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M1T lethargy - any second gen ph's would help it?

bullet

New member
alright so i've decided to get back on some M1T. It's the one ph that did the most for me. I know that a lot of people hate it, and i can't say that i love it either, but it sure as heck works. So third day on it at 10mg and i already feel like ****. Anything still on the market that i could stack it with to get rid of some of that lethargy? There's no way i can still get the good old 4AD, so anything else?
 
bullet said:
alright so i've decided to get back on some M1T. It's the one ph that did the most for me. I know that a lot of people hate it, and i can't say that i love it either, but it sure as heck works. So third day on it at 10mg and i already feel like ****. Anything still on the market that i could stack it with to get rid of some of that lethargy? There's no way i can still get the good old 4AD, so anything else?
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I found that Albuterol did a good job of compbating the lethargy.
 
I agree. Albuterol could help. So could one of the preworkout energy products such as Amp. Trouble is these can raise blood pressure. So does M1T. Have some extra celery seed extract along with Cycle Support which has celery seed in it. I've gotten decent gains from M1T using 5mg's for 2 on and 2 off. Strong stuff. Good luck.
 
bullet said:
alright so i've decided to get back on some M1T. It's the one ph that did the most for me. I know that a lot of people hate it, and i can't say that i love it either, but it sure as heck works. So third day on it at 10mg and i already feel like ****. Anything still on the market that i could stack it with to get rid of some of that lethargy? There's no way i can still get the good old 4AD, so anything else?
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High doses of DHEA will help, but beware DHEA generates a lot of estrogen so watch for Gyno. I think you will need to get to 500 mg range and it will never be as good as 4-AD or testosterone. By the third day on M1T (even at 10mgs) your testosterone and estrogen levels are already close to 0. This bad for your health. Your white cell count is dropping like a rock. Your HDL levels are doing the same thing. M1T is almost totally testosterone and estrogen suppressive for up to 12 days after you stop taking it.

This was a very bad idea without testosterone support. I sure hope you plan on SERM to get some estrogen support during post cycle therapy. I don't even think Toremifene can do anything about the 12 days of after stopping suppression of M1T. You really need to take something for those 12 days after like testosterone, 4-AD, or HCG. M-TST will help, but adds more load on your liver.

Taking M1T without Testosterone/estrogen support is extremely foolish and will most likely will end up with you getting sick. It is not lethargy, but health issues. Sorry.
 
you might just be right cause at this point I already feel horible, so much so that i'm going to come off. I'm actually going to switch to SD. Not the best way to start an SD cycle but i can no longer run this damn M1T. Now i remmember why i stopped my cycle 2 years ago. The results on it are amazing, but all these damn sides are not worth it. So since i'm already f*kd up, SD here I come!!

As far as PCT i plan on runing 6-oxo, is that enough?? Just playin y'all, i'm going to run Dr.D's PCT except that i'll run toremifene instead of tomoxifen.
 
bullet said:
you might just be right cause at this point I already feel horible, so much so that i'm going to come off. I'm actually going to switch to superdrol. Not the best way to start an SD cycle but i can no longer run this damn M1T. Now i remmember why i stopped my cycle 2 years ago. The results on it are amazing, but all these damn sides are not worth it. So since i'm already f*kd up, SD here I come!!

As far as post cycle therapy i plan on runing 6-oxo, is that enough?? Just playin y'all, i'm going to run Dr.D's PCT except that i'll run toremifene instead of tomoxifen.
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Going from feeling like crap on M1T to a superdrol cycle, is just plain reckless...Not a good idea. Superdrol is as bad for you as M1T, maybe even worse. So now that M1T has you shut down and your liver values and lipids shot, you are going to switch to Superdrol?. :think:
 
T-Bone said:
Going from feeling like crap on M1T to a superdrol cycle, is just plain reckless...Not a good idea. Superdrol is as bad for you as M1T, maybe even worse. So now that M1T has you shut down and your liver values and lipids shot, you are going to switch to Superdrol?. :think:
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eh, i can think of worse things....at least he isnt stopping and restarting...

for most of us, M1T has more immediate, awful sides than superdrol. i found the latter far more tolerable, as did most of the users (T-bone you are of course excluded!)
 
T-Bone said:
Going from feeling like crap on M1T to a superdrol cycle, is just plain reckless...Not a good idea. Superdrol is as bad for you as M1T, maybe even worse. So now that M1T has you shut down and your liver values and lipids shot, you are going to switch to Superdrol?. :think:
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Sorry after only 3 days, the liver on only 10mgs per day isn't hurting that much yet. HDL is just starting to drop, but will drop quickly without estrogen support. Estrogen is what is needed for health. Testosterone is needed for libido and energy. Estrogen can be supported with DHEA. You will get a little testosterone also from DHEA too.

Switching to Superdrol will not bring any testosterone or estrogen support. Would need the DHEA too. May still have no libido for 12 days.

Stopping right now leaves you with no testosterone support for 12 days, though toremifene will provide some estrogen support. Probably want have some DHEA for at least 12 (15+)days.

Halodrol-50 is possibility if you can get it. Maybe Epistane, but not sure how it will work when you are already fully suppressed. M-TST? Promagnon-25 will get the libido back, but probably not much gains. M-ohn?

What you really need is some form of testosterone.

Need to add up to 12 days onto post cycle therapy for M1T because of the after suppression effect of M1T.

Sorry
 
Well... the hell with this cycle. I just got on toremifene and DHEA. I'm going to run PCT for about 14 days, then take some time off and then get on some enanthate. The hell with all this oral sh*t. Today i actually felt like i'm dyin.
 
toremifene - does 120mg/first 3 days, 90mg/next 3 days and then 60mg for the rest of the 14 days sound ok?
 
dam m1t never made me feel that bad....day 3...wow! I was a big ephedra user tho,so maybee that had something to do with it...but i did do it with massive doses of 4-ad too...whatever plain and simple stay away from m1t without some kind of test........cheers:cheers:
 
bullet said:
toremifene - does 120mg/first 3 days, 90mg/next 3 days and then 60mg for the rest of the 14 days sound ok?
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I'm sorry, but you are not listening. M1T has some kind of weird suppression that doesn't even let testosterone even start to recover with Nolva for 12 days. I mean even go above 1% of normal!

Normally recovery from oral starts within a day or 2. Supersoldier did a bunch of tests when M1T first came out that showed this.

14 days PCT for M1T is BS. That is really only 2 days of post cycle therapy!

M1T must break down to some other suppressive substance to have that kind of long lasting suppressive action after stopping. We don't know why it happens, we just know it happens.

I don't know what Toremifene will do, but Nolva didn't have any effect at all for 12 days. Toremifene probably will not either. This is the main reason that a lot of people lost their gains.

I recommend that you get on something else for 12 days and then go into post cycle therapy.

The only way it makes any sense to run M1T is as booster in in long testosterone cycle. Since at even 5 mgs it causes 99% suppression in 3 days, it shouldn't be use for the first few weeks of a testosterone cycle until suppression has set in from the testosterone and it shouldn't be used for the last two weeks either so it clears out before PCT. Sorry, I venting.
 
Chippewa said:
Mind if I ask what dose of DHEA you'd suggest to him?
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300 mg for first two weeks of post cycle therapy and probably around 500 mg on cycle. 500 mg could possibly create Gyno problems. This is only because estrogen is less than 1% of normal from the M1T.

For days 15 through 17 of PCT, 200 mgs. Then drop to 100 mgs for days 18 through 20.

Remember this only applies to M1T and would be totally different for anything other than M1T!
 
Well on Saturday after my last post I took 120mg toremifene . About 4 hrs later i starting feeling better, and not only me but even my little guy. By the second day on M1T i couldn't care less about my girl, however since Saturday i've been almost back to normal. So if my test and estrogen levels are so low, how is it that i wake up with morning wood and that i'm able to put it to good use too? i think this toremifene it's some good sh*t.
 
bullet said:
Well on Saturday after my last post I took 120mg toremifene . About 4 hrs later i starting feeling better, and not only me but even my little guy. By the second day on M1T i couldn't care less about my girl, however since Saturday i've been almost back to normal. So if my test and estrogen levels are so low, how is it that i wake up with morning wood and that i'm able to put it to good use too? i think this toremifene it's some good sh*t.
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The fact that you even referred to your penis as "my little guy"...*shudder*
 
Werewolf, what would be your ideal PCT for M1T. I've taken 20mg/day M1T w/600mg 4-AD (oral) on cycle(s) and continued the 4-AD (same dose) through PCT with of course a SERM. I've always had great luck and never had a problem with M1T. It is my absolute favorite, and I've always kept my gains. Let me know what you think might be a better PCT, if you can think of one.
Thx.
SL
 
Chippewa said:
The fact that you even referred to your penis as "my little guy"...*shudder*
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2 days on M1T he got from a great 3 inch to just about 1.5in. i wanted to take 1/2 of Viagra just so it gives me enough wood so i don't pee my shoes anymore. :icon_lol:
 
SupraLover said:
Werewolf, what would be your ideal post cycle therapy for M1T. I've taken 20mg/day M1T w/600mg 4-AD (oral) on cycle(s) and continued the 4-AD (same dose) through PCT with of course a SERM. I've always had great luck and never had a problem with M1T. It is my absolute favorite, and I've always kept my gains. Let me know what you think might be a better PCT, if you can think of one.
Thx.
SL
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Sounds like you were already doing what I was recommending by continueing the 4-AD in PCT. How long did you continue the 4-AD into PCT? I have done two weeks into PCT with 4-AD transdermal and M-ohn with very good success.

I real curious to see how toremifene works. Nolva didn't do anything for about 12 days against M1T. To me it seems like Toremifene has an HCG effect the way it works so fast. It wasn't around when I was doing M1T.
 
well i've got a confession to make.. what i did was run 4 weeks of superdrol/PP prior to M1T.. I went up 8lbs but my weight wasn't really going up anymore. Anyways i don't know, i knew better, but i said f it i'll run the last 2 weeks M1T. And when i switched to M1T, wel you all saw what happened. I was really frustrated and i figured i'll go back to SD. But you guys kinda got me back on the right track. I know these are hard on your body, but i don't know, i really ignored it at that time. I've lost weight due to flu and food poisoning and i was really looking forward on puting back as much weight as i could with this cycle. And for a little while i actually chose to ignore everything i know about steroids.
anywys my post cycle therapy . I ran toremifene 2 days at 120mg DHEA 200mg... then 2 more days at 90mg Toremifene DHEA 150mg..then 2 days more at 60mg Toremifene DHEA 100mg... 2days at 30mg DHEA 50mg and that's the end of the story. I'm fully back... i haven't lost 1 lb..., never had anymore problems with my di*k... i don't know i usually bounce back really fast from PH's. I've never experienced my nuts shrinking to the size of peas. I'm sure it's better to run a longer PCT, but i hate running PCT so i do it just as much as i really have to. Just enough to keep me horny and up and running and enough to allow me to keep my weight.
 
bullet said:
well i've got a confession to make.. what i did was run 4 weeks of superdrol/PP prior to M1T.. I went up 8lbs but my weight wasn't really going up anymore. Anyways i don't know, i knew better, but i said f it i'll run the last 2 weeks M1T. And when i switched to M1T, wel you all saw what happened. I was really frustrated and i figured i'll go back to superdrol. But you guys kinda got me back on the right track. I know these are hard on your body, but i don't know, i really ignored it at that time. I've lost weight due to flu and food poisoning and i was really looking forward on puting back as much weight as i could with this cycle. And for a little while i actually chose to ignore everything i know about steroids.
anywys my post cycle therapy . I ran toremifene 2 days at 120mg DHEA 200mg... then 2 more days at 90mg Toremifene DHEA 150mg..then 2 days more at 60mg Toremifene DHEA 100mg... 2days at 30mg DHEA 50mg and that's the end of the story. I'm fully back... i haven't lost 1 lb..., never had anymore problems with my di*k... i don't know i usually bounce back really fast from PH's. I've never experienced my nuts shrinking to the size of peas. I'm sure it's better to run a longer post cycle therapy, but i hate running post cycle therapy so i do it just as much as i really have to. Just enough to keep me horny and up and running and enough to allow me to keep my weight.
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I know should just give up on you, but you only need your testosterone levels at about 30% of normal to get your libido to work. or at 200 when it should be above 650. Toremifene is very close to magic, but 6 days isn't enough. It is much better than no post cycle therapy. My testosterone levels and my balls are more important to me to take short cuts. I usually run my balls to double output in a NHA cycle as part of my post cycle therapy and let them settle back to normal from that side. My girlfriend is only a couple years older than you and she expects a 19 year old's libido out of me. I aim to please.
 
damn. i didn't think it was that bad i mean i'm horny as hell and performing 4-5 times a day. well since i didn't put on the size that i expected with the cycle i actually did just start a few days ago a bottle of BAM. That should help me out some right? do you think i should get back on toremifene?
 
Werewolf said:
I'm sorry, but you are not listening. M1T has some kind of weird suppression that doesn't even let testosterone even start to recover with Nolva for 12 days. I mean even go above 1% of normal!

Normally recovery from oral starts within a day or 2. Supersoldier did a bunch of tests when M1T first came out that showed this.

14 days post cycle therapy for M1T is BS. That is really only 2 days of post cycle therapy!

M1T must break down to some other suppressive substance to have that kind of long lasting suppressive action after stopping. We don't know why it happens, we just know it happens.

I don't know what Toremifene will do, but Nolva didn't have any effect at all for 12 days. Toremifene probably will not either. This is the main reason that a lot of people lost their gains.

I recommend that you get on something else for 12 days and then go into post cycle therapy.

The only way it makes any sense to run M1T is as booster in in long testosterone cycle. Since at even 5 mgs it causes 99% suppression in 3 days, it shouldn't be use for the first few weeks of a testosterone cycle until suppression has set in from the testosterone and it shouldn't be used for the last two weeks either so it clears out before PCT. Sorry, I venting.
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How do we know the time frame is 12 days? Id like to see a little backing if possible.

Werewolf?
Anyone?
 
pistonpump said:
How do we know the time frame is 12 days? Id like to see a little backing if possible.

Werewolf?
Anyone?
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Sorry the Blood tests that Supersoldier ran for us years ago are no longer available on the board. You can try to PM him and see if he still has them.
 
Werewolf said:
Sorry the Blood tests that Supersoldier ran for us years ago are no longer available on the board. You can try to PM him and see if he still has them.
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what did it indicate as far as the m1t being in your system after cessation? Im not arguing the point as i feel i saw the same thing when using it. I would just like to know was it still very high test levels or something?

Ive been thinking of running it again here to finish up what i have and i was thinking 2 weeks m1t then 2 weeks of ZOL. This info will just help me confirm that. Do you think ZOL would be enough to keep test up for those two weeks of clearing for the m1t?
 
Invalid Link Removed this was ss's m1t post cycle blood work........i'm thinking of somehow incorperating it into my next test cycle...not sure how yet tho
 
pistonpump said:
have you ever used it?
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a few times yea....i have a 120 count bottle left and trying to put my next cycle together....i have Ax superdrol too...so im not sure what i will do?It will be a 12 week sustanon cycle tho @500mg
 
with a long test based cycle id do 2 or 3 weeks m1t chill for 2-3 weeks and if first run was good then run another 2-3 weeks.
 
pistonpump said:
with a long test based cycle id do 2 or 3 weeks m1t chill for 2-3 weeks and if first run was good then run another 2-3 weeks.
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i just dont wana fukc my lipids to death....im thinking of some sort of pulse between the two.......something like
mon-m1t 10mg
tues-(a non methyl) methoxy tst prolly at 12mg
wed-superdrol 20mg
thurs methoxy tst 12mg
fri-m1t 10mg
sat methoxy tst,or megazol
sun methoxy tst,or trn

something like that...i have to use up a lot of sh*t,so i can get somewhat creative...i have 2 boxes of the first run halodrol too(the one with dmt).....some methyl-d too....so im still workin on this one...prolly gonna run it near christmas time....
 
damn i think that would be too crazy to pulse that much sh1t, asswipe. Too many variables.

start a new thread fo sho......nakka
 
pistonpump said:
damn i think that would be too crazy to pulse that much sh1t, asswipe. Too many variables.

start a new thread fo sho......nakka
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thats with 12 weeks of test.....
 
pistonpump said:
yeah i know but orals dont play. you could get gyno from many angles, you wouldnt know how to combat it.
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i have a bottle and a half of Cabergoline,butloads of tamox,letro.....im gonna run armidex/finasteride/caber throughout
 
TripDog said:
Invalid Link Removed this was ss's m1t post cycle blood work........i'm thinking of somehow incorperating it into my next test cycle...not sure how yet tho
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Thanks, My old link didn't work for some reason. This is what I was refering to. There was another thread he did when he first started taking M1T. I don't think you can pulse M1T successfully because of its long term supressiveness. i stated already in this thread how I think M1T should be done in Test cycle. Basically wait until the test suppresses you and then throw it in. Starting with M1T means you will be suppressed immediately.
 
Werewolf said:
Thanks, My old link didn't work for some reason. This is what I was refering to. There was another thread he did when he first started taking M1T. I don't think you can pulse M1T successfully because of its long term supressiveness. i stated already in this thread how I think M1T should be done in Test cycle. Basically wait until the test suppresses you and then throw it in. Starting with M1T means you will be suppressed immediately.
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yea thanks thats a great point about the m1t shutdown...i am going to run it with sustanon tho wich has propinate in it,so test will be there....
 
TripDog said:
yea thanks thats a great point about the m1t shutdown...i am going to run it with sustanon tho wich has propinate in it,so test will be there....
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The estrogen will help keep the HDL up and white blood cell count up too. You could probably pulse it in a test cycle to keep sides down by spreading your dose over time.
 
Werewolf said:
The estrogen will help keep the HDL up and white blood cell count up too. You could probably pulse it in a test cycle to keep sides down by spreading your dose over time.
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Invalid Link Removed thats the link to my thread i started about it...check it out wolf and tell me your opinion............
 
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