thats is were the problem lies..
you get a guy who has used dermatrest, and compares it to mentabolan.. there are a lot of people who get pre work out benefits from it.. infact id say profound.. whereas Dermatrest is so underwhelming when used at label dose. if those same people ran dermatrest at say 200-300 mg per day then your going to get a much different story..
conversely, those who have ran trest aceatate in a TD formula will tell you its the other way around ( again some people really like that pre work out kick from the oral) and TDs dont give that effect. so there will always be hold outs for mentabolan.. but in general, the TD ace will smoke the oral in any appreciable way at a low dose of around 33mgs per day.. if you can handle 100 mgs per day you will never pin again. unless of course your source falls off the map