M-Dien for Females?

Brodus

Banned
I searched for this and only got two threads and they didn't have dosing info.

I know it was posted here at one point.

My girlfriend wants to take M-dien, and I was going to recommend 1mg a day...given the newly discovered dosing scheme, this seems low enough, yes?
 
Yeah, I read that...of course, MD also claimed that an experienced bodybuilder gained aroudn 15 pounds of muscle on 3mg, which is total B.S.

I think we're going to do 1mg/day, and post results. I'll see how expensive bloodwork is under her insurance, and hopefully we can run that, too.
 
Only about 1/2 as androgenic as methyltest, and women commonly use 2.5mg/d w/ an estrogen combo now. She could probably use up to 5mg no prob.
 
I have seen a few females use 1-3mgs starting low and working up and have done real well.
 
Well, as long as she doesn't grow a penis and a beard, I think we're okay!

Kidding aside, thanks for your help, guys.

Dr. D, what do you mean by Estrogen combo? Can you elaborate.
 
Brodus said:
Well, as long as she doesn't grow a penis and a beard, I think we're okay!

Kidding aside, thanks for your help, guys.

Dr. D, what do you mean by Estrogen combo? Can you elaborate.
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I am not DR. D, but Estratest is mix of estrogen and methytest. Can be used to treat
menopausal symtoms.
 
Brodus said:
Excellent, I bought some of that.

Thanks for your help!

I'll post results.
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Brodus,
AZNurse is correct about the m4ad and about the Estratest (very pop these days w/ women) If Sldg endorses the MD, then I would trust it. I have never tried MD, but I can tell you that my wife has endometriosis and I've tried a lot of andogens on her trying to get her some relief, so I have a pretty good idea of what works for chicks w/out sides and stuff. PM me if you need any more info. on this.
 
Brodus, any updates on how your gf's cycle is going? My wife is now showing some interest in some MD or M4ohn. I'm trying to research this, but details are sketchy and it's hard to obtain reliable info/feedback. Please post if she started her cycle and add as much detail as possible.


Thanks,
dd
 
Yes, my girlfriend has been on-cycle for almost five weeks now. First three weeks we went 1mg. ED to assess tolerance, sides, etc. No side effects; she felt a boost in libido and energy.

Then the dose was increased to 2mg. ED. She lost 4 pounds the first week of 2mg. The only side effect she noticed was oily skin/mild acne. We might go up to 3mg. for another couple weeks before taking a break.

I have a ton of M4AD capped, but didn't want to add that until we get an idea of how MDien works for her.

I think we will also try M4OHN in the future...she'd proabably do really well on a cycle of M4OHN and Tri-Max, b/c I think she has supressed thyroid function...but she's deathly afraid of messing with thyroid drugs. Also, stims are out of the question for her.

Basically, we're trying to find a program that helps her meet her body recomp. goals. It's strange--she's the first person I have met where 5X weekly cardio for a month straight did nothing in terms of weight change. And her diet was pretty solid, too. This all occured after she quit smoking, though, so I explained to her that there may be all sorts of rebound effects from that, and the fact that she was able to quit smoking w/o gaining weight was a triumph in itself.

Alas, no bloodwork to post. She is a Shiatsu Massage Therapist, so she pays her own insurance, and it doesn't cover bloodwork at random.
 
BTW, I love MD. Just when you think it's not working, it kicks in. It has none of those nasty sides that M1T does. I went 8-10mg. for a month. Next cycle I'll use it with M4OHN for 8 weeks (only 2 weeks in the middle with the two overlapping--basically ramp up the MD, Add M4OHN, ramp down and phase out MD, And then run M4OHN to end).

It did shut me down pretty hard, though.
 
Brodus said:
BTW, I love MD. Just when you think it's not working, it kicks in. It has none of those nasty sides that M1T does. I went 8-10mg. for a month. Next cycle I'll use it with M4OHN for 8 weeks (only 2 weeks in the middle with the two overlapping--basically ramp up the MD, Add M4OHN, ramp down and phase out MD, And then run M4OHN to end).

It did shut me down pretty hard, though.
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brodus just curious...
what gains did you get from 10mg ED for 30days ??
 
I lost 5 pounds of fat, probably gained about 3 pounds of muscle, and saw my abs for the first time in a long time.
 
Yes, I was in a slight calorie deficit. I read up and determined that's what this would be best for. However, I as not at all dieting heavy, and I hadn't seen my abs in a couple years.
 
I am one of those that thinks it is indeed not junk.

But in women, it is even more desirable for the favorable estrogen conversion. A lot of times they prescribe methyltest with estrogen (Estrotest--read above) as hormone replacement therapy for women.

I think the user reports have debunked the "M4AD Sucks" myth. It's not the same thing as methyltest, and I've yet to hear reports of gyno, etc., even with the current high dosing schemes.
 
wastedwhiteboy2 said:
brodus you mentioned m4ad. I thought that stuff was junk? how would it help your gf.
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Definately not junk if you can deal with the sides. I have to say there are better compounds for purely bulking or purely strength, but it definately has its place with in a stack.

The estrogenic side is easily dealt with .1mg of letro is enough for me. But if you are prone to headache from androgens...THIS IS NOT FOR YOU!
 
dego said:
Definately not junk if you can deal with the sides. I have to say there are better compounds for purely bulking or purely strength, but it definately has its place with in a stack.

The estrogenic side is easily dealt with .1mg of letro is enough for me. But if you are prone to headache from androgens...THIS IS NOT FOR YOU!
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Ditto.

Same thing w/ 4AD too. How do these guys do 2g of cyp/wk?! I would have a headache from hell.
 
Brodus said:
Yes, my girlfriend has been on-cycle for almost five weeks now. First three weeks we went 1mg. ED to assess tolerance, sides, etc. No side effects; she felt a boost in libido and energy.

Then the dose was increased to 2mg. ED. She lost 4 pounds the first week of 2mg. The only side effect she noticed was oily skin/mild acne. We might go up to 3mg. for another couple weeks before taking a break.

I have a ton of M4AD capped, but didn't want to add that until we get an idea of how MDien works for her.

I think we will also try M4OHN in the future...she'd proabably do really well on a cycle of M4OHN and Tri-Max, b/c I think she has supressed thyroid function...but she's deathly afraid of messing with thyroid drugs. Also, stims are out of the question for her.

Basically, we're trying to find a program that helps her meet her body recomp. goals. It's strange--she's the first person I have met where 5X weekly cardio for a month straight did nothing in terms of weight change. And her diet was pretty solid, too. This all occured after she quit smoking, though, so I explained to her that there may be all sorts of rebound effects from that, and the fact that she was able to quit smoking w/o gaining weight was a triumph in itself.

Alas, no bloodwork to post. She is a Shiatsu Massage Therapist, so she pays her own insurance, and it doesn't cover bloodwork at random.
Click to expand...

Bump for progress and other ramblings.
 
dego said:
Bump for progress and other ramblings.
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My GF, who is 47 y/o, did well on 1- 2mg/day of Methyl D. a few months ago, but she absolutely loves M4OHN.

She is currently taking M4OHN (it's been roughly three or four weeks now, but I'll find out exactly how long next time we get together), and finding that the frequency of hot flashes we attributed to perimenopause gradually decreased during the first week of use, and have completely subsided after two weeks. Lower back pain that was nagging her prior to beginning the cycle also subsided after a week or so. She started her cycle with 4mg./day (Designer Supp. brand), and just recently upped her dose to 6 mg/day (using the Designer Supp liquid beta for the extra 2mg./day). Her strength keeps increasing and bodywise, she has not only dropped visible bodyfat, but it's had a hardening effect that especially pronounced in the upper thigh, hip, and glute area (oh yas, how I love that sculptured look and feel!).
 
the Cardinal said:
My GF, who is 47 y/o, did well on 1- 2mg/day of Methyl D. a few months ago, but she absolutely loves M4OHN.

She is currently taking M4OHN (it's been roughly three or four weeks now, but I'll find out exactly how long next time we get together), and finding that the frequency of hot flashes we attributed to perimenopause gradually decreased during the first week of use, and have completely subsided after two weeks. Lower back pain that was nagging her prior to beginning the cycle also subsided after a week or so. She started her cycle with 4mg./day (Designer Supp. brand), and just recently upped her dose to 6 mg/day (using the Designer Supp liquid beta for the extra 2mg./day). Her strength keeps increasing and bodywise, she has not only dropped visible bodyfat, but it's had a hardening effect that especially pronounced in the upper thigh, hip, and glute area (oh yas, how I love that sculptured look and feel!).
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gonna have to try this stuff.
 
MOHN sounds like it may have more effect on body recomp, but I'm concerned about its effect on birth control. Nothing logically seems to say there should be a problem ... but I have a nagging suspicion that MOHN (and all OH compounds) have at least a minute amount of anti-estrogen properties. Anyone care to call me an idiot and make me feel better.

Dr. D I'd value your opinion on this.
 
I'm also looking at giving my wife 1-2 mg MD ED with maybe a couple of weeks alternating trimax and clen. Brodus, any recommendations? Do women do PCT after a cycle? If so how? Thanks!
 
dego said:
MOHN sounds like it may have more effect on body recomp, but I'm concerned about its effect on birth control. Nothing logically seems to say there should be a problem ... but I have a nagging suspicion that MOHN (and all OH compounds) have at least a minute amount of anti-estrogen properties. Anyone care to call me an idiot and make me feel better.

Dr. D I'd value your opinion on this.
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Your correct. When you put an electrophile (like OH or a halogen) on the 4 position of an androgen, it makes for a good anti-e. Here is a quick summary of the androgens I have experience with first hand in ref. to women:

Anadrol 12.5-25mg/d for up to 2 month
Halotestin 5-10mg/d for up to 1 month
Test Enanthate/Cyp 200mg/wk for 2 weeks
4-AD cyp 250mg/wk for 2 weeks
19-nordiol cyp 600mg/wk for 3 weeks
19-nordiol & dione 500-1000mg/d for several months
DHEA 200+mg/d for months
M4OHN 8mg/d for 2 weeks
5-AD 250mg/d for 1 week
1,4-AD 250mg/d for 1 week
M1T 1.25-2.5mg/d for 1 week
Letro 0.1-0.2mg/d for months
Provera Depo @ 6months
Ortho-TriCyclin for years

None of these patterns resulted in long term masculinization. Surprisingly, DHEA seems to be the harshest in reguard to this. Estrus cycle is modified by all but M4OHN, but experience is very limited still with this compound. Strength gains were only signifigant with 19-nor cyp. No signifigant fat loss noted with any of them except maybe Halo. No effect on breast size observed with any of them. Periods can be completely aborted with most of these at high doses from day 20 on. I have no data w/ MD or M5, but these should be used very short term if at all in women. PCT is not required with women, unless they are not on BC. If they are on BC, then suppression is a good thing. Mood is negatively effected with the 19nor steroids. Aggresion is noticable with all upon prolonged dosing. If you have specific questions, just PM me. I have years of data and observation and it's just too much to put here. :)
 
DR.D said:
Your correct. When you put an electrophile (like OH or a halogen) on the 4 position of an androgen, it makes for a good anti-e. Here is a quick summary of the androgens I have experience with first hand in ref. to women:
Click to expand...

<OCD taking over> :twisted:
Let me be very specific could MOHN possibly subvert birth control. Act as an Anti-Estrogen (ie clomid) or should it act purely as an aromatase-inhibitor (molecular or systemic) in which case estrogens present in the birth control are still shutting down ovulation.

Let me also urge everyone to be acute in there use of the terms anti-estrogen and aromatase-inhibitors.
<OCD under control> :hammer:
 
LOL, OK. It's a comp. inhibitor, so it will hurt estrogen formation, but not exogenously supplied estrogen like from BC. It actually helps BC because it's an androgen too which acts like BC in women by preventing ovulation and cycling in the first place. Plus M4OHN is def. anti-progestinic by virtue of the 4-sub so that that means it helps BC even more because it is anti-pro-gestation. So no, it is not subversive to BC at all. The only thing it probably doesn't do is promote further suppression, but the BC controls that anyway.

I'm going to go drink my prozac milkshake now and try to relax! :o
 
DR.D said:
I'm going to go drink my prozac milkshake now and try to relax! :o
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Thanks a million I'll pop my Anafranil now and spare everyone my incessant questioning. :icon_lol:
 
This morning I looked at that the 50 1mg Methyl D pills I had left and thought that I could do five more days on my cycle at 10mg ED, or have my wife do a full 4-5 week cycle at 1-2 mg ED. So I started her on the stuff she always bitches about me taking: 1mg of "that methyl crap" (methyl D) and 60mcg "clemgluteral" (clen). Shes never tried any kind of anabolic and never tried clen, so this should be interesting. We (I) have two goals, to cut some fat and gain some muscle, and to get her into taking all the fun stuff I take so she doesn't bitch as much about me spending money on prohormones and research substances and all other "useless crap" that I buy.

She told me she had a serious case of the shakes all morning, so maybe I should give her less than 60 mcg tomarrow :).

I'll keep you all updated on her progress.
 
Just an update:

My girlfriend was experiencing some pain in her abdomen as well as some other strange symptoms, so we decided to stop the cycle, just to be safe. I don't think it had anything to do with the MD, but the good news is she lost about 6 pounds and her muscles hardened up.
 
am considering giving the GF some m4ohn, she is preg now, but wants to get back into shape after having the baby, any thoughts on how long to wait for her natural hormones to stabilize after having the baby? I was thinking at least a couple months time for her to get her natural gains back from working out again and dieting.
 
Brodus said:
My girlfriend was experiencing some pain in her abdomen as well as some other strange symptoms, so we decided to stop the cycle, just to be safe. I don't think it had anything to do with the MD, but the good news is she lost about 6 pounds and her muscles hardened up.
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Was she taking anything else? How long was she on total and at what dose? And at the risk of your health what is her weight?



weeenisss said:
am considering giving the GF some m4ohn, she is preg now, but wants to get back into shape after having the baby, any thoughts on how long to wait for her natural hormones to stabilize after having the baby? I was thinking at least a couple months time for her to get her natural gains back from working out again and dieting.
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To state the obvious after she is no longer breast feading.
Oops time for another Anafranil.
 
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To state the obvious after she is no longer breast feading.[/QUOTE]
ugh...yeah that is kind of stating the obvious...
 
After the Mrs. went running this morning and her heart was pounding, shes scared to death of clen. She didn't even take it before the run in the morning, but the morning before. 60 mcg was definitly too much to start her at. Lesson learned. Shes gonna hold off on the clen and just do the 1 mg of MD ED for now. If her experience is anything like mine, she probably won't notice anything for at least a couple of weeks. I'm just gonna give her the pill in the morning and let her tell me if she feels anything different on her on so I can hopefully avoid the placebo effect. I might be able to convince her to try clen again at a later date. Definitly gonna start her at 20 mcg this time.
 
Update:

She has been on 1mg MD ED for the last 10 days. I'm really having to talk her into staying with the cycle because she just got 2 pimples. Her shes definitely showing more muscle, her breasts shrunk a little (its ok they're large anyways), and her sex drive is up :thumbsup: . She's also been on clen starting at 40 mg and working up to 60 for the past week. She hasn't really noticed any strength increase or anything like that. Will keep updated.
 
My girl just got of M-dien at 2 mg a day, she had moderate muscle growth that came fast then platued out. It left her looking much harder though. She did experience some acne on her chest and back so watch out and worste of all she got a few dark hairs on her face. The stuff is very androgenic for women apparently. be carefull, we are not sure but she had some extreme chest tightness while on and its still going a little bit.
 
wastedwhiteboy2 said:
is she still on it?
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Yeah. Shes basically just hardened up a little. Not too many effects. 1mg is not enough for her. Theres 12-1mg pills left so I can double the dose for a week or just have her ride out 12 more days at 1mg ED. The acne is gone, which is all she really cared about anyways :trout: .
 
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