Mediator PA

[Rad83]

What’s the current view on this ?
I’m curious why it’s one of the more expensive supps? ...What’s a legit dose?

Thanks

 

[DEVANS89]

300mg is the dose

As the why is expensive?

Not a clue because mediator patented it and want to make
Money and then it’s a Knock on effect

 

[Resolve10]

What’s the current view on this ?
I’m curious why it’s one of the more expensive supps? ...What’s a legit dose?

Thanks

Not sure why it’s so expensive other than the company who makes it owns the exclusive rights (not sure if they just drive the price up or if it’s hard to extract....).

750mg is the dose in the studies, you’ll want 1500mg if material as Mediator should be a 50% extract.

Soy Lecithin can be rich in PA so many have gone that route to get it in a cheaper way. Fearns Soy Lecithin shows the amount per serving and many eat 2tbs of this to achieve adequate dose for cheap.

The studies show promising results but reviews tend to be a bit mixed (and more sparse due to price), while the actual researchers and the studies themselves have some skeptics (to put it nicely).

 

[DEVANS89]

Not sure why it’s so expensive other than the company who makes it owns the exclusive rights (not sure if they just drive the price up or if it’s hard to extract....).

750mg is the dose in the studies, you’ll want 1500mg if material as Mediator should be a 50% extract.

Soy Lecithin can be rich in PA so many have gone that route to get it in a cheaper way. Fearns Soy Lecithin shows the amount per serving and many eat 2tbs of this to achieve adequate dose for cheap.

The studies show promising results but reviews tend to be a bit mixed (and more sparse due to price), while the actual researchers and the studies themselves have some skeptics (to put it nicely).

Thought it was 300mg? Usually split into 150mg two caps?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Thought it was 300mg? Usually split into 150mg two caps?

It’s definitely 750mg PA per day, or 1500mg of 50% PA. Often split into 450mg pre-workout and 300mg post-workout IIRC?

 

[Rad83]

Has anyone tried this and seen any legitimate strength increases?

 

[Jeremyk1]

It’s definitely 750mg PA per day, or 1500mg of 50% PA. Often split into 450mg pre-workout and 300mg post-workout IIRC?

Yes, 750 was the studied dose, however preworkout dosing is the most common recommendation. I think that’s also what was done in the studies, not 100% sure though.

As far as results, I tried it a while back, got some muscle fullness, but no strength gains. Wasn’t worth the price. I believe there’s new research showing that PA doses with whey protein actually decreases the mTOR boost that should be seen with each, but I’d need to double check on the details there. Honestly, I really don’t think there’s much to it. If you find it cheap, might be worth a try.

I do remember when I first looked it up a long time ago (before it was patented and obviously much cheaper) I read about some people getting decent results off 1500mg. These days, that’s very cost prohibitive, but that’s actually how I dosed it and I saw very little.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Yes, 750 was the studied dose, however preworkout dosing is the most common recommendation. I think that’s also what was done in the studies, not 100% sure though.

As far as results, I tried it a while back, got some muscle fullness, but no strength gains. Wasn’t worth the price. I believe there’s new research showing that PA doses with whey protein actually decreases the mTOR boost that should be seen with each, but I’d need to double check on the details there. Honestly, I really don’t think there’s much to it. If you find it cheap, might be worth a try.

I do remember when I first looked it up a long time ago (before it was patented and obviously much cheaper) I read about some people getting decent results off 1500mg. These days, that’s very cost prohibitive, but that’s actually how I dosed it and I saw very little.

I’ve seen both dosing schemes used in studies; I just double checked it to make sure. Some used 750mg at once, some split it 450mg and 300mg.

 

[Darkhorse192]

I thought the consensus was to double the 750 dose to actually see anything?

Like King V.1 and Phosphas muscle weren't people saying you had to double up the dose to make it worth it which made it insanely expensive?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I thought the consensus was to double the 750 dose to actually see anything?

Like King V.1 and Phosphas muscle weren't people saying you had to double up the dose to make it worth it which made it insanely expensive?

I actually enjoyed it at the standard dose, and even more at double dose. With the granules, there’s a range, so I always opted to hit at least 750mg with the minimum standardization (4%), which meant I was probably getting more (if it was actually between 5-7%). But the granules are cheap enough, so going even a bit higher isn’t a bad thing really.

 

[Rad83]

Since I posted this (wow can’t believe it’s almost a year!) I’m seeing more of these PA supps on Amazon....

Has anyone else experimented with it? ...Just curious if it’s a worthwhile pct addition in the future.

 

[totalpackage]

Since I posted this (wow can’t believe it’s almost a year!) I’m seeing more of these PA supps on Amazon....

Has anyone else experimented with it? ...Just curious if it’s a worthwhile pct addition in the future.

Some mentioned lecithin granules was a good source and last I checked Ferns is $6.50 a can over at
Swanson Vitamins for I think a months supply so I don't think you can go wrong with that

 

[Darkhorse192]

Some mentioned lecithin granules was a good source and last I checked Ferns is $6.50 a can over at
Swanson Vitamins for I think a months supply so I don't think you can go wrong with that

There was a time at like end of 2015/2016 where everyone on here was obsessed with that supp. People had it on their "staple" and "going to take it forever" list. Then like a year later everyone was off it and it has not been talked about here since. I never jumped on it, but I figured if it was as great as the hype train said it was, why did it die off so hard?

 

[totalpackage]

There was a time at like end of 2015/2016 where everyone on here was obsessed with that supp. People had it on their "staple" and "going to take it forever" list. Then like a year later everyone was off it and it has not been talked about here since. I never jumped on it, but I figured if it was as great as the hype train said it was, why did it die off so hard?

Your completely right it did die off and I remember people were comparing it to Muscle Tech's product
and they were saying it was cheaper to use over MT's caps that they had out. I used the Fern's granules
at 2 tbs a day and honestly it's been a while but if I remember correctly what I saw was more muscle fullness
throughout the day but again its been a while and honestly forgot about the product. I shop with Swanson
all the time so I think on my next order I'll grab 3 cans and run it again and refresh my memory.

 

[Lynks8]

There was a time at like end of 2015/2016 where everyone on here was obsessed with that supp. People had it on their "staple" and "going to take it forever" list. Then like a year later everyone was off it and it has not been talked about here since. I never jumped on it, but I figured if it was as great as the hype train said it was, why did it die off so hard?

You’re absolutely right. It was huge. Olympus Labs even put lecithin powder in Tr1umph, if anyone remembers that. Like most supp fads, the granules died. That said, I always liked them:
-Cheap
-Contain a large amount of various phospholipids that provide myriad benefits, (e.g. phosphatidylcholine)
-Still the only supp I’ve ever taken that even comes close to providing an “all day” pump. While it’s not huge, the muscle fullness is def noticeable, especially if you’re at a low BF %.

 

[thebigt]

You’re absolutely right. It was huge. Olympus Labs even put lecithin powder in Tr1umph, if anyone remembers that. Like most supp fads, the granules died. That said, I always liked them:
-Cheap
-Contain a large amount of various phospholipids that provide myriad benefits, (e.g. phosphatidylcholine)
-Still the only supp I’ve ever taken that even comes close to providing an “all day” pump. While it’s not huge, the muscle fullness is def noticeable, especially if you’re at a low BF %.

tr1umph was my favorite 'all in one product' of all time...can't believe OL said they discontinued because of poor sales?

 

[aaronuconn]

tr1umph was my favorite 'all in one product' of all time...can't believe OL said they discontinued because of poor sales?

Same fate as Ergonine.

Let’s hope the soon-to-be version from SNS stays around for the long haul

 

[thebigt]

Same fate as Ergonine.

Let’s hope the soon-to-be version from SNS stays around for the long haul

people spend money on the dumbest stuff and worthwhile products get dc'ed, go figure...props to steve and SNS for chancing a product like this!!!!

 

[DieselNY]

Some mentioned lecithin granules was a good source and last I checked Ferns is $6.50 a can over at
Swanson Vitamins for I think a months supply so I don't think you can go wrong with that

Fearn lecithin granules are the BB communities best kep secret. Infact my buddy just stopped by to grab a few cans. Works fkin amazing. You wont regret it. That being said it does interfere with my fasting regimen (180 cals per dosage) so I just picked up a kilo of Mediator PA (I own a supplement brand so I have access to these guys) and plan to start up next week.

But phosphatidic acid is awesome. The real deal is expensive or just get Fearn soy lecithin. 2tbsp 3 x a day is killer! 3600mg PA!

 

[Slims]

I really enjoyed my months on PA back in 2015-2017. Cuter's King first and then onto MusceTech's PhosphaMuscle, both Mediator PA, at 750mg per day. I actually got some decent results from it, I even ran it solo to really test it out. It is ludicrously expensive though, which is why I stopped taking it and the granules just aren't as good as MediatorPA.
It's up there witn ARA in my opinion and I look forward to the upcoming SNS product with PA in it

 

[totalpackage]

Fearn lecithin granules are the BB communities best kep secret. Infact my buddy just stopped by to grab a few cans. Works fkin amazing. You wont regret it. That being said it does interfere with my fasting regimen (180 cals per dosage) so I just picked up a kilo of Mediator PA (I own a supplement brand so I have access to these guys) and plan to start up next week.

But phosphatidic acid is awesome. The real deal is expensive or just get Fearn soy lecithin. 2tbsp 3 x a day is killer! 3600mg PA!

You do 2tbs 3x a day When I ran it I did 2 tbs first thing in the a.m. when I got out of
bed and that's it and I still saw some good muscle fullness.

 

[DieselNY]

You do 2tbs 3x a day When I ran it I did 2 tbs first thing in the a.m. when I got out of
bed and that's it and I still saw some good muscle fullness.

Yup! Loved it

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

people spend money on the dumbest stuff and worthwhile products get dc'ed, go figure...props to steve and SNS for chancing a product like this!!!!

yup great well dosed products dont sell much .. lets hope pple get board on with SNS and help newbies learn what product really matters .. me and the owner had many discussions about it and yeah very hard to put out a product like we will be doing knowing previously products didnt do well.

us vets will def enjoy and love it .. planning on running it year around

 

[thebigt]

yup great well dosed products dont sell much .. lets hope pple get board on with SNS and help newbies learn what product really matters .. me and the owner had many discussions about it and yeah very hard to put out a product like we will be doing knowing previously products didnt do well.

us vets will def enjoy and love it .. planning on running it year around

absolutely

 

[BCseacow83]

yup great well dosed products dont sell much .. lets hope pple get board on with SNS and help newbies learn what product really matters .. me and the owner had many discussions about it and yeah very hard to put out a product like we will be doing knowing previously products didnt do well.

us vets will def enjoy and love it .. planning on running it year around

It has to be pitched as "If I could only take one product outside of protein, this would be it." There are many people who just want to get protein and maybe one other thing and just be done with it. Many, many customers do not want to think about or even care about their supplements anymore than they think about their belt, shoes or gym bag. They just want something that works and is not a steroid lol. These are the one's who IMO need to be targeted by an all in one/ED ergogenic.

Us on here always looking at new **** we are the worst because, I personally am SO GUILTY OF THIS, even when something does work we think maybe, just maybe the new shiny one will work BETTER. lol Then a year or two later we bitch when they DC a product we have not bought in over a year lol. We are the worst lol.

 

[brundel]

Mediator is hands down the most expensive ingredient I have ever seen.
nearly 18$ to add it to a product. In comparision Peak02 is about 2$.
Full bottle of 8g vegan aminos 2.5$
Honestly at roughly 10X the cost to use in a product it just isnt worth if from a brand owner perspective.
And when we tested it the results were lackluster.

 

[DieselNY]

Mediator is hands down the most expensive ingredient I have ever seen.
nearly 18$ to add it to a product. In comparision Peak02 is about 2$.
Full bottle of 8g vegan aminos 2.5$
Honestly at roughly 10X the cost to use in a product it just isnt worth if from a brand owner perspective.
And when we tested it the results were lackluster.

Yeah cost is high compared to other ingredients. Most companies sell their PA product for $1.25 - $2.00 retail per gram of PA and thats not figuring the fact that it's standardized at 50% so 1gm = 500mg.

Direct cost for Mediator is 30 cents per gram and cheaper if buying in big bulk.

Unsure if it will $18 to add to a product? Should be a bit cheaper maybe $14 if doing say 60 caps at 750mg/cap. Then again I'm talking true cost of a kg and not factoring in production costs so your number is probably accurate.

Still that's a fortune compared to something like EAA, 30 serving tub is sub $9/$10 fot a small production run and even cheaper when running a large number of units.

I recently grabbed a kilo of Mediator to play with since I love lecithin granules but I can't see ever making this a product as it would be one of the priciest single ingredients out there. If so then I can see why brands charge $55 to $90 a bottle. But even that's nuts..$18 cost and sell for $90? Lol

 

[brundel]

I agree
Current price quote for mediator

Pricing
Mediator® 50P Phosphatidic Acid: (PA); 50% min.
conc. PA powder.
$331.50 / Kg
So approx 15$ per 30 servings at 1500mg.

It has dropped a bit. Was 17 and change 2019.
But yea, if you add in manufacturing costs, bottle, caps, labels etc youll easily hit 18-20 from 15.

This makes it largely past budget caps for any single ingredient product for most companies and forget about it if you want more than just PA. Im not sure if you have used PA but its not that amazing. I mean solo its pretty lackluster. I cant imagine anyone wanting to pay 50$ for it let alone 70-90.
Cheminutra has drastically missed tha mark here. They think that ramping up their prices will make them a bunch of profit but they just dont understand that if it was lets say half of the cost it would sell 500% more probably because companies might be able to justify its use.

For us its just nowhere near the value required.

 

[DieselNY]

I agree
Current price quote for mediator

Pricing
Mediator 50P Phosphatidic Acid: (PA); 50% min.
conc. PA powder.
$331.50 / Kg
So approx 15$ per 30 servings at 1500mg.

It has dropped a bit. Was 17 and change 2019.
But yea, if you add in manufacturing costs, bottle, caps, labels etc youll easily hit 18-20 from 15.

This makes it largely past budget caps for any single ingredient product for most companies and forget about it if you want more than just PA. Im not sure if you have used PA but its not that amazing. I mean solo its pretty lackluster. I cant imagine anyone wanting to pay 50$ for it let alone 70-90.
Cheminutra has drastically missed tha mark here. They think that ramping up their prices will make them a bunch of profit but they just dont understand that if it was lets say half of the cost it would sell 500% more probably because companies might be able to justify its use.

For us its just nowhere near the value required.

I respond super well to lecithin granules at 2tbsp 3 x a day but it really isn't practical taking it pre workout at 430am and doesn't fit in with my fasting schedule. So I got a kilo of Mediator PA just so I can get straight phosphatidic acid without all the cals and fat. And just like lecithin, the strength increase is immediate plus noticeable soreness which I never ever get sore. Its pretty cool to say the least.

Cant say I'd ever sell this as a product or think its worth it for people to pay $60+ retail but for my own experimentation and cost ($309/kg) its fun for sure.

I do take a hefty dose though of 7500mg (3750mg PA) a day in divided doses. I like to push the envelope on dosing to see if it's worth it. Did the same with BAIBA which I was unimpressed with (3g a day) and same thing with InnoSlim...

Im impressed with PA but only at cost which is the equivalent of $13.50 a bottle with a retail street value of $60 - $70+.

But I'm as impressed and happy with lecithin granules at $9/tub which gives you 1200mg of phosphatidic acid x 30 doses. So for those who can fit the extra fat and calories and dont have any concern with possible increase in inflammation (which can be rough for some) then lecithin granules is the way to go.

 

[brundel]

7500mg per day is quite alot.
Anything noticeable happen? I mean for something people claim is so effective you would think 500% dose would be amazing.

 

[TheIronAsylum]

sns is the hero we need



OL is sell out trash

 

[De__eB]

I agree
Current price quote for mediator

Pricing
Mediator® 50P Phosphatidic Acid: (PA); 50% min.
conc. PA powder.
$331.50 / Kg
So approx 15$ per 30 servings at 1500mg.

It has dropped a bit. Was 17 and change 2019.
But yea, if you add in manufacturing costs, bottle, caps, labels etc youll easily hit 18-20 from 15.

This makes it largely past budget caps for any single ingredient product for most companies and forget about it if you want more than just PA. Im not sure if you have used PA but its not that amazing. I mean solo its pretty lackluster. I cant imagine anyone wanting to pay 50$ for it let alone 70-90.
Cheminutra has drastically missed tha mark here. They think that ramping up their prices will make them a bunch of profit but they just dont understand that if it was lets say half of the cost it would sell 500% more probably because companies might be able to justify its use.

For us its just nowhere near the value required.

Unless they know they can produce <x> total volume of their phospholipid ingredients, and optimize their price spread across the four of them to maximize both production and profit.

What if increasing their total production 5x would require significant capital investment on capacity increases while not actually increasing gross profits all that much?

If I can produce 1000 units for $5 and sell for $15, I make $10,000
If I can produce 5000 units for $5 and sell for $7.5, I make $12,500, but I spent $100,000 on capacity increases?

That ROI is obviously too far out to make sense, it's also exaggerated for example purposes.

I'd imagine the real world reasoning is somewhere in there though, capital investment over increase in gross not providing a fast enough ROI to be worth it to their parent company.

 

[DieselNY]

7500mg per day is quite alot.
Anything noticeable happen? I mean for something people claim is so effective you would think 500% dose would be amazing.

Very quick and noticeable increase in strength, I feel sore very often and at 47yrs old and 34yrs of training under my belt I never ever feel sore or get DOMS unless I do some crazy high rep super/monster set during a workout. So thats something I notice 100%.

I have the full/pump/tightness feeling all the time, sorta feels like the good ol days when we used to load on creatine for a week.

I do have a really bad flare up in my golfer and tennis elbow..going to get a cortisone shot tomorrow because the usual at home rehab I do is not helping.

I do not know what to attribute this too. Could have been the 2 weeks of lecithin granules (all those omega 6 causing issues? I have RA so I am sensitive to these things). Or could be just not eating as "clean" as I usually do during this covid crap but I have been eating like this for 6 moths so youd figure I would have gotten flare ups a while back. Eating crap = flare ups for me after a while.

So I can't say this elbow pain is related to Mediator PA but could be related to phosphatidic acid/lecithin granules or total coincidence (I also ran out of my fish oils right when I started lecithin and fish oils work wonders for my RA and inflammation)....... This is one of the reasons I stopped Lecithin and went to strait PA to just use straight PA and avoud the calories and omega 6 that comes along with the granules.

Oh and the farts are BRUTAL from the Mediator PA and my buddy notices the same thing (hes taking lecithin granules).

Mediator PA/Lecithin - comes on quick like creatine, soreness (inflammation? good?)... will it lead to "gains" we shall see but I am much stronger in the past few weeks and I do have more of a 3d look/veins in my biceps that I only get when I am dieting so that is also very noticeable.

 

[brundel]

Do you get these results at the dose its normally sold at?
750mg

 

[DieselNY]

Do you get these results at the dose its normally sold at?
750mg

Ive never done just the 750mg dose, I'm sorta a more is better type of guy. If say after a few more weeks I'd go down to a maintenance dose of 750mg and see if I notice a reduction in what positives I'm experiencing.

I take 3600mg PA from lecithin and its awesome. (1200mg 3 x a day)

Im pretty much doing the same mg with pure Mediator PA.

Only cost effective if using lecithin granules which would work out to 30 days at 3600mg and $27+ for a month. (2tbsp = 1200mg)

Same dose with Mediator PA at COST =$90/month. I think I can safely say I feel a bit more of this constant pump and soreness from straight Mediator PA (definitely the soreness) but I'd tell everyone try soy lecithin first, its legit!