Low Test Levels - Precontest - Options?

[deadsheepmill]

1) Apologies if in the wrong subforum. Mods move to appropriate place if necessary.

2) My Google-Fu is weak. Search function generates TONS of results.

Here we go:

I’m 34 years old, and I competed in my first show on 3/28/09. I didn’t do well, placing 8th out of 11 in novice middleweights. I needed to be a lot more conditioned. I am going to do another show in June, and I’m already further along than I was at the last show. I just got bloodwork back. All is well with lipids, liver, etc. Test is low at 182, and that’s the crux of my problem.
4 weeks out from the show, I started a cycle of Halocore (50mg per day). I started taking Inhibit-E 2 weeks out to mitigate water retention somewhat. PCT was OTC, using Reversitol. Since Halo is not high on the aromatiztion list, I didn’t use Nolva or anything like that. Didn’t see the need, as I ran a stack of Equitren and Monsterdrol back in September and no noticeable sides from that (no gyno anyhow). I used Equalizer for PCT, and all seemed well. In fact my strength gains remained until I started cutting for the show in late november. Start weight was 231, and I had a LONG way to go. Still ain’t there yet even at 176. For the March show, I weighed 184. I stopped losing fat. My problems were drastic overdieting, too many CNS fat burners, and daily hourlong sessions of cardio rolled into one big assault on my system. Needless to say, I wasn;t going to cut anymore fat.
After the show, I pigged out and stayed out of the gym for 3 days. Started my diet again but at a higher level of caloric intake and more carbs w/ fewer and less severe low carb days. Much less cardio too. It seems to be working, as my weight and mirror seem to indicate, though I have hit a little plateau. I probably need to add a *little* cardio.
Back to the test numbers. I’ve got an appt Friday, and he may want to start me on some test therapy. As near as I can tell, the options would be test enanthate, cypionate, or undecoanate.
My questions are:
1) From what I understand, these cause more water retention than something like Winny. Is this so, and should I hold off til after precontest?
2) If the answer to 2 is yes, will the low test levels make it difficult to cut bodyfat the rest of the way to the contest?
3) With my levels seemingly already in the crapper, would it make sense to cycle on another pro-anabolic 4 weeks out from the show to give me a boost until then? I have Furazodrol on hand, and that ought to do the trick.
4) Is it possible that the initial Monsterdrol/Equitren stack started this whole mess, and I am only just now reaping the ‘rewards’ ?
My current state of affairs is this: Strength is WAY down. Libido low. Training intensity good. Focus and mood generally good. Weight stuck at 176 to 178 depending on water bloat, but I think I can kickstart the trend down with a little increas ine cardio and a small reduction of calories. I’m getting better at that sort of thing. I am concerned about the low test levels causing me to lose mass. I’ve never actually made contest shape, so I have no real baseline to know if I’ve lost muscle mass, at least not visually.

Answers to questions and any other 'advices' would be much appreciated.

 

[EasyEJL]

1) From what I understand, these cause more water retention than something like Winny. Is this so, and should I hold off til after precontest?

They may or may not, depends on your aromataze levels. Its possible the doctor gives you the choice of test propionate as well, which some people dislike as you dose every other day, or at least 2x-3x a week at minimum, but it does kick in faster and tends to hold less water. If there is concern over estrogen + water retention, you could use aromasin or one of the other prescription AIs.

3) With my levels seemingly already in the crapper, would it make sense to cycle on another pro-anabolic 4 weeks out from the show to give me a boost until then? I have Furazodrol on hand, and that ought to do the trick.

not really as that will only monkey more with your levels, including LH, FSH etc. Its probably ok to do so if you are already on testosterone replacement though, as it shouldn't harm anything.

4) Is it possible that the initial Monsterdrol/Equitren stack started this whole mess, and I am only just now reaping the ‘rewards’ ?

its fairly likely, though it could be age related too. Without having a blood test before your first cycle, you'll never know which is why i encourage it. Even if it costs you $300 out of pocket each for pre + post bloodwork, its worth it because you can't unwind a clock.

My current state of affairs is this: Strength is WAY down. Libido low. Training intensity good. Focus and mood generally good. Weight stuck at 176 to 178 depending on water bloat, but I think I can kickstart the trend down with a little increas ine cardio and a small reduction of calories. I’m getting better at that sort of thing. I am concerned about the low test levels causing me to lose mass. I’ve never actually made contest shape, so I have no real baseline to know if I’ve lost muscle mass, at least not visually.

Answers to questions and any other 'advices' would be much appreciated.

Loosing some muscle mass while cutting isn't abnormal, its all about ratios. And how fast you loose how much scale weight defines how much is fat vs muscle, as you can only loose so much fat a week.

Just as a question, did you go pretty low in fats, particularly saturated fats as your precontest diet?

 

[deadsheepmill]

They may or may not, depends on your aromataze levels. Its possible the doctor gives you the choice of test propionate as well, which some people dislike as you dose every other day, or at least 2x-3x a week at minimum, but it does kick in faster and tends to hold less water. If there is concern over estrogen + water retention, you could use aromasin or one of the other prescription AIs.



not really as that will only monkey more with your levels, including LH, FSH etc. Its probably ok to do so if you are already on testosterone replacement though, as it shouldn't harm anything.

Do you think that any extra water caused by the propianate would be a non-issue if I water loaded and depleted correctly (along with diuretics - herbal, as I ain't touching lasix)? I water loaded and carb depleted for 3 days and then on day 4 cut water in half and started carbing up. Day 5 (Friday) was 16 oz of water and more carbs. By friday morning, I looked the best I had up to that point, weighing at 181. I didn't have much water left - the lack of detail was fat. By the end of the day friday, I was up to 186, even though I hadn't had any water. It was all the food and no pooping. Suppositories fixed that though. I looked worse saturday morning, so I think somehow there was some water to retain. Prolly from the sweet potatoes and chicken.

its fairly likely, though it could be age related too. Without having a blood test before your first cycle, you'll never know which is why i encourage it. Even if it costs you $300 out of pocket each for pre + post bloodwork, its worth it because you can't unwind a clock.

Unfortunately, you're right. The clock can't be unwound, so my starting point is now, effectively. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Didn't because I hadn't looked into the matter enough and figured it wouldn't be a big deal. I could always spot the gyno and account for that. Bloodwork? Who needs it? Not me, even at 34, I'm bullet proof. Yeah, right...

I know better now.

Loosing some muscle mass while cutting isn't abnormal, its all about ratios. And how fast you loose how much scale weight defines how much is fat vs muscle, as you can only loose so much fat a week.

Just as a question, did you go pretty low in fats, particularly saturated fats as your precontest diet?

For the march contest, Fats were usually in the 40 to 50 gram per day range, sources being fish oil, nuts, natty PB, what was occuring in turkey and the egg yolk or 2 I mixed in with my whites. Low carb days were as low as 60, usually at 100, and this included residual carbs from shakes, carbs found in broccoli and veggies, etc. I had a cheat meal once a week. Usually it was pizza, but I got cleaner on my cheats as the contest approached. They did help kickstart the metabolism up until I got well and truly stuck, but like I said, that was a bad sticking point. Basically I panicked and dieted too hard and too fast, and ramped up my cardio fast too. Incremental would have been better.

For this contest, I only do 2 low carb days per week, usually at 100 or 125. The other days, I take in 175 to 200. Calories averaging around 2100 to 2200 as opposed to the 1700 I was at by the end of March. Fats are about teh same though. Cheats this time around are healthier. Usually I have a steak, 2 big sweet potatoes, couple of rolls, salad, etc. Or, I'll have whole weat pasta with meat sauce.

The most weight loss per week I saw (apart from the post contest binge water drop episode) was 2# per week. I've averaged 1-2# per week since I started all this, so I *think* that's OK.

 

[dg806]

8 out of 11 is not bad for first time novice. You stood on the stage. That in itself makes you a winner. Hold your head high!

 

[deadsheepmill]

8 out of 11 is not bad for first time novice. You stood on the stage. That in itself makes you a winner. Hold your head high!

Thanks, man!

I'm looking to improve in June. I can't control who I compete against and what they look like, but I can improve from one show to the next.

This is me - needing more dieting.

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

 

[dg806]

You are looking awesome brother! Have you thought about getting a reputible trainer/and or diet prep coach for your shows? It may help you understand what it takes to get in contest shape.

 

[dg806]

How long has it been since you came off all ph's? This is proably why your test level is low.

 

[deadsheepmill]

How long has it been since you came off all ph's? This is proably why your test level is low.

I took my last Halocore on the day of the show. I stopped the Reversitol early last week. I only ran 3 weeks of it rather than 4. Not sure it would have made much difference since 50mg of Halo isn’t huge. I did 3 capsules of Reversitol during week one, 2 during week 2 and 1 during week 1, timing the does per the instructions.
It may be a combination of things causing low test levels. Dieting, being overtrainied from the last show, the PH, not enough red meat and fat, etc. It may be that my levels were low to start and they have returned to that level. Since I goofed and didn’t determine my baseline, I’ll likely never know the answer to that.

 

[deadsheepmill]

You are looking awesome brother! Have you thought about getting a reputible trainer/and or diet prep coach for your shows? It may help you understand what it takes to get in contest shape.

The guy that owns our gym helped a bunch of us out with contest prep. We had a heavyweight get 3rd in the novive (1 point from 2nd), a middleweight novice gert 2nd (1 point from being 1st, and he was SHREDDED), a couple of guys in the open classes, and a couple of figure competitors.
He gave me good guidance and advice, and had I heeded it like he said, I probably woul d have had better results. I panicked and crashed. He helped me fix that a little by telling me to increase my food and carb intake for several days to get the metabolism going again. It worked a little, but I think I was so overtrained and underfed, that I needed more recovery time. Unfortunately I didn’t have it.
I’ve learned since then. I’ll learn from the prep for the June show too.