My P-Plex log

Tue, March 11 - Day 8 of PCT

Bench press 3X8 - 185
Lat pulls 3X8 - 135, 150, 165
Shoulder press - 3X5 135
Leg press - 3X8 225, 315, 405
Hack squats - 3X8 135, 185, 225

First day at 30mg of nolvadex.
 
Thursday, March 13th - Day 10 of PCT

Flat DB Press - 4X6 75, 75, 80, 85
Incline Hammer Press - 1X8 135, 1X6 185, 1X5 215
Tricep pulldowns
Leg Press - light
 
Mon, 3/17 - Day 14 of PCT

Seated military press - 3X6 135
Squats - 3X8 185

Back was feeling great until spring break. Then sleeping on the floor for a week bothered it. It started feeling better the first night I slept in a bed. This workout sucked...I took a pre workout supp that I had a sample of (Noxavol) before working out. In the middle of squats, I went to the bathroom and puked in the trash can...then did a third set of squats and left. Only time I've ever gotten sick in the gym, and I'm 99% sure it was the stuff that I took. A wave of nausea came over me and I had the involuntary urge to throw up. Not fun...
 
Day 16 of PCT
Squats - 2X8 135
Hack squats - 2X8 135
Pull ups - 3X6
Lat pulls - 3X8 120, 135, 150
Curls

Weight - 176

Good workout...light leg day, hit the back pretty hard. I'm not going super heavy any more. Working in the 8-12 rep range. I could go heavier, but I'm focusing on form now. I haven't lost any size since the end of the cycle, I don't think...I may have added some. My diet has been screwed up for the past two weeks. I am back to normal now. I'm going to reduce calories slightly and start doing cardio to get rid of a few unwanted lbs.
 
I say stay cautious with cutting cals and adding cardio at this point. This is that "gray zone" where it's tough to keep lean mass gains.

Also, if you add your AI and cort control (I used Hyperdrol and Lean Extreme this time), you're bodyfat will start to drop a bit and you'll harden up.
 
Sounds good. I will just hang where I am right now. I'm taking in my maintenance calories right now...or maybe a little more. Bought some ATD today, but left it at work. I am going to just supplement with vitamin C for cortisol. I will start taking that tomorrow. Can't wait to be done with PCT.
 
Day 18 of PCT

Squats - 3X12 185, 205, 225
Bench press - 3X8 185, 190, 195
T-Bar Rows - 3X8 80
Arnolds - 2X8, 1X12 55, 60, 45

Damn, this higher rep stuff is KILLING me. I didn't know whether to puke or pass out. Part of the problem is that all I had upon waking (right before going to the gym) was a serving of Freak Fix (aka ****..it was a free sample) with 30g of malto. I've never crashed so hard during a workout..it was awful. Afterwards, I went to a burger place and got a baked potato, strawberry cobbler w/ a scoop of vanilla ice cream, and a burger (only ate the meat). I was shaking so bad I couldn't eat for 5 minutes. Oh well...hopefully Monday will be better.

Started Novedex last night. Also taking vitamin C around my workouts. And whenever else I get hungry for them. At 20mg of nolva right now. Can't wait to be done with it.
 
BrMe86 said:
Squats - 3X12 185, 205, 225
Bench press - 3X8 185, 190, 195
T-Bar Rows - 3X8 80
Arnolds - 2X8, 1X12 55, 60, 45

Damn, this higher rep stuff is KILLING me. I didn't know whether to puke or pass out. Part of the problem is that all I had upon waking (right before going to the gym) was a serving of Freak Fix (aka ****..it was a free sample) with 30g of malto. I've never crashed so hard during a workout..it was awful. Afterwards, I went to a burger place and got a baked potato, strawberry cobbler w/ a scoop of vanilla ice cream, and a burger (only ate the meat). I was shaking so bad I couldn't eat for 5 minutes. Oh well...hopefully Monday will be better.

Started Novedex last night. Also taking vitamin C around my workouts. And whenever else I get hungry for them. At 20mg of nolva right now. Can't wait to be done with it.
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quick question on the p-plex... did you take all 30 mg at once or did you spread it throughout the day?
 
celc5 said:
I say stay cautious with cutting cals and adding cardio at this point. This is that "gray zone" where it's tough to keep lean mass gains.

Also, if you add your AI and cort control (I used Hyperdrol and Lean Extreme this time), you're bodyfat will start to drop a bit and you'll harden up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'll second everything Celc said.
 
Thanks DB. It has been absolutely awesome getting this feedback from you and Celc. It is much appreciated. The cycle wouldn't have been as good without you guys...(quality AND peace of mind)

Monday 3/24 - Day 21 of PCT
Standing shoulder press - 3X8 115
Squats - 3X8 205
Bench Press - ???

I went home for the weekend. Hate hate hate the bench there. My feet barely reach the floor when doing bench press and I'm 5'9". Impossible to get any kind of leverage. I went through my warmup and did a lot of singles & doubles with 185 and 190. It felt more like 210-215.
 
My weight/size has been the pretty much the same. If I have lost any weight, then it hasn't been more than 2 lbs. Strength is still up. Workouts are great...not quite the same as when I was on cycle...now I feel a little more human. (soreness, stress, longer recovery) Overall, I haven't had much of a change. It's hard to gauge if I've been progressing the past two weeks because I've had an irregular routine, but I think I'm doing fine. I will have a long write up at the end of my first post when the cycle is over.
 
Bench press - 1X6, 1X8, 1X6 185
Pull ups - 2X7
Lat pulls - 1X8 120, 2X8 135
Flat DB press - 2X8 70, 75
Squats - 3X12 205, 225, 245
Arnolds - 3X8 55
Deadlifts - 1X8 225

Weight - 173

I realized today that I have lost a lot of strength. Inconsistency with my workout schedule is why. Pisses me off...I am going to make it to the gym no matter what from now on...even if it means getting up at 5:30 and going. I hope I will gain the strength back quickly. The diet has been mediocre when I'm away from home, but it's spot on when I'm here.

I combined Wednesday's workout with Friday. Super high volume for me. I ate decently...1.5 cups of whole grain cereal, and 1/3 of a cup of yogurt an hour before going to the gym. Then I had an electrolyte drink with 10g of BCAAs mixed in while I worked out. Then a shake with 50g of protein and 80g of sugar right after. Then some chicken 30 min later. And I will have steak, pasta, and broccoli in an hour. And eat twice more after that. Can't keep losing strength and weight like this...
 
SpargelJanusz said:
BrMe,

"can this be true" is what I wondered when I read your
Phera-log. How can anyone be so "smart" to use steroids when being in such a lousy shape like you?

Your stats should have had more than enough room for natural gains.

Do you honestly believe with a shitty attitude like yours,
you'll ever get a great physique?

A 5 x 180 lbs bencher who juices. Just sad.
Click to expand...

**** you.

Ok, now that that's out of the way I'll respond to the rest of your comments.

"can this be true" is what I wondered when I read your
Phera-log. How can anyone be so "smart" to use steroids when being in such a lousy shape like you?
Click to expand...
I have no doubt that I'm in better shape than yourself. Pound for pound, at my height, I have only met a couple of people in my life that are in better shape. I'm talking about outside of the weight room also. At 175lbs, is a 385lb deadlift, 365lb squat, 235lb bench press, 175lb shoulder press, and a sub 6 minute mile lousy shape?

Your stats should have had more than enough room for natural gains.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. I don't see myself running another cycle for a long time. It wasn't worth the time, money, and possible long term side effects IMO.

Do you honestly believe with a shitty attitude like yours,
you'll ever get a great physique?
Click to expand...
I have a great attitude. I had put on a little over 25lbs naturally before starting the cycle. My diet, training, and dedication are great. Who are you to say who is allowed or not allowed to run a cycle of a PH?

A 5 x 180 lbs bencher who juices. Just sad.
Click to expand...
That's one of the reasons I decided to run the cycle. My bench press is horrible. I've been plagued with shoulder and back problems which is why my numbers aren't higher.

What was your point in sending the ill-prepared message, you arrogant prick?
Click to expand...

This really pissed me off...just got this message and responded to it. So if anyone else is reading the log and having the same thoughts as this guy, hopefully this will address some of your concerns.
 
BrMe86 said:
Can't keep losing strength and weight like this...
Click to expand...

No you can't. I'm not sure why I missed the post regarding vitamin C for cortisol. While it's probably a good thing to take, I haven't found it particularly useful for gaining or maintaining strength. Maybe continue go with a better cortisol control for the entire 4 weeks, maybe taper off on weeks 4,5 and 6, and keep your BCAA's a little higher, too.

Hopefully, your weight and strength will level off or maybe rebound some when you get consistant. It's unlikely you'll keep all of it, else everyone here would look like pro's. But if you're a hard gainer, anything that goes wrong is gonna cause you to loose especially during PCT. I lost some weight/strength at the beginning of mine but gained enough back to make me happy. I made a few of my own mistakes, I'm still learning, too.
 
BrMe,
I change EVERY SINGLE EXERCISE in pct. Nothing is the same. Strength loss is inevidable in post cycle and seeing numbers drop can be psychologically detrimental. I'd take a day or 2 off to completely revamp your routine. If you'd like, post your on-cycle split (number or sets and reps, but not weights) and I'd be glad to help point you in the right direction.

Was that a pm? I'm a prick and wouldn't hesitate to call someone out if their attitude and cycle plan were poor. Unless there's something I missed between you and the irritated person, it looks uncalled for. I thought you ran a nice cycle.

I had a dislocated shoulder and reconstructed elbow so those injuries effect my bench drastically and I rarely work with more than 220. If you just look at that number, most would think I was out of shape until they saw me rep out with 5 plates on squats and deadlifts. In one ear and out the other my friend :cheers:
 
Thanks Celc. Yeah, that was a PM. Oh well.
On cycle routine:
Mon
Squats - 5X5 (same weight)
Bench - 5X5
Rows - 5X5
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Wed
Deadlifts - 5X3
Squats @ 80% - 5X5
Pull ups - 5X5
Shoulder press - 5X5
Biceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Fri
Squats - 5X5 (ramp weight)
Bench - 5X5
Rows - 5X5
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Here is my new workout that I started...a week or two ago:
Mon
Military press - 3X8
Flat DB press - 3X8
Squats - 4X8
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Wed
Pull ups - 3Xmax
Lat Pulls - 3X8
Shrugs - 3X10
Deadlifts - 4X8
Biceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Fri
Bench press - 3X8
Arnolds - 3X8
Rows - 4X8
Squats - 3X12
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

I'm still in the process of getting things figured out. I am going to change some of the exercises still, I think. The biggest change has been rep ranges, obviously. What would you recommend that I do different?
 
A few fun ideas would go like this:

1) 5/10/15 split
3sets of 5
3 sets of 10
3 sets of 15

Moves at 5 & 10 are compound, isolation at 15.

2) 8/12 split
Compound move at 8
Isolation move at 12
*2 bodyparts per day

3) HST in it's strictest sense

4) Light/Heavy
M All push x 15
T All pull x 15
Th All push x 8
F All pull x 8

*push= chest, shoulders, tris, quads, calves
*pull=back, lats, hams, core

You seem to have heavy influence from 5x5 and maybe HIT?Both seem to lack a "fun" element though IMO. The exercise choice is uncreative so to speak. Get yourself a good pump at the end of the routine to boost morale. Don't let the post cycle blues win.
 
Yeah, I liked the 5X5. The gains that I have gotten from it have been great. That's why I decided to change the rep ranges. I thought I could still squeeze a little out of it. The other program that I alternate with is the light/heavy. So many people just change programs as soon as they slow down. Instead of changing exercises, rep ranges, frequency, etc. I don't want to be one of those people. That said, I agree...I think I'm close to the point where I need to change for at least a little while. I will be able to progress with bench press and rows for probably another week. And all of the other lifts I should be able to progress with for at least two weeks. So I'll probably change sometime next week or start the following week with the light/heavy. I love the big compound lifts. I might try doing some olympic style lifts.
 
I never was nor am I a prick. And hopefully won't become one. As I wrote in the PM, I just find it amazing how steroids seem to become the preferred route for people who have very average stats, and should have quite some potential as naturals. What's equally amazing is how
no one seemed to comment on this issue - as if it's totally o.k. to juice on this level.

And I stand by what I said - this is a lousy attitude, nothing more. Came I across as arrogant? Hardly, I think, as
described myself as "mediocrly built" in another PM - and knowing my genes, I will never have a superb physique. I also am quite old,
as you see on my photo.

Are you guys realizing that Pheraplex is a designer roid with little or no research about long-term, damaging effects?
Are you really so naive to think that PCT is the magic method that makes steroids comparable to vitamin pills in their potential danger?

I am waiting for the flatbench 1RM 170 lbs bencher who will log his first cycle here, it's probably only a matter of time.
I hope he has his PCT worked out:rofl:
 
No one commented on the user choosing to run a cycle in a negative manner, as you suggest we should, because he had a well thought out plan. He chose informed dosage, ran a proper PCT, and has a solid base with his workout routine and diet.

The type of flaming you just did (both privately AND publicly now) is reserved for over-zealous persons with dangerous and uninformed plans.

Yes we're all aware that phera is a designer steriod and it's rediculous to suggest that we believe that post cycle therapy makes it as safe as vitamins. That sounds like anti-steroid propaganda that you read in a newspaper article or heard on the 11 o'clock news.

Your ignorant posts show me that everyone in this thread is more educated on the topic than you so butt out you old out of shape man. I hope you're embarrassed that you have nothing better to do than single someone out who is using a good plan with a legal compound.
 
celc5 got it right

celc5 said:
No one commented on the user choosing to run a cycle in a negative manner, as you suggest we should, because he had a well thought out plan. He chose informed dosage, ran a proper PCT, and has a solid base with his workout routine and diet.

The type of flaming you just did (both privately AND publicly now) is reserved for over-zealous persons with dangerous and uninformed plans.

Yes we're all aware that phera is a designer steriod and it's rediculous to suggest that we believe that post cycle therapy makes it as safe as vitamins. That sounds like anti-steroid propaganda that you read in a newspaper article or heard on the 11 o'clock news.

Your ignorant posts show me that everyone in this thread is more educated on the topic than you so butt out you old out of shape man. I hope you're embarrassed that you have nothing better to do than single someone out who is using a good plan with a legal compound.
Click to expand...

:clap2::clap2::clap2: I'm heavily embarassed
Yes, the good plan with the LEGAL compound really should have prohibited me from saying most basic stuff. (I mean, it being legal, there cannot be to much harm to it, can it)
I'm sorry for my anti-steroid propaganda, you guys (being professors, PhD in biology, medicine etc) know your stuff.

So hail to all future 5 x 180lbs benchers who have a good plan - juice! And juice some more!

And ignore out-of-shape old men like me who are ignorant and dare to criticize what is currently going on in gyms and encouraged in certain threads.:toofunny:
 
I just hate that he's clustering up my log. I quit paying much attention to what he was writing after the first message. He definitely is a prick though...otherwise he wouldn't have sent the original message. There has been nothing constructive at all. He first stated that he had to send me a message with all of that because he needed to let off some steam...very immature. Seems to be the kind of thing a prick might do. And all of his replies have been wasted space. Just one uninformed guy's opinions. Talking down because people don't have PhDs in biology...that's stupid. A lot of the guys on the board with over 1,000 posts know more about steroids and their effects than anybody with a PhD in biology because they study and do their own research. A PhD doesn't mean **** in this case. It just blows my mind that people are so ignorant. Please, quit trying to argue with people; there is no point...you will get nowhere.
 
Mon - Heavy
DB press 4X8
Rows 4X8
Lat pulls 4X8
Shrugs 4X12
Bi/tri
cardio

Tue - Light
SL deadlift - week a 4X8
OH Squats - week b 4X8
Calve raises 10X10
Hyper extensions
Abs
cardio

Thur - Light
Push press 4X8
Front/side raises
Rotator cuff
Dips
Abs
cardio

Fri - Heavy
Squats - week a 6X?, 1X20
Deadlift - week b 6X8
GH raises
Abs

I'm going to give this a go for a little while. Lower back still isn't very strong. That's why I'm not doing 5X5 on squats. I'm liking the higher reps anyway. Doing a lot of volume on squats/deads on Friday because that's probably the only lift I'll do that day. I might add in leg press if I feel like it Friday. We'll see how it goes after this week anyway. I might need to change one or two things around. There are some quirks with the workout, but most of them are what I've found works for me. The biggest thing I'm working on figuring out is how much volume I can handle.
 
I won't cluster up this thread anymore, just realize that I wasted too much time and space to bring across a very simple, and certainly not immature message:

It's devastating to realize - this log being exemplary of countless others - on what level of physical development juicing is beginning to get common. It's equally devastating to realize that products of which the side effects, and possible long-term sides are unknown are promoted, based on recommendations by "guys who did their own research".

I must have been heavily mistaken when I thought building one's body is primarily an issue of health, and maintaining and improving it.
 
Kinda, yes, no. Just depends on the person. For me it was pretty neutral. Most people have relatively dry gains although it is touted as a wet compound.
 
celc5 said:
There's 2 cases of SUPPOSED delayed gyno that have popped up after p-plex cycles here on AM that I am aware of. (I say "supposed" because I think there's too much gyno talk every time someone gets an imaginary tingle here and there). Anyway, I agree with DBin that a little bit of Nolva couldn't hurt in terms of prevention. I'm thinking something like 20/20/10/10 would suffice.

Personally, I'd run an otc AI alongside at a moderate dose. I'd either start it day 1 of post cycle and run it for 6 weeks... OR start it week 2 or 3 to run it for 4 weeks. AI strategies will vary drastically so this is just one option and there's probably no conclusively correct way to go.
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I guess Ill be your 3rd case of delayed gyno on P-plex(the real lump behind nipple gyno). I ran ATD and nolva 40/40/20/20 for PCT. I think my problem was that I ran ATD and nolva inversely.

This is why Im going to add a low dose AI EOD while ON next time. My gains were just to insane, better than SD, to not use the rest of my bottle. Oh and after Letro and finally the first week of Havoc it disappeared, for the most part.
 
So you only ran PCT for 4 weeks? I ended up running the Nolva at 40/30/20/10 and on the third week, I started taking the ATD and ramped it up for 3 weeks. Overall, the PCT lasted 6 weeks. And I stayed on AX for 5-6 weeks. Can't remember exactly. My buddy took Nolva for 3 weeks 40/30/20, decided he didn't need it any more, and then started lactating about two weeks later. So then he ran the Nolva for 2-3 more weeks at 20mg. That was his own fault though...if he had listened to me and run the same PCT I did, then he wouldn't have had a problem.

Why do you think that running nolva & atd inversely caused your gyno??? Have you considered doing a bridge during your next cycle? P-plex into Epi?
 
BrMe86 said:
So you only ran PCT for 4 weeks? I ended up running the Nolva at 40/30/20/10 and on the third week, I started taking the ATD and ramped it up for 3 weeks. Overall, the PCT lasted 6 weeks. And I stayed on AX for 5-6 weeks. Can't remember exactly. My buddy took Nolva for 3 weeks 40/30/20, decided he didn't need it any more, and then started lactating about two weeks later. So then he ran the Nolva for 2-3 more weeks at 20mg. That was his own fault though...if he had listened to me and run the same PCT I did, then he wouldn't have had a problem.

Why do you think that running nolva & atd inversely caused your gyno??? Have you considered doing a bridge during your next cycle? P-plex into Epi?
Click to expand...


Actually looks like your friend had a prolactin issue, with the lactating. But I think I should have tapered back down with the ATD, even though it is a suicidal AI so it shouldn't cause a rebound anyways(which I don't understand why).

It was my first cycle, so I guess I found out how my body reacts. My next cycle is 7 weeks of a p-plex/m-drol bridge(like bassgod's), which Im pretty stoked about. My current Epi ED/SD pulse that Im on is/was really not impressive in the slightest.

But from now on Im just going to run low dose AI EOD while ON and torem in PCT. And I have a sh!t load of nolva if gyno pops it's ugly head up again. I also think I didnt treat it quick enough. It was my first time and it was a different sensation (haha sounds funny out of context...)
 
A few things to consider for those with issues:

1) If your nolva was a research chem, you're not positive it was good stuff. I rarely hear of lumps when a real deal serm is used (regardless of choice).

2) Even though ATD is supposedly suicidal, I've come a cross quite a few claims on the boards where there sounded like there was some sort of rebound when a taper wasn't employed. There's also a few of these with 6oxo. I can't say heard anyone complain of rebound with 6bromo or formestane though.

3) I had some abnormal sensations for a long time after phera. But I ran a low dose serm for 4 weeks and moderate dosed AI for about 6 weeks. I think the extra 2 weeks of the AI was worth a lot in terms of prevention.
 
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