M1T/Tren E Cutter

[Cardinal]

This isn't the brainiest cycle I have ever thought up. But it is working quite well so far as a cutter. I started on December 21st. I'll get bloodwork done probably about 6 weeks after I am off the M1T and will monitor blood pressure while on.

Starting Stats:

Date: 12-21-06
Age: 27
Height: 6'2"
Bodyweight: 220
Arms: 16.5-16.7"
Waist: 39 - 39 3/8"

Drugs

Tren E - 400mg EW X 10 weeks
Nicotine gum
Multi/Fishoil
Milk thistle
M1T @ 15mg ED for about 4 weeks
Meridia @ 10-15mg ED (will acquire this by 1-7-06)

Lifting and Cardio

Push/Pull/Legs and elliptical training at least 45-60', 5x per week.

 

[Cardinal]

Progress

Date: 1-7-06
Bodyweight: 216 (today)
Lowest Arm Measurement: 16.5" (today)
Lowest Waist Measurement: 37" (today)

M1T

Great appetite suppression so far. I normally have bad muscle cramps on it but have been able to avoid them this time by using a higher carbohydrate cutting plan. Muscle retention has been perfect. Haven't lost a thing. Strength is up modestly. Libido is at about 50% power which is really nice considering I don't have a g/f now. No hair shedding whatsoever to date and it has been nearly 3 weeks. The only lethargy I am noticing has made it a bit tougher to get up in the mornings. I have also slept like a baby. Normally I have a little insomnia dieting and M1T has counteracted that quite nicely. Overall, I feel good on M1T. My mood has been quite calm, which I appreciate.

Testosterone

I am not planning on using any this cycle b/c I am tired to having to put in gobs of hairloss medications. I know at least three drugs cause hairloss for me; M5aa, 1-Test and Test. I believe M1t may not cause any problem.

Tren

I have never run it by itself. I am betting against the odds and speculating that it won't cause hairloss by itself. If it does increase shedding, I will use topical spiro cream to combat it. That worked fine the last time I ran tren last year. I lost a little hair from that cycle but I think it was due to infrequent use of topical hairloss aids and mainly test.

I started the Tren E yesterday. It will take about 2 weeks for it to take effect on me I think. I am not concerned about libido loss and Tren has never given me headaches in that department in the past.

Diet and Cardio

I have been able to keep calories consistently around 1800-2200 kcals per day. Protein has been somewhat lacking. I have been doing well with the cardio so far. I can easily hit 45'-60' per day on it, with a couple of days off a week.

 

[pistonpump]

i wouldnt approve of a cycle like this, no way!

are you taking support supplements? liver, bp, etc...?

Guess your not worried about shutdown are you?

M1t as a cutter i have thought of but used as a cutter for its appetite destruction is interesting made me think it might really be a good cutter.

 

[Cardinal]

Pistonpump,

Yes. I am taking milk thistle at 1.5g/day for liver protection. For blood pressure, I have a prescription for Toprol XL (I have 50 and 100 mg tabs), enough to last me the whole cycle and then some. My highest blood pressure reading so far has been 142/75. If this doesn't improve when I stop taking M1T in a week, I will use toprol to bring it down to normal ranges. It is highly effective for me. I expect to need it for tren as well.

M1T seems to limit cravings in a big way. It gives good but not perfect overall control. As long as I keep some carbs in there I feel great on it appetite-wise. It is major overkill for a cut though, quite powerful and more than I technically need for preserving muscle tissue.

I am considering adding saw palmetto as a long-term prostate supplement. There are some prostate health supps in my multi but I plan to add a bit more.

I am not too concerned about shutdown, but I have toyed with the idea of running some HCG according to swale's protocol.

 

[Cardinal]

I now have L-meridia as an appetite suppressant. I am going with a 10-15 mg daily dose. When I stop M1T soon, I am hoping this will keep appetite where it needs to be. I did a fair amount of research on it and it seems not to have any substantive cardiovascular side effects. Headache and dry mouth being two of the biggies to watch out for.

Mine is made by aries research labs. That is quite possibly the worst tasting crap I have ever tried. I am officially capping it at this point. Sunnydelight helped a little with the taste but not much!

I won't be able to give good feedback on how well it works now since I am on androgens and they all seem to effect appetite to some degree or another. Tren seems to lower appeite a bit for me too believe it or not.

 

[jomi822]

if you are worried about hair loss then tren and m1t are two of the worst things you could possibly use. also murder on libido...

 

[Cardinal]

When it comes to hairloss I have learned one thing at least. The only way to see if a compound causes problems in that area is to try it alone. I really think it is a crapshoot. So far so good with M1T. I may not lose any hair at all from it. Tren does have me concerned though. But even if it does cause hairloss I have effectively combated it with spiro in the past. Tren is harsh any way you look at it. That is why I plan on getting bloodwork done while on this time (I suspect things have returned to normal after post cycle therapy for me in the past and I'd like to see the real damage done while I am using). My bloodwork in the past has always looked really pretty. The only elevation I have had is in liver enzymes from M1T, but they were near normal range even back then. And now I have good bp medicine available to me.

There are a few basic complaints I have about running test in general. It aromatizes and I tend to get fat/not be able to cut quite so easily on it. I am not big on running anti-e's in general, especially for long periods of time! I get gyno flare-ups every time I use it even at low doses. I shed hair like its my job. The libido I get from it is distracting to the point of me not being able to think about other things in life. It also raises blood pressure for me and I am afraid that stacking it with something like tren just exascerbates that. I'd like to see what my bp reads 'just on tren'. It might be lower which would be nice.

I am not worried about loss of libido though I am intrigued by the effects these two compounds will have run alone. I think it is very possible to get a decent libido from tren. The reverse is also quite possible. We'll see. Performance hasn't been an issue at all so far. 10mg of cialis or viagra would fix any problem there! I haven't needed that yet at all though and I may not.

A smarter and better cycle imo would have been just to run tren by itself as a cutter. Better planning on my part would have made that a reality. It would have been safer overall. I am just making the most out of my first month on M1T. If I am going to take the risk of using it, I damn well better have some good results to show for it.

 

[Cardinal]

Tren has its negatives for sure. What I am concerned about?

Possible hairloss from it (spiro to combat it)
Possible prostate issues (bloodwork+sawpalmetto+other)
Insomnia
Mood alterations, overly emotional/aggressive tendency
High bp (toprol XL)
Libido (don't care)
Shutdown- I may run test at a super low dose after I am done to let tren clear out of my system before I start post cycle therapy
Lipids (another good reason to get bloodwork done while on it)
Joint problems

Oh and tren gives me gyno to boot! I swear I am already noticing more hardness and I only took my first shot friday night. Whatever.

Basically tren is a very risky compound to run and I do know that. I just want to see how it effects my body when run alone. I feel right now I can combat all side effects safely from tren with the exception of prostate issue, joint troubles and lipid problems. If any of those prove to be too much, likely I will choose to no longer run tren and look for other safer injectibles to run in the future once I learn to be a kitchen chemist.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I'm not going to badger or lecture you, as you seem very, very competent with your compounds and are self-aware. However, this could be one of the worst planned cycles I have ever seen. These are two distustingly strong compounds, with storied reputations for carrying a vast myriad of negative side effects and to run them together seems entirely reckless.

Quite simply there are so many better options than M1T, it boggles my mind why someone would dose it. I had this exact same conversation/post with a member named Distilled Water a little while ago, possibly a month and a half. In the same fashion he assured everyone he had already run M1T, was fully aware of its negative side effects and was fully prepared to combat them. Well, of course, about three weeks after his cycle he creates a thread named "I'm Lactating WTF! Help!"..

 

[Jayhawkk]

The biggest problem with M1T was its availability to the masses.

 

[Cardinal]

Honestly, the primary and only real problem I see with the cycle is the use of M1T. A tren only cycle would have been much more appropriate give my goals and would have put much less stress on my body overall. I don't think adding any other compound to tren is going to make it any better on my health (i.e. I don't see how test/tren would be healthier than tren alone. Better results, quite possibly. Healthier, no.).

I contemplated using a pretty wide range of injectible compounds other than test and tren. EQ is too mild. Deca isn't my bag of tea either. I am looking into masteron, injectible SD, and primobolan along with a few others. All are expensive enough for me to pretty much only make on my own. I just chose tren believe I would get a higher reward for taking the higher risk of using it. This will be my third cycle of tren.

The availability of M1T was certainly a problem. I still am not sure it is that much harsher on lipids and liver than other 'harsh' methyls, black market or otherwise. It depends on the person.

 

[pistonpump]

The availability of M1T was certainly a problem. I still am not sure it is that much harsher on lipids and liver than other 'harsh' methyls, black market or otherwise. It depends on the person.

I have to agree with this, im not sure how much harsher it is than the crazed and praised superdrol. If you can control your dosing and keep it in a normal range for what your body can handle, take support supplements, and keep cycle short i dont think its proven to be worst than superdrol or other orals. Im not doubting its harshness as that is clear but how much bloodwork have we seen with other orals, not much. After all some said phera would bloat, didnt for me, some said it would increase libido, hardly for me. People said superdrol would give me great mass gains, not really even while eating way over maintenance. So with that it does depend on the person as some of us are "freaks" so to speak, reacting to compounds in out of the norm ways. Cardinal, i suggest you get bloodwork done very often, every 3-4 weeks or so to be sure. These are two very strong substances here no doubt about it .

On another note, M1T gave me crazy libido i mean the most out of any compound i have tried steroid wise, but it did have my nuts as raisins after a few weeks. :frustrate

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I have to agree with this, im not sure how much harsher it is than the crazed and praised superdrol. If you can control your dosing and keep it in a normal range for what your body can handle, take support supplements, and keep cycle short i dont think its proven to be worst than superdrol or other orals. Im not doubting its harshness as that is clear but how much bloodwork have we seen with other orals, not much.

Actually, there is an extensive body of data on M1T's effects, both on the boards from original testers (see Supersoldier's posts) as well as original lab assays. M1T's harshness is not brotelligence, it truly is a ridiculously harsh compound.

 

[Cardinal]

'On average' I think we can agree that M1T is indeed harsher in a number of ways. But there have been some pretty bad bloodwork reports coming back from both M1t and Superdrol. I have also seen some nice bloodwork coming off M1t. I think Brian reacted pretty well to it if my memory serves from a few years back. It can vary significantly with each individual but the overall verdict is clearly "M1t = harsh for most people" and "Superdrol = harsh for a lot of people"

Injectibles are superior to both imo due to less liver toxicity.

 

[pistonpump]

oh yeah! Brian! i know that guy....:think: :blink: :icon_lol:

 

[Cardinal]

Today

I had the best lat workout I have had in a long time. After getting a new membership at 24 hour fitness, I have access to hammerstrength lat machines. They are quite tough to beat. I love the two high rows and the low row. Strength was about where I thought it might be. I am kind of on the weak side of things. No stronger on curls either still at 65'sx4.

Mood

Looking back over the last few days, I think I am already noticing signs of gyno (nipple hardness). My sleep has been a little more restless. I seem more mentally alert. Placebo or not I honestly felt like I was on tren.

I felt some very aggressive tendencies when around females today. Definitely a different sort of libido boost. Will explain more about that later. It is basically that same "I want to ****, kill and eat everything that crosses my path" sort of feeling that is common to tren. My workout rocked. I felt like I was on top of the world. I had tons of energy for cardio both the last two days. In fact I did 2-a-days. 2 hours of cardio a day for the last couple of days. Mood was great and I could have done a lot more than that. Though it has been only four days I have been told it is possible to feel effects of tren this soon.

My weight is also doing some things that are tough to explain. I am going to get off foods that bloat me and go on a consistent and steady diet for the next week. Even if it means I eat several hundred caloried more per day, I want to see if I can isolate some of the effects of Tren. I am also going to stop taking meridia and hide the nicotine gum. I only took two doses so far. Capping that nasty crap is definitely the way to choke it down if you have a bad oral mix. The only side effect I can readily identify from Meridia so far is dry mouth. I have have had no headache. Dry mouth and headaches are the two biggies to watch out for from what I have read.

I'll make an early morning run to walmart and get a cheap scale along with some food for new altered diet. Will report back accurate weight and measurements in the morning.

 

[Cardinal]

Report

I went to walmart. I stood there, opened and unwrapped about 8 scales. Every scale I stood on gave me a completely different reading. I ended up purchasing a digital sunbeam scale. It probably doesn't give accurate results, but it is consistent.

BW with new scale: 215 lbs
Waist: 37-37.5"
Arms: still 16.5" consistent

Blood pressure is reading about 137/83 in the morning at the grocery store unit (made for 9 to 13" guns). I don't know what my actual value is but both the systolic and diastolic readings are ~ 15 points higher than when I am off androgens. I'll likely use toprol if this number doesn't come down after I get off M1T.

Weird stuff for the day

I felt and feel a lot more sinus and nasal pressure. My whole head felt hot and like it was under pressure. Warmth seemed to literally course through my whole body last night. Again it feels just like tren should. My tren is strong and this time around I am about 99% sure it is dosed very close to perfectly.

I also smelled a weird smell when I breathed in at night. I have had that happen before too. It was almost metallic. Nothing new or unexpected so far...just reiterating what normally happens to me when I use these compounds.

I am definitely sleeping less. I woke up after only 6 hours rest and feel fine. Normally I need 8. Tren lowers my sleep requirement so it seems.

Hair

I have to note that I have been able to yank a few more hairs out of my head than usual. Nothing serious yet, but I am keeping an eye on it with spiro in hand if need be.

 

[Cardinal]

Until I took some pictures I had no idea how bad of shape I was/am really in. I am going to take 2-3 days off and eat at maintenance, so I thought it would be a good point to post progress so far. It will keep me accountable.

To me the gyno I have is pretty obvious especially in some of the bicep poses. You can also see what kind of condition my hair is in right now compared to whatever happens to it over the course of my cutter.

 

[Cardinal]

M1T

The M1t part of my cycle is coming to a close soon. It will be four weeks Wednesday and that is as far as I am going to take it. I haven't noticed any other effects from the tren yet. I have some sleep distruptions that I believe are from it but nothing else so far. Hair shedding is less than I usually have with my own natty test. I am really anxious to see what tren does to the hairline once it kicks in full power.

Overall the M1T effect on libido has been quite pleasing. It reduced it by about 50-60% or so (okay that and dieting reduced it). No trouble or lack of desire when I am around women. Pretty much perfect for me.

Diet Changes

I spent $60 bucks on fibrous veggies. They are a big help to me and are allowing me to keep calories a bit lower and still feel alive.

The weather is bad and I start grad school back tomorrow but it looks like classes will be cancelled. So I have a couple of more days to do some focused hardcore dieting before it all gets busy. Goal is to get the waistline down another 1/4 inch in a couple of days. Seems doable to me.

 

[Cardinal]

Did a quad inject for the first time in quite awhile. I think I found a painless spot. Time will tell if I hit nerves there in the future. It feels like the outside of my quad is the best place to hit, about half way down. I wend 2/3 the way up, dead center in the past and it got to the point where I was hitting too many nerves. That got frustrating.

Prostate Protection

I just ordered Phytosterol complex from BAC and will hopefully start it by the end of the week. This is something I should have done long ago. Quite inexpensive and I think it has a good chance of being quite effective. Never had any prostate problems or bad PSA reading and I hope not to start now.

 

[Jared]

Subscrizzled.

 

[Cardinal]

Thanks for stopping by Jared!

Today is going to be a carb load. I am getting off the M1T now though it has just been 2 weeks on Tren E. The carb load will help give the Tren more time to kick in.

I'd write more, but I think I need to go and eat.

 

[Popa Murph]

I'm not going to badger or lecture you, as you seem very, very competent with your compounds and are self-aware. However, this could be one of the worst planned cycles I have ever seen. These are two distustingly strong compounds, with storied reputations for carrying a vast myriad of negative side effects and to run them together seems entirely reckless.

Quite simply there are so many better options than M1T, it boggles my mind why someone would dose it. I had this exact same conversation/post with a member named Distilled Water a little while ago, possibly a month and a half. In the same fashion he assured everyone he had already run M1T, was fully aware of its negative side effects and was fully prepared to combat them. Well, of course, about three weeks after his cycle he creates a thread named "I'm Lactating WTF! Help!"..

This whole cycle boggles my mind.

 

[GFH]

I'm really not trying to be an ******* here, but its going to come out that way. But why are you running this very harsh cycle if you look like you currently do? You have minimal muscle built on that frame of yours. Even if you are coming off a bulk, it should still look like you workout.

Have you even been lifting for more then 2 years? whats your diet like? You said you might run test at a low level... why not avoid the overly harsh M1T and run test/tren if you are so set on running AAS.


Sorry if I sound like a prick, but I can't figure out people today. I spent 10 years in the gym and squatted over 800 in competition before I even tried a prohoromone. What happened to hard work, dedication, and time under the bar?

 

[Cardinal]

GFH,

I don't resent your comments and I do think they are appropriate. Part of the reason I posted pics this time is to serve as motivation and to force a greater focus on results this coming year. I admit to having made qutie a few training, diet and anabolic steroids use mistakes in the past. Who hasn't? Since you inquired, I'll go into a little more detail about my diet and training history. Try not to fall asleep.

I started seriously training in 7th grade. I started squatting and deadlifting in 9th grade. My first bench press and squat was 115 lbs. First deadlift was closer to 225. I trained consistently since then (I am 27 now). Throughout college, my training weight fluctuated between 185lbs and about 200lbs. You could never tell I worked out. With a reasonable strength training protocol I pushed my bench up to 235x1, easily deadlifted 355, and squatted about 225 I"d say. I was probably a little over 200 lbs at that point, pure tub of lard. That is as far as I took it naturally before using anabolic steroids.

When I transition to bulking, I'll be using the no-bull muscle building plan written by Kelly Baggett. I posted a bunch of stuff at ironmagazineforums.com under the journal section that describes it in more detail. Will be glad to copy it here if there is interest.

That you squatted 800 as a natty trainer is a very excellent accomplishment and deserves respect. I notice you used it as an example of hard work, dedication and time under the bar. Fair enough. There are many people in life who hold to the belief that those who work the hardest and stay dedicated to a goal will be the ones who are successful. It is almost laughable how many times that turns out not to be the case. I have nothing against hard work. I'd say I spent as much time in the gym under the bar as most any trainer over the last 12 years despite a lack of results much of the time. Weightlifting and bodybuilding are things I love and I'd do it all over again if I had the chance.

The problem when it comes to using anabolic steroids is that they entail risk. Try justifying the use of Testosterone for anything beyond TRT/HRT or some other valid medicinal use. Using it for any other purpose entail significantly greater risk (and greater reward for many).

Even you with an 800 lb natural squat and probably quite laudable athletic/powerlifting goals, would find it quite difficult to justify why it is more appropriate for you to use steroids than it would be for me (assuming we both do the exact same cycles as an example). From a pure standpoint of results achieve vs. genetic potential, sure you could justify it. But you also have to consider everything else. There are plenty of valid reasons why a man would choose to use anabolic steroids prior to reaching his genetic potential. I personally wouldn't choose to use prior to knowing how to eat and train however. Whether you believe it or not, you cannot look at a person's pictures and draw conclusions about their diet and training knowledge, dedication etc. etc.

I have no way of knowing what you meant when you asked how long I had been training or what my diet is like. It is nearly impossible to tell intonation from a message board.

I have already acknowledged that including M1T in this cycle was a bad idea. A much better idea imo would have just been to use Tren at 400mg EW. I still don't see how running test/tren is less harsh than running tren by itself. Inject tren and you are injecting a harsh compound. Stacking said harsh copound with other steroids concomittantly is quite likely to produce additional negative side effects. I have done test/tren before and can affirm this. I am obviously hoping that running tren by itself will give better partitioning than test and tren together. I am also hoping to reduce the normal side effects I get from testosterone. The latter I can be sure will happen. The only way I can tell about the former is to try it and see.

 

[Cardinal]

Quick Update

I am feeling more effects of Tren. I got night sweats the last two nights after carb loading. I also managed to pour sweat uncontrollably at a mexican restaurant the other day. Nothing like Tren, a bunch of hot sauce and a hot date to boot. I was glad to get back outside into the cold weather.

I am definitely noticing more vascularity. My sleep has been quite consistent. I have been waking up before 9 each morning. My normal sleep patterns would have me wake up around noon or so. Seems like 7 hours is plenty of rest for me on Tren. I seem to be getting a bit more annoyed the last few days but nothing major.

I still seem to be shedding less hair than I normally do on my own natty test. That isn't to say I am not losing it though. Time (and pictures) will tell that. So far things look promising in that department though.

Blood pressure is high and I am probably going to need to take my Toprol starting in the next week or so.

Prostate Supplement Note

Adding Phytosterol Complex to supplement list.

I am shooting for 300-350mg Beta Sitosterol ED.

First observations:

1) The powder is light weight
2) It doesn't seem to mix with water much at all
3) It is white
4) It doesn't taste too bad plain
5) Looks like I managed to get about 450 days worth at the current dosing. I am still researching to see exactly how much I should take. For once I am following package directions.

 

[Cardinal]

Update

Bodyweight: 210
Arms: 16.5"
Waist: 35.75"

Notes

Results were a little slower this week than expected given a rather large calculated deficit. To me, the progress pics I just took don't show a huge improvement. I know I would need to knock off a couple of more inches before really getting noticable results. In comparison, the first pics were with a 39+" waist. Then 37", then 35.75". I am going to do a cycle or two of Kelly Baggett's no bull muscle building plan. I want to see just how well Tren can partition calories given an awesome diet and well integrated training protocol. The plan will be logged at ironmagazineforums. I'll talk about AAS results/side effects more here.

Attached are a few current pics. That way you can see the results of the plan later on. I am very strongly depleted in these most recent pics. I may post one or two more after todays carb load.

 

[Stupes]

This whole cycle boggles my mind.

I'm with this guy......wow.

 

[T-Bone]

....Dang!

 

[Cardinal]

Update

I feel like I have been on Tren by itself now long enough to give a more definite summary of its side effects. If anything right now I am using as more of a recomp drug with a fairly good diet plan (Kelly's no-bull muscle building plan) designed more toward muscle gain than fat loss.

Side effects of tren for me

1) Nightly sleep ~ 7 hours instead of my usual 8 hours +. This leads to short naps during the day and earlier sleeping hours. Funny it actually makes an 8-5 type schedule much easier to keep for a night person like myself. No issues falling asleep. I just wake up earlier.

2) Mood shifts. Minor at this point. Maybe a slight feeling of apathy from time to time but nothing to write home about. Aggression is not a problem.

3) Libido. I'd say mental drive is reduced about 50%. Same as M1T as far as I can tell. I am however having more problems with random boners than I had on 4AD or test. At night, at the gym, in class, anytime I take a nap....you get the idea. Like others have reported, it appears to be an effect of the strong androgenic type. "DHT" boners may be a misnomer but it pretty much describes what is happening. It is darn near embarrassing sometimes. Functional ability is very satisfactory. The libido I do have a is a nice aggressive libido. 50% power + aggression is a nice combination for me.

4) Blood pressure. At the little crappy grocery store/sam's club machines I am getting reading of 135-142 over maybe 80-85. I suspect my real BP may be a little higher, but this reading is in line with all the other strong AAS I have used like testosterone. I suspect blood pressure will have to be controlled with Rx meds. I will likely start toprol XL soon (I have a legit script and dr. approval for using it).

5) Fluid levels. Dehydration appears to be an issue for me. I have found doing whatever I can to drink more has helped. Adding milk to my diet in large amounts helps as does diet soda

6) Muscle pumps. 400mg EW of tren produces more than enough pump given a hypercaloric diet of any type plus some higher rep/volume work in the gym. Vascularity is improved somewhat.

7) Bloat. With a cyclical diet and too many calories I can still bloat up incredibly. 20 lbs in 5 days was easy for me. I had to adjust/moderate my diet to take into account the excessive fluid retention.

8) Partitioning. I need a lot more time to give feedback on this. What I will say is that I will be hitting 1.5-2 g/lb in whole food protein everyday and alternating periods of high calories and low calories. I overshoot on the high calorie periods easily. Time will tell how well the weight is partitioned.

9) Joints have felt fine so far. Strength is improving. Nothing much to report here. I still find picking the right exercises and allowing plenty of recovery time to be the most important factor in how the old joints feel. Endurance has been fine on the cardio equipment so far.

10) Hairloss is not apparent yet. I am shedding, but less than I normally do on my natty test. I'd say I get maybe 10 hairs when I comb through it after taking a shower. It isn't falling out anything like it did with M5, 1-T or testosterone itself. I am using no hairloss supplements at all.

Overall, so far so good. But what I am worried about is what bloodwork will show. I want to give at least a month off M1T before I get bloodwork done now. I don't plan on using M1T in the future, but am very interested/concerned what tren will show in that regard. Particularly PSA values, liver/lipids are what I am most concerned with.

That is best I can do to describe the side effects of running tren alone for me. Will update again when I have more definitive info.

-C

 

[TiTanUp]

good log

 

[motive]

had to subscribe... great write ups

 

[Cardinal]

Titan, motive...thanks for checking in guys! Glad you have found the information useful.

Update

I am now the proud holder of 8000 IU of HCG and am taking votes on how best to use it.

I started this somewhat ill-planned cycle December 21 or thereabouts. So I have been on about 7 weeks and it is safe to assume I am fully shut down. I have certainly heard of people starting later in their cycle, maybe 5-6 weeks in.

One plan is to just shoot a sub-c injection twice a week at 250 IU per shot. With this option I would be able to report pretty clearly whether or not there is any size increase or other side effects and what if any effect it has on my libido. As a reference I will likely end my tren cycle after 10 weeks, run test at a low dose for awhile to let the tren get out of my system (just a personal preference on how to end a cycle).

Alternatively, I could wait until whenever I decide to come off and use it just prior to pct under a larger but shorter duration protocol.

Just curious what you guys think? I don't see any harm that could come from starting something akin to swale's protocol now...except that it might largely ineffective given that I am already strongly shut down by two rather powerful compounds.

Logic tells me to wait until I am about to go off since I have missed the boat on obtaining hcg prior to the inception of this cycle.

 

[riskarb]

I'll endorse this cycle provided I am in your will. This is on par with T-Bone's Drano liver cleanse. M1T and tren-e.

Milk thistle is worthless for this cycle.

 

[Cardinal]

Toprol XL

It is also high time I took the blood pressure down a notch or two. The main reason I held off a week or two was to make sure I could provide feedback on tren alone (especially wrt to libido as I know toprol can make for erectile difficulty in some guys).

Dosing

I took my first dose today.

Toprol is one of those drugs you taper up and back down. It tends to lower heart rate and lower blood pressure. I have used it briefly in the past (it is prescribed by my cardiologist).

So I will do something like

Days 1-7: 50mg ED
Day 7-14: 75 mg

I will let you know what it does to my bp.

Right now I tend to get grocery store reading of maybe 135-148/77-85 (systolic/diastolic).

Another side effect that it has is that it may slightly slow metabolism. My prediction is that I won't notice any metabolic effects. I think tren will over power the drug. The other possiblity is that it may make it easier to gain weight on tren...i.e. it could have a synergistic effect. Some people also get a bit of brain fog on toprol. The new extended release lopressor that I have tend to make that problem less of a big deal so I hear.

 

[Cardinal]

I'll endorse this cycle provided I am in your will. This is on par with T-Bone's Drano liver cleanse. M1T and tren-e.

Milk thistle is worthless for this cycle.

Got a link to the drano liver cleanse...that sounds like a winner! Thanks for the suggestion.

You don't really have to worry about me running M1T in the future. If I am going to turn yellow it is going to have to do it within the next few weeks. I expect some pretty ugly liver values when I get blood work done in a month or so that is for sure. It is not clear however that tren puts an incredible stress on the liver. I'll know soon enough. I am more concerned about potential prostate and lipid concerns with stacking these two drugs.

On the upside, I pretty much don't drink and haven't touched a drop of alcohol on this cycle or one tab of tylenol.

I have noted several times before, adding M1T was a bad idea from the get go. However I'd still contend that substituting 'most' other reasonably strong orals for M1T and adding test would not make the cycle any less harsh. It would just look prettier on paper.

 

[Cardinal]

Update

Today's Blood Pressure Reading and Toprol XL

BP: 148/88 I hour after big meal
BP: 133/72 I hour after Leg Day + Cardio

Toprol XL Dose: 50mg (fourth day on it)

Toprols effects are more or less immediate. My heart and body tends to feel calmer on it. Heart rate seems to be a little lower but I need more time to confirm this. So far 50mg doesn't seem to limit the big pressure spikes after meals and hasn't changed my typical readings. I'll get more data over the next few days.

Squatting endurance is definitely lower on Toprol. You just don't have as much breath and it is tougher to complete higher rep sets (8-15 rep sets). Strength is there and then some. I seriously doubt toprol can even remotely hurt strength gains on tren. It just doesn't have a cns effect to counter tren at all.

Tren

I am getting close to PR territory on my major lifts. Strength gains from Tren this time around are getting impressive (for me).

I ran what I thought was Tren E earlier this year (summer). The seller admitted it to being minorly underdosed. I think it was majorly underdosed. I kept wondering why my strength gains leveled off so quick and why I thought I was only on test....b/c I probably was hehe. My current batch is homebrewed with very pure powder. That is the way to go for expensive gear.

Not to go into too much detail, but I keep waking up with boners at all hours of the night on Tren. It almost worries me that there is so much blood flow for most of the night.

I am clearly shut down and there has been noticably shrinkage since the first few weeks of my cycle.

HCG

The plan will be to run my 8000 IU hcg for a month just prior to pct along with test prop and Arimidex. Dosing will be something like 250-500 IU EOD according to some advice I got off another thread here. That may not be enough for major shutdown, but I'd rather use as little as possible and feel the smartest thing to do at this point is use it right before I come off.

Tren as a Bulker

I am loving it. I keep eating 5000+ kcals a day and 1.5-2g/lb wholefood protein. Every morning I get out the tape measure thinking the waist line will probably edge up some. So far it really hasn't. I had a 35.75" waist at 210 lbs. Now the scale shows 221 (actual weight is probably a few lbs heavier) and 36.5".

My concern is the following. Tren's gains as a bulker will be super lean. I am a little concerned about the reward to risk payoff though. I have no problem eating enough to gain on it but I know eating massive amounts of food also puts a lot of stress on the body combined with gear. The key I think to making this work over a reasonably long cycle (10-12 weeks) will be to keep well hydrated and keep blood pressure in check. Patience is also a big key. I am going to have to wait another week or two to give more definite feedback on muscle gains. Strength gains are outmatching muscle gains by a long shot. I can feel a huge increase in strength in every movement I make throughout the day. The feeling of physical cns stimulation you get from tren is just amazing.

 

[Cardinal]

Just a quick update. Strength gains are progressing quite nicely. I am indeed impressed with the Tren in that regard this time around.

I have been doing my injects in my quads for the last 5 weeks or so. The side of the leg in the meat of the muscle is definitley the place for me. Been awhile since I hit a nerve.

Give me ~3 weeks more off M1T and I'll get some BW done. I have already paid for it using directlabs. Liver, lipids, kidneys and PSA, no red blood cell count though. Should get the paperwork soon.

 

[Cardinal]

Hairloss

Over the last 7-10 days it looks as though I am noticing a significant increase in hair shedding. I have been on tren now ~6+ weeks. I am not sure why it took much longer to start showing its effects. It could be due to the nature of hair growth (1-3 month cycle). Further, I suspect the absense of testosterone reduced shedding as much as anything.

Spiro

Starting 2 days ago, I am using spiro topical cream from wholesale hair products. The stuff is thick as always and I really need to find a viable way to thin it.

I am also testing out some new homebrewed tren with different powder. So naturally, i'll be looking out for any changes that might indicate dosing anomalies.

Nootropic Stack

For the record and for anyone that happens to be interested I am starting a nootropic stack today.

3 g Piracetam ED
2 grams ALCAR ED
.5 grams Choline Citrate ED

And the rest of what I am currently on:

Centrum Silver
Fish Oil 6g ED
Milk Thistle 1g ED
Beta Sisterol 300-600 mg ED

Toprol XL (Tapering this down to a very low low dose)

The nootropic stack is definitely for mental focus and clarity primarily. I'll let you know if I notice any differences on top of what I am already taking. I love things like caffeine and ephedrine for mental focus but I don' t like the side effects and the fact that they are strong cardiac stimulants. I took about 5 mg ephedrine the other day and was able to study for hours. However, I still got the ups and downs, anxiety, some sleep issues and 'risked' potential cardiac/bp/prostate issues. So that is a no go for me.

I also need to note that I have been experiencing a little minor esophageal reflux the last week or two. I tend to think it may be diet related as I have been changing some of the foods I eat. But it could also be due to tren partly as many people have complained about that using it.

 

[CryingEmo]

I have the same digestive problems, more with stomach bloat though. Beano seemed to work well so far.


Hey, send me some of that toprol xl lol.

 

[Cardinal]

CE,

I think the digestive issue was largely due to my consumption of approximately 1/2 a bottle of hot sauce. A few gulps of mylanta did the trick for me.

Nootropics

As a note, I have only taken one dose of nootropics so far. I experienced some pretty serious anxiety from it that I believe may be due to the ALCAR. I have been advised to try piracetam by itself at a lower dose of maybe 1.5-2 grams.

I am over the anxiety so I will give this another shot.

I am looking quite closely to see what effects spiro is having. It may be reducing libido just a tad bit, but that is tough to conclude yet. I am not even sure yet if it has systemic effects. Give me a week more on it and it should be more clear. Hair is still coming out in large amounts.

I got a PR on squats today. 275x5. So I have added about 50lbs to the bar since the tren kicked in. Not bad for me. 385 went up easily deadlifting today. I am contemplating going for a bit more next week. I have done ~415 last semester. Felt like my head was going to explode so I am reluctant to do so again until I learn to breathe.

 

[Cardinal]

Update

Glad I was able to keep this thing updated every week, eh? Don't know what happened to the time.

Tren

*Still running it at 400mg/EW
*Still having insomnia
*Still losing a lot of hair. Current strategy is to cut it short and not bother with drenching my head in anti-androgens every night.

Supplements

Beta sisterol
Milk thistle
MV/MM
Melatonin once or twice a week
1 green tea pill a day for energy

Strength

I am stronger than I have ever been.

Squat from 225x5 to 320x4, closing in on 100 lbs.
Deadlift, something over 400x1
CGBP 235x5, regular bench 245x5

As far as I can tell the strength gains are still coming in steadily.

Muscle

Gained at least 9/16" on the arms. Bodyweight is probably 225 now. Most improvement seems to be in quads.

Bloodwork

Planning on doing this next week then coming off tren. The bloodwork should show the price I have paid for these gains.

 

[Cardinal]

Bloodwork

Lipids are a bit on the ugly side of things. I clearly should have taken some precautions there. If anything, those results are expected. Compared to my bloodwork after superdrol, those lipids are fairly atrocious. I am pretty happy with the liver values. ALT, AST are a bit high compared to my last readings, but not terrible imo. Very happy with the PSA of 1.3!

In comparison, I had HDL of 53 and LDL of 100 last time. Big change eh?

Chemistries

Uric Acid Serum 1.5 (2.4-8.2) LOW
BUN 18 (5-26)
Creatinine Serum 1.3 (.5-1.5)
Phosphorus 5.1 (2.5-4.5) HIGH

Liver

LDH 200 (100-250)
AST 42 (0-40) HIGH
ALT 34 (0-55)
GGT 10 (0-65)

Lipids

Cholesterol, Total 229 (100-199) HIGH
Triglycerides 98 (0-149)
HDL 15 (40-59) LOW
LDL Calc 194 (0-99) HIGH

Prostate Specific Ag - Serum 1.3 (0-4)