I would trust D59 on this one too (see above post) as he has been using this a log time. I just started about a week ago. 4mg at the start and kept add 4mg everyday, I got to 24mg yesterday and think I might just hold there for awhile. I started to get that hard, dense feeling in my muscles when I hit 12mg, so I'm thinking 30 or 40 might not be needed. I didn't take a lot of measurements like bf or lift strengths, because this wasn't going to be a 'real' cycle, I just wanted to see if I liked it on a shorty. My starting weight was 206 and 7 days later has remained unchanged and I must say, my strength has improved significantly. Very slight acne, but no other sides yet. BP is fine.