Grunt -

What do you think would happen if a person with high BF tried to inject into a certain muscle, but the layer of fat was thicker than the pin and the IGF got injected into the fat layer? Would the IGF/AA solution mostly end up in the nearby muscle? Or would this be equivalent to a SQ injection, mostly missing the nearby muscle and having primarily systemic effects?
 
Grunt76 said:
IGF-1 lasts about 24 hours when exposed to the BA in BW.
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When you say it lasts about 24 hours, do you mean that it has degraded slightly after 24 hours or that most or all has degraded after 24 hours?

Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions.
 
r1ck said:
so u can preload igf and bw, goto gym, inject post-workout, or its better to load bw right before injecting
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loading BW or NACL is for wussies.. you don't need it.

AA straight up is fine. There's no necrosis after 7mg diluted at 500mcg/ml for me.

That's right, all of you who load BW or NACL into your pin are wussies, and I'm calling you all out... even my man Thunder and my boytoy Grunt.
 
badbart said:
What about the strong assocation between IGF-1 and cancer?
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IGF tends to cause all tissues to grow so if you have cancer then it will grow faster and if you don't have cancer there's nothing to grow. Think 2X2=4 but 2X0 still equals 0.
 
mywetnightmares said:
IGF tends to cause all tissues to grow so if you have cancer then it will grow faster and if you don't have cancer there's nothing to grow. Think 2X2=4 but 2X0 still equals 0.
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Google "IGF1 cancer". Elevated levels of IGF1 are associated with a higher risk of a lot of cancers. Most studies say high levels of IGF1 are a good predictor of who has a higher chance of cancer. I'm no expert but I was reading a thread about IGF 1 were Dr. john said “Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1. Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days. “
 
badbart said:
Google "IGF1 cancer". Elevated levels of IGF1 are associated with a higher risk of a lot of cancers. Most studies say high levels of IGF1 are a good predictor of who has a higher chance of cancer. I'm no expert but I was reading a thread about IGF 1 were Dr. john said “Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1. Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days. “
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I just did a quick review of the Google results and it says that IGF-1 can increase the risk of colon and prostate cancer specifically. I didn't read enough to evaluate the strength of the research behind these claims. But if it is true, then that's even more reason why Grunt's protocol should be employed, since it will minimize systemic IGF-1 distribution (and thus exposure in the prostate and colon) while maximizing site-specific muscular benefits.

Personally, my favorite cancer-causing agent is Copenhagen. If only it helped grow muscles... :(

Not an expert on this, just my 2¢.
 
r1ck said:
so u can preload igf and bw, goto gym, inject post-workout, or its better to load bw right before injecting
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I like to add the BW right before I pin.


TeamSavage said:
Grunt -

What do you think would happen if a person with high BF tried to inject into a certain muscle, but the layer of fat was thicker than the pin and the IGF got injected into the fat layer? Would the IGF/AA solution mostly end up in the nearby muscle? Or would this be equivalent to a SQ injection, mostly missing the nearby muscle and having primarily systemic effects?
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Primarily systemic effects as you state.


TeamSavage said:
When you say it lasts about 24 hours, do you mean that it has degraded slightly after 24 hours or that most or all has degraded after 24 hours?

Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions.
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One very reputable company sells IGF in 100mcg vials. They provide BW to reconstitute it, not AA. They state that the IGF must be used within 24 hours. It is known that IGF-1 degrades pretty quickly in BW, but I do not know at what exact rate. I think it is safe to say that you will get very significant degradation at 48 hours and almost complete at 72 hours.

.
.

badbart said:
What about the strong assocation between IGF-1 and cancer?
Click to expand...

mywetnightmares said:
IGF tends to cause all tissues to grow so if you have cancer then it will grow faster and if you don't have cancer there's nothing to grow. Think 2X2=4 but 2X0 still equals 0.
Click to expand...
TRUE

badbart said:
Google "IGF1 cancer". Elevated levels of IGF1 are associated with a higher risk of a lot of cancers. Most studies say high levels of IGF1 are a good predictor of who has a higher chance of cancer. I'm no expert but I was reading a thread about IGF 1 were Dr. john said “Only GH elevates IGFBP-3, which protects you from the cancer promoting activity of IGF-1. Some of the guys using that stuff are going to be really sorry they did one of these days. “
Click to expand...
Not that true

TeamSavage said:
I just did a quick review of the Google results and it says that IGF-1 can increase the risk of colon and prostate cancer specifically. I didn't read enough to evaluate the strength of the research behind these claims. But if it is true, then that's even more reason why Grunt's protocol should be employed, since it will minimize systemic IGF-1 distribution (and thus exposure in the prostate and colon) while maximizing site-specific muscular benefits.

Personally, my favorite cancer-causing agent is Copenhagen. If only it helped grow muscles... :(

Not an expert on this, just my 2¢.
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TRUE


Cancer cells express IGF-1 within themselves, for internal use, in very high amounts. That is part of their "insanity" if you will. Thus, higher levels of IGF-1 are linked to cancer. Obviously. But there is a difference between IGF-1 created within a cell and IGF-1 coming from the outside and attaching to a receptor on the surface of the cell. Those cells are already more or less bathing in their own autocrine IGF-1.


There is no CONCLUSIVE research proving that IGF-1 on the surface of cancerous cells makes them grow any faster than they already do. And there is no conclusive research that shows that exogenous IGF-1 administration can CAUSE cancer.
Everyone's looking for the cause, but IGF-1 looks more to be a great part of HOW cancer WORKS and not how it is CAUSED.

Most of the evidence on cancer indicates that it comes from damaged DNA. While it is true that IGF-1 increases a cell's lifetime, it also keeps it in good repair. The statement that IGF-1 is cancer-causing is just about false. The (healthy) people with the highest IGF-1 levels are athletes who eat reasonably well and this segment of the population is the one with the lowest risk of cancer. Other factors are much more important you say, such as smoking, stress, poisons, binges? That's my point exactly.

Of course, I will always recommend that those who are at risk of cancer stay away from it as a precaution.
 
Ubiquitous said:
loading BW or NACL is for wussies.. you don't need it.

AA straight up is fine. There's no necrosis after 7mg diluted at 500mcg/ml for me.

That's right, all of you who load BW or NACL into your pin are wussies, and I'm calling you all out... even my man Thunder and my boytoy Grunt.
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Still looking to start stuff you can't handle huh? :bruce1:

I like to add BW after the IGF-1 because that's what I'll be pushing out at the same time as the air bubble, leaving my precious IGF-1 inside the syringe.

Also having something like 30IU of liquid in the barrel makes it easy to divide in two halves for bilateral injection. If you are doing 5 units of liquid, how are you going to divide that in two?

I like having my IGF-1 spread quick and good throughout my muscle tissue, so of course having a larger amount of liquid helps with that.

You can continue to play tough, and I'll just grow more mkay? :twisted:
 
Grunt76 said:
Also having something like 30IU of liquid in the barrel makes it easy to divide in two halves for bilateral injection. If you are doing 5 units of liquid, how are you going to divide that in two?
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You use 2 syringes? one for each side?
 
Grunt76 said:
Still looking to start stuff you can't handle huh? :bruce1:

I like to add BW after the IGF-1 because that's what I'll be pushing out at the same time as the air bubble, leaving my precious IGF-1 inside the syringe.

Also having something like 30IU of liquid in the barrel makes it easy to divide in two halves for bilateral injection. If you are doing 5 units of liquid, how are you going to divide that in two?

I like having my IGF-1 spread quick and good throughout my muscle tissue, so of course having a larger amount of liquid helps with that.

You can continue to play tough, and I'll just grow more mkay? :twisted:
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It's on tough guy!

You make a concentration of 500mcg/ml. If you have to use ONE pin, then that's easy.. 8 units(40mcg)/2= 4 units(20mcg) a side.. easy peasy japanesey... I use two needles regardless, because I'm sterile like that. 4 units a slin pin... bingo, bango.. your mamma does the tango.

Slin pins are designed for near zero dead space, so whatever is left over is the volume in the actual 1/2" 29g pin. negligible.

You're a big smart french wussie, but you're a bro.. brobro.. :twisted:
 
Ubiquitous said:
It's on tough guy!

You make a concentration of 500mcg/ml. If you have to use ONE pin, then that's easy.. 8 units(40mcg)/2= 4 units(20mcg) a side.. easy peasy japanesey... I use two needles regardless, because I'm sterile like that. 4 units a slin pin... bingo, bango.. your mamma does the tango.

Slin pins are designed for near zero dead space, so whatever is left over is the volume in the actual 1/2" 29g pin. negligible.

You're a big smart french wussie, but you're a bro.. brobro.. :twisted:
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LOL and here I thought I was in for a fight. :yawn:

Actually it might be better this way... :run:
 
Ubiquitous said:
It's on tough guy!

You make a concentration of 500mcg/ml. If you have to use ONE pin, then that's easy.. 8 units(40mcg)/2= 4 units(20mcg) a side.. easy peasy japanesey... I use two needles regardless, because I'm sterile like that. 4 units a slin pin... bingo, bango.. your mamma does the tango.

Slin pins are designed for near zero dead space, so whatever is left over is the volume in the actual 1/2" 29g pin. negligible.

You're a big smart french wussie, but you're a bro.. brobro.. :twisted:
Click to expand...


I find two needles better also, since I inject only 2 units each side
 
Ubiquitous said:
loading BW or NACL is for wussies.. you don't need it.

AA straight up is fine. There's no necrosis after 7mg diluted at 500mcg/ml for me.

That's right, all of you who load BW or NACL into your pin are wussies, and I'm calling you all out... even my man Thunder and my boytoy Grunt.
Click to expand...


Ok brother you started it.:bb:
 
I just got finish reading an article that claims it a bad idea to use t3 with igf--its says that the t3 would destroy the newly formed cells from the igf--now Im not sure if its igf there talking about or the lr3 igf --I was wondering if the antibinding protiens in the lr3 would protect it from the t3--what Im trying to do is cut some bodyfat and do some spot muscle growth with the lr3 [BIs/shoulders/ lats] Im already taking a mild anabolic[25mg anavar] to counter the t3 and try to direct to bodyfat instead of muscle loss --do I got it all wrong or what? would I be better using ephedra instead?
 
skull said:
I just got finish reading an article that claims it a bad idea to use t3 with igf--its says that the t3 would destroy the newly formed cells from the igf--now Im not sure if its igf there talking about or the lr3 igf --I was wondering if the antibinding protiens in the lr3 would protect it from the t3--what Im trying to do is cut some bodyfat and do some spot muscle growth with the lr3 [BIs/shoulders/ lats] Im already taking a mild anabolic[25mg anavar] to counter the t3 and try to direct to bodyfat instead of muscle loss --do I got it all wrong or what? would I be better using ephedra instead?
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I feel that that idea about T3 & IGF-1 isn't unwarranted. I wouldn't go so far as saying that for sure that T3 will kill the new baby cells, but there is some evidence that it can do so. The higher the dose, the more likely that effect, of course. It goes for the Long R3 as well as the hIGF-1.

Yes you may run ephedrin or clen or albuterol or any bunch of fatburners with IGF-1 with good results.
 
do any people do anabolic with igf?
like m1t with igf at the same time
or test e with igf?

are resultats better?
 
Grunt76 said:
I feel that that idea about T3 & IGF-1 isn't unwarranted. I wouldn't go so far as saying that for sure that T3 will kill the new baby cells, but there is some evidence that it can do so. The higher the dose, the more likely that effect, of course. It goes for the Long R3 as well as the hIGF-1.

Yes you may run ephedrin or clen or albuterol or any bunch of fatburners with IGF-1 with good results.
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what would you consider a high dose --so I guess the resistance to binding protiens of the LR3 offer no protection from t3
 
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