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More research, better PCT. Still need further input.

DYEGYE

DYEGYE

Member
I posted a thread a while back about a cycle that my buddy and I were trying to design. At the time, it seemed like the way the cycle was designed, an OTC PCT would be more than sufficient. However, looking at what it has become, I'm not sure that is still the case. I'll lay out the cycle first:

Halovar: 0/50/75/75/75/75/75
11-Sterone: 0/225/225/225/300/300/300
Cycle Assist 8/8/8/8/8/8/8

Below are the two PCT protocols:

OTC:
PCT Assist 6/6/6/6
DAA?
ATD/6-bromo 0/0/50/50/25/25
Cortisol Control 0/0/RD/RD/RD/RD (RD= recommended dose)
SuperCissus RX 0/0/4/4/4/4
Anabolic Pump 0/0/3/3/3/3


SERM
Nolvadex 20/20/10/10
DAA?
PCT Assist* 0/0/6/6/6/6 (*is this even worthwhile if using a SERM?)
ATD/6-bromo* 0/0/50/50/25/25
Cortisol Control 0/0/RD/RD/RD/RD (RD= recommended dose)
SuperCissus RX 0/0/4/4/4/4
Anabolic Pump 0/0/3/3/3/3



Just a couple questions here:

I know the test booster/ AI combo is very popular for OTC PCT's, but I wasn't sure if either would even be needed if a SERM was used. Surely a test booster couldn't hurt, but I know that AI's can make a royal mess of things from a recovery standpoint.

Also, as far as SERMs are concerned, I know Nolva is what most people seem to prefer, but would that be the best choice for a cycle like this? I know it can help fight gyno if that's an issue at all, but I also know it's extremely liver toxic.

I just threw the DAA in there because it's cheap and I know it's been proven to have a potent effect on test levels, which while not making them unnaturally epic, it would seem that it could help normalize them during PCT. 3g is the standard daily dose, correct?

Also, just to explain my reasoning on some of the other things

Cortisol control- in case the compounds don't indicate this, this stack is designed for a recomp/ cut (more recomp, the thought being that one could eat enough to gain muscle and the 11-sterone would fight the fat). The product used here could be Lean Xtreme, Reduce XT, or Suppress-C.

Cissus- double-edged sword. Great for the joints so it would help recover and prevent injury after massive muscular growth. Also, the effects it has on cortisol receptors and carbohydrate metabolism are extremely interesting.

Anabolic Pump- I'm a big fan of this product. Thought that the pumps it provides would help maintain cell volumization, and the way it effects carbs would also be beneficial for continuing the recomp.

The main risk I'm seeing, provided all went well with a cycle of this nature, is that hypoglycemia would be a constant potential issue. Halovar has additives that upregulate glut4, which is also what A.P. does. I'm not sure the method by which Cissus affects blood sugar.

I've done a fair bit of research here, but what I need at this point is direct input from experienced individuals. As such, AM, I come to you, seeking wisdom.
 
One other question, as I'm seeing lots of different answers and I don't know if there's a standard for this. What would a Toremifen PCT on this look like? 90/60/60/30?
 
looks good. dont run an AI if you use a SERM

if you run PCT assist you dont really need DAA. Save the DAA for after PCT. I would run nolva
 
Just out of curiosity,What SERMs have you tried warbird? The reason I ask is because I noticed people have a tendency to only recommended products they have tried. It would seem that Toremifen is an interesting SERM that shows to be more effective and less liver toxic than nolva. May be worth a try imo
 
DBdude said:
Just out of curiosity,What SERMs have you tried warbird? The reason I ask is because I noticed people have a tendency to only recommended products they have tried. It would seem that Toremifen is an interesting SERM that shows to be more effective and less liver toxic than nolva. May be worth a try imo
Click to expand...

my PCT of choice now is clomid/nolva

i have tried nolva, clomid, and torem

I have also seen ppl who love torem, I ran it, didnt like it at all though.

Really any SERM is gong to be fine. I just recommend nolva because is seems to be the most consistent and is the easiest to get ahold of. Not knocking any of the other SERMs though.
 
I guess it pays to just try them all, everyone is different. The reason I ask is because I'm running a cycle with dyegye and I'm using torem for pct to see how effective it is.
But thanks for the info
 
DBdude said:
I guess it pays to just try them all, everyone is different. The reason I ask is because I'm running a cycle with dyegye and I'm using torem for pct to see how effective it is.
But thanks for the info
Click to expand...

Yeah everyone is different. I suggest ppl trying different PCTs to see what their body responds to best.
 
I found torem to be strong at recovering HPTA, but very weak preventing gyno.

Nolva, great at gyno prevention, but a ****tier recovery, and that was from halodrol!

I'm on clomid right now. Balls seem to be coming back nicely, but I just cried watching an episode of scrubs. So yea.

I'm pretty sure OTC PCT supps are ****...except for maybe fenugreek products.
 
OnTheRoadTo said:
but I just cried watching an episode of scrubs. So yea.
Click to expand...

:haha: clomid does stimulate the receptors it blocks, but just a little bit. Just enough to give you the emotional imbalance of a pregnant women. Which would make it hilarious to watch a 200+lb monster of a bodybuilder whimpering at a soap opera =)

But for gyno protection could you stack nolva with torem? people stack nolva and clomid all the time. And this would give you the best of both SERMs
 
DBdude said:
:haha: clomid does stimulate the receptors it blocks, but just a little bit. Just enough to give you the emotional imbalance of a pregnant women. Which would make it hilarious to watch a 200+lb monster of a bodybuilder whimpering at a soap opera =)

But for gyno protection could you stack nolva with torem? people stack nolva and clomid all the time. And this would give you the best of both SERMs
Click to expand...

I'm unsure why no one has done this. I think largely because
1. Torem is $$$ and
2. Nolva actually boosts T-level more in those that aren't shut down.

I actually am quite sure that the reason people don't like nolva is that it is TOO antiestrogenic. So, libido suffers considerably.
 
OnTheRoadTo said:
I'm unsure why no one has done this. I think largely because
1. Torem is $$$ and
2. Nolva actually boosts T-level more in those that aren't shut down.

I actually am quite sure that the reason people don't like nolva is that it is TOO antiestrogenic. So, libido suffers considerably.
Click to expand...

But if you don't care about libido, then it should be fine right?
 
i as well am unsure of whether to go with nolva or torem...doing a havoc cycle soon. from what i understand havoc/epi does not cause gyno and in some cases reduces it. What are you guys thinking?
 
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