muscle growth vs weight prohormones or aas

[greekgeorge]

So my question is what gives better muscle gains not weight gains. What I mean is that I read logs with pics of people after superdrol and blah blah there up 20 pounds in the same shape maybe no increase in bodyfat but that again is typically with massive eating. Im asking because I want to try dymethazine as I have heard 15 pounds in a cycle is easily attainable that would seem to rival test. But will test give better muscle growth. I could care less about weighing more but more about larger fuller rounder aesthetic muscles.

 

[rampage jackson]

Dude, anyone who says they got 20 lbs of pure muscle off SD is full of ****. I gained 25 off of 35mg for 4 weeks, and about 15 of it was muscle, 4 fat and 6 water.

How many cycles have you ran?

at 5'8" & 177, I'd say you're not close to your genetic potential.

 

[nosnmiveins]

what ur looking for is muscle maturity. any AAS will speed this up.....but its still going to be the result of ur diet and training.

id shoot myself if i gained 15-20lbs in a 4 or even 6 week cycle...because i KNOW it wont be all muscle....maybe not even half muscle

 

[greekgeorge]

I have run no cycles before other that formestane standalones. Yeah I could definately put on more muscle mass naturally. But I dont want to waist time with cycles that wont work and hurt my endocrine for gains that are largely water and fat. I want to run dymethazine and dermacrine soon. Im not up to my genetic potential peresonally I dont think anyone has any business cycling on anything unless your below ten percent bodyfat. If not your a fat person who took steroids. Im currently at eight percent. Im asking because I think the pics section in this forums are awful. And reguardless of reaching my full potential who cares plenty of light guys take steroids. Look at frank zane! franco columbo.! both under 200 and many cycles under both of there belts

 

[greekgeorge]

Im going to probably try sarms s4 and dermacrine than do the dimeth. dimethazine seems scary with all the delayed gyno

 

[Rodja]

AAS are going to provide better quality of muscle since they can be used for longer periods of time, but, even then, anything over 2-3 lbs per week is going to be very dirty and not desirable.

BTW, if they gain 20 lbs, but they're BF hasn't changed, then they've gained fat.

 

[greekgeorge]

Oh and why did you try to gain fat on sd. If you dont mind me asking since your cycle have you decided to eat better on cycle I mean ideally no fat gain is the best right.?

 

[rampage jackson]

I have run no cycles before other that formestane standalones. Yeah I could definately put on more muscle mass naturally. But I dont want to waist time with cycles that wont work and hurt my endocrine for gains that are largely water and fat. I want to run dymethazine and dermacrine soon. Im not up to my genetic potential peresonally I dont think anyone has any business cycling on anything unless your below ten percent bodyfat. If not your a fat person who took steroids. Im currently at eight percent. Im asking because I think the pics section in this forums are awful. And reguardless of reaching my full potential who cares plenty of light guys take steroids. Look at frank zane! franco columbo.! both under 200 and many cycles under both of there belts

Dude. You're all over the place here. I think it's wonderful that you're at 8% bf, but that really doesn't mean anything. I was referring to getting the most out of your body (muscle growth) before cycling. How much are you eating, and how long have you been lifting?

I don't want to be smug, but I'm guessing you're not the next Franco or Zane. Beyond that, who knows how long they waited to start cycling. One thing I can tell you is that they weren't taking any designer orals.

 

[greekgeorge]

So on the question of stupid cycles. Would dianabol and dermacrine be better for putting on ten quality keepable pounds of muscle versus dimeth and dermacrine. I have dianabol but I have decided my cycle will be oral only. If I did eight weeks of it would it be better muscle maturity post cycle as a dimeth dermacrine cycle

 

[greekgeorge]

Yeah Im all over the place I have many questions and dont want to post them all over the place its just easier. I have been training four years and my trainer is a former mr. maryland of the 80's. No, im no franco or zane but they are my idols since my height and build falls similarly.I was lifting years ago but the last four years were the ones where diet has been perfect. I eat six meals a day mostly of broiled fish, eggs and greens. shakes at school work and before bed. I have been using german volume training lately despite my trainers advice to not go that route.

 

[greekgeorge]

My trainer simply suggest test and parabolin. I mean yes I know I could get bigger without doing them. I just want to juice, I will be blunt. I like drugs. These drugs sound great.

 

[greekgeorge]

My calories are about 3100 perday. I track all of them. Currently using the anabolic diet

 

[greekgeorge]

anyone around. Did I make everyone mad? Not trying to

 

[nosnmiveins]

My trainer simply suggest test and parabolin. I mean yes I know I could get bigger without doing them. I just want to juice, I will be blunt. I like drugs. These drugs sound great.

id steer clear of tren for ur first cycle.....but test/eq....test/primo...test/dbol....would all be solid cycles

 

[greekgeorge]

Cool leaning towards test and primo. But surely with more research. Its hard to take any opinion legitametly. My trainer says take on cc a week not two like bodybuilders here recommend. When I tell him thats what the new standard is, he laughs and says did they win a contest? I know hes a **** He is also my dad.

 

[greekgeorge]

Doesnt christian boeving suggest only taking one cc as well. He looks pretty amazing.

 

[rampage jackson]

So on the question of stupid cycles. Would dianabol and dermacrine be better for putting on ten quality keepable pounds of muscle versus dimeth and dermacrine. I have dianabol but I have decided my cycle will be oral only. If I did eight weeks of it would it be better muscle maturity post cycle as a dimeth dermacrine cycle

Not a chance. You'll be hard-pressed to keep a lot at all from the D-Bol cycle. DHEA won't help you too much there. Plus you'll be super bloated! Honestly though, you won't do a whole lot better with the dimeth. You need to run test IMO.

If you must run an all-oral cycle, I'd suggest something like anavar or t-bol. Modest gains, but good quality and easy to keep.

Yeah Im all over the place I have many questions and dont want to post them all over the place its just easier. I have been training four years and my trainer is a former mr. maryland of the 80's. No, im no franco or zane but they are my idols since my height and build falls similarly.I was lifting years ago but the last four years were the ones where diet has been perfect. I eat six meals a day mostly of broiled fish, eggs and greens. shakes at school work and before bed. I have been using german volume training lately despite my trainers advice to not go that route.

Cool. I'm not a fan of volume training. I (and many here) belive that heavy weights build the most muscle. Volume training taxes the hell outta the CNS...unless you're running good gear.

My trainer simply suggest test and parabolin. I mean yes I know I could get bigger without doing them. I just want to juice, I will be blunt. I like drugs. These drugs sound great.

Hey man, I love running gear too! Just be smart about it, and it'll be great. I would strongly suggest you don't run tren on your first cycle though! You need to get a good feel of your body on test, since it will be the base for nearly every cycle you run! Tren makes most people feel like ****. Test makes us feel like superman!

I'd recommend Test Prop at 100mg eod.

My calories are about 3100 perday. I track all of them. Currently using the anabolic diet

I love keto diets, but not for bulking. At the very least, consider doing a TKD style diet, if not a regular bulk. I prefer 40/40/20 style diets for bulks. Just focus on quality carbs, and don't forget on pre/post workout carbs! BOBO (the godfather, owner of this joint) likes to keep a steady stream of carbs throughout the day. This keeps insulin levels normalized...thus minimizing any potential fat gain.

 

[greekgeorge]

But If I may say I tend to take advice from the 80's bodybuilders. They all seem to have better symmetry and yes they seem smaller but have better quality muscle than new bodybuilders. I mean i thnk jay cutler, the arnold classic, and all new anything just look like ugly he-man dolls.

 

[rampage jackson]

Cool leaning towards test and primo. But surely with more research. Its hard to take any opinion legitametly. My trainer says take on cc a week not two like bodybuilders here recommend. When I tell him thats what the new standard is, he laughs and says did they win a contest? I know hes a **** He is also my dad.

Well first off, what ester are we talking about here? Your trainer/dad does realize that there are different potencies of the same stuff, right? I've seen prop dosed at 100mg / ml and 50mg / ml. That is just one example. It's a pretty broad statement to say "take test at 1 cc per week". That could mean almost anything.

 

[greekgeorge]

Yeah Im going to change my diet soon. I cant do 40 percent carbs I feel Im very carb sensitive, I have lost ten pounds in two weeks on this keto diet and that to me is signifying that I gain fat from carbs. What ratio would you go for carb sensitive individuals. Yeah I have read gvt is great for gear, I have been liking it in certain areas, it has seemed to hurt bicep growth but made my legs grow a lot. I have been doing it for six weeks and will switch to ovt or maybe just five of five and ten of ten on legs still, not to sure yet. I am months away from a cycle I need to research more. which you guys are helping out with great. I appreciate it. I will be safe, That my number one concern blood pressure and bloodwork will be done weekly. Cycle suppports and serm, the works.

 

[Rodja]

Yeah Im going to change my diet soon. I cant do 40 percent carbs I feel Im very carb sensitive, I have lost ten pounds in two weeks on this keto diet and that to me is signifying that I gain fat from carbs. What ratio would you go for carb sensitive individuals. Yeah I have read gvt is great for gear, I have been liking it in certain areas, it has seemed to hurt bicep growth but made my legs grow a lot. I have been doing it for six weeks and will switch to ovt or maybe just five of five and ten of ten on legs still, not to sure yet. I am months away from a cycle I need to research more. which you guys are helping out with great. I appreciate it. I will be safe, That my number one concern blood pressure and bloodwork will be done weekly. Cycle suppports and serm, the works.

No, no, no.

Carbs are stored as glycogen and for every 1g of glycogen stored, 3g of water are also stored. When you carb deplete, you're losing water and glycogen, not fat.

 

[bigzach1234]

for what u want.. hands down 6-8 weeks of both anavar and test prop... var at 50mg ed... prop at 100-125mg eod.. you shouldnt gain any fat or water... should be all quality muscle.. muscles will get some density and maturity from that as long as u lift heavy and hard. I dont care what your rep scheme is.. even if ur doing 15 reps you always need to lift heavy without breaking down form.

 

[rampage jackson]

Yeah Im going to change my diet soon. I cant do 40 percent carbs I feel Im very carb sensitive, I have lost ten pounds in two weeks on this keto diet and that to me is signifying that I gain fat from carbs. What ratio would you go for carb sensitive individuals. Yeah I have read gvt is great for gear, I have been liking it in certain areas, it has seemed to hurt bicep growth but made my legs grow a lot. I have been doing it for six weeks and will switch to ovt or maybe just five of five and ten of ten on legs still, not to sure yet. I am months away from a cycle I need to research more. which you guys are helping out with great. I appreciate it. I will be safe, That my number one concern blood pressure and bloodwork will be done weekly. Cycle suppports and serm, the works.

Good stuff man. IMO if you're losing weight on a keto diet...it just means that keto diets work. You can lose weight on a 40/40/20 too...it's all about total cals man. Play around with it a bit. Try 50/30/20 (p/c/f). I think you'll find that carb timing is far more important than total carbs.

 

[greekgeorge]

I believe he wants me to try cypionate from upjohn labs. He gets this brand prescribed to him. I do not know the ml per mg dosage. It is a broad thing for him to say I agree. He also recommends no longer than eight weeks on and hcg after not on. I disagree with the hcg but he has many cycles under his belt so im still unsure this is why i will continue to research.

 

[rampage jackson]

No, no, no.

Carbs are stored as glycogen and for every 1g of glycogen stored, 3g of water are also stored. When you carb deplete, you're losing water and glycogen, not fat.

I lost a ton of fat back in the day on a CKD. It was easier for me to stay on the diet eating fatty foods and cheese, etc. I understand what you're saying though brosef. Short term, it's water and fat.

for what u want.. hands down 6-8 weeks of both anavar and test prop... var at 50mg ed... prop at 100-125mg eod.. you shouldnt gain any fat or water... should be all quality muscle.. muscles will get some density and maturity from that as long as u lift heavy and hard. I dont care what your rep scheme is.. even if ur doing 15 reps you always need to lift heavy without breaking down form.

I disagree. Now don't get me wrong, I loves mah Var...but dude needs to run test solo IMO. Why complicate things?

And FWIW, there isn't a single cycle that will keep you from gaining any fat or water on a bulk. In the end, it depends mostly on diet.

 

[greekgeorge]

Yeah I was thinking of trying anabolic burst cycling which I believe has similar ratios. what do you guys think of it?

 

[greekgeorge]

Taking it into consideration big zach Im writing all this down.

 

[greekgeorge]

anyways guys I gotta run. I will definately be in touch with you guys closer to cycle time. In the mean time I may try sarms s4 till I decide to cycle as I have heard its a great precylce drug I am not expecting anything great from it but a pound of muscle is onle less to fight for later.

 

[rampage jackson]

I believe he wants me to try cypionate from upjohn labs. He gets this brand prescribed to him. I do not know the ml per mg dosage. It is a broad thing for him to say I agree. He also recommends no longer than eight weeks on and hcg after not on. I disagree with the hcg but he has many cycles under his belt so im still unsure this is why i will continue to research.

CYP is cool, but keep in mind that it'll take a few weeks to really "feel it". I recommend starting PCT about 2 weeks after your last shot.

With the HCG, I feel much better if I run it about once a week for the last half of my cycle, if at all. HCG will shut down your natural production of LH, and fool your body into producing test. It'll plump up your balls, but not naturally. That's why people use it before the end of their cycles, and not in PCT. You want natural recovery in pct.

 

[rampage jackson]

anyways guys I gotta run. I will definately be in touch with you guys closer to cycle time. In the mean time I may try sarms s4 till I decide to cycle as I have heard its a great precylce drug I am not expecting anything great from it but a pound of muscle is onle less to fight for later.

Don't waste your money. The guy that one dude pimps on this board (why he hasn't been banned is beyone me!) sells fake stuff. You'll be hard pressed to find a reliable source of SARMS.

 

[bigzach1234]

And FWIW, there isn't a single cycle that will keep you from gaining any fat or water on a bulk. In the end, it depends mostly on diet.

i obviously understand this.. its all about diet.. but i mean he's on ckd... so theres a huge factor in not gaining fat.. plus it seems like he knows enough about diet to obviously not be eatting for an all out sloppy bulk.. i just feel like var/low dose test would attain keepable gains.. without alot of water weight or fat as opposed to a long cycle of something like 500mg test dbol ..even though in the end he could cut on that cycle also if he wanted to with the right diet.. also i wouldnt reccomend such a long first cycle to someone who has never run anything even ph/ds

 

[alwaysgaining]

My trainer simply suggest test and parabolin. I mean yes I know I could get bigger without doing them. I just want to juice, I will be blunt. I like drugs. These drugs sound great.

with that kinda of attitude u will **** your self up really, u just want drugs???
diet is 90% bro u can take every drug in the world if u dont train right and eat right u are wasting money and puting your health at risk just my 2 cents

 

[rampage jackson]

i obviously understand this.. its all about diet.. but i mean he's on ckd... so theres a huge factor in not gaining fat.. plus it seems like he knows enough about diet to obviously not be eatting for an all out sloppy bulk.. i just feel like var/low dose test would attain keepable gains.. without alot of water weight or fat as opposed to a long cycle of something like 500mg test dbol ..even though in the end he could cut on that cycle also if he wanted to with the right diet.. also i wouldnt reccomend such a long first cycle to someone who has never run anything even ph/ds

Agree to disagree. He could always just run Var solo...lots of ppl do. I think test would be pointless for a short cycle though. Test will give most people varying levels of bloat, but it will go away.

I suppose the whole CKD vs Carbs for bulking is personal preference. People get fat while on CKD, as well as a normal diet. Like I said before, I think nutrient timing is everything.

 

[jbryand101b]

test e/superdrol cycle.

test e at 350mg weeks 1-12

sd @ 20mg weeks 1-4

have nolva on hand, enough for gyno signs, and pct.

if you want to run an all oral cycle, go with hd at 75mg for 6 weeks.

if you dont like these cycles, or the stuff previously posted, hell, before you go any further, I really suggest you purchase a copy of these books----v

 

[greekgeorge]

THanks for the info, That dude just private messaged me to.

 

[schwellington]

Im on a cut right now....cut my carbs from bout 350 a day to an average of 150-175 a day..... I have lost 4 lbs in ten days.....carbs are important however if total cals out is more than total calls in your good....carbs however ARE stored as fat the yare your bodys number 1 energy source...which is why they are essential for muscle growht but are also essential for fat loss- carbs will either make u or brake u