M4OHN- Post your results!!

I think a lot people including myself want something to cut with that won't give heavy sides.
If you can make some decent gains without sides, why up the dose until you notice sides?
Some people don't want or aren't ready yet to risk possible health problems.
 
It's new so I think people are just taking the cautious route..and wisely so. From playing around with it I think you're probably right, the dosing could go higher for bulking purposes. Since it came out in late spring nearly everyone was using it for cutting.
 
Rogue Drone said:
In my experience, A superb Product for bodyfat reduction and increased muscle definition, with strength increases and a general increase in energy. I felt 10mgs of M4OHN (Designer, of course) for 29 days was comparable in effects and feel to a previous 30 mg Anavar cycle . I felt great from start to finish on it.

I'd estimate it reduced my body fat by 20% on not too clean a diet, saw a noticeable increase in muscular definition and a strength increase of about 15%. I wasn't fat or weak to start with and was pleasantly suprised at how apparant the effects were.

For PCT, I did just 6-oxo, a continuation of M4OHN's Aromatase Inhibition. I did'nt want to do a SERM (Toxo) from a position of Low E (the Aromatase inhibition of the 4-OH) and no apparant or previously reported test shutdown, my study would indicate that a SERM at the time of Low E with an expected quick rebound in HPTA could have an agonist effect on the E receptors.
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Did you run the m4ohn alone? 5mg 2 times a day right?
 
Rogue Drone said:
Yes, Alone. I tried both 5X2 and 10X1, felt considerably more from 10X1. I think Designer (F***LG and HM's untested high cost crap) M4OHN is truly great stuff, a best buy in Anabolics.

My next cycle will be M4OHN, a mass PH and M5AA pre-workout.
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Awesome. Congratulations on your cycle.
What time of day did you take the entire dose? Morning, afternoon, evening?
 
Rogue Drone said:
For PCT, I did just 6-oxo, a continuation of M4OHN's Aromatase Inhibition. I did'nt want to do a SERM (Toxo) from a position of Low E (the Aromatase inhibition of the 4-OH) and no apparant or previously reported test shutdown. My study would indicate that a SERM at the time of Low E with an expected quick rebound in HPTA could have an agonist effect on the E receptors.
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Let me pick your brain here for a minute. What would your opinion be on PCT if you did 1-Test Cyp alongside this? I will run 30mg/day of M4OHN and 600mg/weekly 1-Test Cyp and my plan is to use Clomid(normal dosing protocol) for 4 weeks and Formestane the first 2 weeks PCT(only at 100mgs first week, 50mgs second week, daily) alongside the Clomid.
 
to add to Sir Foxx's question, when you run the M5AA are you going to use nolva as part of your PCT?
 
Kristopher said:
is that a typo that you lost 20% BF in 29 days on M4OHN?
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I had to read it twice also, but I'm pretty sure he meant he lost 20% of his body fat (ie he was 10% and now he's 8%)
 
Interesting that you preferred the single dose method as to a split. I was planning on 3
4mg doses daily, but this has me curious. I know there were previous threads about this and
I read them, but since this is a new ph, does any one else have any comments on what dosing
scheme worked well for them?
 
This seems like lame reasoning, but if you take it split up, it seems like more would be broken down and destroyed by the stomach/liver. But if you take it all together, maybe a larger chunk goes through? I dunno, thats just the way I saw it, but it may/probably is wrong.

Haha, its kinda like Gladiator or Troy. When the troops stick together "one big dose" instead of split up, they get through the defenses.. but if they are split up, they all die. lol
 
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Rogue Drone said:
Your PCT looks right to me. The 4-OH compounds of M4OHN and M4OHT appear to be unique Prohormones, in that you are taking an AI oncycle and probably having a minimal drop in HPTA. When you a run a combination,though, assume the 4-OH as AI is helping, but not sufficently well to not use Clomid or Nolva. I have nothing against Nolva, it's the way to go, except when E levels are low. Nolva is a Estrogen Receptor Modulator, an antagonist when E levels are high, an agonist when they are low.

Generally speaking for PCT I believe moderate (like a pattern of weeks 2,3,4,4 doseage levels instead of the standard 1,2,3,4) of both a SERM and an AI is the way to go. Attack from two angles,without overreliance on one.

An alternative method, that would work for the above combo and what I"ll be trying in the future, is to run a AI and a small daily dose of HCG oncycle. I'd rather deal with conversion and suppresion as I go, rather than play catch up afterwards.In theory, minimal conversion and test suppresion would better prevent E and DHT complications and more effectively keep the gains from an adequate level and quick rebound to full test levels. At that point, I'll be going to pre, half way through and post bloodwork as well, to more accurately quantify these protocols.
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You shouldn't run AI's during your PCT. By doing this, you're asking for trouble. This is actually doing the opposite than what you originally thought. Chances of gyno after running PCT is amplified greatly due to the overall E rebound taking place since it was inhibited the whole time.

You also say that you don't want to use nolva, why? Nolva isn't going to cause any problems with estrogen. This is because you don't have much test left when starting PCT to begin with. So the need to supress excess estrogen isn't needed...do you understand what I'm trying to say here bro?

I would stick to using nolva for PCT and during if prone to gyno. And then of course if wanting to control bloat while on, (which you won't have to anyways) then use the formestane, but other Anit-E's are still a much better option here...
 
Rogue Drone said:
Not a fan of PCT with 6-oxo or formadrol, huh? I'm not a fan of Formadrol either, but the concept of AI and SERM together has merit, IMO.I don't like Formadrol because 4-OHA has anabolic deratives and Daizen is a crappy Phytoestrogen, it has virtually zero RBA to the ER, it's just pissed away.

Here's my rationale, similar to the concept of Formadrol. An AI to inhibit conversion of T to E, and boosts Test through increase LH output. The AI I will use is a clinically proven test booster, all the AI's I've seen are, to one degree or another. The SERM is to insure that any T to E conversion that might be getting by the AI is blocked at the ER by the SERM, but not too much will be used, because there should be little E getting through and SERM's are not a good idea to introduce in the position of Low E. THe SERM (Nolva) will also increase LH output to boost test levels.

End result is, theoritically, no E effect and a double measure to boost T as fast as possible. I start with a moderate dose of each, enough to be effective but not excessive, and taper down to prevent any possible rebound effect.

The AI/HCG method is to inhibit and keep the test production up throughout the cycle in small doses of 250 to 500IU daily. It's an extension of the above, I'll probably run low dose Nolva anyway as an extra precaution.

I don't like the concept of test crash followed by recovery in PCT, I'd prefer to try and maintain levels and output as I go along.
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I see what you mean and if it works for you then great. I was just trying to explain that even if you do use you an AI during your PCT to raise T levels (btw, I haven't ever seen any studies confirming this) it still wouldn't help with excess estrogen because there is none during your PCT....you see what I'm saying?

IOW's and AI is to control excess estrogen from Test conversion....but during PCT, your T levels are low so your E levels will be low as well. So there is really no need to try and control estrogen during PCT because once again, there isn't any to be worried about.

But if the little raise in T levels from the AI you're using helps you recover well then by all means keep at it. My main point was again, that if only using it for excess estrogen, it's not necessary. And the raise in T levels is also something that I've never read about before...

Hopefully you see where I'm coming from... :)
 
So who here is bulking using m4ohn? Which brand are you using, cause I hear alot of problems about the quality issues. How long have you been on it, what was the dose per day, and talk about your gains.

Has a correct dosage been found yet? I am 215 lbs and 6'3".. would a 16mg a day dose do it for me for a 4-5 week cycle?
 
Rogue Drone said:
Jergo, I understand were you're coming from, I appreciate the input in how to build a better machine. If you look for studies on AI's ability to positively affect LH and test, you'll find them. I have them on Letrozole, Armidex, Fadrozole and Exemestane, but they're in .pdf form,I can't cut and paste excerpts here.
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Sweet man...I'd like to look at them.. :thumbsup:
 
I also think you're going overboard trying to control est. during PCT. Your body desires a certain balance, and if you limit estrogen too much, this is where the estrogen rebound theory comes from. I just don't see enough benefit of completely eliminating estrogen (which with an AI can happen, after seeing some blood tests users have posted) during PCT.
 
Darius,

I would go with Designer Supplements M4OHN (one of the board sponsers). They test each
batch for quality. 16 mg is probably about right for you at 215. Most people aren't using
it for bulking, at least not as a stand alone. You could stack it with m1,4ad or 1-test for
a lbm or bulking cycle. There are other possibilities as well.

I haven't used it yet (about to start a cutter with it soon), but I don't think that it would be too
effective for a bulking cycle, although it is good for strength gains.
 
Rogue Drone said:
Yeah, you're probably right, E is a scary thing for us old guys. I would'nt continue eliminating E, I know that's bad for the Cardio system, Brain, Bones and it's cancer preventative benefits.

Everytime I try to upload a .pdf here, I get a server failure notice. I"ll forward the one .pdf study I have on this machine to you at cyber-rights. It'll also be coming from Cyber-rights. It's a study that quantifies Letrozole's positive effects on LH and Test in Men . The profile on Fadrozole, as described in this study, is very similar.

It's the study entitled " Trunet PF, Trunet PF, Mueller P, Bhatnagar AS, Dickes I, Monnet G & White G 1993 Open dose-finding study of a new potent and selective nonsteroidal aromatase inhibitor, CGS 20 267, in healthy male subjects. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism 77 319–323

at Invalid Link Removed a collection of references on AI's effects.
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Hey thanks bro....I'll give those a look when I get some time. Don't feel bad, I went to school for computers and I still have a hard time with 'em...hehe..
 
I'm also getting an error, I'll let you guys know when it gets fixed :frustrate

OK, well it works if I zip it, so there it is :thumbsup:
 

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Week 1: 8mg/day M4OHN | 20mg/day M5AA
Week 2: 12mg/day M4OHN | 20mg/day M5AA
Week 3: 16mg/day M4OHN | 20mg/day M5AA

Starting weight: 170lb
Starting BF: 14%

Sunday weight: 168
no measurement of BF, but i look the same.

No increase in strength or vascularity either. It's a cutting cycle, and my diet hasn't changed for weeks (it's been a cutting diet for months), but neither has my weight or bf.

I had much better results with S1+ (1test/4ad for 4 weeks) as a cutting agent.

Here's how my summer cutting went:

4 weeks of CKD diet that brought me from 190lbs and 20% bf to about 175lbs and 17%.
Then:
4 weeks of S1+ with still the same diet and it brought me down to 170lbs and 14-15% bf. So definitely some lean muscle gain while losing some fat at the same time.
4 weeks of PCT where i pretty much stayed at these numbers.
Into the 3rd week of M4OHN/M5AA at the above dosages, and i don't see much change.

I was only going to make the M4OHN/M5AA a 4 week cycle, but i'm going to up the dosage again to 20mg/day of M4OHN next week and extend it for a total of 6 weeks and see how it goes (my clen won't be here for another couple of weeks anyways).
 
Chemdreamer, good luck with the rest of your summer cut bro, looks like you've been hitting it hard...

Roguedrone, pretty good man, but like I said before as well as Weave, inhibiting E during PCT is just not an option for myself. To me, the benefits don't outweigh the negatives...along with the fact that it could possibly cause a huge E rebound when discontinuation occurs and gyno flares up...just not for me..

Also, I would like to see more studies on SERMS in conjunction with the many anti-E's...I know that Letrozole and Nolva together are a definite no-no...good reading nonetheless...
 
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