m14add/pmag and dhea?? is this advisable?

[schwellington]

I was browsing using the search option and I was reading some people advising to use dhea on cycle of pmag/m14add since dhea is a few steps from conversion into testosterone......I was curious because I might just throw this in if it is reccomended.....personally I think it would be epic.

 

[ZamaMan]

Im not someone with an awnser but I don't think dhea really converts enough to make a differance for gains. But I believe I read thy it's great to have on cycle because it does something to your adrenaline and helps battle lathargy and other related sides. But no it won't be like taking a test based prohormone

 

[schwellington]

no it wont...ur right but in high enough doses it does convert to test- do I expect it to be like a test hormone- naw but it might do somethin for me! Probably dont need it with this stack tho unless using it to combat sides

 

[jbryand101b]

you are forgetting dhea converts into multiple other hormones. not just testosterone.

I look at dhea as more of a hormonal stablizer, and I feel it's best used on cycles of non aromatizable steroids, not steroids that aromatize like m14add.

pmag is 4chloro methyl androstenediol

what little converts (like hd) will become it's bigger brother 4chloro methyl testosterone aka methyl clostebol.

I'd be curious as to how a stack of m14add/pmag would go. I def like the idea better than stacking hd, being that m14add and hd are so close.

 

[schwellington]

I see your information clarifies that dhea is not needed and would probly be no good- well sir I am going to log it come november- so if ur still on the boards you will see it

m14-90/90/120/120
pmag-75/75/100/100/100/100

 

[cowboy007]

I start my m1,4add/Pmag run on Sat. Ive got some DHEA on hand to help battle lethargy. I PM'd a few guys on here and other boards who ran the cycle, and a few said they thought it helped when they took it after feeling run down. Dont know if I'll need it, but it costs less than 6 McChickens so I figure its no big deal if I don't

 

[schwellington]

Lol less than six mcchickens...how many mgs will u dose at?

 

[cowboy007]

90/120/120/120/90/0/0/0 for the m1,4add
0/0/0/50/75/75/100/100 for the P-mag. May do one more week at 100
0/0/0/0/0/0/75/75 Formex (IBE) continued into PCT

 

[deadaim]

90/120/120/120/90/0/0/0 for the m1,4add
0/0/0/50/75/75/100/100 for the P-mag. May do one more week at 100
0/0/0/0/0/0/75/75 Formex (IBE) continued into PCT

Cowboy that makes no goddamn sense, you would use the formex on the m4 part and discontinue when your running pmag solo...

 

[cowboy007]

Cowboy that makes no goddamn sense, you would use the formex on the m4 part and discontinue when your running pmag solo...

Dead.. thats not the advice I got from people who ACTUALLY RAN the cycle

 

[schwellington]

Dead.. thats not the advice I got from people who ACTUALLY RAN the cycle

this!

How many cycles have u actually ran deadaim?

Or is all your knowledge just armchair knowledge????

 

[jbryand101b]

I actually agree with deadaim.

pmag does not aromatize, or interact with the 5a reductase enzyme. running any ai with a non aromatizable compound is stupid.
if you are worried about estrogen, use a serm.

you're going to use an ai to kill your estrogen, and then take dhea which orally will convert mostly into estrogen (estrodiol, and dione) it's ass backwards.

the people who ran the cycle probably had w/e sides like lethargy, limp ****, w/e because they were stupid and killed what little estrogen they had with the forma.

also, running an ai with a compound like m14add would defeat the purpost of taking it, because if you want m14add that doesn't convert into estrogen, well, get hd. the 4chloro prevents aromatization of the methyl 1,4 andro diol.

if one is worried about the negative effects from estrogen, a serm is better suited than an a.i.

but it will ultimately be goal dependant.
serms will block the estrogen receptor, preventing estrogen from causing it's side effects, and still allow you to have estrogen to grow.

used forma to squash thier estrogen, then felt lethargic, so they took dhea which converted into estrogen in order to make them feel better. but they probably didn't know thats the reason. and your taking cycle advise from these people.

also, 120mg of m14add + 50mg of pmag is stupid. if you feel you need to go over 90mg, then you really need to just get some dbol.

It really bugs me to see people dosing methylated steroids so high over 100mgs and then stacking more on top of that. it's just stupid. nothing else to call it.

for any methylated oral. if your needing to go over 100mg's, well, it's time to look at using a different compound for your goals, cause the one your using isn't the one.

50mg of dbol to do what your trying to achieve with 120mg of m14add.

or you could stack 20mg of pp with 20mg of sd, and have even more gains.

what im getting at is someone needs to do more research.

 

[deadaim]

I actually agree with deadaim.

pmag does not aromatize, or interact with the 5a reductase enzyme. running any ai with a non aromatizable compound is stupid.
if you are worried about estrogen, use a serm.

you're going to use an ai to kill your estrogen, and then take dhea which orally will convert mostly into estrogen (estrodiol, and dione) it's ass backwards.

the people who ran the cycle probably had w/e sides like lethargy, limp ****, w/e because they were stupid and killed what little estrogen they had with the forma.

also, running an ai with a compound like m14add would defeat the purpost of taking it, because if you want m14add that doesn't convert into estrogen, well, get hd. the 4chloro prevents aromatization of the methyl 1,4 andro diol.

if one is worried about the negative effects from estrogen, a serm is better suited than an a.i.

but it will ultimately be goal dependant.
serms will block the estrogen receptor, preventing estrogen from causing it's side effects, and still allow you to have estrogen to grow.

used forma to squash thier estrogen, then felt lethargic, so they took dhea which converted into estrogen in order to make them feel better. but they probably didn't know thats the reason. and your taking cycle advise from these people.

also, 120mg of m14add + 50mg of pmag is stupid. if you feel you need to go over 90mg, then you really need to just get some dbol.

It really bugs me to see people dosing methylated steroids so high over 100mgs and then stacking more on top of that. it's just stupid. nothing else to call it.

for any methylated oral. if your needing to go over 100mg's, well, it's time to look at using a different compound for your goals, cause the one your using isn't the one.

50mg of dbol to do what your trying to achieve with 120mg of m14add.

or you could stack 20mg of pp with 20mg of sd, and have even more gains.

what im getting at is someone needs to do more research.

Hey! Someone who knows something! get outta town

 

[Tagio]

I actually agree with deadaim.

for any methylated oral. if your needing to go over 100mg's, well, it's time to look at using a different compound for your goals, cause the one your using isn't the one.

50mg of dbol to do what your trying to achieve with 120mg of m14add.

or you could stack 20mg of pp with 20mg of sd, and have even more gains.

what im getting at is someone needs to do more research.

isn't 100mg pretty much an arbitrary number?

also, isn't 20mg SD and 20mg PP much more stressful to the body than 120mg of m14add and 50mg of pmag? the milligram amount doesn't equate to toxicity. there's no point freaking because someone is taking 200mg total methylated compounds/day, when it's still less toxic than 30mg of SD or 15mg of M1T.

I definitely agree in principle though, that taking bucketloads of a weak compound to get a stronger effect is pretty pointless when you could take 10-20mg of super instead - but using p-mag to end / extend a m14add cycle seems to have worked really well for the people who have tried it on this board. 120mg of m1,4add seems to get good results with low toxicity - and the compound doesn't kill your estrogen levels, making it pretty unique among the compounds available OTC right now.

i'm running this right now:
m1,4add:120/120/120/120/00/00
----pmag:000/000/75/75/75/75

in the middle of the second week right now. will post a review when done. i agree also on your points about AIs.

 

[deadaim]

isn't 100mg pretty much an arbitrary number?

also, isn't 20mg SD and 20mg PP much more stressful to the body than 120mg of m14add and 50mg of pmag? the milligram amount doesn't equate to toxicity. there's no point freaking because someone is taking 200mg total methylated compounds/day, when it's still less toxic than 30mg of SD or 15mg of M1T.

I definitely agree in principle though, that taking bucketloads of a weak compound to get a stronger effect is pretty pointless when you could take 10-20mg of super instead - but using p-mag to end / extend a m14add cycle seems to have worked really well for the people who have tried it on this board. 120mg of m1,4add seems to get good results with low toxicity - and the compound doesn't kill your estrogen levels, making it pretty unique among the compounds available OTC right now.

i'm running this right now:
m1,4add:120/120/120/120/00/00
----pmag:000/000/75/75/75/75

in the middle of the second week right now. will post a review when done. i agree also on your points about AIs.

Thats close to how ID run it, cept Id do 90x5 weeks to elongate the m1,4add in kind of a slower gains = maintainable gains type of thing.

 

[Tagio]

Thats close to how ID run it, cept Id do 90x5 weeks to elongate the m1,4add in kind of a slower gains = maintainable gains type of thing.

not a bad idea. i might run an extra week of p-mag instead if i feel ok, to solidify the gains further.

the m1,4add is definitely causing some water retention btw - my definition is blurred even on my delts which usually show nice striations when flexed. when you take SD you suddenly look jacked from the glycogen in your delts and traps blowing up - with this stuff i look bigger but softer. however, on SD i feel like i'm slowly dying, and on m14add i feel totally fine so far.

 

[deadaim]

Hmm your only feeling fine? I figured with the methyl-estrogen in your blood you should feel extra great.

 

[schwellington]

no side effects? what day r u on?....and dead aim is correct about maintaing gains easier- it give our bodies time to adjust to the extra mass

 

[schwellington]

nvm just saw your in the middle of the second weak- right on dude tear it up

 

[jbryand101b]

it's never the best idea to use over 100mg of a methylated steroid. ever.

can it be done and a person be totally fine. of course. I've ran some unhealthy stacks, and been okay, and fine.

is it advisable, I dont think so.


m14add can aromatize into methyl estradione/diol. it wouldn't hurt estrogen levels. it would increase them.

using a non aromatizable compound like pmag could lower some peoples estrogen production.
and then using an aromatase inhibitor could lower it even further.

taking dhea on a cycle of non aromatizable steroids could help with sone sides like lethargy, libido, immune function, ect.

taking dhea on a cycle of aromatizable steroids like dbol, or m14add may increase estrogenic side effects.

 

[schwellington]

if I where running a stack like this

m14add-90/90/90/90/0/0
Pmag75/75/75/100/100/100 would it be okay to throw in dhea after m14add is out of the picture if the dhea is needed?


Or I could just do this m14-90/90/90/90/0/0/0/0
P-75/75/75/100/100/100/100/100
Epi-0/0/0/0/40/40/40/40


WOULD BE EPIC! Unfortunately it would not be worth it

 

[jbryand101b]

you could add in the dhea if you felt you needed it when ur running the pmag solo.

I think you'll be good from running the m14add though, but you never know.

 

[schwellington]

yeah should be fine....I will probly just tough it out if need be but I dont think it will come to that

 

[cowboy007]

I actually agree with deadaim.


what im getting at is someone needs to do more research.

This cycle - m1/Pmag/Form - has been run on this board and others quite a bit in the past 1.5 years, each time with very good results. Ive done my research, talked to the folks who actually ran the cycle, and spent hours reading through log after lengthy, lengthy log. It works, and its highly recommended.

Nor did I ever say when Id use DHEA... I actually said it helped others when they took it after feeling run down... as in towards the end of the cycle

I like the Formex to bridge into PCT. If you really get into some of the work done on Formex, it seems like a very wise choice and I can see why it proved so effective for those like escholar and gymaddict

And 120 mg +50 Pmag is more toxic than 50mg dbol or a stack of SD/PP?? Why do think that? Because it has more "mgs?" Thats like saying 8oz of beer is as toxic as 8oz of vodka.

 

[deadaim]

Take an AI with a non aromatizing steroid if you want, we are just telling you it makes no damn sense, you dont have to listen.

 

[cowboy007]

The arguments against the cycle - the same ones made above - have all been brought up before in logs (particularly Escholars), with counter arguments posted accordingly. You all make very valid arguments, but so do those who defend the cycle. In that case, I decided to go with what has been proven to work for other lifters.

Studies can say this and that, but in the end, its what works. Hell, 10 years ago theyd have laughed you out of a doctors office if you told them you took 81mg of asprin a day to help prevent heart attacks. Now we know that same dosage administered within 3 minutes of an attack increases the chances of surviving an attack until arrival at a medical center by 70%. Heart attack survivors who make it to a hospital alive have a 93% chance of recovery.

Guys who ran the cycle found that Form used with the Pmag helped to dry out the gains made by the m1, harden them up, and helped in the transition into PCT. Not what conventional wisdom says, but thats what happened to most. Most also thought the Form helped them hold onto their gains better. And while m1 is more armatizable than Pmag, the Form will help to prevent the Estro sides that pop up as the cycle leaves the body. Tapered into Inhibit-E, I wont even need a SERM for PCT. A few guys I Pm'd said they thought it helped with sides as I found a few fellas who ran the cycle with the Form and without. Both recommended the Formey.

 

[deadaim]

You still have been able to give a real reason to take it... to "harden up" this is a retarded bro science word to use.

You sound like your working with magic potions, like your some child that needs to inject wild creativity when none is needed.

Run the formestane with the m1,4add, and only when you need it. Other wise dont use it, and use a SERM for your pct.

Honestly if you dont want to listen, I dont care what ill side effects you recieve as a consequence.

 

[jbryand101b]

good luck cowboy. you obviosly are an expert.

I'm going to say this, and leave it alone.

you said they used an aromatase inhibitor to harden up. you are meaning to prevent estrogen caused water retention.

and they did this because they had so much aromatized methyl estrogen from the m14add, it carried over to their pmag end of the cycle, a compound that has zero estrogen conversion, and therefore, does not need any prevention of aromatase.

and these good bro's used oral dhea, which has a higher conversion rate to estrogen, to help with the lethargy, and other sides from the cycle. (caused unknowningly, most likely, from lack of estrogen, thats why the dhea helped so much)

All I am saying is you are going in circles. getting rid of estrogen with formestane. and then putting it back in to feel better with dhea.

so then maybe, use the formestane towards the end of the m14add part of the cycle and then going into the pmag, you wont need any aromatase inhibitor, and then wont need to replace the estrogen you just got rid of with formestane by using dhea.

thats all im getting at. but do w/e im sure you'll be fine.