Mk677 & LGD - 1st time on the gain train

YoungThor said:
I also don’t agree with the philosophy of “you might as well try the hard stuff right out the gate.” Would you suggest this with any other category of drug? To put it in perspective, imagine someone just turned 21 and they’re going out to drink for the first time. Would you say, “forget about lagers and pale ales, you might as well bang shots of bicardi 151, since you goal is to get drunk anyway, and you’re likely going to wake up with a hangover no matter what you choose.” To me, I think it’s sensible to get your feet wet by trying something weaker first, and then you decide whether it’s for you or not. A SARMS cycle will help him make this decision, and if he wants, he can run test and dbol for his second cycle.
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Haha, I half agree and half don’t.

Agree shouldn’t run strong compounds like dbol first cycle but do think that pinning test at a moderate level for a decent duration is the smart play.

Imo test is at least tried and tested over many years, the sides and how to manage them are well known, sarms are newer and have less research or knowledge about long term effects.

I guess my view is to run milder compounds first but at proper doses and duration (so at least you get a return for the suppression) to see how your body reacts before you move onto stronger stuff.

Personally I couldn’t face pinning so started with ph’s. If at the time I could handle pinning I would have done test only.
 
Jey said:
Oh! I just checked the bottle and you’re right.. the recommended dose for the 150-190lb range is 3-5 pumps..

So as far as LGD is concerned I shouldn’t start with a low dose to see how my body reacts to it?

Is it wise to just jump in on a 10-15mg dose? Even though its my very first cycle of anything other than plant sterols?
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Personal dose tolerance assessment is smart and important for any new compound ingested. Start low, if you tolerate LGD or any new SARM or PH or anabolics well... Then you increase dose after first few days for the rest of cycle.

I had a different experience with LGD, even without a Test-base. I gained almost like i was on DMZ or Sdrol. I only ran a 5-6 week cycle. This was a year or so ago, I was also using MK-677. Mk-677 I used for ~9 months through a number of cycles. It increases hunger and speed of recovery. Which is useful for hard training on anabolics.

LGD was pretty low side effect, my natural Test was supress a bit toward the end of that shorter LGD cycle, but gains we're good and didn't stress out my liver like methylated Pro hormones will where I need to eat a gram of TUDCA daily to keep liver levels in check.
 
Whisky said:
Haha, I half agree and half don’t.

Agree shouldn’t run strong compounds like dbol first cycle but do think that pinning test at a moderate level for a decent duration is the smart play.

Imo test is at least tried and tested over many years, the sides and how to manage them are well known, sarms are newer and have less research or knowledge about long term effects.

I guess my view is to run milder compounds first but at proper doses and duration (so at least you get a return for the suppression) to see how your body reacts before you move onto stronger stuff.

Personally I couldn’t face pinning so started with ph’s. If at the time I could handle pinning I would have done test only.
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I agree with this. Test is tried and tested. It’s been around for a while and we create it in our bodies. But although we don’t have a ton of research on sarms, some of them we know a decent amount about. LGD is one of them. I think you can expect the same sides that everyone gets, which are mostly suppression sides, or maybe you’re like me, and there will be no side effects from lgd. Now a sarm like ACP-105 would be a stupid one to try for a first cycle, or maybe at all. We know nothing about it.

And as for needles. Sometimes it’s not a fear of needles that prevents people from pinning. I have no problem getting injected but it’s the social stigma that I want to avoid. I don’t feel like bringing needles into my household and having that conversation right now. One day I likely will though.
 
YoungThor said:
I agree with this. Test is tried and tested. It’s been around for a while and we create it in our bodies. But although we don’t have a ton of research on sarms, some of them we know a decent amount about. LGD is one of them. I think you can expect the same sides that everyone gets, which are mostly suppression sides, or maybe you’re like me, and there will be no side effects from lgd. Now a sarm like ACP-105 would be a stupid one to try for a first cycle, or maybe at all. We know nothing about it.

And as for needles. Sometimes it’s not a fear of needles that prevents people from pinning. I have no problem getting injected but it’s the social stigma that I want to avoid. I don’t feel like bringing needles into my household and having that conversation right now. One day I likely will though.
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Yeah thats a good point - I also won’t bring needles into my house (kids etc), fortunately I own a gym so can keep everything there (my business partner also cycles)........
 
For your first cycle keep it simple. I would recommend lgd at 10mg for 6 weeks and evaluate how you feel. Then possibly bump to 15 or 20 for 2 more weeks.

As a first cycle I would not go longer than 8 weeks. You're not trying to become Mr Olympia in 12 weeks. Remember it's a long game. Dermacrune at 4-6 pumps should provide you plenty of base, save the 4andro for another time. Plus you won't need on cycle with just dermacrine and lgd.

Get pre and post blood work. Take the mk677, I loved it at 12.5mg with 5mg melatonin at night. Great recovery, huge appetite boost, and really helped my flexibility.

Biggest thing is don't let people saying 6-8 weeks is a waste influence you. I did and ran my first cycle for 12 weeks and was miserable by then end but felt awesome at week 8. In hindsight I wish no would have stopped at 8.
 
jdm23 said:
For your first cycle keep it simple. I would recommend lgd at 10mg for 6 weeks and evaluate how you feel. Then possibly bump to 15 or 20 for 2 more weeks.

As a first cycle I would not go longer than 8 weeks. You're not trying to become Mr Olympia in 12 weeks. Remember it's a long game. Dermacrune at 4-6 pumps should provide you plenty of base, save the 4andro for another time. Plus you won't need on cycle with just dermacrine and lgd.

Get pre and post blood work. Take the mk677, I loved it at 12.5mg with 5mg melatonin at night. Great recovery, huge appetite boost, and really helped my flexibility.

Biggest thing is don't let people saying 6-8 weeks is a waste influence you. I did and ran my first cycle for 12 weeks and was miserable by then end but felt awesome at week 8. In hindsight I wish no would have stopped at 8.
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Interesting. Why do you think you felt miserable at the end of that first cycle? Did the drug just take its toll on your body?

And I forgot about how awesome the recovery benefits from mk677 are. I’m gonna run it during pct soon. Last time I ran it I was never sore.
 
YoungThor said:
Interesting. Why do you think you felt miserable at the end of that first cycle? Did the drug just take its toll on your body?

And I forgot about how awesome the recovery benefits from mk677 are. I’m gonna run it during pct soon. Last time I ran it I was never sore.
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Honestly I think it was as psychological as physiological. I started with ostarine for 7 weeks at 25mg then added s4 at week 7 50/60/70/70/70. I did not handle the feeling of being suppressed well. I just finished a 12 week rad cycle and it was much better just because I could manage the feeling of suppression better. That’s why I suggest a shorter first cycle. Get your feet wet, get a feel for it and build from there.
 
YoungThor said:
I also don’t agree with the philosophy of “you might as well try the hard stuff right out the gate.” Would you suggest this with any other category of drug? To put it in perspective, imagine someone just turned 21 and they’re going out to drink for the first time. Would you say, “forget about lagers and pale ales, you might as well bang shots of bicardi 151, since you goal is to get drunk anyway, and you’re likely going to wake up with a hangover no matter what you choose.” To me, I think it’s sensible to get your feet wet by trying something weaker first, and then you decide whether it’s for you or not. A SARMS cycle will help him make this decision, and if he wants, he can run test and dbol for his second cycle.
Click to expand...

I would much rather do a dbol only cycle then an lgd only cycle for instance...

If you discard 19nor's and heavily aromatisable compounds like trest, it's all about dosages. And the second thing is doing labs, monitoring your condition. Do you think that people who do lgd cycles with tons of cycle assist BS have any idea what theirs e2 is or liver enzymes, test, etc.? No they dont. And that makes it more dangerous and unhealthy then doing a proper cycle which is properly ran/monitored.

The problem is really the legality and the needles apsect. But just regarding health? A test and primo cycle, with good estrogen control will be miles ahead of some BS lgd, dermacrine ch*it cycle, that will have your hormones fluctuating like crazy throught the day. So let's just stop pretending that doing sarm or ph cycles is good for beginners. It's not. Period. :)
 
Jinsun said:
I would much rather do a dbol only cycle then an lgd only cycle for instance...

If you discard 19nor's and heavily aromatisable compounds like trest, it's all about dosages. And the second thing is doing labs, monitoring your condition. Do you think that people who do lgd cycles with tons of cycle assist BS have any idea what theirs e2 is or liver enzymes, test, etc.? No they dont. And that makes it more dangerous and unhealthy then doing a proper cycle which is properly ran/monitored.

The problem is really the legality and the needles apsect. But just regarding health? A test and primo cycle, with good estrogen control will be miles ahead of some BS lgd, dermacrine ch*it cycle, that will have your hormones fluctuating like crazy throught the day. So let's just stop pretending that doing sarm or ph cycles is good for beginners. It's not. Period. :)
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So you’re the type of guy who goes hard, but plays it safe at the same time. You like to bang a shot of bicardi 151 and then use a breathalyzer to check your BAC levels.

To me DHEA is mild. It gives me a little energy boost, makes me kind of horny, and overall helps me feel alright. Are my hormones fluctuating throughout the day? I’m sure. But your hormones fluctuate throughout the day even when your off cycle. It doesn’t impact my life at all.

I’m not saying a cycle of test and primo is some super dangerous, risky thing, but to say it poses less of a risk then dermacrine and lgd is kind of ludicrous to me. What possible side effects could he experience using dermacrine and lgd? I could think of very few, mostly hunger, but the others could be fixed by adjusting the dermacrine dose.

Also, I too would recommend dbol only over lgd only because dbol is almost identical to test.

But you’re generalizing people who use lgd as the type of people who don’t get blood work done and don’t know what’s going on inside their body. Yes, people who use lgd are often less experienced, beginner types, but why don’t we encourage him to safely use whatever the hell he wants and try to nudge him to get blood work done no matter the compound he chooses. And say he does do sarms, or AAS, but skips the blood work and never finds out that his liver enzymes were elevated, e2 went up 8 points, his cholesterol was slightly damaged, but he felt absolutely great on cycle and will now take a lengthy break. Did all that information he never learned about the inner workings of his body even matter? Yeah, a little, but he can carry on with his life without knowing it, so long as he takes a break and runs a safe cycle next time. We just get too caught up on numbers anyway. There are strong, masculine motherfukkers out there who have test levels of 450, and pudgy effeminate dough boys who have test levels of 920. At the end of the day does it matter what the number says if the guy with the high one is sluggish and weak but the guy with the low one can deadlift 600 lbs? It doesn’t matter to me.
 
No, I don't go hard and play it safe. I go conservative and play it safe :) A 500mg test cycle will equall or surpass an lgd dermacrine cycle. You can even lower test to, let's say 350 and be on the same level regarding gains as lgd (I've never used lgd so cant speak of results). It's all in the dosages.

Well tbh it kinda goes hand in hand. Ignorance = sarms use. So in some way it's safe to generalize. Regarding test vs lgd + dermacrine... yes offcourse I think it's safer to use test with proper use of Ai. Then if you want more add primo, or tbol, or var or even lgd. I think having crashed or very low e2 is not healthy. And that is what happens on lgd only or + dermacrine cycle. And lots of people feel like crap on such a cycle. Some don't, lots do. With a test, either as a base or as the main compound, it's basically guaranteed you'll feel great. Now if you add for instance SD youl'll feel like crap, but that's not part of this discourse really. And also, if ypu feel good this still doesn't mean all is a.o.k. DHEA is a feel good compound, but you can still have low e2 and low dht right?

Soooo... it's all in dosages and proper running of the cycle. 15mg lgd equals to what? 500 test? Gotta stop philosphing now as I just got company, but you get my point right?
 
It’s not all about health risks and rewards though. For many people the legality of certain compounds is the deciding factor. I know it is for me.

Without a doubt test is safer than lgd. It’s been around nearly 100years where lgd has been around 20. And from what I read tests a more successful cycle but it is illegal thanks to Uncle Sam.
 
jdm23 said:
It’s not all about health risks and rewards though. For many people the legality of certain compounds is the deciding factor. I know it is for me.

Without a doubt test is safer than lgd. It’s been around nearly 100years where lgd has been around 20. And from what I read tests a more successful cycle but it is illegal thanks to Uncle Sam.
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Don't worry Uncle Sam is about to ban SARMs sales too... I noticed Purerawz and Enhanced Arsenal lines coming from outside USA now, shame.

And no, SARMs use does not equal ignorance. And yes, Test is more proven, but has drawbacks that some SARMs that have shown low side effects don't have. And as we learn more about SARMs / PH / anabolic steroids, they'll continue to improve... In both safety and efficacy and I love the wealth of user experience on sites like AM here.

But with everything being banned or scheduled, we are all criminals in one way or another. US hammer laws.
 
Jinsun said:
No, I don't go hard and play it safe. I go conservative and play it safe :) A 500mg test cycle will equall or surpass an lgd dermacrine cycle. You can even lower test to, let's say 350 and be on the same level regarding gains as lgd (I've never used lgd so cant speak of results). It's all in the dosages.

Well tbh it kinda goes hand in hand. Ignorance = sarms use. So in some way it's safe to generalize. Regarding test vs lgd + dermacrine... yes offcourse I think it's safer to use test with proper use of Ai. Then if you want more add primo, or tbol, or var or even lgd. I think having crashed or very low e2 is not healthy. And that is what happens on lgd only or + dermacrine cycle. And lots of people feel like crap on such a cycle. Some don't, lots do. With a test, either as a base or as the main compound, it's basically guaranteed you'll feel great. Now if you add for instance SD youl'll feel like crap, but that's not part of this discourse really. And also, if ypu feel good this still doesn't mean all is a.o.k. DHEA is a feel good compound, but you can still have low e2 and low dht right?

Soooo... it's all in dosages and proper running of the cycle. 15mg lgd equals to what? 500 test? Gotta stop philosphing now as I just got company, but you get my point right?
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Yeah I see what you’re saying. I think we’re pretty much in agreement. I guess the low DHT and e2 wouldn’t be from the DHEA itself but the other ingredients in dermacrine, right? Im on derm and lgd at the moment, and I’m halfway through week 6. This week has been rough but I realized I was getting harsh sides from yk11 so I scrapped that. But I still feel slightly off. So maybe it would be smart for the OP to run this cycle only 8 weeks if he does choose to go with it. I was gonna go longer but now I’m second guessing it. I’ll know by the middle of next week if I wanna go past week 8 or stop it there.
 
Thank you everyone for your input..

Ive decided on my LGD run and it will be as follows:
August 20 - October 15th
- LGD (Bulk)
- Taper up
- Week1: 5mg (individual dose tolerance assessment week)
- Week2: 10mg
- Week3: 10mg
- Week4: 15mg
- Week5: 15mg
- Week6: 15mg
- Week7: 20mg
- Week8: 20mg

Test Base
- Dermacrine
- Week 1: 1pump in the morning and afternoon
- Week 2-8: 1.5pumps in the morning and afternoon

On Cycle Therapy
- Exemestane 12.5mg EOD
Week 1: 6mg (individual dose tolerance assessment week)

- Life Support 2.0
- Beet Root Powder
- Deer Antler
- Long Jack
- ZMA
-Hawthorn berry
- Humanofort
-NAC
-Milk Thistle
-garlic extract, icarin, boron, vit D,

PCT
8weeks (October 15 - December 10)
- Dermacrine Sustain

- Tamoxifen Citrate
- Taper Down
- Week 1: 15mg
- Week 2: 15mg
- Week 3: 12.5mg
- Week 4: 12.5mg
- Week 5: 10mg
- Week 6: 10mg
- Week 7: 5mg
- Week 8: 5mg

Aromatase Inhibitor
Exemestane EOD 9weeks (Prevents rebound)
Taper Down
- Week 1: 12.5mg
- Week 2: 12.5mg
- Week 3: 8mg
- Week 4: 8mg
- Week 5: 6mg
- Week 6: 6mg
- Week 7: 3mg
- Week 8: 3mg
- Week 9: 3mg

Let me know what you think! Good or Bad!

I’m planning on getting bloods done before and after.
Also, I will be logging my experience so that I can keep myself on track and also so that others can learn from it to decide on their own runs in the future.

Thank you again gentlemen for your input.
 
boooosted said:
You're going to be on exemestane for 17 weeks for an 8 week LGD cycle? Am I reading this right?
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Is that bad? Even though its every other day?

I saw a log of a gentleman who did it and it seemed to work for him and made sense to me. Being that exemestene is a suicide inhibitor and Im seeking to prevent estrogen sides while on and estrogen rebound after PCT
 
Jey said:
Is that bad? Even though its every other day?

I saw a log of a gentleman who did it and it seemed to work for him and made sense to me. Being that exemestene is a suicide inhibitor and Im seeking to prevent estrogen sides while on and estrogen rebound after PCT
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I would save the exem for only if you need it. Chances are you wont need it and youll just crash your e2 with it. Always good to have just in case though. Bc sh1t happens
 
christ83189 said:
I would save the exem for only if you need it. Chances are you wont need it and youll just crash your e2 with it. Always good to have just in case though. Bc sh1t happens
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I'd go with this. Save it as I'm sure it's only going to do more harm than good. There's a very minimal chance you would need it. Even if you did there would be no need for it that long after your cycle. Good luck with everything, hope you get what you're looking for out of it.
 
I’m sure it’s possible for certain people to experience estro sides with derm and lgd but it’s extremely unlikely. Also, that dermacrine dose is too low. Depending on your weight, you want to stay in the 3-5 pump range. I’m 190 lbs and I started with 3 pumps but after two weeks I went to 4 and by week six I increased it to 5. You might want to do something like this. Just listen to your body and if your feeling suppression side effects then your derm dose is probably too low.
 
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