I honestly try to overlook most things on here that I disagree with and avoid conflicts - but it seems like you're trying to start an argument so let me break it down like this to you:
You said:
A good night's sleep the night before could, along with a ton of other variables, be the reason for that bump up on the day.
I replied:
But either way, a good or bad nights sleep isn't going to increase nor decrease 30% in one day.
Your own reply that I have quoted above in this post says:
1 nights sleep perhaps, a week or two, very likely
Read that again - in context. Your post literally said a good nights sleep
THE night before could be a reason for that bump on
THE day.
You said a good nights sleep the night before - not better sleep for a couple of weeks. I replied exactly to what you said.
Then you decided to post:
I respectfully disagree with your comments about good quality sleep not being consequential for the attributed boost in test levels
Except the problem is that I never said that. In fact, I said in my first post:
It's always good to put things in perspective. Not disagreeing with that; but showing another side of the perspective too.
Objectively speaking - just as you point out that some things could have contributed to making them higher on the day of the blood work, reverse variables could also make them lower; meaning that if he had a bad nights sleep for example it could have lowered them. But either way, a good or bad nights sleep isn't going to increase nor decrease 30% in one day.
& in a separate post:
I literally point out in my post that there are a lot of variables that can affect testosterone levels including sleep. But I point out that just as you made the assumption that they may have been increased bc of a good nights sleep, that it would also be true that if he had a bad nights sleep the night before maybe the increase would have been higher than 30% but a bad night's sleep might have brought it down.
The literal definition of perspective is - point of view.
Therefore, the definition of putting something in perspective is presenting multiple points of view.
Hence why I said that if you want to go off of the assumption that if a good nights sleep or a good weeks sleep can increase them, then a bad nights sleep or bad weeks sleep may decrease them.
I was cool with discussion up until the point where you want to start to throw insults:
I understand why you'd want to promote supplements as being more influential than sleep but the science is clear on this.
My replies to you had been perfectly respectful and explanatory. I acknowledged that perspective was important and presented a different perspective and then you wanted to reply with this comment.
I've posted here on Anabolic Minds for probably 15+ years. I post here to help people and answer questions about supplements and the industry in general for people that post here and people that read but don't post.
I promote supplements in the sense of answering questions and letting people know what products may help them when asked or in relevant situations. I take the time to acknowledge people's posts, their issues, personal situations and circumstances, etc. and try to help in any way that I can - which is often way above and beyond suggesting a supplement.
I have NEVER been one to just go into a thread and say 'here, buy this' and drop a discount code. There's nothing wrong with the people doing that that do it, they're reps and that's their job/role - but that's not me. I've always tried to go way above and beyond helping people so your comment that I'm just promoting supplements is extremely disrespectful.
And also, if I was just promoting supplements, I could have quoted your original post about the importance of sleep quality and said for those that want to make sure to optimize their testosterone thru improved sleep quality, make sure to take ZMA XT and Sleep Assist XT with M-Test/Optimize-T. Now, that would be promoting supplements
Last part on 'promoting supplements' - I just wrote a very detailed reply on SAMe in another thread because people had questions about it. And guess what? No company that I'm associated with makes one. I just enjoy helping people and discussing things like this so I wrote a very detailed answer on it to be informative.
As for your comment that the 'science is clear on this' - what is this? Because the first way that you presented it was that and I quote '
A good night's sleep the night before could, along with a ton of other variables, be the reason for that bump up on the day.' So no, there is no science to support that one good night's sleep can increase test levels by 30% in one day nor that a bad nights sleep can decrease them by 30% in one day.
The science is very clear, as I pointed out myself - that sleep quality can be an important factor in regards to testosterone levels for some people. Hence why if someone has sleep apnea, getting the proper diagnosis and treatment can be so beneficial. You're acting like I disagree with this for some reason when its something I've posted about literally for years.
And while we're on the subject of the beneficial effects of sleep on testosterone levels:
- M-Test contains KSM-66 which has been clinically shown to increase both total and free testosterone levels AND improve sleep quality; so therefore it has a direct and an indirect benefit on testosterone levels.
- There are over 24 clinical studies on KSM-66 so that's real science.
- An interesting note - KSM-66 is well-known today and highly promoted today but we were one of the first companies to use KSM-66 in a natural testosterone booster many years before it was as popular mainstream as it is now.
You're perfectly entitled to have your own opinion and agree or disagree with whomever you want to.
My posts are informational and its not my intention to convince you of anything one way or the other. I'm here to help people and discuss supplements and science with people that enjoy it or that are interested in doing so.
You're the one that came into a thread that a newer member posted and posted a negative and diminishing post towards them, especially the 'meeh' part. There was zero reason to do that and its discouraging to new members and people reading that may not post.
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What's even more frustrating about going back and forth with this is that your entire argument is hypothetical and derailing toward the original posters thread.
He posted a post sharing his personal results and feedback, seemingly because he was excited and wanted to help people. That's it. There was no reason to post anything negative in the thread at all.
You identified your original post as being to put things in perspective.
But your perspective as related to his personal results were based off of multiple assumptions:
1) That the OP doesn't normally sleep well.
2) That he happened to sleep well the night before the test and therefore it influenced the test.
But the original poster never mentioned sleep; you did.
You didn't mention facts about sleep quality - you made assumptions and negative comments towards his test results.
I try my best to treat everyone here with politeness and respect. I hate situations like this and I can understand why things like this deter people from posting now days bc I'm considering stopping posting here myself bc situations like this take up too much time that could be spent on other things.
If you want any further back and forth with me, please kindly take it to pm's so as to not derail this thread any further. I'm glad to help you, answer questions, etc. but I'm not going to continue to be misquoted and debate back and forth over something that shouldn't have happened to begin with.
