Mildest cycle
- Thread starter Pika
- Start date
mball52
Member
fura is non methyl if im not mistaken, so comparing it to something like hdrol or epi isnt very accurate. but i will say that most of the time, methyls do give much better results. hdrol, pmag, and epi are all rather mild methyls. just take a liver support and dont drink and all should be well. hope this helps.
swollen87
Well-known member
otc=more sides, difficult pct(generally)
test prop=cheaper, better gains, easier pct, predictable sides
people think that because ph/ds are legal, theyre safer than real aas....
thats not the case
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
Androlean is the most mild atm, PCT is recommended but not necessary (sustain alpha is enough for PCT). Use something non-methylated, at the very least.
mball52
Member
people use otc because they are legal. not necessarily the safety aspect. and if they dont know that they can potentially be harmful, they shouldnt be cycling anything in the first place.
gaijininjapan
Active member
"Harshness" can be relative or absolute. Same with "mild."
Most people choose orals because it's legal, nothing happens if you're caught with a cabinet full of OTC PH/DS supps, and you just gotta swallow a ton of pills per day (PH/DS + support supps). While the absolute values of orals are harsher from a biology standpoint, it is much milder for most people in terms of psychological and social standpoints. Injectables are the opposite. Since they are illegal in most areas, obtaining them is a bit more difficult, you have to inject, you're fukd if you're caught with them by law enforcement, and there's the social stigma associated with it. However, I do agree that most injectables are less taxing on your health.
Most people choose orals because it's legal, nothing happens if you're caught with a cabinet full of OTC PH/DS supps, and you just gotta swallow a ton of pills per day (PH/DS + support supps). While the absolute values of orals are harsher from a biology standpoint, it is much milder for most people in terms of psychological and social standpoints. Injectables are the opposite. Since they are illegal in most areas, obtaining them is a bit more difficult, you have to inject, you're fukd if you're caught with them by law enforcement, and there's the social stigma associated with it. However, I do agree that most injectables are less taxing on your health.
EasyEJL
Never enough
Why do you want to start on something mild? You want to risk screwing up your endocrine system and your cholesterol for mediocre results if any?
Also injecting seems more harsher ..... Its hard tho as loads people say diffrent things
Why does injecting seem harsher? Sure if you use something like tren, but if you do a reasonable injected testosterone cycle you are just increasing the amount of something that is already in your body instead of taking some non-tested, non-regulated chemical that may or may not be whats written on the label.
and you are in the UK, if i recall correctly its not criminal to posess testosterone for injection, just to sell it.
BURNT DICE
Member
Are you saying H-drol gives everyone gyno?
swollen87
Well-known member
im sayin ive seen it happen to too many people
at least half if not more than half of the people i know whove used otc steroids ended up with gyno/ ugly muffed up nips
Pika
Member
You mske a real good point and yes im in uk and the law is you cant buy them or sell them but you can use them and own them ( weird ay ) lol
The reason i say mild is people say its best but when put it like thst i guess your right why would i do a cycle of domthin mild if it could mess me up anyways hmm im starting a cycle maybye winter i have bodyfat thst needs to go thats why i was thibkin of takin h drol .......
So what would you sujjest as my first cycle bro? Also is it a diffrent law over there?
The reason i say mild is people say its best but when put it like thst i guess your right why would i do a cycle of domthin mild if it could mess me up anyways hmm im starting a cycle maybye winter i have bodyfat thst needs to go thats why i was thibkin of takin h drol .......
So what would you sujjest as my first cycle bro? Also is it a diffrent law over there?
BURNT DICE
Member
I appreciate your feedback. I am not disagreeing with you but rather appreciate your feedback and it is def good to hear both sides of the story! So, thanks!
To be frank i am in the middles of my first PH cycle on H-drol. I was going to do 50/50/75/75/75 but have stayed at 50 for week 3 and am considering just doing 50/50/50/50. I am seeing good gains anyway and am up 10lbs after 19 days and it is just starting to really kick in. I did pre-bloodwork have good support supps a SERM, test booster and even an AI for PCT if I choose. I did lots of research and didn't just start popping pills.
What I would like to know though....and to be fair, would say that many of those "half of people" probably didn't do it right, have a SERM, used something harsher than H-drol (like Mdrol/Superdrol), overdosed it, etc... I have heard some bad stuff, but I have to say the majority of people's logs I've read that did H-drol as best it CAN be run viewed it positively in the end.
swollen87
Well-known member
if ur gunna do it, do it right... i can tell youve done your research
the people i know personally that have gotten gyno ran a typical hdrol cycle with a serm...
it seems to be more of a prolactin issue than an estrogen issue... but now heres the big debate... how can any of these "dht derived" otc steroids be causing prolactin issues....
from what ive seen in my gym/friends/ect the people who used otc steroids were more likely to get gyno than ppl using test alone
BURNT DICE
Member
I haven't been cutting.
I've been doing a clean bulk, or maybe a recomp. I would say I am up 3-4lbs of fat and 6-7 lbs of muscle so far I would guess.
Swollen - I'll take your work for it, and I know a serm is needed for more than gyno protection, but H-drol doesn't aromatize they say. you said, "it seems to be more of a prolactin issue than an estrogen issue... but now heres the big debate... how can any of these "dht derived" otc steroids be causing prolactin issues...."
so...are you suggesting that the composition of the compounds is different that what they are saying. Not sure what you meant here is all. can you elaborate a bit more?
I've been doing a clean bulk, or maybe a recomp. I would say I am up 3-4lbs of fat and 6-7 lbs of muscle so far I would guess.
Swollen - I'll take your work for it, and I know a serm is needed for more than gyno protection, but H-drol doesn't aromatize they say. you said, "it seems to be more of a prolactin issue than an estrogen issue... but now heres the big debate... how can any of these "dht derived" otc steroids be causing prolactin issues...."
so...are you suggesting that the composition of the compounds is different that what they are saying. Not sure what you meant here is all. can you elaborate a bit more?
BURNT DICE
Member
I see, thanks. Well, if there is a next time it will likely not be oral. To be honest i wanted to legally test the waters with something as beginner as possible with fewer risks and that is how H-drol was billed from my reading.
Slightly off topic, but one question I have been wondering about. If I can still get hard and drop a load, does that mean I am definitely NOT shutdown, or can you be shutdown and still able to perform?
Slightly off topic, but one question I have been wondering about. If I can still get hard and drop a load, does that mean I am definitely NOT shutdown, or can you be shutdown and still able to perform?
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EasyEJL
Never enough
a moderate testosterone cycle of 400mg a week for 10-12 weeks is pretty realistic
I have blood tests with single digit testosterone levels that were drawn in the morning, and I had sex the night before.
BURNT DICE
Member
point taken
BURNT DICE
Member
So, if you were in my shoes (and I can tell you never would be but)....being at day 19 with low(er) dose H-drol so far, what would you do. I mean, from my understanding I am probably too far in to just drop it with no PCT, right. Would you just stop now and PCT, continue to do a full month at 50 and stop, or just go ahead and "might as well just finish it off however you want" kinda thing. I mean, at this point will it make any difference what i do. Will my odds be better if I cut it shorter and/or keep the dose lower or have I made my bed so to speak. So far no sides or gyno for me, but if I did start to tingle/inch would I want to take that as a sign to start my SERM/PCT immediately? From my understanding, even if I did get gyno, a SERM and/or an AI at the thrid week would likely reverse that too, correct?
EasyEJL
Never enough
Not that halodrol is harsher, but not as safe as testosterone.
BigBlackGuy
Well-known member
No. You'll most likely lose more hair on testosterone and most likely have higher levels of estrogen on testosterone (though it's not a bad thing to have estrogen, also you may not be prone to estrogen related side effects).
The point is, you can control both of those side effects relatively well. AIs and DHT blockers. Also, you won't incur any liver damage from testosterone as opposed to hdrol. Methyls also seem more harsh on the lipids.
If you're opposed to injecting or buying illegal steroids, check out Primordial's Invalid Link Removed They are non-methyl and safer than most of the steroids on the market.
swollen87
Well-known member
Thsnks bro, i dont think im going to go for test il just do a h drol cycle i want my hair
if your prone to hairloss, hdrol and test will both do it to u
BURNT DICE
Member
With respect, that's a bit misleading. Hdrol is much less likely to cause hair loss. I by no means mean to say H-drol is better or safer, but it is considered rare to get hair loss from h-drol. I can tell you are not a fan of methylated PHs, and perhaps justifiably so, but let's be straight forward here. I also think it is a little suspect to suggest that ~50% of people get gyno from PHs. I'm not going to call you out on that as i don't know who your friends are and your specific experiences, but those kind of numbers seem unrealistic to me.
BURNT DICE
Member
Easy and Swollen have a good point that PH's should not be taken lightly and they are generally considered more dangerous (contrary to what you might think) ESPECIALLY if you don't know what you're doing. To be frank Pika I don't think you've read enough yet and are ready and I am certainly not the best person to ask for advice. Both of these guys know lots more than I do. My best advice to you would be to spend a number of months reading into it and following along the threads and asking questions to people with high rep status. Keep in mind before I made the decision to take the plunge I read into it for a year, got my diet in check long before I considered taking anything, trained clean for a couple years, got bloodwork done from my doctor that said I'm healthy and then posted info on all my plans to be reviewed by those who know more than me to see what i might be missing. I say this for your own benefit bro...keep reading!
BD
BD
Pika
Member
Thanks, i have been reading for months bro i know i need a serm and i need cycle sups etr etr ...
I was just qoundering whats your cycle like? What you using for pct, im going to order this or fura a i want least sides so fura a is less sides but less gains ... If i would run a fura a cycle at 150/200/200/250/250/300
Will that be just as harsh on sides as h drol? Thanks
I was just qoundering whats your cycle like? What you using for pct, im going to order this or fura a i want least sides so fura a is less sides but less gains ... If i would run a fura a cycle at 150/200/200/250/250/300
Will that be just as harsh on sides as h drol? Thanks
BURNT DICE
Member
To be honest, I don't know.
If you like you can look at my log " first ph cycle with h-drol" and my cycle is all laid out. For pct I am going with a SERM (nolva), a test booster (activate xtreme) and I have an Ai ( inhibit-e) but I am undecided if I will use that yet.