Mid cycle bloods - probably the best they’ve ever been

[Whisky]

So on 9 weeks (of a 16 week blast) of the following:

600 test cyp
600 deca
100mg Ed anadrol
4iu Ed hgh
20mg gw (for lipids)

loads of supports - I’ve posted my natty supp list a few times but there’s a lot.

bloods below - personally I think that aside from it showing my UGL is legit AF it shows what positive impact gw and other supports can have - I think I should be way more fucked than these show at this stage. Comments welcome

 

[Burnfire]

So on 9 weeks (of a 16 week blast) of the following:

600 test cyp
600 deca
100mg Ed anadrol
4iu Ed hgh
20mg gw (for lipids)

loads of supports - I’ve posted my natty supp list a few times but there’s a lot.

bloods below - personally I think that aside from it showing my UGL is legit AF it shows what positive impact gw and other supports can have - I think I should be way more fucked than these show at this stage. Comments welcome

Your on 600mg of test and your test is in the 400? My 200mg of trt puts me over 1500.

 

[kl1234]

Your on 600mg of test and your test is in the 400? My 200mg of trt puts me over 1500.

Look at the reference range...

 

[Burnfire]

Look at the reference range...

Not sure what you mean with the ...... but I'm driving. Why do you tell me about the reference range

 

[Drolball]

Not sure what you mean with the ...... but I'm driving. Why do you tell me about the reference range

Ref range is 8.64 - 29

 

[Whisky]

Your on 600mg of test and your test is in the 400? My 200mg of trt puts me over 1500.

Your on 600mg of test and your test is in the 400? My 200mg of trt puts me over 1500.

im in the U.K. bro....nmol/L

 

[Whisky]

Your on 600mg of test and your test is in the 400? My 200mg of trt puts me over 1500.

its roughly the same as you being 15,000 - 20,000

 

[Burnfire]

im in the U.K. bro....nmol/L

Ah that explains it. I was like am missing something.

Appreciate the reply on the reference @Drolball
Driving now

 

[Whisky]

Ah that explains it. I was like am missing something.

Appreciate the reply on the reference @Drolball
Driving now

no worries bro. No idea why we use a different measure in the uk

 

[Mathb33]

Lol yeah his test levels is the equivalent of like 5000-6000 TT or something here lol . Great bloods btw.

 

[Drolball]

Curious with estro out of range would you increase AI or is the ratio more important?

 

[Mathb33]

Curious with estro out of range would you increase AI or is the ratio more important?

Estrogen slightly out of range is very good for growth. As long as he doesn’t have side effects and can handle it he’s going to growth much more SLIGHTLY out of range than let’s say middle range

 

[Whisky]

Estrogen slightly out of range is very good for growth. As long as he doesn’t have side effects and can handle it he’s going to growth much more SLIGHTLY out of range than let’s say middle range

this - I’m on a bulk and estrogen is essential for growth. I dose an ai at the lowest level to avoid gyno problems (currently 12.5mg asin a week). I wait for the nipple sensitivity to show up then dose (as it works so quickly)

 

[Mathb33]

this - I’m on a bulk and estrogen is essential for growth. I dose an ai at the lowest level to avoid gyno problems (currently 12.5mg asin a week). I wait for the nipple sensitivity to show up then dose (as it works so quickly)

I reeally understood this late 2020 and my growth as litterally exploded. I really was overdoing the AI for a little while by trying to keep it within mid range I was litterally blocking gains away

 

[CroLifter]

Obviously lipids are fuked because of anadrol. Other than that looks good.

 

[Whisky]

Obviously lipids are fuked because of anadrol. Other than that looks good.

honestly, after 9 weeks of 100mg a day on anadrol I would have expected them to be more fucked. It’s not even close to concerning imho.....

gw and NAC seem to be doing a sterling job.

 

[SouthPawSD]

honestly, after 9 weeks of 100mg a day on anadrol I would have expected them to be more fucked. It’s not even close to concerning imho.....

gw and NAC seem to be doing a sterling job.

Looking surprisingly good. It always make you feel good when you have proof your UGL is legit and your not just injecting yourself with some unknown substance.

Out of curiosity, Do you have bloods to compare with previous cycles around the 9 week mark? I know it wouldn't be with the same compounds, but I'd be interested to see how it would compare. You make me a believer that GW is worth it just for the lipid benefit.

 

[THOR 70]

That free androgen index tho

SHBG is super low. Take anything for that?

 

[mawalega]

I am a believer in nac and glad to see gw treating you well. Makes me not regret my 200 or so caps bought primarily for lipid benefits.

 

[Whisky]

That free androgen index tho

SHBG is super low. Take anything for that?

nothing specific tbh. Not using boron etc

 

[CroLifter]

That free androgen index tho

SHBG is super low. Take anything for that?

He is on 2 grams a week combined.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

Bloods look awesome considering!

How r the gains?

 

[Whisky]

Bloods look awesome considering!

How r the gains?

good mate, in terms of size it’s a touch disappointing I’m only up around 14lbs but I’m holding way less water than I have done previously and it’s far better quality mass. I’ve definitely lost out on some size not getting enough calories in consistently though, adrol does kill the appetite and my work is has gone crazy due to covid so I actually had to work full days (normally I could do 4-5 hours a day no probs) which cut into eating time. Made some adjustments and it’s better now so hoping to push another 10 + lbs before the end.

strength is really decent. Pre blast I put up the following
squat - 170kg
Bench - 115kg
Dead - 210kg (I had a glute issue that stopped me pulling heavy for a few months before this. 215-220 was where it had been for a while.

currently

squat 162.5 x 5
Bench 110 x 6
Dead 190 x 6

 

[KvanH]

I reeally understood this late 2020 and my growth as litterally exploded. I really was overdoing the AI for a little while by trying to keep it within mid range I was litterally blocking gains away

I will use this convo as a poor transition for my question; Do you guys allways take the sensitivity test when testing for E2? None of the labs here don't seem to offer it where I could go get blood tests without doctor's referral. Is the 'non sensitive' test of any value, you think?

 

[Whisky]

I will use this convo as a poor transition for my question; Do you guys allways take the sensitivity test when testing for E2? None of the labs here don't seem to offer it where I could go get blood tests without doctor's referral. Is the 'non sensitive' test of any value, you think?

to the best of my knowledge the sensitive test just provides better accuracy from a smaller blood sample.

so yes I would always want it as clearly it’s better to have a tight handle on exact numbers but what I don’t know is the margin for error.

I think there would be a value, as in you could see if you are ‘low’ or ‘high’ but it depends on why you are testing.

personally I want to be quite tightly dialled in above range but just shy of problems, it’s a relatively tight window. If I didn’t have precise figures I’d be inclined to up my ai dosage slightly to bring me into range rather than risk being too high whereas I don’t have that concern if that makes sense.

basically sensitive is what you ideally want but non sensitive better than nothing for sure imo

 

[KvanH]

to the best of my knowledge the sensitive test just provides better accuracy from a smaller blood sample.

so yes I would always want it as clearly it’s better to have a tight handle on exact numbers but what I don’t know is the margin for error.

I think there would be a value, as in you could see if you are ‘low’ or ‘high’ but it depends on why you are testing.

personally I want to be quite tightly dialled in above range but just shy of problems, it’s a relatively tight window. If I didn’t have precise figures I’d be inclined to up my ai dosage slightly to bring me into range rather than risk being too high whereas I don’t have that concern if that makes sense.

basically sensitive is what you ideally want but non sensitive better than nothing for sure imo

Ok I've just read people recommend the sensitive test when it comes to E2 for men. And last time I took bloods with cycle I had TT at 7,5 nmol/l and E2 at 0,10 nmol/l at the last week of the cycle and then after 4 weeks of Tamox TT at 20,2 nmol/l and E2 again at 0,10 nmol/l. So that precisely same E2 reading further raised my concern about the accuracy.

But I was taking some AI with the Tamox as I already had semi high E2 compared to TT, so could be accurate still. Just a well tuned in AI use thrown in with luck I guess.

Trying to order bloods now to see where I stand with months without anything hormonal and can't find a lab that would offer the sensitive test, so I guess the regular test is the best I can get.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

good mate, in terms of size it’s a touch disappointing I’m only up around 14lbs but I’m holding way less water than I have done previously and it’s far better quality mass. I’ve definitely lost out on some size not getting enough calories in consistently though, adrol does kill the appetite and my work is has gone crazy due to covid so I actually had to work full days (normally I could do 4-5 hours a day no probs) which cut into eating time. Made some adjustments and it’s better now so hoping to push another 10 + lbs before the end.

strength is really decent. Pre blast I put up the following
squat - 170kg
Bench - 115kg
Dead - 210kg (I had a glute issue that stopped me pulling heavy for a few months before this. 215-220 was where it had been for a while.

currently

squat 162.5 x 5
Bench 110 x 6
Dead 190 x 6

**** yeah! Nice numbers!

 

[Whisky]

**** yeah! Nice numbers!

cheers dude. Actually just put up 162.5kg for 8 on squat.....(my coach programs an AMRAP during this phase that allows us to keep aligned with the gear, so the session was 4x5 at 162.5 then a final amrap at that weight, for every rep over 5 the starting weight goes up by 2.5kg next week.....)

trying to get to your levels mate

 

[Jinsun]

Lol yeah his test levels is the equivalent of like 5000-6000 TT or something here lol . Great bloods btw.

No. 400 nmol/l is precisely 115368 ng/dl. 5k to 6k would make more sense on 400mg yes but alas his TT is at 11k.

@Whisky your TT would imply that your test is severely overdosed. 500mg/ml range. This are numbers for 1.5g of test/week. But seeing as you aren't complaining about pip I doubt that this is really the case. So you are either metabolising the test extremely well or it's severly overdosed and you are not having pip (or both combined) or the labs are wrong

Your E2 is also low for this level of free test/TT. 12.5mg's of asin/week is nothing really. How much aromasin do people usually need at 1.5g's?

Also, you either have a bullet proof liver or you metabolise orals really well? Nac is not keeping your alt/als this low. 9 weeks on 100mg's anadrol dayum. I mean, i know that in studies and in real life scenarios anadrol can be used for prolonged periods of time, but seeing this values, you could be on it for the whole year lawl. At least in regards to liver health.

Are you concerned about creatinine?

 

[Whisky]

No. 400 nmol/l is precisely 115368 ng/dl. 5k to 6k would make more sense on 400mg yes but alas his TT is at 11k.

@Whisky your TT would imply that your test is severely overdosed. 500mg/ml range. This are numbers for 1.5g of test/week. But seeing as you aren't complaining about pip I doubt that this is really the case. So you are either metabolising the test extremely well or it's severly overdosed and you are not having pip (or both combined) or the labs are wrong

Your E2 is also low for this level of free test/TT. 12.5mg's of asin/week is nothing really. How much aromasin do people usually need at 1.5g's?

Also, you either have a bullet proof liver or you metabolise orals really well? Nac is not keeping your alt/als this low. 9 weeks on 100mg's anadrol dayum. I mean, i know that in studies and in real life scenarios anadrol can be used for prolonged periods of time, but seeing this values, you could be on it for the whole year lawl. At least in regards to liver health.

Are you concerned about creatinine?

hey @Jinsun , thanks for the comments bro. I agree there’s some interesting aspects here.

I would have also redone labs if this were a one off but 150mg test from the same UGL puts me over range (multiple bloods showing it) and they have a great reputation (including for overdosing rather than under).

the only possible conclusion I could draw was that I am metabolising it well and naturally have low levels of conversion to e2. I’ve never needed any significant ai (if at all). The thing I don’t know is if any of my natural supplements are playing a part here. I suspect they may be but there are so many (and I don’t take them specifically for that reason) that I’ve not been able to work through and see (listed below to see if anyone happens to know of any link)

re the liver, I do know some of the natty supps play here (like tumeric) and milk thistle (which I forgot to mention in my initial post. I’m also a former alcoholic (was drinking 1.5L vodka a day for years) and whilst I eventually gave myself 1st stage cirrhosis it recovered very quickly after stopping and for years my values were ok even on that booze (I haven’t had a drink for 8 years now) - I believe I am fortunate in that my liver is pretty adapt at dealing with this ****.

the creatinine was definitely a concern as it came back about the same level in my pre cycle bloods and I’d not really looked at it before. The fact it hasn’t worsened was a comfort and the doctor comment (I tell them everything I’m on) was that it wasn’t a concerning number for someone engaged in strength training.

In terms of confidence to keep pushing on kidney health is always my top priority and egfr was 88 so that’s why I’m so stoked with these bloods as an overall. Defo some things to watch and some surprises but nothing that I can apply some logic to if that makes sense

natty supps - year round


Hyaluron acid
Black garlic
CoQ10
Bitter melon extract
Red yeast rice extract
Asraxanthin
K2
D3
Green tea
Oregano oil
Probiotic
Ginger
Multi vit
Ashwagandha
Bergamot fruit
Black seed oil
Alpha GPC
nattokinase
Fisetin
Beef liver powder
Betaine hcl
Fenugreek
Mushroom complex
Resveratrol
Quercetin
Milk thistle
Clove powder
Berberine
Metformin
Fish oil
Tumeric
Colostrum
Cinnamon
Green coffee bean extract
Glucosamine sulphate
Greens powder
Taurine
NAC
TUDCA
EAA’s
Creatine
Collagen peptides
Choline bitartrate
Pine bark extract
AAKG
Astragalus
Blueberry extract
NR
NMN
ZMA

 

[Mathb33]

@Jinsun lol broski if he was on test only your ratio would be perfectly correct it would be 11 000 TT and indeed it wouldn’t make sense but he is on deca man... deca gives false results and skews with someone’s TT. Deca can easily falsely double your TT levels.

 

[Mathb33]

@Whisky sorry bro you’re not metabolising test like a god and your total test isn’t that high that would be completely crazy deca is just messing with the results. Just like tren gives false estrogen readings. I still think your TT is very high though and that you’re a good responder.

 

[Whisky]

@Whisky sorry bro you’re not metabolising test like a god and your total test isn’t that high that would be completely crazy deca is just messing with the results. Just like tren gives false estrogen readings. I still think your TT is very high though and that you’re a good responder.

fair point. Did wonder about deca. Didn’t think it was known for screwing the reading as much as tren though......

total test numbers make no difference in some ways as the higher they are doesnt equal more gains anyway, it’s the balance with estrogen and health markers that I think are the key as obviously not fucking my self completely means I’m well placed to keep pushing on.

 

[Mathb33]

Yes the only way to separate them and get a very accurate reading is to get this type of test thru blood work : Chromatography tandem Mass Spectrometry (LC/MS-MS) Total Testosterone test.

If you don't get that specific assay, your test results are going to be wildly inaccurate. More plates more dates made a long post about it showing that people with low T could even bring their t levels upper range / out of range with simply deca. He also showed how off levels can be with deca. Regardless as you said it doesn’t really matter.

 

[Jinsun]

@Jinsun lol broski if he was on test only your ratio would be perfectly correct it would be 11 000 TT and indeed it wouldn’t make sense but he is on deca man... deca gives false results and skews with someone’s TT. Deca can easily falsely double your TT levels.

Oh, ... didn't even think about deca. That makes more sense now : D

 

[Jinsun]

Hyaluron acid
Black garlic
CoQ10
Bitter melon extract
Red yeast rice extract
Asraxanthin
K2
D3
Green tea
Oregano oil
Probiotic
Ginger
Multi vit
Ashwagandha
Bergamot fruit
Black seed oil
Alpha GPC
nattokinase
Fisetin
Beef liver powder
Betaine hcl
Fenugreek
Mushroom complex
Resveratrol
Quercetin
Milk thistle
Clove powder
Berberine
Metformin
Fish oil
Tumeric
Colostrum
Cinnamon
Green coffee bean extract
Glucosamine sulphate
Greens powder
Taurine
NAC
TUDCA
EAA’s
Creatine
Collagen peptides
Choline bitartrate
Pine bark extract
AAKG
Astragalus
Blueberry extract
NR
NMN
ZMA

Khm, ... Bro ...

 

[johnny412]

hey @Jinsun , thanks for the comments bro. I agree there’s some interesting aspects here.

I would have also redone labs if this were a one off but 150mg test from the same UGL puts me over range (multiple bloods showing it) and they have a great reputation (including for overdosing rather than under).

the only possible conclusion I could draw was that I am metabolising it well and naturally have low levels of conversion to e2. I’ve never needed any significant ai (if at all). The thing I don’t know is if any of my natural supplements are playing a part here. I suspect they may be but there are so many (and I don’t take them specifically for that reason) that I’ve not been able to work through and see (listed below to see if anyone happens to know of any link)

re the liver, I do know some of the natty supps play here (like tumeric) and milk thistle (which I forgot to mention in my initial post. I’m also a former alcoholic (was drinking 1.5L vodka a day for years) and whilst I eventually gave myself 1st stage cirrhosis it recovered very quickly after stopping and for years my values were ok even on that booze (I haven’t had a drink for 8 years now) - I believe I am fortunate in that my liver is pretty adapt at dealing with this ****.

the creatinine was definitely a concern as it came back about the same level in my pre cycle bloods and I’d not really looked at it before. The fact it hasn’t worsened was a comfort and the doctor comment (I tell them everything I’m on) was that it wasn’t a concerning number for someone engaged in strength training.

In terms of confidence to keep pushing on kidney health is always my top priority and egfr was 88 so that’s why I’m so stoked with these bloods as an overall. Defo some things to watch and some surprises but nothing that I can apply some logic to if that makes sense

natty supps - year round


Hyaluron acid
Black garlic
CoQ10
Bitter melon extract
Red yeast rice extract
Asraxanthin
K2
D3
Green tea
Oregano oil
Probiotic
Ginger
Multi vit
Ashwagandha
Bergamot fruit
Black seed oil
Alpha GPC
nattokinase
Fisetin
Beef liver powder
Betaine hcl
Fenugreek
Mushroom complex
Resveratrol
Quercetin
Milk thistle
Clove powder
Berberine
Metformin
Fish oil
Tumeric
Colostrum
Cinnamon
Green coffee bean extract
Glucosamine sulphate
Greens powder
Taurine
NAC
TUDCA
EAA’s
Creatine
Collagen peptides
Choline bitartrate
Pine bark extract
AAKG
Astragalus
Blueberry extract
NR
NMN
ZMA

you buy all those separate?

 

[bigthug]

So on 9 weeks (of a 16 week blast) of the following:

600 test cyp
600 deca
100mg Ed anadrol
4iu Ed hgh
20mg gw (for lipids)

loads of supports - I’ve posted my natty supp list a few times but there’s a lot.

bloods below - personally I think that aside from it showing my UGL is legit AF it shows what positive impact gw and other supports can have - I think I should be way more fucked than these show at this stage. Comments welcome

Damn thats a heavy bulking cycle

 

[Whisky]

you buy all those separate?

yeah, my supps bill is a little excessive (and each of those is one or two pills, a few are 3, so it’s a lot of swallowing each day )

 

[KvanH]

yeah, my supps bill is a little excessive (and each of those is one or two pills, a few are 3, so it’s a lot of swallowing each day )

Breakfast?

Invalid Link Removed

 

[KvanH]

Looking at your supp list I have tried most of them at some point, but oregano oil is a new one. What's it for? For me it brings to mind pizza, lol.

 

[Jinsun]

I've been taking berberine app 1g/day now for 3 weeks. It helps enormously with not farting at all. It doesnt help me with bloating though. I've read that it works kinda as an antibiotic, helping to promote healthy gut bacteria and kill the bad, or something like that.

Why do you take it? Besides BG for GH use.

 

[Mathb33]

Yeah this supp list is absolutely insane lol. Jesus bro!!

 

[johnny412]

yeah, my supps bill is a little excessive (and each of those is one or two pills, a few are 3, so it’s a lot of swallowing each day )

OMG! lol

 

[johnny412]

yeah, my supps bill is a little excessive (and each of those is one or two pills, a few are 3, so it’s a lot of swallowing each day )

i heard you would swallow but damn! lol!

 

[johnny412]

I've been taking berberine app 1g/day now for 3 weeks. It helps enormously with not farting at all. It doesnt help me with bloating though. I've read that it works kinda as an antibiotic, helping to promote healthy gut bacteria and kill the bad, or something like that.

Why do you take it? Besides BG for GH use.

i take it for blood sugar effects...suppose to be a metformin alternative...

 

[Whisky]

Breakfast?

Invalid Link Removed

that’s actually not far off, I counted them up recently and it was something like 70 pills and 10 powders (I mix the powders all together and chug it - worse taste you can imagine)

 

[Jinsun]

i take it for blood sugar effects...suppose to be a metformin alternative...

I

I literally said "besides BG for GH" : )

 

[Whisky]

Looking at your supp list I have tried most of them at some point, but oregano oil is a new one. What's it for? For me it brings to mind pizza, lol.

oregano oil I got onto from Ben greenfield, it’s a natural antibiotic (it’s linked to other benefits like potentially preventing some cancers etc but it’s specifically in my list for antibiotic properties)

 

[Whisky]

I've been taking berberine app 1g/day now for 3 weeks. It helps enormously with not farting at all. It doesnt help me with bloating though. I've read that it works kinda as an antibiotic, helping to promote healthy gut bacteria and kill the bad, or something like that.

Why do you take it? Besides BG for GH use.

berberine is purely there for the BG benefits, apparently it works synergistically with metformin and low glycemic variability is heavily linked to improved longevity so I take it year round (along with met, bitter melon extract and cinnamon).

I don’t deny potentially being overkill on that front btw