MITOBURN. L-BAIBA???

[Bigwyatt]

Has anyone tried the newish Mitoburn (L-Baiba)?? If so, thoughts? Dosing?

Looking to add to a cycle. Can get a bottle of 60x250mgs for about $25.00 each.

 

[Ricky10]

No, but in to find out more!

 

[BigGame84]

Dosing needs to be at 1g daily.

 

[Irishobrien]

For me, 500mg twice daily was the best dose, or 1g prior to workout. Lower doses probably also work but with less tangible, readily observable, effects

 

[Ricky10]

For me, 500mg twice daily was the best dose, or 1g prior to workout. Lower doses probably also work but with less tangible, readily observable, effects

Sides and results at this dose?

 

[Afi140]

Sides and results at this dose?

No sides. 1 gram is Good. I like the ingredient for sure. Really good in thermoamp as all the ingredients work synergistically

ThermoAmp by Iconic Formulations

ThermoAmp by Iconic Formulations is the new non stim weight loss solution that will have you looking the way you want, without feeling the way you dont.

www.strongsupplementshop.com

 

[Bigwyatt]

What exactly are the benefits that you noticed?

 

[Afi140]

What exactly are the benefits that you noticed?

Increase in body temp/sweat; sweat only when training though but clean unlike Gbb or yohimbine. Fat loss is the number one thing

 

[sns8778]

MitoBurn looks like it has good potential.

The daily recommended dosage is 500 mg. to 1000 mg. per day.

It's an expensive ingredient so you probably won't see the 1000 mg. per day dose in many formulas because they wouldn't have much room to add any other good ingredients if so.

We are looking at using it a couple things coming up.

 

[DieselNY]

On paper it looks amazing but I'm not sure it lives it up it. I got a kg from NNB, took 3 to 5 GRAMS a day and unsure I noticed much.

Compare that to Mediator Phosphatidic Acid...NO comparison.(but BAIBA has other benefits and properties and is why I wantedto try it). I got so strong so fast on PA I hurt my shoulder going up in weights in the gym so fast. Was taking a LOT as well like 2500+mg actual PA content.

 

[sns8778]

On paper it looks amazing but I'm not sure it lives it up it. I got a kg from NNB, took 3 to 5 GRAMS a day and unsure I noticed much.

Compare that to Mediator Phosphatidic Acid...NO comparison.(but BAIBA has other benefits and properties and is why I wantedto try it). I got so strong so fast on PA I hurt my shoulder going up in weights in the gym so fast. Was taking a LOT as well like 2500+mg actual PA content.

I've heard great results from people using 500 to 1000 mg. per day. Your experience makes me wonder a couple things (purely curiosity) if its maybe not as beneficial on keto, if there's a point of diminishing returns, or even if it doesn't work as well on people like yourself that are already super lean. Or, like anything else, different things work different for different people.

That's great feedback on Phosphatidic Acid. That excites me that you did so well off of it since we are going to be releasing one soon

 

[DieselNY]

I've heard great results from people using 500 to 1000 mg. per day. Your experience makes me wonder a couple things (purely curiosity) if its maybe not as beneficial on keto, if there's a point of diminishing returns, or even if it doesn't work as well on people like yourself that are already super lean. Or, like anything else, different things work different for different people.

That's great feedback on Phosphatidic Acid. That excites me that you did so well off of it since we are going to be releasing one soon

Actually took it keto then also took it while I was just eating sorta crappy for a month. But I'll defer to you expertise... but then again possibly I could have gotten a lot fatter without it so who knows. I think its a very "healthy" supplement above and beyond fat loss, ie "exercise in a bottle" so if someone has the $ to spend then I'd say go for it.

But on paper it really is amazing.

Yes PA in the right dose is scary effective and works FAST.

 

[Bigwyatt]

Does PA have any negative sides? Specifically with lipids or bp?

 

[DieselNY]

Does PA have any negative sides? Specifically with lipids or bp?

Death like farts.

True story.

 

[sns8778]

Does PA have any negative sides? Specifically with lipids or bp?

Not that I know of.

 

[sns8778]

Actually took it keto then also took it while I was just eating sorta crappy for a month. But I'll defer to you expertise... but then again possibly I could have gotten a lot fatter without it so who knows. I think its a very "healthy" supplement above and beyond fat loss, ie "exercise in a bottle" so if someone has the $ to spend then I'd say go for it.

But on paper it really is amazing.

Yes PA in the right dose is scary effective and works FAST.

That's great to know on the PA; I may try high dosing it myself when ours comes out to see how it works for me.

And thank you, I appreciate that but I'm definitely no expert on MitoBurn. Learning it for sure, but I think with anything like this, there's always going to be people it doesn't work for. And like you said, sometimes its hard to know how bad fat gain would have been otherwise. I would guess ours is probably 4 to 6 weeks out. I'm cleaning my diet up next week and starting Lean Edge and will probably plug the MitoBurn in when it comes in; so I'll have a good baseline to go off of to see how it works for me. And I'm definitely not lean right now haha.

 

[thebigt]

No sides. 1 gram is Good. I like the ingredient for sure. Really good in thermoamp as all the ingredients work synergistically

ThermoAmp by Iconic Formulations

ThermoAmp by Iconic Formulations is the new non stim weight loss solution that will have you looking the way you want, without feeling the way you dont.

www.strongsupplementshop.com

considering the high quality and expensive of the 3 patented individual ingredients thermoamp is a great deal at $45.95 for a full month bottle.

 

[Alan1]

On paper it looks amazing but I'm not sure it lives it up it. I got a kg from NNB, took 3 to 5 GRAMS a day and unsure I noticed much.

I had essentially the same experience. Plowed through multiple tubs of Antaeus Labs BAIBA at up to 3 grams per day and can't say it added much, if anything, to enhance what I was already doing/using.

 

[thebigt]

I had essentially the same experience. Plowed through multiple tubs of Antaeus Labs BAIBA at up to 3 grams per day and can't say it added much, if anything, to enhance what I was already doing/using.

it might be one of those ingredients that adds additional benefits when used in a combo or stack...can't say, i've only used it in thermoamp and i CAN say thermoamp made a significant difference in bodyfat percentage without much change in diet or weight....several other guys have reported same results in the iconic formulations sub thread headed THERMOAMP REVIEWS---a lot of comments from actual buyers/users there.

 

[Irishobrien]

I've heard great results from people using 500 to 1000 mg. per day. Your experience makes me wonder a couple things (purely curiosity) if its maybe not as beneficial on keto, if there's a point of diminishing returns, or even if it doesn't work as well on people like yourself that are already super lean. Or, like anything else, different things work different for different people.

That's great feedback on Phosphatidic Acid. That excites me that you did so well off of it since we are going to be releasing one soon

there is actually a common geneotype which causes excessive BAIBA expulsion into urine. This appears to match a phenotype of less musculature but the research is in its infancy. People with this genotype may be BAIBA non-responders or need much higher doses. And keep in mind there is a big difference between the L-BAIBA and D-BAIBA. The former has benefit whereas the latter likely does not (in the context of fat loss, muscle gain, exc).

 

[sns8778]

there is actually a common geneotype which causes excessive BAIBA expulsion into urine. This appears to match a phenotype of less musculature but the research is in its infancy. People with this genotype may be BAIBA non-responders or need much higher doses. And keep in mind there is a big difference between the L-BAIBA and D-BAIBA. The former has benefit whereas the latter likely does not (in the context of fat loss, muscle gain, exc).

I know the MitoBurn is L-Baiba but I would worry about any generic material being the D type.

Good info on genotypes.

 

[thebigt]

there is actually a common geneotype which causes excessive BAIBA expulsion into urine. This appears to match a phenotype of less musculature but the research is in its infancy. People with this genotype may be BAIBA non-responders or need much higher doses. And keep in mind there is a big difference between the L-BAIBA and D-BAIBA. The former has benefit whereas the latter likely does not (in the context of fat loss, muscle gain, exc).

thermoamp uses L-BAIBA

 

[delsolrob]

As far as I'm aware, thermoamp is the highest dosed BAIBA product on the market.

ThermoAmp

A new evolution is here! The better stim free fat loss amplifier! ThermoAmp contains three patented ingredients proven to melt fat and amplify thermogenesis. Benefits of ThermoAmp may include: Increased Thermogenesis (Without Stimulants) Elevated/Amplified Caloric Expenditure Helps Mimic the...

iconicformulations.com

provides a daily dose of:
700mg L-BAIBA (MitoBurn)
90mg Grains of Paradise (CaloriBurn)
50mg Forslean 95

 

[Irishobrien]

As far as I'm aware, thermoamp is the highest dosed BAIBA product on the market.

ThermoAmp

A new evolution is here! The better stim free fat loss amplifier! ThermoAmp contains three patented ingredients proven to melt fat and amplify thermogenesis. Benefits of ThermoAmp may include: Increased Thermogenesis (Without Stimulants) Elevated/Amplified Caloric Expenditure Helps Mimic the...

iconicformulations.com

provides a daily dose of:
700mg L-BAIBA (MitoBurn)
90mg Grains of Paradise (CaloriBurn)
50mg Forslean 95

i personally hate Forskolin but will pick up a bottle of this for my love of BAIBA

 

[sns8778]

i personally hate Forskolin but will pick up a bottle of this for my love of BAIBA

We had been considering using Forskolin in one of our ideas for MitoBurn but its like people either love it or hate it. That's definitely and area that there's no pleasing everyone in.

 

[thebigt]

We had been considering using Forskolin in one of our ideas for MitoBurn but its like people either love it or hate it. That's definitely and area that there's no pleasing everyone in.

lol...c'mon man. no ingredient/product is going to please everyone!!!!

 

[thebigt]

i personally hate Forskolin but will pick up a bottle of this for my love of BAIBA

use my code THEBIGT and save 20% at iconic formulations.

 

[sns8778]

I have a question for everyone that wants us to do a MitoBurn product.

We are looking at using it in one or more items.
For the formula items, I would like to know what you'd like to see combined with.

It seems like the most common combination with this is with Forskolin and Aframomum (both Thermo Amp and Core's product combine those together) with Core's adding Sinetrol, which was another ingredient I had been looking at for awhile.

I have a formula in mind, but I'd love to hear input and ideas since its not final yet.

 

[Irishobrien]

I have a question for everyone that wants us to do a MitoBurn product.

We are looking at using it in one or more items.
For the formula items, I would like to know what you'd like to see combined with.

It seems like the most common combination with this is with Forskolin and Aframomum (both Thermo Amp and Core's product combine those together) with Core's adding Sinetrol, which was another ingredient I had been looking at for awhile.

I have a formula in mind, but I'd love to hear input and ideas since its not final yet.

Ive found that green tea (EGCG) and 6-paradol have the biggest synergistic effects through my robust experimentation.

 

[sns8778]

Ive found that green tea (EGCG) and 6-paradol have the biggest synergistic effects through my robust experimentation.

EGCG is a good option. I'm pretty sure we'll use Aframomum with it as well.

 

[Alan1]

I have a question for everyone that wants us to do a MitoBurn product.

We are looking at using it in one or more items.
For the formula items, I would like to know what you'd like to see combined with.

It seems like the most common combination with this is with Forskolin and Aframomum (both Thermo Amp and Core's product combine those together) with Core's adding Sinetrol, which was another ingredient I had been looking at for awhile.

I have a formula in mind, but I'd love to hear input and ideas since its not final yet.

I'd be all for trying a BAIBA product again and Aframomum would be a great addition (I'm really liking your Paradoxine product at the moment btw). Sinetrol does look somewhat promising from the bit of info I've seen, too.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on fucoxanthin as well as n-coumaroyldopamine and n-caffeoyldopamine as potential additions.

As for forskolin, I'm really not a fan FWIW. Every product I've tried with it leads to GI distress, though it has been a few years and I'd probably be willing to try it again.

 

[sns8778]

I'd be all for trying a BAIBA product again and Aframomum would be a great addition (I'm really liking your Paradoxine product at the moment btw). Sinetrol does look somewhat promising from the bit of info I've seen, too.

Would be curious to hear your thoughts on fucoxanthin as well as n-coumaroyldopamine and n-caffeoyldopamine as potential additions.

As for forskolin, I'm really not a fan FWIW. Every product I've tried with it leads to GI distress, though it has been a few years and I'd probably be willing to try it again.

I like Forskolin but I hear that so much that's why I'm hesitant to include it. It's a great ingredient but I think we may be better off to do a Forskolin separate and let the people that want to combine it do so themselves.

Fucoxanthin I haven't looked at in years so I would need to refresh my memory.

For the other two, I have looked into them but need to refresh my memory on them. I do remember reading that they are best taken with EGCG so that would go well with the idea above.

 

[AndroRage]

On paper it looks amazing but I'm not sure it lives it up it. I got a kg from NNB, took 3 to 5 GRAMS a day and unsure I noticed much.

Compare that to Mediator Phosphatidic Acid...NO comparison.(but BAIBA has other benefits and properties and is why I wantedto try it). I got so strong so fast on PA I hurt my shoulder going up in weights in the gym so fast. Was taking a LOT as well like 2500+mg actual PA content.

What’s the clinical studied amount PA content? I’m guessing it’s not 2500mg actual PA?

 

[sns8778]

What’s the clinical studied amount PA content? I’m guessing it’s not 2500mg actual PA?

750 mg. actual PA.

 

[DieselNY]

What’s the clinical studied amount PA content? I’m guessing it’s not 2500mg actual PA?

Like Steve said, 750mg.

I take a maintenance dose now and I'm convinced this can work similar to a creatine loading phase. Take a lot for a short period then cut dose down maybe in half for maintenance. I'm still getting strong.

 

[sns8778]

Like Steve said, 750mg.

I take a maintenance dose now and I'm convinced this can work similar to a creatine loading phase. Take a lot for a short period then cut dose down maybe in half for maintenance. I'm still getting strong.

You're correct on that. That was something they talked about when we spoke with them on licensing the ingredient was how the goal is to hit a saturation point.

In your case, just like you compared it to creatine loading, you super saturated on it and made great gains and got to a maintenance level in your body quicker and are still seeing good gains.

I'm pretty likely to take your approach when we release it and do a higher dose for a couple weeks to try to get there quicker and then go to the normal clinical dose - mainly because I really let myself go over the last 6 months and I'm impatient and want to get back in better shape asap

 

[Afi140]

No sides. 1 gram is Good. I like the ingredient for sure. Really good in thermoamp as all the ingredients work synergistically

ThermoAmp by Iconic Formulations

ThermoAmp by Iconic Formulations is the new non stim weight loss solution that will have you looking the way you want, without feeling the way you dont.

www.strongsupplementshop.com

10% off right now for anyone looking to cut up for the summer. Has mitoburn, caloriburn, and forslean for a 3 punch fat loss combo. Use code THERMOAMP10

 

[Segansational]

As far as I'm aware, thermoamp is the highest dosed BAIBA product on the market.

ThermoAmp

A new evolution is here! The better stim free fat loss amplifier! ThermoAmp contains three patented ingredients proven to melt fat and amplify thermogenesis. Benefits of ThermoAmp may include: Increased Thermogenesis (Without Stimulants) Elevated/Amplified Caloric Expenditure Helps Mimic the...

iconicformulations.com

provides a daily dose of:
700mg L-BAIBA (MitoBurn)
90mg Grains of Paradise (CaloriBurn)
50mg Forslean 95

This does look really good. I will have to pick some of this up.

I have a question for everyone that wants us to do a MitoBurn product.

We are looking at using it in one or more items.
For the formula items, I would like to know what you'd like to see combined with.

It seems like the most common combination with this is with Forskolin and Aframomum (both Thermo Amp and Core's product combine those together) with Core's adding Sinetrol, which was another ingredient I had been looking at for awhile.

I have a formula in mind, but I'd love to hear input and ideas since its not final yet.

I'm currently using 500 mg Mitoburn (BAIBA), 80 mg Caloriburn (grains of paradise) single ingredients. I'm definitely a fan of both ingredients.

Alpha Lion's Superhuman Burn has 500 mg/40 mg Mito/Caloriburn, and I liked that a lot as well.

 

[djbombsquad]

I used it in a local tea shops drink and seemed like they use almost a gram .

 

[delsolrob]

This does look really good. I will have to pick some of this up.I'm currently using 500 mg Mitoburn (BAIBA), 80 mg Caloriburn (grains of paradise) single ingredients. I'm definitely a fan of both ingredients.

Alpha Lion's Superhuman Burn has 500 mg/40 mg Mito/Caloriburn, and I liked that a lot as well.

if you like that, you're gonna love what we're working on

All Out - Sweat Edition Pre Workout

All Out - Sweat Edition Pre Workout Accelerated Fat Loss - Burn More Calories - Endurance - Energy - Focus Fully loaded thermogenic pre workout : 6 grams L-Citrulline Malate 1000mg PeakO2 3200mg Beta Alanine 150mg ElevATP 1000mg ALCAR 500mg L-BAIBA 200mg Theobromine 50mg Synerphrine HCL 50mg...

iconicformulations.com

 

[madmuscle24]

if you like that, you're gonna love what we're working on

All Out - Sweat Edition Pre Workout

All Out - Sweat Edition Pre Workout Accelerated Fat Loss - Burn More Calories - Endurance - Energy - Focus Fully loaded thermogenic pre workout : 6 grams L-Citrulline Malate 1000mg PeakO2 3200mg Beta Alanine 150mg ElevATP 1000mg ALCAR 500mg L-BAIBA 200mg Theobromine 50mg Synerphrine HCL 50mg...

iconicformulations.com

That looks good besides the l theanine lol. Any chance of leaving that out? Or maybe up the stims to offset the theanine effects?

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

I have a question for everyone that wants us to do a MitoBurn product.

We are looking at using it in one or more items.
For the formula items, I would like to know what you'd like to see combined with.

It seems like the most common combination with this is with Forskolin and Aframomum (both Thermo Amp and Core's product combine those together) with Core's adding Sinetrol, which was another ingredient I had been looking at for awhile.

I have a formula in mind, but I'd love to hear input and ideas since its not final yet.

yea forskolin would always have 2 sides .. those who love it and those who cant take it due to discomfort issues

i would say Aframomum & capismax ( that small mg dose does wonders

 

[delsolrob]

That looks good besides the l theanine lol. Any chance of leaving that out? Or maybe up the stims to offset the theanine effects?

Given the amount of stimulants, not just caffeine, I think this is going to be a great synergy.

 

[Afi140]

Given the amount of stimulants, not just caffeine, I think this is going to be a great synergy.

Formula looks dopeeeeee

 

[AndroRage]

Wouldn’t it be 112.5mg caffeine anhydrous per half scoop? Also I hate to sound negative but why 1g of Peak02? Why not just use the 2g which is generally the standard dosing (some people use 4g daily).

 

[delsolrob]

Wouldn’t it be 112.5mg caffeine anhydrous per half scoop? Also I hate to sound negative but why 1g of Peak02? Why not just use the 2g which is generally the standard dosing (some people use 4g daily).

Thank you for the feedback

A half scoop would be a little more caffeine than a cup of coffee (not to mention the Dynamine and dicaffeine malate). A full serving will provide the equivalent to 2.25 cups of coffee - again, not to mention the Dynamine and dicaffeine malate. I think this will be great for the vast majority of people. Maybe not enough for stim junkies - but that's not the product we're going for here.

PeakO2: There are some companies offering 2g, but the vast majority use 1g. There are a myriad of reasons for this, one of them is the flavoring - PeakO2 (essentially ground up mushrooms and has a really earthy flavor) works best with richer flavors like coffee, chocolate, pb, etc. However, the majority of pre workout ingredients have a more bitter or sour taste that is masked more effectively with tart pre workout flavors (this is why you don't find a chocolate flavored pre workout). Additionally speaking, we have other products in the roadmap that will also contain PeakO2 - that will make it easy for customers to get 2g+ daily

I'm not one to skimp on ingredients. I considered adding Alpha GPC to our pre workouts - but realized a large number of our customers already take EndoAmp pre workout and don't need/want another 600mg Alpha GPC. The same thing will be said for the PeakO2 and other products we'll be offering.

The truth is, I know this is going to be an outstanding product! It doesn't matter how awesome it's going to be, there will be people who wish it were stim free or wish it was higher stim, or who wish we had a particular flavor they prefer, or the flavor wasn't quite what they wanted....regardless, I'm quite positive it's going to kick ass.

 

[KnightVision]

I have a question for everyone that wants us to do a MitoBurn product.

We are looking at using it in one or more items.
For the formula items, I would like to know what you'd like to see combined with.

It seems like the most common combination with this is with Forskolin and Aframomum (both Thermo Amp and Core's product combine those together) with Core's adding Sinetrol, which was another ingredient I had been looking at for awhile.

I have a formula in mind, but I'd love to hear input and ideas since its not final yet.

Hello all, my first time posting. But have been following the research of these products and these boards, gaining some good insight. I did purchase the ThermoAmp recently, but was also weary of the Forskolin. As I have some issues with low heart rate and possibly blood pressure, I am still unsure if I want to try out the Forskolin. It would be great to see a product with just the Caloriburn (or paradoxine) and the MitoBurn BAIBA, with no Forskolin. Other than that, I think EGCG at 300mg total/day (so if two doses, 150mg/dose) would be a good addition, and leaving out caffeine - that's all to easy to get from other sources cheaply. Perhaps the Capsimax too, but just seeing the Grains of Paradise / BAIBA / (possible EGCG) combo would be great.

Some people say they don't notice anything with BAIBA. Has anyone tried ursolic acid as a way to increase brown fat? Perhaps switching out BAIBA for ursolic acid. Tho I've read that the currently available ursolic acid is junk as its from rosemary, and that it should come from apples. Probably not too economical to get UA from apples.

 

[sns8778]

Hello all, my first time posting. But have been following the research of these products and these boards, gaining some good insight. I did purchase the ThermoAmp recently, but was also weary of the Forskolin. As I have some issues with low heart rate and possibly blood pressure, I am still unsure if I want to try out the Forskolin. It would be great to see a product with just the Caloriburn (or paradoxine) and the MitoBurn BAIBA, with no Forskolin. Other than that, I think EGCG at 300mg total/day (so if two doses, 150mg/dose) would be a good addition, and leaving out caffeine - that's all to easy to get from other sources cheaply. Perhaps the Capsimax but just seeing the Grains of Paradise/BAIBA/(possible) EGCG combo would be great.

Thank you for sharing your opinion and insight. And if you ever have ideas you want to share or if I can help you and you don't want to post, you're always welcome to pm me.

I think very similar to what you said is actually the way we are looking at. I'm thinking MitoBurn, Green Tea (decaf; but a little higher dose than you put), Paradoxine or CaloriBurn, Bioperine, and maybe including Sinetrol &/or GlucoVantage. I was considering Capsimax or the GlucoVantage and could make an argument either way on that.

 

[KnightVision]

Thank you for sharing your opinion and insight. And if you ever have ideas you want to share or if I can help you and you don't want to post, you're always welcome to pm me.

I think very similar to what you said is actually the way we are looking at. I'm thinking MitoBurn, Green Tea (decaf; but a little higher dose than you put), Paradoxine or CaloriBurn, Bioperine, and maybe including Sinetrol &/or GlucoVantage. I was considering Capsimax or the GlucoVantage and could make an argument either way on that.

Thanks for the welcome, and being active with the consumers here.

Yes, I am very scientific being an engineer and I like to look at the research underpinning health products. Up to now, I've been following macros closely, eating clean, and using some of the more "normal" supplements (creatine, chlorella, vitamins, greens products, etc.) but now am looking to jump into the more advanced things. But of course, looking to use products that actually work and are safe long-term, to actually maintain or increase health. And those ingredients do seem effective.

Just personally, I'd like to avoid anything that could mess with blood pressure/heart rate (the glucovantage) so Capsimax or Sinetrol would be my vote. I like how Sinetrol does not contain bitter orange, avoiding any of the negative effects of that.

Lastly, I take PrimaVie Shilajit from nootropics depot. Something like that alongside the bioperine could help the effectiveness of all the ingredients.

Appreciate both the knowledge gained so far from these boards and the interaction between users and manufacturers.

 

[sns8778]

Thanks for the welcome, and being active with the consumers here.

Yes, I am very scientific being an engineer and I like to look at the research underpinning health products. Up to now, I've been following macros closely, eating clean, and using some of the more "normal" supplements (creatine, chlorella, vitamins, greens products, etc.) but now am looking to jump into the more advanced things. But of course, looking to use products that actually work and are safe long-term, to actually maintain or increase health. And those ingredients do seem effective.

Just personally, I'd like to avoid anything that could mess with blood pressure/heart rate (the glucovantage) so Capsimax or Sinetrol would be my vote. I like how Sinetrol does not contain bitter orange, avoiding any of the negative effects of that.

Lastly, I take PrimaVie Shilajit from nootropics depot. Something like that alongside the bioperine could help the effectiveness of all the ingredients.

Appreciate both the knowledge gained so far from these boards and the interaction between users and manufacturers.

Thank you. I appreciate that. I really enjoy helping people.

And thank you for the suggestions. This product idea will be totally stimulant free.

I could make an argument for or against the GlucoVantage being in there so I'm still deciding. I haven't seen anything about GlucoVantage as far as having any negative effect on blood pressure so I'll look into that. If you have any specific info, please message it to me.

I love PrimaVie myself. We use it in the Competitive Edge Labs M-Test & Anabolic Effect products and will be using it in an upcoming SNS product as well. I did mention that we would be adding Bioperine in the formula as well. I think PrimaVie could definitely be beneficial but the reason we wouldn't include it is because people don't associate it with fat loss so it would increase the cost of the product and people would look at it as an ingredient that didn't fit, although it actually does. Plus, we wouldn't want to do anything to maybe make people not want to use it with the other upcoming product that has it in there as well.