My basic 10 week epiandro - with updates for interested parties

[BritCitFutsie]

Hi folks.
Shortly after Christmas (don't want cycle to overlap with any Christmas drinking) I will be starting an Epiandro only cycle for (depending) 10 weeks. For reference am 41 and currently lifting for increasing strength rather than muscle gains though a little fat loss would be welcome if it doesn't sacrifice strength.
Am trying to keep it simple and am currently planning on:

1 Week - 300mg Epiandro
5 weeks (weeks 2-6) - 600mg Epiandro
4 weeks (weeks 7-10) - 900mg or 600mg Epiandro (depends how it's going, risk/reward etc)

CEL cycle assist
+ SNS Inhibit-P Throughout.

Then
CEL M-Test, SNS Inhibit-E, Inhibit-P

[Note: The inhibit-P I take consistently recently as around half a year ago after a previous cycle had a private blood test showing some freakishly high prolactin... Some time on inhibit-P and the next (NHS) Blood test showed prolactin fine.. so either first test was BS or inhibit-P works amazingly for me, either way I'm keeping it around]

Anyway, it's probably not a hugely exciting cycle but posting it in case anyone has thoughts.
Thanks, and merry Christmas to you all and your families.

 

[Joshlm69]

I would add CEL Clomaplex instead of Inhibit-E for your PCT at 4-8 weeks, really great stuff for optmizing your test/e2 ratio and gives you a huge boost in libido/erectile function instantaneously while making you feel great daily.
Epiandro at 900 (only at 900, not 600) actually seemed to hurt my sex drive/sex function, not massively but i noticed it). Clomaplex fixed that from day 2 in PCT

 

[BritCitFutsie]

I would add CEL Clomaplex instead of Inhibit-E for your PCT at 4-8 weeks, really great stuff for optmizing your test/e2 ratio and gives you a huge boost in libido/erectile function instantaneously while making you feel great daily.
Epiandro at 900 (only at 900, not 600) actually seemed to hurt my sex drive/sex function, not massively but i noticed it). Clomaplex fixed that from day 2 in PCT

Thanks, so if I understand that right you suggest 3-4 weeks of pct that is as above (M-Test, inhibit-P, Inhibit-E), but then after the 4 weeks swap Inhibit-E for clomaplex?.can I ask what the logic is in delaying it like that, I mean if it was so effective why wait 4 weeks why not start it at the beginning of pct? Cheers

 

[Joshlm69]

No im saying to use Clomaplex instead of Inhibit-E, I think you’ll benefit more from its comprehensive label.

Weeks 1-8 M-Test, Clomaplex & Inhibit-P. Can run the Inhibit-E after the 8 weeks are up if you’re trying to tighten up a bit more

 

[BritCitFutsie]

No im saying to use Clomaplex instead of Inhibit-E, I think you’ll benefit more from its comprehensive label.

Weeks 1-8 M-Test, Clomaplex & Inhibit-P. Can run the Inhibit-E after the 8 weeks are up if you’re trying to tighten up a bit more

Ah I see what you mean. Ok yea I would still use the Inhibit-E then or later as I already have it! Cheers

 

[Joshlm69]

Ah I see what you mean. Ok yea I would still use the Inhibit-E then or later as I already have it! Cheers

Remember epiandro can potentially cause a little suppression at 900, and if that’s the case, clomaplex is an OTC version of clomid without the negative sides, so it would help you recover quicker. I never had any suppression myself but it differs person to person.

@sns8778 can probably advise better than I.

 

[CorpKiller]

Height, weight? Thanks

 

[CorpKiller]

Also, do you know your lipids? I’d be curious to see how it affects your cholesterol levels, etc…

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Also, do you know your lipids? I’d be curious to see how it affects your cholesterol levels, etc…

Hi - no I don't actually... All previous tests have been hormone checks only (a few private and one NHS)

[I do monitor my blood pressure particularly on cycle but no not lipids ]

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Height, weight? Thanks

6'0 and 93kg (205lb)

 

[CorpKiller]

Thanks, just wondering.
Looking forward to your updates.

 

[AwakeningAlpha]

Interested to see your results! Am I assuming correctly that you are not on TRT or anything?

I have been considering an Epiandro only run (sub 900) and am not on TRT - but wondering if running low dose enclo throughout, or 1 or 4 andro as well, would be better.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Interested to see your results! Am I assuming correctly that you are not on TRT or anything?

I have been considering an Epiandro only run (sub 900) and am not on TRT - but wondering if running low dose enclo throughout, or 1 or 4 andro as well, would be better.

You assume correctly! No TRT.
The 900mg weeks are not definite I will see how 600mg has been going, might just keep it at 600. I no longer currently have access to non-OTC products so I am not inclined to take unnecessary risks.. recognising that any PH cycle contains risk, there's levels I'm sure.
Cheers. Couple of guys have expressed interest in how it goes so I will be sure to add here some updates when it's in progress and afterwards

 

[Joshlm69]

Interested to see your results! Am I assuming correctly that you are not on TRT or anything?

I have been considering an Epiandro only run (sub 900) and am not on TRT - but wondering if running low dose enclo throughout, or 1 or 4 andro as well, would be better.

I'd stay away from enclo as a rule of thumb, nasty sides.

1-andro (or 1-test if you can get it) will give you much more gains, but youll encounter lethargy, loss of libido, hair loss if youre prone to it). You'll most likely also have to do a proper PCT of nolva after also.

4-andro TD will give you a little more boost, although you add 4-andro to combat the effects of shutdown, which isn't needed on Epiandro.

 

[sns8778]

You assume correctly! No TRT.
The 900mg weeks are not definite I will see how 600mg has been going, might just keep it at 600. I no longer currently have access to non-OTC products so I am not inclined to take unnecessary risks.. recognising that any PH cycle contains risk, there's levels I'm sure.
Cheers. Couple of guys have expressed interest in how it goes so I will be sure to add here some updates when it's in progress and afterwards

I like the way you're approaching it as 900 mg.'s being a maybe.

I've found personally that 600 mg. gives me good results and that I feel better on 600 mg; 900 mg. I may get slightly better results, but I lose the feel good aspects of it.

One suggestion I would make is that if you do decide to do 900 mg., to do it in the middle and not the end - like do 600 mg. for a few weeks, 900 mg. for a few weeks, then back down to 600 mg for a week or two - that way when you come off, you're not just straight stopping from a high dose.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

I like the way you're approaching it as 900 mg.'s being a maybe.

I've found personally that 600 mg. gives me good results and that I feel better on 600 mg; 900 mg. I may get slightly better results, but I lose the feel good aspects of it.

One suggestion I would make is that if you do decide to do 900 mg., to do it in the middle and not the end - like do 600 mg. for a few weeks, 900 mg. for a few weeks, then back down to 600 mg for a week or two - that way when you come off, you're not just straight stopping from a high dose.

Thanks - yea I am humble enough to admit I am not an expert in these matters! so I read around on here for what people are doing and 600-900 seems like the sweet spot for most, I think I have read some of your own posts on the subject.
On balance I will probably keep it at 600 but I have enough to go to 900 if I wish... But that'll probably only be if I feel 600 has been no use. I note your suggestion about doing it in the middle not the end if I do! On balance, without non-otc pct products on hand and with proposed 10 weeks being moderately long* I am not minded to add further risks unless it seems really compelling.

Do you have any thoughts on the point raised earlier by Josh about Inhibit-E v Clomaplex for the pct? Cheers


*Moderately long compared to other cycles I have run myself, not necessarily compared to what other guys have done

 

[Dustin07]

1 Week - 300mg Epiandro
5 weeks (weeks 2-6) - 600mg Epiandro
4 weeks (weeks 7-10) - 900mg or 600mg Epiandro (depends how it's going, risk/reward etc)

I've found personally that 600 mg. gives me good results and that I feel better on 600 mg; 900 mg. I may get slightly better results, but I lose the feel good aspects of it.

I agree with Steve, although @BritCitFutsie I didn't catch if you are running it orally or as a TD, I assume orally since most capsules are dosed at 300mg and TDs vary with like 75mg+ per pump.

I will sprinkle in 1 cap here and there off cycle to combat the blues when my mental state is hammered. 600mg is definitely a sweet spot where I believe I'm gaining the hypertrophic and recovery benefits without severe sides. My current and last cycle I tended to run more like 900-1150mg as a combo of oral and TD. usually the higher dose on hard training days. today for instance I hit 2 caps of stanoplex and 2 pumps xpg epiandro in the morning. when my dose gets very high I'm more susceptible to anxiety and a shorter fuse in bad traffic. zero sexual side effects though other than waking up pitching a massive tent every morning around 3am.

I've used most of those PCT's you mentioned but generally speaking the one I notice the best is XPG Alpha Gel, and it always seems to be plenty for me. When I finish up I'll be running M Test and Anabolic Effect or Anabolic XT.

I see fantastic lean mass gains on epiandro and increase in size, but my strength gains ironically tend to come with anabolic XT, Most of my PRs the past two years have actually been on the natty product, not on the PED.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

I agree with Steve, although @BritCitFutsie I didn't catch if you are running it orally or as a TD, I assume orally since most capsules are dosed at 300mg and TDs vary with like 75mg+ per pump.

....

I see fantastic lean mass gains on epiandro and increase in size, but my strength gains ironically tend to come with anabolic XT, Most of my PRs the past two years have actually been on the natty product, not on the PED.

Thanks Dustin. Yes it's Oral, muscle addiction Epiandro300. That's interesting what you observe about your gains. I've not used anabolic xt before, sounds like one to try.

 

[sns8778]

Thanks - yea I am humble enough to admit I am not an expert in these matters! so I read around on here for what people are doing and 600-900 seems like the sweet spot for most, I think I have read some of your own posts on the subject.
On balance I will probably keep it at 600 but I have enough to go to 900 if I wish... But that'll probably only be if I feel 600 has been no use. I note your suggestion about doing it in the middle not the end if I do! On balance, without non-otc pct products on hand and with proposed 10 weeks being moderately long* I am not minded to add further risks unless it seems really compelling.

Do you have any thoughts on the point raised earlier by Josh about Inhibit-E v Clomaplex for the pct? Cheers


*Moderately long compared to other cycles I have run myself, not necessarily compared to what other guys have done

Inhibit-E and Cloma-Plex are both great products and either of them would be great for your PCT.

The biggest difference is that Inhibit-E is for estrogen control and promoting an optimal testosterone to estrogen ratio, whereas Cloma-Plex helps with estrogen control and also has natural testosterone boosting and natural anabolic ingredients all in one product.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Inhibit-E and Cloma-Plex are both great products and either of them would be great for your PCT.

The biggest difference is that Inhibit-E is for estrogen control and promoting an optimal testosterone to estrogen ratio, whereas Cloma-Plex helps with estrogen control and also has natural testosterone boosting and natural anabolic ingredients all in one product.

Thanks

 

[Dustin07]

Thanks Dustin. Yes it's Oral, muscle addiction Epiandro300. That's interesting what you observe about your gains. I've not used anabolic xt before, sounds like one to try.

You're on a good product, IMO. But yeah for natty, anabolic effect and anabolic xt have both been to to me. If you decide to give them a run, buy a minimum 2 month supply out of the gate. You'll see the progress around week 3 usually.

 

[Haterank74]

I like the way you're approaching it as 900 mg.'s being a maybe.

I've found personally that 600 mg. gives me good results and that I feel better on 600 mg; 900 mg. I may get slightly better results, but I lose the feel good aspects of it.

One suggestion I would make is that if you do decide to do 900 mg., to do it in the middle and not the end - like do 600 mg. for a few weeks, 900 mg. for a few weeks, then back down to 600 mg for a week or two - that way when you come off, you're not just straight stopping from a high dose.

def like this approach and will taper myslef also

 

[LeanEngineer]

You're on a good product, IMO. But yeah for natty, anabolic effect and anabolic xt have both been to to me. If you decide to give them a run, buy a minimum 2 month supply out of the gate. You'll see the progress around week 3 usually.

Definitely would agree with this. We carry both products at Strong Supplement Shop to. Can't go wrong with either of them.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Hi folks - trying here rather than a new thread.. but does anyone know if Epiandro can cause cramps? I begin this cycle as planned just after Christmas, currently on 600mg, but I notice so many niggles and aches and pains and cramps more than normal...
For example my hamstring has felt weird since squats over a week ago... So today after deadlifts to avoid overtaxing my hamstrings I swapped SLDLs for some pull-ups... And was then getting intense forearm muscle cramps!
Just wondering if this is a thing or if I'm just falling apart. Cheers

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Update at start of week 3.
So I began supplementing with extra magnesium and also taurine and I think at least 1 of them is helping as I haven't noticed as much cramping recently so that is good.

It is the start of week 3 of this cycle and I'm on 600mg. I am keeping calories relatively low for me - below 2100 per day - in the hope of shifting some chub while not losing any strength. This is a pretty new thing for me I've never really counted calories or tried to cut at all as I was naturally always very skinny and small framed - I was 6 foot and below 140lb at age 20! But now at 41 it's a different story and I could do with shedding a few lb I think.

My impression of the Epiandro at 600mg so far is positive and mild - perhaps as expected - I have noticed 0 negative side effects aside from slightly off smelling wee (normal colour just slightly different smell sometimes), blood pressure absolutely stable so far... Strength is not increasing much but it is not declining due to lower calories either. Weight isn't increasing but isn't falling much either yet though at the end of week 2 I appreciate this is still early days.

I am wondering about seeing this week 3 through at 600mg and then perhaps trying 900mg from week 4 and if I tolerate it, sticking with that for maybe 5 weeks and then going to the final 2 weeks back at 600mg to taper down. Any thoughts on that please let me know.

 

[Dustin07]

but does anyone know if Epiandro can cause cramps?

side effects aside from slightly off smelling wee

both might be dehydration? My wife keeps a 1 gallon jug of salt water in the fridge at all times so we can always reach for it and we tend to burn through it pretty fast. sometimes I'll add a shot of cranberry juice to a glass of it to help taste.

I am wondering about seeing this week 3 through at 600mg and then perhaps trying 900mg from week 4 and if I tolerate it, sticking with that for maybe 5 weeks and then going to the final 2 weeks back at 600mg to taper down. Any thoughts on that please let me know.

as Steve mentioned, 900mg+ does tend to be a tipping point for me as well. You might start with 900mg only on training days. But at 900mg+ is where I will start to notice an increase in irritiability, hair shedding and anxiety etc.

 

[CorpKiller]

both might be dehydration? My wife keeps a 1 gallon jug of salt water in the fridge at all times so we can always reach for it and we tend to burn through it pretty fast. sometimes I'll add a shot of cranberry juice to a glass of it to help taste.

as Steve mentioned, 900mg+ does tend to be a tipping point for me as well. You might start with 900mg only on training days. But at 900mg+ is where I will start to notice an increase in irritiability, hair shedding and anxiety etc.

Isn’t saltwater harsh on the kidneys? Do you have a specific formula)

 

[Joshlm69]

I have a glass of water every morning with pink Himalayan salt, I'm sure Dustin isn't using normal salt

 

[BritCitFutsie]

both might be dehydration? My wife keeps a 1 gallon jug of salt water in the fridge at all times so we can always reach for it and we tend to burn through it pretty fast. sometimes I'll add a shot of cranberry juice to a glass of it to help taste.

as Steve mentioned, 900mg+ does tend to be a tipping point for me as well. You might start with 900mg only on training days. But at 900mg+ is where I will start to notice an increase in irritiability, hair shedding and anxiety etc.

Thanks - I hope it wouldn't be dehydration I'd say I get 3-4L or more each day

 

[Dustin07]

Isn’t saltwater harsh on the kidneys? Do you have a specific formula)

I have a glass of water every morning with pink Himalayan salt, I'm sure Dustin isn't using normal salt

IDK the exact formula my wife uses, she got it from her nutritional coach last spring and so we've kept a gallon premixed in the fridge at all times and I take a swig when thirsty, sometimes before bed or when I first wake up to kick things off with a shot of cranberry.

 

[Teo30gym]

It is interesting to hear about further results

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Update after 5 (nearly 6) weeks.
I feel normal, maybe a little hornier than normal but nothing crazy.
No discernable side effects.
I've been keeping calories relatively low (1600-1900) but protein high (200g/day) and trying to lose a little chub and so far I'm down 4kg (9lb).
Strength is OK it hasn't risen by anything substantial but it hasn't fallen either, I'd say I'm progressing fairly normally which maybe a good result while I'm also dieting.
Tonight and Saturday I am going to treat myself to 1 strong beer both nights, other than that I've had 0 alcohol since Christmas.
Overall it feels like a useful product for this current purpose, nothing extreme but then I wasn't expecting extreme.

 

[gphagan1]

Update after 5 (nearly 6) weeks.
I feel normal, maybe a little hornier than normal but nothing crazy.
No discernable side effects.
I've been keeping calories relatively low (1600-1900) but protein high (200g/day) and trying to lose a little chub and so far I'm down 4kg (9lb).
Strength is OK it hasn't risen by anything substantial but it hasn't fallen either, I'd say I'm progressing fairly normally which maybe a good result while I'm also dieting.
Tonight and Saturday I am going to treat myself to 1 strong beer both nights, other than that I've had 0 alcohol since Christmas.
Overall it feels like a useful product for this current purpose, nothing extreme but then I wasn't expecting extreme.

If you’ve dropped 9 lbs without losing strength, then that’s a win in my book. Sounds like Epiandro is doing exactly what you needed. It is mild, but it definitely gives some positives, as far as feeling good, helps sustain muscle in a cut, within reason, and stacks good with TRT as long as people are reasonable with expectations.

 

[gphagan1]

And I think guys have given you good advice on some of the natural anabolics that SNS has…..you should give them a shot. Especially if you’re not wanting to go with stronger anabolics….I’ve heard nothing but good results from all his products. @Dustin07 has tried a lot of the natural anabolics and could give you some good advice, and obviously Steve with @sns8778 could tell you all you need to know. He’s very knowledgeable and helpful.

 

[beefyfan]

I'd stay away from enclo as a rule of thumb, nasty sides.

1-andro (or 1-test if you can get it) will give you much more gains, but youll encounter lethargy, loss of libido, hair loss if youre prone to it). You'll most likely also have to do a proper PCT of nolva after also.

4-andro TD will give you a little more boost, although you add 4-andro to combat the effects of shutdown, which isn't needed on Epiandro.

Curious to hear more about your issues with enclomiphene. Respectfully.

 

[Joshlm69]

Curious to hear more about your issues with enclomiphene. Respectfully.

Gave me, and many others, limp dick. Yes your testosterone goes up but that seems pretty useless when your dick doesn’t work. I also had vision issues (floaters) and regular headaches.

 

[Dustin07]

Update after 5 (nearly 6) weeks.
I feel normal, maybe a little hornier than normal but nothing crazy.
No discernable side effects.
I've been keeping calories relatively low (1600-1900) but protein high (200g/day) and trying to lose a little chub and so far I'm down 4kg (9lb).
Strength is OK it hasn't risen by anything substantial but it hasn't fallen either, I'd say I'm progressing fairly normally which maybe a good result while I'm also dieting.

If you’ve dropped 9 lbs without losing strength, then that’s a win in my book. Sounds like Epiandro is doing exactly what you needed. It is mild, but it definitely gives some positives, as far as feeling good, helps sustain muscle in a cut, within reason, and stacks good with TRT as long as people are reasonable with expectations.

Yup, this. When cutting I'm usually trying to figure out how to minimize my strength loss. rarely do I see strength improvements on a cut. 9lbs lost in 6 weeks is what, 1.5lbs per week? with moderate strength increase? and you're still only at 600mg? I'd say stay the course, you're on FIRE right now. these are fantastic results. Imagine another 6 weeks (if things of course maintained linear progression)

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Yup, this. When cutting I'm usually trying to figure out how to minimize my strength loss. rarely do I see strength improvements on a cut. 9lbs lost in 6 weeks is what, 1.5lbs per week? with moderate strength increase? and you're still only at 600mg? I'd say stay the course, you're on FIRE right now. these are fantastic results. Imagine another 6 weeks (if things of course maintained linear progression)

Thanks Dustin and others, yea I am happy with the progress.. 11lb now, the losses are very consistent.
And yes I definitely plan trying some other SNS products after this (I've used inhibit p and inhibit E a lot, but want to try their Anabolic XT as it comes so highly recommended)

 

[Dustin07]

11lbs is a great milestone, rooting for you and your continued success-

 

[sns8778]

Gave me, and many others, limp dick. Yes your testosterone goes up but that seems pretty useless when your dick doesn’t work. I also had vision issues (floaters) and regular headaches.

I've heard that from a lot of people - it surprised me how not too long ago everyone was treating enclomiphene like it was candy, especially with the erection issues (and any eye side effects scare me too bad to where that's a no go for me).

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Update:
So I'm ending the Epiandro today - that makes 9 weeks not quite the full 10 I had imagined. Reasons for the early finish are hard to explain, it just feels like time.. I have been feeling creaky (probably being 41 is part of that too), a bit flu-y... Nothing serious but it just feels like time to call it.
So I'll end now, begin clomaplex today and Anabolic XT soon too. As well as cycle support for a couple more weeks probably.

So, overall now over 9 weeks I'm down 6.7kg (=14.7 lb) which I think is pretty decent, without any noticeable strength loss. Not much in the way of strength gains, but no loss... And I've been on around 1800 calories a day (1600-2000) so substantially fewer than usual.

Overall I'm pretty happy, and plan on doing basically the exact same thing again in a few months time (summer/autumn).

Now I guess it is possible I could've lost the same weight just by dieting in the same way without Epiandro, I really don't know... As I think I said above, my frame was naturally very slim (at 20 I was under 140lb at 6 foot) I've added to it over the years, and this was my first ever sustained period of dieting or restricting calories, so I do not know if it would've gone as well without Epiandro. But it gave me the confidence to do it, without fear I was losing hard-earned muscle.. so for me it's been worth it. Just felt I should add that caveat.

In the end I did run it at 600mg throughout... A few days I tried 900mg on workout days, but I was noticing increased irritability on those days, it might have just been a coincidence but it seemed to be a trend and I didn't like it so stuck with 600.

Anyway thanks everyone for the advice here and I hope this has been useful for anyone considering doing something similar.

 

[Dblock]

You would have lost the weight but your physique would have “looked” different if that makes sense. It keeps you hard and keeps your strength up which avoids the mind f——— of feeling weak while dieting. It is very useful in my opinion

 

[delsolrob]

Epiandro isn't really much of a cutting compound - especially at the doses you used.

The major benefit of adding the epiandro is to help with some muscle density and to give you a little more aggression and some minor strength gains. It should also help with reducing some water weight.

If you wanted a solid cutting compound that would really help without a lot of sides - 11-kt is the best options right now...maybe something to try next time.

There are only a few 11-kt products available right now - Iron Legion XI-KT and Iconic Formulations Ultra Eleven are two I'd recommend.

Everything is a tool and some tools are meant for certain jobs - a chisel can get a hammers job done, but it's not really the efficient way of doing it. 11-kt is specifically a cutting compound - you also shouldn't have to worry about the irritability you may experience with epiandro.

Two other options that may interest you are Alpha Seven and Ultra Hard

Alpha Seven contains a hefty dose of androsterone and 7-keto - androsterone is much more potent for leaning than epiandrosterone, the 7-keto also works synergistically for cutting.

Ultra Hard contains both epiandrosterone and androsterone in a 3:1 ratio. Androsterone is a great tool for balancing out the effects of epiandrosterone. While epiandro can cause anxiety and irritability, androsterone gives a cool and calm feeling - balancing out the epiandrosterone. This 3:1 ratio has been shown to be the ideal balance of the two to give a lot of synergy and get the best of both and mitigating sides. For some people androsterone, on its own, can be too calming at high doses.

 

[Dustin07]

Epiandro isn't really much of a cutting compound - especially at the doses you used.

The major benefit of adding the epiandro is to help with some muscle density and to give you a little more aggression and some minor strength gains. It should also help with reducing some water weight.

I've used epiandro on both bulks and cuts. I can't say that it ever contributed to strength directly, but my results were exactly what you mention above. I feel like I gained some mass/hypertrophy and likely some improved work capacity/drive that led to that mass gain. I feel like it helped build a base that woud launch into strength gains, or preserved some mass while on a cut. The cut still had to come from cardio and caloric deficits though.

Ultra Hard contains both epiandrosterone and androsterone in a 3:1 ratio. Androsterone is a great tool for balancing out the effects of epiandrosterone. While epiandro can cause anxiety and irritability, androsterone gives a cool and calm feeling - balancing out the epiandrosterone. This 3:1 ratio has been shown to be the ideal balance of the two to give a lot of synergy and get the best of both and mitigating sides. For some people androsterone, on its own, can be too calming at high doses.

Androsterone always gave me those good vibes. probably my single favorite thing for just the good mood effect.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Round 2
Aug 2025
Just noting here so it's all in the 1 place... (Though I would understand if it gets moved to logs or somewhere else) I am redoing essentially the same 10 week cycle again now.
Hoping for similar results, some fat loss while preserving (or improving) strength. Going to begin on 2000 calories a day and reduce down a few weeks in if I think it's needed.
Weeks 1-10

• 600mg epiandro
• Cel cycle assist

(+ Multivitamin + extra magnesium for sleep but also noting the problems with cramps I had in the first run... If I still get the cramps I'll know to add taurine... Above I used both so didn't know which it was that helped)

Then weeks 11 onwards cloma-plex and I'll either get more anabolic xt, or use up some deltaXT + NolvadrenXT because I've had them around for ages and am not sure when else I'll use them before they expire

 

[ironviking]

Really interested to see your results this time. How did your results from last time hold up and what are your stats now?

 

[BritCitFutsie]

Really interested to see your results this time. How did your results from last time hold up and what are your stats now?

Cheers, well I didn't keep the lost pounds off..but then I did consciously return to higher calories to help gain more strength. I am back to about the same weight I was before the first run - 93.3kg (6 foot)... though my strength has been progressing. I seek to lose some of the chub again, so hopefully finish the second run a similar weight to the end of the first run, but stronger... And a year older (42 now )

 

[ironviking]

looking through this thread I'd say your calories are a bit low. I could have missed it but I didn't see any posts of your workout but I'm guessing it's more than 2x per week. If you're open to suggestions - I'd say keep your kcals around the 2300/day mark and shoot for 1lb loss per week. You'll probably retain more lean mass and feel better during the whole cycle. If you can, get a body comp done every 3 weeks, that will help you see where the weight loss is coming from and you can adjust kcals or activity appropriately.
Sounds like you had some really good results last time but honestly it looks like you are trying to lose as much weight as possible and hoping the EpiA will retain your muscle mass. That's not necessarily a bad approach but at the deficit you were at that that is a tall ask. Your height and weight puts your maintenance at around the 2700 mark.


Also, you could take a different approach and go for a longer game. Use the EpiA for a light bulk ~3kcals per day (Increase as needed) for 12 weeks, PCT for 4wks at maintenance kcals, maintenance for another 4 wks, then look at cutting again.

Again though I'll say you had great results last time so I'm really interested to see how it goes this time.

 

[BritCitFutsie]

looking through this thread I'd say your calories are a bit low. I could have missed it but I didn't see any posts of your workout but I'm guessing it's more than 2x per week. If you're open to suggestions - I'd say keep your kcals around the 2300/day mark and shoot for 1lb loss per week. You'll probably retain more lean mass and feel better during the whole cycle. If you can, get a body comp done every 3 weeks, that will help you see where the weight loss is coming from and you can adjust kcals or activity appropriately.
Sounds like you had some really good results last time but honestly it looks like you are trying to lose as much weight as possible and hoping the EpiA will retain your muscle mass. That's not necessarily a bad approach but at the deficit you were at that that is a tall ask. Your height and weight puts your maintenance at around the 2700 mark.


Also, you could take a different approach and go for a longer game. Use the EpiA for a light bulk ~3kcals per day (Increase as needed) for 12 weeks, PCT for 4wks at maintenance kcals, maintenance for another 4 wks, then look at cutting again.

Again though I'll say you had great results last time so I'm really interested to see how it goes this time.

Thanks, yea that's food for thought.. I had already increased the calories slightly to 2000 (from 1600-1800 first time) as you're right my maintenance I think is around 2700 maybe 2600. Maybe I'll go to 2200. I remember I didn't quite make the 10 weeks last time, I think it felt like I was running out of steam..maybe some extra energy will help avoid that this time

 

[BritCitFutsie]

2 weeks in, did a second boditrax scan and tbh it feels a bit mediocre.. reckons I've lost 0.4kg of fat in the last 2 weeks but also lost 0.3kg of muscle. Don't know how accurate those machines are but it doesn't feel great. Need to decide do I cut calories further to lose more fat, or increase calories to try to gain more muscle, feels like neither one nor the other at 2200 currently.
In workouts id say stamina feels slightly improved but no benefit detectable on strength.