theyre only good if you know how to use them. as a combo, they dont really combine to form any special effect. just think of them as 2 different supplements for 2 different uses. muscle milk takes a lot of heat for the casein protein and carb+fat content. i alwys tell people its more of a meal replacement than a whey protein shake, and it works well for that category because it has a good amount of calories and decent protein for 2 scoops. i havnt used jack3d micro so no personal experience here. imo it doesnt quite match the top tier preworkouts based on the ingredient profile. 1,3d still exists out there if youre into stims, you just gotta know where to look